On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:10:43 -0600, Phil brought
forth from the murky depths:

Operate on people's fears, expand one's power base, throw money by the ton at a
problem that is ill-defined, and there are still immense holes in our security
"blanket."

You don't think our fears are warrented? Terrorism by definition is illdefined.
So do you advocate we don't try to avoid further 9-11's?

Hell no. First, we cannot be fully protected from terrorism
because it is MUCH more often the result of someone who
lives here. Any single person could cause a horrible disaster
and no matter how many police and feds we throw at a problem
like that, you cannot protect against it and we should stop
trying. Yes, tracking down potential terrorists is a worthy
goal, but nothing they have done has made one bit of difference.
I carried a 9" sharpened pencil (in plain view in my shirt
pocket) right through 4 airport checkpoints and wasn't ever
questioned about it. A college kid planted fake bombs, a Sudanese
man carried on bullets, and I'm sure lots of other things have
made it onto planes since we wasted all that money on nothing.

Sure, the sniffers are probably not a bad idea, but physically
checking every 50th passenger means 49 could smuggle something
non-detectable onboard. Patrolling only 80% of the country's
borders leaves gaping holes. How else do illegal aliens get in?
Plenty of ways.

My point is that all of this Patriot Act/Homeland is done for
show and for control. It has absolutely no effect on potential
terrorism. None whatsoever. The bad guys just changed plans. Many
thousands of potential terrorists of middle-eastern descent were
already in the country (due to lax personnel similar to the new
fully-trained lax personnel) before 9/11. Many thousands of
potentially postal people are getting laid off by corporations.
Many others will go crazy for other reasons. How many will turn
into terrorists? Will anything in the Acts help? No.
Christ, buy a clue, sheeple.


Terrorism by definition is illdefined.

By the Acts? Yes.


So do you advocate we don't try to avoid further 9-11's?

Correct. I feel that our open way of life is undefendable
from terrorism. We already had advisors/people in place to
help protect against it when 9/11 happened and since advice
was not heeded, it happened. Adding further layers to the
mess is just wasted money. We need to stop training the
terrorists and propping up bad governments. That will avoid
further escalation of terror.

The War on Terrorism is a freakin' reelection campaign show.

The Iraquis are in worse shape now than before.

And the USA is in more danger now than before Afghanistan and
Iraq. If we don't curb our imperialism soon, the world is going
to show us just how much they don't like it.

-
The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites

Larry Blanchard wrote:

I did say the doctors had a problem with malpractice insurance costs.
And I never mentioned insurance companies or nurses.

My dad, now retired, is an M.D. who got out of private practice and went to
work for the VA (Veterans' Administration) the last few years before he
retired because of all the hassles and malpractice rates.

In private practice he used dictation machines to optimize his time. For
the VA, they required him to write everything longhand. It had to take four
or five + times longer -- my dad is an MD with the classic handwriting.
When I was in college if I could read every third word in a letter from him
I was doing well. g

*YOUR* tax dollars at work.

-- Mark

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

Hell no. First, we cannot be fully protected from terrorism
because it is MUCH more often the result of someone who
lives here. Any single person could cause a horrible disaster
and no matter how many police and feds we throw at a problem
like that, you cannot protect against it and we should stop
trying. Yes, tracking down potential terrorists is a worthy
goal, but nothing they have done has made one bit of difference.
I carried a 9" sharpened pencil (in plain view in my shirt
pocket) right through 4 airport checkpoints and wasn't ever
questioned about it. A college kid planted fake bombs, a Sudanese
man carried on bullets, and I'm sure lots of other things have
made it onto planes since we wasted all that money on nothing.

Sure, the sniffers are probably not a bad idea, but physically
checking every 50th passenger means 49 could smuggle something
non-detectable onboard. Patrolling only 80% of the country's
borders leaves gaping holes. How else do illegal aliens get in?
Plenty of ways.

My point is that all of this Patriot Act/Homeland is done for
show and for control. It has absolutely no effect on potential
terrorism. None whatsoever. The bad guys just changed plans. Many
thousands of potential terrorists of middle-eastern descent were
already in the country (due to lax personnel similar to the new
fully-trained lax personnel) before 9/11. Many thousands of
potentially postal people are getting laid off by corporations.
Many others will go crazy for other reasons. How many will turn
into terrorists? Will anything in the Acts help? No.
Christ, buy a clue, sheeple.


Terrorism by definition is illdefined.

By the Acts? Yes.


So do you advocate we don't try to avoid further 9-11's?

Correct. I feel that our open way of life is undefendable
from terrorism. We already had advisors/people in place to
help protect against it when 9/11 happened and since advice
was not heeded, it happened. Adding further layers to the
mess is just wasted money. We need to stop training the
terrorists and propping up bad governments. That will avoid
further escalation of terror.

The War on Terrorism is a freakin' reelection campaign show.

The Iraquis are in worse shape now than before.

And the USA is in more danger now than before Afghanistan and
Iraq. If we don't curb our imperialism soon, the world is going
to show us just how much they don't like it.

-
The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites

Hey Charlie here is one we are in accord on...mjh

--




"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Mark Jerde responds:


I don't know what the answer is, but criticizing 30 year old actions
is not even a beginning.

My point was Jane didn't experience the real culture. I've been most of
the
way around the world, business & military, and it really makes me
appreciate
the U.S. of A. Appreciation of our blessings makes for better
citizenship,
at least in my case.

We're not writing of real culture appreciation as a need for citizenship.
But
if we were, it's literally impossible for anyone worth the kind of money
these
movie stars, sports stars, country music stars, crap stars and others to
appreciate any "real" culture, so there's not much point in commenting on
their
reactions, nor in listening to their opinions.

They're so ehavily insulated by money they really do think they're
special.

Charlie Self
"We're 269 days from the election, and that's several political
lifetimes."
TERRY HOLT, Bush campaign spokesman.


http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs.

The main one is behind bars . That one was responsible for killing half a
million human beings...mjh

--




"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
In article , says...



Dr's are making less than they used too, many are quitting cause they
are fed
up. Nurses don't make anything. Insurance companies don't seem to be
a good
investment on wall street, neither do health care providers. Who are
these
money grubbers?

Noticed drug company profits lately? Noticed that Bush's drug benefit
specifically forbids dickering with the drug companies for lower drug
prices?

I did say the doctors had a problem with malpractice insurance costs.
And I never mentioned insurance companies or nurses.

But I forgot to complain about the ambulance chasers :-).

But when my dentist charges more per hour than my doctor, and has most of
the work done by a dental assistant, I think that's outrageous.

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

Mark Jerde responds:

My dad, now retired, is an M.D. who got out of private practice and went to
work for the VA (Veterans' Administration) the last few years before he
retired because of all the hassles and malpractice rates.

In private practice he used dictation machines to optimize his time. For
the VA, they required him to write everything longhand. It had to take four
or five + times longer -- my dad is an MD with the classic handwriting.
When I was in college if I could read every third word in a letter from him
I was doing well. g

*YOUR* tax dollars at work.

They have to type it into a computer now. For some, handwriting would be
faster, I think, but it does seem to work well at keeping neat, accurate
records in smaller spaces. Except they print out about 73 copies of everything.

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

WD writes:

Didn't John Ashcroft while he was the Senator from Missouri tried to
extend the Patent for Schering-Plough, Claritin?

I guess 20 years of gouging plus countless extensions cannot satisfy
the drugs' companies appetite.

Dunno about Ashcroft. But when the time is up, it's up. No extensions. The drug
then becomes generic, much to the dismay of the companies.

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

WD responds:


On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:37:37 -0600, Phil wrote:

Actually it takes most drugs 7 years to get to market. Maybe the government
felt guilty.

Therefore is quite all right to gouge consumers?

Aw, hell yes. Why do you think the politicians let us live?

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Just testing a posting problem.

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

In article slhVb.1806$QA2.11750@attbi_s52, says...
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs.

The main one is behind bars . That one was responsible for killing half a
million human beings...mjh

Funny Bush never emphasized that before the war :-).

You're a lost cause, Mike. When you can't admit you're wrong, twist the
facts into something else. I won't respond to you any more, it's a waste
of time.

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

Actually it takes most drugs 7 years to get to market. Maybe the government
felt guilty.

Therefore is quite all right to gouge consumers?

Ya know, nobody is making you buy their drugs. You can accept whatever the
"treatment" was prior to the drug finally getting past the FDA and to the
market. A goodly number of folks posting and reading this newsgroup are only
still here because of those *******s at the big bad nasty mean ol' drug
companies.

Dave Hall

We have cable...not a choice in WV. Cable or no TV (or the WV
State Bird: big assed old 8' dish).

Charlie I happen to know for a fact that you can get at least 3 stations,
probably more by now, with a standard old arial in Parkersburg. TV is still
broadcast you know. You just can't get all the crap spewed forth on cable and
satalite. You may or may not be able to get a PBS station. You still see a few
of those old antennas driving around town.

Dave Hall

Therefore is quite all right to gouge consumers?

Want better prices? Tort Reform

$26.4 BILLION in R&D estimated for 2004. An average of $500 Million to
develop a medical drug.

Where exactly to people expect these companies to get a return on there
money?

In 2003, 35 new medicines were introduced and there was an estimated $33.2
BILLION spent in research and development.

In addition to R&D, they (along with doctors, hospitals, and insurance
companies) have to pay for frivolous law suits.

a.. The American tort liability system is the most expensive in the world,
with total costs more than double the average of other industrialized
nations. A 2003 study conducted by Tillinghast-Towers Perrin founds that the
U.S. tort system cost $205 billion in 2001, which translates to $721 per
U.S. Citizen. (Who Pays for Tort Liability Claims? An economic analysis of
the U.S. tort liability system, Council of Economic Advisors, April, 2002;
U.S. Tort Costs: 2002 Update, Tillinghast-Towers Perrin, February 2003)

b.. Hospitals, nursing homes, and health insurers have seen their costs
escalate as a result of lawsuit abuse. According to one recent study,
approximately $50 billion per year is spent on defensive medicine - tests,
procedures, and paperwork practiced solely for litigation avoidance. ("Do
Doctors Practice Defensive Medicine?" Quarterly Journal of Economics, 1996)

c.. A recent report in the Quarterly Journal of Economics estimates that
limiting unreasonable jury awards could cut healthcare costs by 5-9%, which
would save $70-126 billion in healthcare costs per year. Saving this money
would lower the cost of healthcare coverage and permit an additional 2.4 -
4.3 million Americans to obtain medical insurance. ("Do Doctors Practice
Defensive Medicine?" Quarterly Journal of Economics, 1996, cited in
Addressing the New Healthcare Crisis: Reforming the Medical Litigation
System to Improve the Quality of Healthcare, U.S. Department of Health and
Human Services, March 3, 2003 and Confronting the New Health Care Crisis:
Improving Health Care Quality and Lowering Costs By Fixing Our Medical
Liability System, July 24, 2002.)

The ultimate in extorsion. "Sure, we charge way to much for this but pay it
or die".

"David Hall" wrote in message
news:20040207225904.17156.00001652@mb-

Ya know, nobody is making you buy their drugs. You can accept whatever the
"treatment" was prior to the drug finally getting past the FDA and to the
market. A goodly number of folks posting and reading this newsgroup are
only
still here because of those *******s at the big bad nasty mean ol' drug
companies.

Dave Hall

What exactly am supposed to admit to, that there are no WMD . Everyone
"knew" he had them even the French Germans and Russians. Presumably you knew
otherwise. Chemical weapons, he has used at least 6 or seven times.

If you had informed everyone that you were aware there were none then the I
am sure the military would have been very pleased ,after all they would not
have to wear those chemical suits in 120 degree heat....mjh

--




"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
In article slhVb.1806$QA2.11750@attbi_s52, says...
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs.

The main one is behind bars . That one was responsible for killing half
a
million human beings...mjh

Funny Bush never emphasized that before the war :-).

You're a lost cause, Mike. When you can't admit you're wrong, twist the
facts into something else. I won't respond to you any more, it's a waste
of time.

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

There are many African countries and they don't all have the problems you
hear of in the news though they are all from poor to dirt poor. In any case,
it was simply an example. Think of any third world country you care to. It
doesn't have to be just one.

"Lazarus Long" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:54:17 -0800, "CW"
wrote:

Apparently, it wasn't to hard to figure out. You did it.

Yeah, but I've got doubts about Africa becoming another China.
They've got a serious problem with an illness killing many of the
people that would do the work along with a lot of individual nations,
not one large one that sets policy.


"Lazarus Long" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:09:18 -0800, "CW"
wrote:

Yes, I do. Two things that come to my mind immediately. (1) I will not
live
long enough to see China in Japans place. (3) By that time, they will
figure
out how to industrialize Africa. A lot of that country would love to
make
a
dollar a day.


You mean "continent", not country.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:17:38 +0000, Larry Jaques wrote:


I don't think anyone in the Rep/Dem lineup so far can/will.
I hope someone comes along who looks like he can at least
START fixing things, beginning with a smaller gov't who does
more with less. Pork and hand-outs have to stop and the
deficit has to be paid off.

Awright! By paying off the debt, we'll hafta get rid of all those nasty
savings bonds, and especially all those trust funds that are currently
loaded with debt. And that means we'll hafta privatize Social
Security. I'm all for it.

-Doug

Dave Hall responds:

Ya know, nobody is making you buy their drugs. You can accept whatever the
"treatment" was prior to the drug finally getting past the FDA and to the
market. A goodly number of folks posting and reading this newsgroup are only
still here because of those *******s at the big bad nasty mean ol' drug
companies.

That has to be the most specious bull**** I've heard in the past year.

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Bill writes:

$26.4 BILLION in R&D estimated for 2004. An average of $500 Million to
develop a medical drug.

Where exactly to people expect these companies to get a return on there
money?

In 2003, 35 new medicines were introduced and there was an estimated $33.2
BILLION spent in research and development.

Income from those deelopments, now and projected?

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Dave Hall writes:

Charlie I happen to know for a fact that you can get at least 3 stations,
probably more by now, with a standard old arial in Parkersburg. TV is still
broadcast you know. You just can't get all the crap spewed forth on cable and
satalite. You may or may not be able to get a PBS station. You still see a
few
of those old antennas driving around town.

Yeah, but the aerial gives rotten reception. And you can't class P'burg as
representative of the mountainous areas of WV, can you? This place isn't
compeltely flat, but it is more like Ohio than WV.

The ONLY local channel I know of is WTAP.

Dunno what crap is spewed forth on cable or satellite--History Channel?

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Doug Winterburn responds:

I don't think anyone in the Rep/Dem lineup so far can/will.
I hope someone comes along who looks like he can at least
START fixing things, beginning with a smaller gov't who does
more with less. Pork and hand-outs have to stop and the
deficit has to be paid off.

Awright! By paying off the debt, we'll hafta get rid of all those nasty
savings bonds, and especially all those trust funds that are currently
loaded with debt. And that means we'll hafta privatize Social
Security. I'm all for it.


SS is laoded with debt because the money was used in the general fund to pay
for various governmental and public excesses.

As far as losing savings bond if the deficity is paid off, I kind of doubt
that's a major element in the deficity.

I think someone should hire one of us to check the lists of pork, though. There
are things on that list that are just amazing, from growing rain forests in
Illinois (may be the wrong state, but the right area), to studying Brazilian
tree frogs.

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 08:57:49 +0000, Charlie Self wrote:



SS is laoded with debt because the money was used in the general fund to pay
for various governmental and public excesses.

What most don't realize is that this is intentional by all the proponents
of the "lock box" concept. The lock box only means that when the excess
SS funds are collected and spent, an IOU must be placed in the lock box
so that future generations will have to be taxed to pay them off with
interest. This debt is all that is contained in the SS trust fund and the
other 40 something trust funds, and the amount is staggering.

As far as losing savings bond if the deficity is paid off, I kind of
doubt that's a major element in the deficity.

Well, only 55 million individuals own them accounting for $187 billion in
government debt. But there is much more invested in mutual/bond funds in
the form of T bills/etc. As Everett Dirksen used to say, "a billion here
and a billion there and pretty soon you're talking about some real money".

I think someone should hire one of us to check the lists of pork,
though. There are things on that list that are just amazing, from
growing rain forests in Illinois (may be the wrong state, but the right
area), to studying Brazilian tree frogs.


And the king of pork I believe is a senator from your state that keeps
getting re-elected and re-elected.

-Doug

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 06:20:24 GMT, Doug Winterburn
brought forth from the murky depths:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:17:38 +0000, Larry Jaques wrote:


I don't think anyone in the Rep/Dem lineup so far can/will.
I hope someone comes along who looks like he can at least
START fixing things, beginning with a smaller gov't who does
more with less. Pork and hand-outs have to stop and the
deficit has to be paid off.

Awright! By paying off the debt, we'll hafta get rid of all those nasty
savings bonds, and especially all those trust funds that are currently
loaded with debt. And that means we'll hafta privatize Social
Security. I'm all for it.

Ditto. Dy'think these programs could be made cheaper by
teaching the docs to practice preventive medicine? To use
herbs where possible and drugs only where necessary (and
never to quell side-effects of the other drugs given)?

We had mandatory PE in school. Why not make PE mandatory
in "rest" homes? The last study I saw on seniors was an
attempt to strengthen them. Using small weights on a several
day-a-week schedule, after 5 weeks the seniors could comfortably
lift an average of 5 times as much weight and could get up
and down much more easily. They felt better about themselves
and got out of their rooms more often. With volunteers in each
home, how much could a program DO for people and how much would
it cost? The answers are "A LOT" and "Not much." respectively.
The study didn't cover meds necessary before and after, but I'll
bet good money that the meds afterwards were considerably reduced.
Healthier happier people seek fewer pills. (I can verify that from
life experience, too.)

I'll bet that companies who required their employees to do 15
minutes of CV exercise at work before they started would see a
decrease in medical leave, an increase in quality and output,
and a happier group of workers, too.

-
The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites

On 08 Feb 2004 08:57:49 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
brought forth from the murky depths:

SS is laoded with debt because the money was used in the general fund to pay
for various governmental and public excesses.

How could we ever allow them to do things like this?
(After we, the people, had been told they were doing so.)


I think someone should hire one of us to check the lists of pork, though. There
are things on that list that are just amazing, from growing rain forests in
Illinois (may be the wrong state, but the right area), to studying Brazilian
tree frogs.

Go here, read the info, and download the Pig Books.
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?...rkbarrelreport

Guaranteed nausea c/o Your Government.

-
The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites

Doug Winterburn writes:

And the king of pork I believe is a senator from your state that keeps
getting re-elected and re-elected.

This ain't my state, I never voted for him, never will, and I'll be out of here
as soon as someone buys this house.

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Dave Hall responds:

Ya know, nobody is making you buy their drugs. You can accept whatever the
"treatment" was prior to the drug finally getting past the FDA and to the
market. A goodly number of folks posting and reading this newsgroup are only
still here because of those *******s at the big bad nasty mean ol' drug
companies.

That has to be the most specious bull**** I've heard in the past year.

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark
Twain

Don't get out often?

Dave Hall

Charlie Self wrote:

Bill Cosby 2004!

Jesus. Don't we have enough arrogance in DC already?

Come on now. Chocolate cake for breakfast, Jell-O pudding pops for
everyone... What could be better?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Yeah, but the aerial gives rotten reception. And you can't class P'burg as
representative of the mountainous areas of WV, can you? This place isn't
compeltely flat, but it is more like Ohio than WV.

The ONLY local channel I know of is WTAP.

Dunno what crap is spewed forth on cable or satellite--History Channel?

Charlie Self

If I recall correctly you should get WSAZ (Charleston) and a station from
Columbus. Marietta used to have a station too.

As to the rest of WV, I was only talking Parkersburg as that is the only town
(or area) in WV where I have ever used an aerial. My wife grew up in a "holler"
near Buchannon and could get two channels. Parkersburg is in the Ohio Valley
and is quite flat (as far as us mountaineers are concerned).

As to crap on cable, the are some good channels like the History Channel,
Discovery, etc. but there are mostly glorious things like the Game Show
Channel, 457 different ESPNs , QVC and the Home Shopping Network, etc. etc.
etc. Here in Pittsburgh with the Basic cable package I get about 65 channels.
On the TV that I watch I have blocked out all but maybe 8 or 10 'cause channel
surfing through the rest is tiresome. Of those 8 or 10 at least 3 are just for
when the grandkids watching with me. BTW I am not one of the anti-TV guys. I
grew up with it and I watch far too much of it, but if the wife & kids (and
grandkids) would let me, I would simply have an aerial (along with the VCR and
DVD)

Dave Hall

The Japanese do this.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message I'll bet
that companies who required their employees to do 15
minutes of CV exercise at work before they started would see a
decrease in medical leave, an increase in quality and output,
and a happier group of workers, too.

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:04:34 +0000, Larry Jaques wrote:


Ditto. Dy'think these programs could be made cheaper by
teaching the docs to practice preventive medicine? To use
herbs where possible and drugs only where necessary (and
never to quell side-effects of the other drugs given)?

We had mandatory PE in school. Why not make PE mandatory
in "rest" homes? The last study I saw on seniors was an
attempt to strengthen them. Using small weights on a several
day-a-week schedule, after 5 weeks the seniors could comfortably
lift an average of 5 times as much weight and could get up
and down much more easily. They felt better about themselves
and got out of their rooms more often. With volunteers in each
home, how much could a program DO for people and how much would
it cost? The answers are "A LOT" and "Not much." respectively.
The study didn't cover meds necessary before and after, but I'll
bet good money that the meds afterwards were considerably reduced.
Healthier happier people seek fewer pills. (I can verify that from
life experience, too.)

I'll bet that companies who required their employees to do 15
minutes of CV exercise at work before they started would see a
decrease in medical leave, an increase in quality and output,
and a happier group of workers, too.

I'm not sure this would reduce any demands on SS, cause the faster we
croak off, the less demands we'll make. However for Medicare, medicaid
and the like, it would definitely help. Know of a recent case of a non CV
fit elderly person going to emergency cause of a sensation in the chest.
The local guys not wanting or being able to handle it call in the medivac
copter and haul this individual to the big city - a 20 minute ride, rather
than use an ambulance - a 45 minute ride. Yeah, 25 minutes mighta made a
difference, but since the symptoms had been going on for 6 months, I doubt
it. The response of the individual involved - "sure glad medicare covers
this". The rehab after the baloon job is CV, but in the meantime, I'd
like to know the difference in tax bux for the ride.

-Doug

And the king of pork I believe is a senator from your state that keeps
getting re-elected and re-elected.

-Doug

\Sure, Byrd is no piker when it comes to gettin' pork for WV, but I am not
aware of any major weapons plants or large military bases there and that is
where the real pork is spent. Bob got a finger print center in Clarksburg and
the Bureau of Public Debt (yahoo!!!) in Parkersburg. But if you add in defense
spending, WV doesn't even make the top 20 in per capita federal spending or in
the net per capita federal spending (per capita federal spending less per
capita federal revenues). So the old KKK Grand Klegal doesn't do as well as
folks like to make it look. Good for the campaign trail though - that and a
little fiddle playin'.

Dave Hall

In article , "Bill"
says...
$26.4 BILLION in R&D estimated for 2004. An average of $500 Million to
develop a medical drug.

A lot of that was spent on changing a competitors drug just enough to get
around the patents. And "spinning" studies to show the "new" drug was
better.


In addition to R&D, they (along with doctors, hospitals, and insurance
companies) have to pay for frivolous law suits.

Now that I agree with. I'm afraid though that "tort reform" is just code
for limiting even justified lawsuits in the name of profits. I wish I
had an answer, but I don't.

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

Dave Hall writes:

As to crap on cable, the are some good channels like the History Channel,
Discovery, etc. but there are mostly glorious things like the Game Show
Channel, 457 different ESPNs , QVC and the Home Shopping Network, etc. etc.
etc. Here in Pittsburgh with the Basic cable package I get about 65 channels.
On the TV that I watch I have blocked out all but maybe 8 or 10 'cause
channel
surfing through the rest is tiresome.

Heh. I think we get about 10 or 11 on the basic cable here, including something
like 3 that do nothing but attempt to sell ****, and I used the word advisedly,
all the time. Not too muuch trouble scanning through those.

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Doug Winterburn writes:
Know of a recent case of a non CV
fit elderly person going to emergency cause of a sensation in the chest.
The local guys not wanting or being able to handle it call in the medivac
copter and haul this individual to the big city - a 20 minute ride, rather
than use an ambulance - a 45 minute ride. Yeah, 25 minutes mighta made a
difference, but since the symptoms had been going on for 6 months, I doubt
it. The response of the individual involved - "sure glad medicare covers
this". The rehab after the baloon job is CV, but in the meantime, I'd
like to know the difference in tax bux for the ride.

Ah well. A few years ago, I had to call the rescue squad for chest pains. They
get there, all set to take me into the tiny hospital in town. I insisted on
going to VA. One guy got so ****ed he left. I got to VA, it turned out to be
pancreatitis from the Atkins diet (too much fat) or from drinking. I hadn't had
a drink in 15 years.

Basic rationale: I'd just got finished paying almost $9000 to a GD surgeon and
opeprating room bill (anyone who thinks $4500 for 1-1/2 hours of outpatient
surgical room is reasonable, raise your hand--then go have your head examined)
from the parent hospital for a botched knee surgery. I wanted no more, nuttin,
and the VA was as close as anywhere else. Guy was ****ed cause he was afraid
I'd die on the way. I told him I'd rather die than pay those *******s another
dime. I was not kidding. Then or now.


Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

gabriel wrote:

Phil wrote:

4. Now we want cheap prescription drugs and healthcare. Guess who
pays, companies, you and I in the form of taxes, and those who buy our
products. Nothing from the government is free, it's our tax money!

Now, if the government would _shorten_ drug patent length to encourage
generic medicines and allow foreign dugs to be imported you would have a
point.

The government, though, is taking the side of the big business (drug
companies) and so that's what's really pushing the costs of health care
up. This has nothing to do with taxes.

If that's true, just buy stock in the drug companies.

TeamCasa writes:

We all want profit in one fashion or another. People leave the house to
work at a job for the money. To think otherwise is the height of naiveté.
Sure some people love what they do, some are wealthy enough not to be
forced, however, most decide to work to support themselves and their
families.


Uh, yeah. WTF does that have to do with SUVs and waste?

As far as profit goes, I've mentioned this befo except for one abortive and
short period, I've owned my own business for way over 30 years.


Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html

Charlie Self wrote:

As far as profit goes, I've mentioned this befo except for one
abortive and short period, I've owned my own business for way over 30
years.

100 words or fewer: what's the essence, the secret?

-- Mark

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:04:55 +0000, Charlie Self wrote:


Ah well. A few years ago, I had to call the rescue squad for chest pains. They
get there, all set to take me into the tiny hospital in town. I insisted on
going to VA. One guy got so ****ed he left. I got to VA, it turned out to be
pancreatitis from the Atkins diet (too much fat) or from drinking. I hadn't had
a drink in 15 years.

Basic rationale: I'd just got finished paying almost $9000 to a GD surgeon and
opeprating room bill (anyone who thinks $4500 for 1-1/2 hours of outpatient
surgical room is reasonable, raise your hand--then go have your head examined)
from the parent hospital for a botched knee surgery. I wanted no more, nuttin,
and the VA was as close as anywhere else. Guy was ****ed cause he was afraid
I'd die on the way. I told him I'd rather die than pay those *******s another
dime. I was not kidding. Then or now.

The other thing about the case I mentioned was this:

The doc prescribed medication for the patient which was a $7 pill three
times a day. The patient told the doc they couldn't afford it, so the doc
says "take a baby aspirin once a day and come in 3 times a week for CV
therapy (read treadmill/stationary bike/etc.). Medicare _will_ pay for
this. Meanwhile, the patients stationary bike at home sits unused.

sigh

-Doug

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/7900006.htm



Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Mark Jerde asks:


As far as profit goes, I've mentioned this befo except for one
abortive and short period, I've owned my own business for way over 30
years.

100 words or fewer: what's the essence, the secret?


80 hours a week.

Charlie Self
"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold." Mark Twain

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/m.../business.html