When AT&T dropped NG's a few months ago without any notice I switched to
Giganews. They have been great so far. $7 or $8 per month.

cm


"mapdude" wrote in message
. ..
Just got the notice today.

So, what are the alternatives to get the newsgroups?

I would check their terms of service.

Verizon's notice specifically stated that accessing the dropped groups using
"other" means over Verizon's service was against their terms of service.

After speaking with a number of network fold I ignored them and signed up
for a news servcie.

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been acccessing
seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model train sites and a
couple others.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

I have concluded that:

1) They can monitor accessing banned groups

2) They know where I live

and

3) Will keep doing so until I see what they threaten to do.

I am hoping enough people get mad enough to petition for a class action for
denial of service.

I can't believe the news services are not staring to worry about this.






"cm" wrote in message
...
When AT&T dropped NG's a few months ago without any notice I switched to
Giganews. They have been great so far. $7 or $8 per month.

cm


"mapdude" wrote in message
. ..
Just got the notice today.

So, what are the alternatives to get the newsgroups?

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:47:28 -0500, mapdude
wrote:

Just got the notice today.

So, what are the alternatives to get the newsgroups?

There are plenty of both free, and low cost news servers.

There are some pretty good plans for about $3 a month, like
newsguy.com

If you want to download porno movies, you'll need a more expensive
plan with greater bandwidth allowances. For text groups like this, you
only need the minimum sized plans.

"mapdude" wrote in message
. ..
Just got the notice today.

So, what are the alternatives to get the newsgroups?


For a one time $3.95 sign-up fee www.teranews.com is OK, but some of my
posts never seem to make it to the group.

Last night I signed up for a free www.motzarella.org account and it works
better posting, but they don't carry ABPW, at least on the server I'm using.
They have two others I've not tried yet. .

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news

"mapdude" wrote in message
. ..
Just got the notice today.

So, what are the alternatives to get the newsgroups?


For a one time $3.95 sign-up fee www.teranews.com is OK, but some of my
posts never seem to make it to the group.

Last night I signed up for a free www.motzarella.org account and it works
better posting, but they don't carry ABPW, at least on the server I'm
using. They have two others I've not tried yet. .

I signed up with Astraweb. It was just ten bucks and at my current rate of
use should last me for years. And I get binaries too. They have other
plans if you are a heavy user.

The only problem I had was that I had not set up the account to use a
password. Once I did that, I was in and it works just fine.

Comcast contacted me today and said that giganews has a special offer for
me. I was not interested.

"Jay R" wrote in message
...
I would check their terms of service.

Verizon's notice specifically stated that accessing the dropped groups
using "other" means over Verizon's service was against their terms of
service.

After speaking with a number of network fold I ignored them and signed up
for a news servcie.

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been
acccessing seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model train
sites and a couple others.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

I have concluded that:

1) They can monitor accessing banned groups

2) They know where I live

and

3) Will keep doing so until I see what they threaten to do.

I am hoping enough people get mad enough to petition for a class action
for denial of service.

I can't believe the news services are not staring to worry about this.


Do they have a local office? I would just show up with some picket sign
outside their local office. I would call the local media.

You have to have the right pitch. The model train thing is just perfect.
Tell the media that verizon hates model trains and they are persecuting you.
That will be hard to explain away.

Jay R wrote:
I would check their terms of service.

Verizon's notice specifically stated that accessing the dropped
groups using "other" means over Verizon's service was against their
terms of service.

After speaking with a number of network fold I ignored them and
signed up for a news servcie.

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been
acccessing seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model
train sites and a couple others.

I have a stupid question. Did you have your newsreader set up to
access these groups from verizon's servers? If so, after they dropped
the binary groups, did you unsubscribe from those groups? If not, if
you just left them and added groups on your new server, then they may
be getting attempts from your newsreader to access the discontinued
groups on their server, which would be flagged in their logs.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

I have concluded that:

1) They can monitor accessing banned groups

2) They know where I live

and

3) Will keep doing so until I see what they threaten to do.

I am hoping enough people get mad enough to petition for a class
action for denial of service.

I can't believe the news services are not staring to worry about
this.






"cm" wrote in message
...
When AT&T dropped NG's a few months ago without any notice I
switched to Giganews. They have been great so far. $7 or $8 per
month.

cm


"mapdude" wrote in message
. ..
Just got the notice today.

So, what are the alternatives to get the newsgroups?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Jay R" wrote

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been
acccessing
seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model train sites and a
couple others.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

I have concluded that:

1) They can monitor accessing banned groups

2) They know where I live

and

3) Will keep doing so until I see what they threaten to do.

I am hoping enough people get mad enough to petition for a class action
for
denial of service.

I can't believe the news services are not staring to worry about this.

As I have said countless times ... "censorship", pure and simple ... and
your experience above is chilling.

Maybe the sheep will finally look up, eh?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/18/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Jay R" wrote in message
...
I would check their terms of service.

Verizon's notice specifically stated that accessing the dropped groups
using "other" means over Verizon's service was against their terms of
service.

After speaking with a number of network fold I ignored them and signed up
for a news servcie.

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been
acccessing seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model train
sites and a couple others.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

I have concluded that:

1) They can monitor accessing banned groups

2) They know where I live

and

3) Will keep doing so until I see what they threaten to do.

I am hoping enough people get mad enough to petition for a class action
for denial of service.

I can't believe the news services are not staring to worry about this.


Do they have a local office? I would just show up with some picket sign
outside their local office. I would call the local media.

You have to have the right pitch. The model train thing is just perfect.
Tell the media that verizon hates model trains and they are persecuting you.
That will be hard to explain away.



I believe there is more important things in the newsgroups than model
trains. What about the disease specific newsgroups; and other self help
and support groups that will no longer be available to the people
depending on those groups.

I have over 20 newsgroups that I check at least once a day, they are the
only place you can get quick good information. There is nothing on the
web that come close to the information you can get in the genealogy
newsgroups. I miss the binary for woodworking pictures.

There are over 30 thousand newsgroup, and only a small percentage that
has questionable material. (unless you count the flamers who seem to be
on most groups ;-) ) As usual the majority is punished for the
actions of a few.

I have an idea, since congress is looking for something to do instead of
facing the issues maybe we can get a law past requiring the SIP to
carry the newsgroups.

For a one time $3.95 sign-up fee www.teranews.com is OK, but some of my
posts never seem to make it to the group.

That was my experience as well... good for reading, maddeningly spotty for
posting.

Last night I signed up for a free www.motzarella.org account and it works
better posting, but they don't carry ABPW, at least on the server I'm
using. They have two others I've not tried yet. .

I have opted to go this these guys:

http://www.usenet-news.net/

Their pricing model is per-gigabyte downloaded rather than per month. IMO,
cheaper than even the cheapest monthly subscription.
I have been using them for about a month and I have been very pleased so
far. $5 for 10GB of downloads.

10GB should go a long way for mostly test and modest binaries usage.

YMMV

Steve

Keith nuttle wrote:
Lee Michaels wrote:
"Jay R" wrote in message
...
I would check their terms of service.

Verizon's notice specifically stated that accessing the dropped
groups using "other" means over Verizon's service was against
their
terms of service.

After speaking with a number of network fold I ignored them and
signed up for a news servcie.

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been
acccessing seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model
train sites and a couple others.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

I have concluded that:

1) They can monitor accessing banned groups

2) They know where I live

and

3) Will keep doing so until I see what they threaten to do.

I am hoping enough people get mad enough to petition for a class
action for denial of service.

I can't believe the news services are not staring to worry about
this.


Do they have a local office? I would just show up with some picket
sign outside their local office. I would call the local media.

You have to have the right pitch. The model train thing is just
perfect. Tell the media that verizon hates model trains and they
are
persecuting you. That will be hard to explain away.



I believe there is more important things in the newsgroups than
model
trains. What about the disease specific newsgroups; and other self
help and support groups that will no longer be available to the
people
depending on those groups.

Which makes Comcast look more ludicrous, banning discussion of disease
or bannign discussion of model trains?

I have over 20 newsgroups that I check at least once a day, they are
the only place you can get quick good information. There is nothing
on the web that come close to the information you can get in the
genealogy newsgroups. I miss the binary for woodworking pictures.

There are over 30 thousand newsgroup, and only a small percentage
that
has questionable material. (unless you count the flamers who seem to
be on most groups ;-) ) As usual the majority is punished for
the
actions of a few.

I have an idea, since congress is looking for something to do
instead
of facing the issues maybe we can get a law past requiring the SIP
to carry the newsgroups.

So you're saying that ISPs that have _never_ had news servers would be
required to install them?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 21:34:19 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

I've been using APN for over a year and am happy with it..
$3 a month and most folks are good to go with all the groups that I subscribe
to.. (I use the $6 a month plan, since I download a lot of music)

http://www.forteinc.com/apn/index.php




"mapdude" wrote in message
...
Just got the notice today.

So, what are the alternatives to get the newsgroups?


For a one time $3.95 sign-up fee www.teranews.com is OK, but some of my
posts never seem to make it to the group.

Last night I signed up for a free www.motzarella.org account and it works
better posting, but they don't carry ABPW, at least on the server I'm using.
They have two others I've not tried yet. .



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"Jay R" wrote

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been
acccessing
seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model train sites
and a
couple others.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

I have concluded that:

1) They can monitor accessing banned groups

2) They know where I live

and

3) Will keep doing so until I see what they threaten to do.

I am hoping enough people get mad enough to petition for a class
action
for
denial of service.

I can't believe the news services are not staring to worry about
this.

As I have said countless times ... "censorship", pure and simple ...
and
your experience above is chilling.

Maybe the sheep will finally look up, eh?


It's not really about censorship, it's about $$$.

'UseNet' (where news-groups live) predates what most folks think of as
'The Internet', with it's blogs and forums, and generally lives on a
different set of servers than 'The Internet'. Even with the thousands of
news-groups out there, the number of 'Use-Net' users out there is much
lower than the number of 'Internet' users.

So a lot of ISPs are looking for an excuse to dump UseNet completely,
and eliminate the costs associated with maintaining those servers. So
along comes that NY Attorney General who finds porn on a dozen or so
news-groups and demands all of UseNet be eliminated because of it. This
gave the ISPs the excuse they've been looking for to dump UseNet, and
with a few exceptions they've been all over making it go away instead of
fighting back.like you'd expect.

It's because of $$$, not censorship.

Len

Jay R wrote:

I would check their terms of service.

Verizon's notice specifically stated that accessing the dropped groups using
"other" means over Verizon's service was against their terms of service.

After speaking with a number of network fold I ignored them and signed up
for a news servcie.

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been acccessing
seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model train sites and a
couple others.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

snip

What were you doing that violated Verizon's TOS?

The Verizon web site SPECIFICALLY says you can access non-Verizon news
groups over the Verizon network.

"If I want to access Newsgroups different from the ones you carry, what
are my options?

There are several commercial news providers that you can consider. You
may want to check out some options at
http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm. The content available, posting
policies, terms and prices will vary, so you should select the one that
is right for you. If you elect to access a non-Verizon newsgroup over
the Verizon Network, our terms of service and acceptable use policy will
still apply to your use of our Service."

http://netservices.verizon.net/porta...group_06_12_08

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:41:19 GMT, Nova
wrote:

Jay R wrote:

I would check their terms of service.

Verizon's notice specifically stated that accessing the dropped groups using
"other" means over Verizon's service was against their terms of service.

After speaking with a number of network fold I ignored them and signed up
for a news servcie.

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been acccessing
seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model train sites and a
couple others.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

snip

What were you doing that violated Verizon's TOS?

The Verizon web site SPECIFICALLY says you can access non-Verizon news
groups over the Verizon network.

"If I want to access Newsgroups different from the ones you carry, what
are my options?

There are several commercial news providers that you can consider. You
may want to check out some options at
http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm. The content available, posting
policies, terms and prices will vary, so you should select the one that
is right for you. If you elect to access a non-Verizon newsgroup over
the Verizon Network, our terms of service and acceptable use policy will
still apply to your use of our Service."

http://netservices.verizon.net/porta...group_06_12_08

Howdy,

There are several completely free Usenet servers...

I have been using aioe, and motzarella happily since
learning of the Comcast change. I also got a $60 refund from
Comcast.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

You won't get an argument out of me.

Porn was just an easy excuse.

Over the past couple of months I have been looking at the various articles
about how the carriers are reigning in the bandwidth.

There is a carrrier up in NY limiting dl to 50 gb a month, I just saw
Comcast in some areas going to 250 GB.

It sounds like a lot but when you think about the surfing, the streaming TV
and music, it burns up fast.

It will be like the old dial up days when your monthly nut was based on how
much time you wanted.

It did not matter before because they were just the delivery system but now
that they are selling content as well, they want to force people to their
products.

Like I said, it will take a while until people get mad enough to file for
class action.


"Len" wrote in message
. ..

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"Jay R" wrote

I received an email this week from Verizon noting that I had been
acccessing
seveal alt.binaries groups including ww pix, some model train sites
and a
couple others.

It reminded me that this was in violation of the terms of service.

I have concluded that:

1) They can monitor accessing banned groups

2) They know where I live

and

3) Will keep doing so until I see what they threaten to do.

I am hoping enough people get mad enough to petition for a class
action
for
denial of service.

I can't believe the news services are not staring to worry about
this.

As I have said countless times ... "censorship", pure and simple ...
and
your experience above is chilling.

Maybe the sheep will finally look up, eh?


It's not really about censorship, it's about $$$.

'UseNet' (where news-groups live) predates what most folks think of as
'The Internet', with it's blogs and forums, and generally lives on a
different set of servers than 'The Internet'. Even with the thousands of
news-groups out there, the number of 'Use-Net' users out there is much
lower than the number of 'Internet' users.

So a lot of ISPs are looking for an excuse to dump UseNet completely,
and eliminate the costs associated with maintaining those servers. So
along comes that NY Attorney General who finds porn on a dozen or so
news-groups and demands all of UseNet be eliminated because of it. This
gave the ISPs the excuse they've been looking for to dump UseNet, and
with a few exceptions they've been all over making it go away instead of
fighting back.like you'd expect.

It's because of $$$, not censorship.

Len

"Len" spouted:

It's not really about censorship, it's about $$$.

snip of already much discussed choir preaching's

It's because of $$$, not censorship.

Sorry, Bubba, but you are wrong. Money may be one of the peripheral
reasons/causes/excuses, but the net effect is still, and inarguably,
CENSORSHIP, regardless of the more than one cause (thanks, Andrew Cuomo, you
pompous, scum sucking, politician ass!)

Lack of intellectual ability to make such distinctions is one of the reasons
this country is going down and asses like Cuomo can pull the kind of crap
over the sheeple that started this sorry state of affairs.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/18/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote:

Lack of intellectual ability to make such distinctions is one of the
reasons this country is going down and asses like Cuomo can pull the
kind of crap over the sheeple that started this sorry state of
affairs.

Suffering a severe case of analitis today I see.g


Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote

"Swingman" wrote:

Lack of intellectual ability to make such distinctions is one of the
reasons this country is going down and asses like Cuomo can pull the kind
of crap over the sheeple that started this sorry state of affairs.

Suffering a severe case of analitis today I see.g

What do you expect after the yes vote for the biggest boondoggle in this
country's history today.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/18/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:

What do you expect after the yes vote for the biggest boondoggle in
this country's history today.

You best hope it works, there doesn't appear to be a 2nd shot.

Think of it as payback for almost 30 years of Reagan's "Trickle Down"
BULL ****.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
Swingman wrote:

What do you expect after the yes vote for the biggest boondoggle in this
country's history today.

You best hope it works, there doesn't appear to be a 2nd shot.

Au contraire ... I know it won't work ... this was just a drop in the
bucket. The elephant in the room, the derivatives bubble is 15 trillion, and
it ain't burst yet.

Think of it as payback for almost 30 years of Reagan's "Trickle Down" BULL
****.

But FDR would be proud, eh?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/18/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Swingman wrote:

What do you expect after the yes vote for the biggest boondoggle in
this country's history today.

You best hope it works, there doesn't appear to be a 2nd shot.

Think of it as payback for almost 30 years of Reagan's "Trickle Down"
BULL ****.

Lew


http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/easescredit.asp

Swingman wrote:

Au contraire ... I know it won't work ...

Damn, where were you when Paulson needed you?

But FDR would be proud, eh?

I'm old enough to remember a cold gray overcast April day in northern
Ohio when I sat in my 4th grade class and looked outside to see the
flag flying at half mast in the front yard of the school.

First time I had ever seen that before.

Teacher explained it was to show respect for FDR, the president, who
had just died.

That experience also impacted the way I viewed JFK's death less than
20 years later.

If you are old enough to remember FDR, then you remember people either
hated him or loved him, there was no middle ground.

The fact that you were a republican or a democrat was immaterial, this
was an up/down vote on FDR himself.

It's funny that almost 80 years later, Bush and his bunch of fruit
cakes were still trying to dismantle S/S.

Lew

"Doug Winterburn" wrote
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Swingman wrote:

What do you expect after the yes vote for the biggest boondoggle in
this country's history today.

You best hope it works, there doesn't appear to be a 2nd shot.

Think of it as payback for almost 30 years of Reagan's "Trickle Down"
BULL ****.

Lew


http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/easescredit.asp

Doug, Doug ... fer chrissakes! Don't cloud the issue with facts.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/18/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:19:34 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Swingman wrote:

What do you expect after the yes vote for the biggest boondoggle in
this country's history today.

You best hope it works, there doesn't appear to be a 2nd shot.

Think of it as payback for almost 30 years of Reagan's "Trickle Down"
BULL ****.

Lew

Think what you want, don't confuse yourself with any facts.

from the boston globe- as liberal as it gets



*
'THE PRIVATE SECTOR got us into this mess. The government has to get
us
out of it."
Discuss
COMMENTS (355)

That's Barney Frank's story, and he's sticking to it. As the
Massachusetts Democrat has explained it in recent days, the current
financial crisis is the spawn of the free market run amok, with the
political class guilty only of failing to rein the capitalists in. The
Wall Street meltdown was caused by "bad decisions that were made by
people in the private sector," Frank said; the country is in dire
straits
today "thanks to a conservative philosophy that says the market knows
best." And that philosophy goes "back to Ronald Reagan, when at his
inauguration he said, 'Government is not the answer to our problems;
government is the problem.' "

In fact, that isn't what Reagan said. His actual words we "In this
present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem;
government
is the problem." Were he president today, he would be saying much the
same thing.

Because while the mortgage crisis convulsing Wall Street has its share
of
private-sector culprits -- many of whom have been learning lately just
how pitiless the private sector’s discipline can be -- they weren't
the
ones who "got us into this mess." Barney Frank's talking points
notwithstanding, mortgage lenders didn't wake up one fine day deciding
to
junk long-held standards of creditworthiness in order to make
ill-advised
loans to unqualified borrowers. It would be closer to the truth to say
they woke up to find the government twisting their arms and demanding
that they do so - or else.

The roots of this crisis go back to the Carter administration. That
was
when government officials, egged on by left-wing activists, began
accusing mortgage lenders of racism and "redlining" because urban
blacks
were being denied mortgages at a higher rate than suburban whites.

The pressure to make more loans to minorities (read: to borrowers with
weak credit histories) became relentless. Congress passed the
Community
Reinvestment Act, empowering regulators to punish banks that failed to
"meet the credit needs" of "low-income, minority, and distressed
neighborhoods." Lenders responded by loosening their underwriting
standards and making increasingly shoddy loans. The two government-
chartered mortgage finance firms, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,
encouraged
this "subprime" lending by authorizing ever more "flexible" criteria
by
which high-risk borrowers could be qualified for home loans, and then
buying up the questionable mortgages that ensued.

All this was justified as a means of increasing homeownership among
minorities and the poor. Affirmative-action policies trumped sound
business practices. A manual issued by the Federal Reserve Bank of
Boston
advised mortgage lenders to disregard financial common sense. "Lack of
credit history should not be seen as a negative factor," the Fed's
guidelines instructed. Lenders were directed to accept welfare
payments
and unemployment benefits as "valid income sources" to qualify for a
mortgage. Failure to comply could mean a lawsuit.

As long as housing prices kept rising, the illusion that all this was
good public policy could be sustained. But it didn't take a financial
whiz to recognize that a day of reckoning would come. "What does it
mean
when Boston banks start making many more loans to minorities?" I asked
in
this space in 1995. "Most likely, that they are knowingly approving
risky
loans in order to get the feds and the activists off their backs . . .
When the coming wave of foreclosures rolls through the inner city,
which
of today's self-congratulating bankers, politicians, and regulators
plans
to take the credit?"

Frank doesn't. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco. Time and
time again, Frank insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in
good
shape. Five years ago, for example, when the Bush administration
proposed
much tighter regulation of the two companies, Frank was adamant that
"these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any
kind
of financial crisis." When the White House warned of "systemic risk
for
our financial system" unless the mortgage giants were curbed, Frank
complained that the administration was more concerned about financial
safety than about housing.

Now that the bubble has burst and the "systemic risk" is apparent to
all,
Frank blithely declares: "The private sector got us into this mess."
Well, give the congressman points for gall. Wall Street and private
lenders have plenty to answer for, but it was Washington and the
political class that derailed this train. If Frank is looking for a
culprit to blame, he can find one suspect in the nearest mirror.

Jeff Jacoby can be reached at .
© Copyright 2008 Globe Newspaper Company.
READER COMMENTS (354) Post a comment

"Lew Hodgett" wrote
Swingman wrote:

Au contraire ... I know it won't work ...

Damn, where were you when Paulson needed you?

Actually, on the the phone and e-mail to my two Senators and my
Representative, twice in one week, advising them to fire him and to vote NO
on his boondoggle.

AAMOF, I just filled out my absentee ballot this morning ... both incumbent
Senators lost my vote this week, and my Representative, who had the sense to
vote NO, got it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/18/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

THANK GOD ! Barney Frank makes it all clear now. I'm sure Chris Dodd agrees
with him. he he he

cm


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:19:34 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Swingman wrote:

What do you expect after the yes vote for the biggest boondoggle in
this country's history today.

You best hope it works, there doesn't appear to be a 2nd shot.

Think of it as payback for almost 30 years of Reagan's "Trickle Down"
BULL ****.

Lew

Think what you want, don't confuse yourself with any facts.

from the boston globe- as liberal as it gets



*
'THE PRIVATE SECTOR got us into this mess. The government has to get
us
out of it."
Discuss
COMMENTS (355)

That's Barney Frank's story, and he's sticking to it. As the
Massachusetts Democrat has explained it in recent days, the current
financial crisis is the spawn of the free market run amok, with the
political class guilty only of failing to rein the capitalists in. The
Wall Street meltdown was caused by "bad decisions that were made by
people in the private sector," Frank said; the country is in dire
straits
today "thanks to a conservative philosophy that says the market knows
best." And that philosophy goes "back to Ronald Reagan, when at his
inauguration he said, 'Government is not the answer to our problems;
government is the problem.' "

In fact, that isn't what Reagan said. His actual words we "In this
present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem;
government
is the problem." Were he president today, he would be saying much the
same thing.

Because while the mortgage crisis convulsing Wall Street has its share
of
private-sector culprits -- many of whom have been learning lately just
how pitiless the private sector's discipline can be -- they weren't
the
ones who "got us into this mess." Barney Frank's talking points
notwithstanding, mortgage lenders didn't wake up one fine day deciding
to
junk long-held standards of creditworthiness in order to make
ill-advised
loans to unqualified borrowers. It would be closer to the truth to say
they woke up to find the government twisting their arms and demanding
that they do so - or else.

The roots of this crisis go back to the Carter administration. That
was
when government officials, egged on by left-wing activists, began
accusing mortgage lenders of racism and "redlining" because urban
blacks
were being denied mortgages at a higher rate than suburban whites.

The pressure to make more loans to minorities (read: to borrowers with
weak credit histories) became relentless. Congress passed the
Community
Reinvestment Act, empowering regulators to punish banks that failed to
"meet the credit needs" of "low-income, minority, and distressed
neighborhoods." Lenders responded by loosening their underwriting
standards and making increasingly shoddy loans. The two government-
chartered mortgage finance firms, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,
encouraged
this "subprime" lending by authorizing ever more "flexible" criteria
by
which high-risk borrowers could be qualified for home loans, and then
buying up the questionable mortgages that ensued.

All this was justified as a means of increasing homeownership among
minorities and the poor. Affirmative-action policies trumped sound
business practices. A manual issued by the Federal Reserve Bank of
Boston
advised mortgage lenders to disregard financial common sense. "Lack of
credit history should not be seen as a negative factor," the Fed's
guidelines instructed. Lenders were directed to accept welfare
payments
and unemployment benefits as "valid income sources" to qualify for a
mortgage. Failure to comply could mean a lawsuit.

As long as housing prices kept rising, the illusion that all this was
good public policy could be sustained. But it didn't take a financial
whiz to recognize that a day of reckoning would come. "What does it
mean
when Boston banks start making many more loans to minorities?" I asked
in
this space in 1995. "Most likely, that they are knowingly approving
risky
loans in order to get the feds and the activists off their backs . . .
When the coming wave of foreclosures rolls through the inner city,
which
of today's self-congratulating bankers, politicians, and regulators
plans
to take the credit?"

Frank doesn't. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco. Time and
time again, Frank insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in
good
shape. Five years ago, for example, when the Bush administration
proposed
much tighter regulation of the two companies, Frank was adamant that
"these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any
kind
of financial crisis." When the White House warned of "systemic risk
for
our financial system" unless the mortgage giants were curbed, Frank
complained that the administration was more concerned about financial
safety than about housing.

Now that the bubble has burst and the "systemic risk" is apparent to
all,
Frank blithely declares: "The private sector got us into this mess."
Well, give the congressman points for gall. Wall Street and private
lenders have plenty to answer for, but it was Washington and the
political class that derailed this train. If Frank is looking for a
culprit to blame, he can find one suspect in the nearest mirror.

Jeff Jacoby can be reached at .
© Copyright 2008 Globe Newspaper Company.
READER COMMENTS (354) Post a comment

On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 08:03:32 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote
Swingman wrote:

Au contraire ... I know it won't work ...

Damn, where were you when Paulson needed you?

Actually, on the the phone and e-mail to my two Senators and my
Representative, twice in one week, advising them to fire him and to vote NO
on his boondoggle.

AAMOF, I just filled out my absentee ballot this morning ... both incumbent
Senators lost my vote this week, and my Representative, who had the sense to
vote NO, got it.

How does that work? We have only two senators in my state. Senators
have 6 year terms and a third of the criminals are up for election
every two years. I can only vote out one senator this year. Another
senator in two years and no one in 4 years. My congressman did not
vote for the package. One of my senators sent back a form letter that
said he could not do nothing. I did not ask that he do nothing. I
asked that they consider some other plans and do somethign other than
what they chose to do. The other senator did not have the time to
write a form letter answer to explain his choice of ignoring his
consituents. Granted they have the time to read a 400 page document
that started out as a few page piece of fluff so they know intimately
all about what I have not read.

On the radio I heard on "representative" state that their office had
over 90,000 phone calls about the issue. 85,000 against but of course
they had to vote for it.

"Jim Behning" wrote

Swingman wrote:

AAMOF, I just filled out my absentee ballot this morning ... both
incumbent
Senators lost my vote this week, and my Representative, who had the sense
to
vote NO, got it.

How does that work? We have only two senators in my state. Senators
have 6 year terms and a third of the criminals are up for election
every two years. I can only vote out one senator this year.

You're right ... there was only one prick .. errr Senator, who I voted
against on the multi-lingual, big as a horse blanket, three page ballot.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/18/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article ,
"Swingman" wrote:

"Len" spouted:

It's not really about censorship, it's about $$$.

snip of already much discussed choir preaching's

It's because of $$$, not censorship.

Sorry, Bubba, but you are wrong. Money may be one of the peripheral
reasons/causes/excuses, but the net effect is still, and inarguably,
CENSORSHIP, regardless of the more than one cause (thanks, Andrew Cuomo, you
pompous, scum sucking, politician ass!)

Lack of intellectual ability to make such distinctions is one of the reasons
this country is going down and asses like Cuomo can pull the kind of crap
over the sheeple that started this sorry state of affairs.

From where I'm sitting, it looks like those videos you see on crime-tv.
They bust a window, run in and grab and run out.

They're raiding the coffers before they are no longer able. That
includes imposing their 'morals' as they pillage.

We're talking thugs. Plain and simple. A gang mentality. I guess Prescot
Bush set the tone, eh?

The throttling of free communications via the Net fits that pattern.
Shoot out the closed circuit tv. If they can't talk about the criminals,
maybe they won't get prosecuted.

The freedom of the internet is being scuttled by those who are afraid
that it may be the method of organizing an uprising.

That administration is trying to walk away with all the loot and without
anybody having to pay for their war crimes.

Hang the *******s!!

How many major ISP control rooms have been infiltrated by government
operatives? Those who will stay behind after the election?

They're not going to go away easily, the worst is yet to come.

Swingman wrote:

Actually, on the the phone and e-mail to my two Senators and my
Representative, twice in one week, advising them to fire him and to vote NO
on his boondoggle.

AAMOF, I just filled out my absentee ballot this morning ... both incumbent
Senators lost my vote this week, and my Representative, who had the sense to
vote NO, got it.

For anyone not in the know about how their Representatives may or may
not have represented your wishes, the roll call tally can be found at:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

And if you'd like the info in text form, I'm putting together a text
page that can be found at:

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Misc/Bailout.txt

with the same (and eventually additional) info to enshrine the event for
posterity. :-|

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

In article ,
Morris Dovey wrote:

Swingman wrote:

Actually, on the the phone and e-mail to my two Senators and my
Representative, twice in one week, advising them to fire him and to vote NO
on his boondoggle.

AAMOF, I just filled out my absentee ballot this morning ... both incumbent
Senators lost my vote this week, and my Representative, who had the sense
to
vote NO, got it.

For anyone not in the know about how their Representatives may or may
not have represented your wishes, the roll call tally can be found at:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

And if you'd like the info in text form, I'm putting together a text
page that can be found at:

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Misc/Bailout.txt

with the same (and eventually additional) info to enshrine the event for
posterity. :-|

Mind boggling. They're getting raped and they are taking it.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 10:57:57 -0500, Morris Dovey
wrote:

Swingman wrote:

Actually, on the the phone and e-mail to my two Senators and my
Representative, twice in one week, advising them to fire him and to vote NO
on his boondoggle.

AAMOF, I just filled out my absentee ballot this morning ... both incumbent
Senators lost my vote this week, and my Representative, who had the sense to
vote NO, got it.

For anyone not in the know about how their Representatives may or may
not have represented your wishes, the roll call tally can be found at:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

And if you'd like the info in text form, I'm putting together a text
page that can be found at:

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Misc/Bailout.txt

with the same (and eventually additional) info to enshrine the event for
posterity. :-|

That list helps. Now I see that all my "representatives" betrayed me.
This was the only plan that could possibly work? It was the absolute
best plan they could come up with in the months of deliberation? We
couldn't have voted for the fair tax plan while we were voting for off
topic stuff?

writes:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:47:28 -0500, mapdude
wrote:
Just got the notice today.

So, what are the alternatives to get the newsgroups?

There are plenty of both free, and low cost news servers.

There are some pretty good plans for about $3 a month, like
newsguy.com

If you want to download porno movies, you'll need a more expensive
plan with greater bandwidth allowances. For text groups like this, you
only need the minimum sized plans.

Also, Altopia is at $6/month with text and unlimited binary downloads.

https://www.altopia.com/

Chris Caputo
President, Altopia Corporation

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Swingman wrote:

Actually, on the the phone and e-mail to my two Senators and my
Representative, twice in one week, advising them to fire him and to vote
NO
on his boondoggle.

AAMOF, I just filled out my absentee ballot this morning ... both
incumbent
Senators lost my vote this week, and my Representative, who had the
sense to
vote NO, got it.

For anyone not in the know about how their Representatives may or may
not have represented your wishes, the roll call tally can be found at:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

And if you'd like the info in text form, I'm putting together a text
page that can be found at:

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Misc/Bailout.txt

with the same (and eventually additional) info to enshrine the event for
posterity. :-|

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris,

Congratulations for the good work. I hope you will label each Congressman
with his/her appropriate state, party, and district.
A list of the Senators with their vote choices would be nice too.

One can't tell who the criminals are without an good, accurate program
guide.
Axel

Your computer's calendar is innaccurate. Unless you have a (wooden) time
machine, 8 October 2008 will not happen anywhere on Earth for another 3 to 4
days. A 'mapdude' should know that.

I mentioned wood. Now this posting is On Topic, eh?

Axel
(Yes. I too detest the dirtbag execs who are destroying Usenet access and
thus, degrading the entire Net.)


"mapdude" wrote in message
. ..
Just got the notice today.

So, what are the alternatives to get the newsgroups?

Axel Grease wrote:

Congratulations for the good work. I hope you will label each Congressman
with his/her appropriate state, party, and district.

It's done. (I hate typing.)

A list of the Senators with their vote choices would be nice too.

Ok - that's done too. See:

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Misc/BailoutS.txt

One can't tell who the criminals are without an good, accurate program
guide.

They aren't criminals - they're the congresscritters their constituants
elected. If you don't like the job yours did, use the info to choose
which of 'em to replace - and get involved in choosing and campaigning
for those replacements. The program guide was written over two hundred
years ago...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote:


They aren't criminals - they're the congresscritters their
constituants elected. If you don't like the job yours did, use the
info to choose which of 'em to replace - and get involved in
choosing and campaigning for those replacements. The program guide
was written over two hundred years ago...

Ah shucks, you want people to work

Thank you for your efforts.

Lew

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Axel Grease wrote:

Congratulations for the good work. I hope you will label each
Congressman
with his/her appropriate state, party, and district.

A list of the Senators with their vote choices would be nice too.

Ok - that's done too. See:

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Misc/BailoutS.txt

Thank you.

One can't tell who the criminals are without an good, accurate program
guide.

They aren't criminals - they're the congresscritters their constituants
elected. If you don't like the job yours did, use the info to choose
which of 'em to replace - and get involved in choosing and campaigning
for those replacements. The program guide was written over two hundred
years ago...

--
Morris Dovey

One of the best things about the USA is our Freedom to differ in our
opinions about the actions of elected officials... and those who are not
elected... and put voice to those differences publicly.
I have actively campaigned in some, but not all, elections. My copy of the
US Constitution remains close at hand at all times; a ready reference never
more than a few feet away.

Thank you for the itemized lists. It will be handy, come election day... if
the nation remains solvent that long.

Axel

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote:

They aren't criminals - they're the congresscritters their
constituents elected. If you don't like the job yours did, use the
info to choose which of 'em to replace - and get involved in
choosing and campaigning for those replacements. The program guide
was written over two hundred years ago...

Ah shucks, you want people to work

I haven't been able to figure out any other way. BTW, I learned last
night that 92% of Iowa's eligible voters are registered - I think people
are beginning to notice that the autopilot isn't working. :-)

Thank you for your efforts.

You're welcome. I figure it's time and effort well spent if it helps to
keep the machinery working properly.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/