I THINK I've got this figured out - but this message will confirm
that - or not. This will be my 2,608th attempt to post to
this group. Once again my fingers are crossed.

If you find a computer - and software compatible with it - that
does what you want it to do, and come to know it and the
software you've acquired for it like the back of your hand,
there's a tendency to stick with it - while the rest of the
world moves on.

I had unintentionally become a Computer System Neander
- and the world was leaving me behind - as was Apple and
Mac software. My old Mac G3 purchased in 1997 or maybe
it was '98, won't run the newest versions of my frequently
used software, nor any of the "new stuff" - like SketchUP.
And Netscape 3.0 (how Neander is THAT?) can't, or has
trouble viewing the content of more and more web sites.

SO - about three weeks ago - I headed down to the Apple
Store and picked up a NEW Mac Mini - 6" x 6" x 2" - since
I already had a flat screen display, keyboard and mouse.
Five or six times faster and 1/30th the size of the old
G3 - and it's so CUTE- silver gray sides and a white top
-with a gray Apple Logo.

What happened should be familiar to anyone who has
bought one of those fancy "easy to use" dovetail or
mortise and tenon jigs. The Silver Tongued Devil
who you saw demonstrate it made it look SO EASY,
and so Idiot Proof, and so FAST and so ACCURATE.

Then YOU buy it, set it up and use it - just like you
think you remember The Silver Tongued Devil did
at The Show. That's when perception and reality
often conflict.

Despite what The Silver Tongued Devil said - or
heavily implied, and despite what The Brochure
would have you believe, and despite what the
various "reviews" in the woodworking magazines
would have you believe - this thing AIN'T intuitive
to use, nor EASY, FAST and ACCURATE - until
YOU learn to use it EXACTLY as the manufacturer
intended for you to use it.

With a computer system that's Stand Alone,
migrating upward and learning a new User Interface
(Apple's strong point) can be tricky. Add in an
Internet Service Provider, totally unfamiliar
downloaded software and an A/B Box so you can
switch the monitor from Old System to New
System and back - and you may drop into
The Twilight Zone.

Seems while trying to "set up" the New Computer
- and it's software, I somehow managed to screw
up the Old Computer and it's mail and news settings.
Suddenly, and mysteriously, I couldn't get to
usenet news groups and couldn't send e-mail.
Then I COULD get to usenet groups - but couldn't
post messages - or send any e-mail.

Only took a bit over a week to be able to at least
get to and view posts to the wreck and the
woodturning news group, "making do" by spending
time at WoodCentral to satisfy my Forum
addiction. There I found a recomended Mac
newsreader ThunderBird and the web browser
FireFox recomended here and in other forums
/ groups.

Still haven't got my "old" capabilities working
on the New Computer but I THINK I've recovered
them on the Old Computer. Only this post will
tell the tale.

charlie b
crossing his fingers as he clicks on "Send Now"
- and whispering "please, please, please work"

charlieb wrote in news:482877DC.1879
@accesscom.com:

I THINK I've got this figured out - but this message will confirm
that - or not. This will be my 2,608th attempt to post to
this group. Once again my fingers are crossed.

If you find a computer - and software compatible with it - that
does what you want it to do, and come to know it and the
software you've acquired for it like the back of your hand,
there's a tendency to stick with it - while the rest of the
world moves on.


*snip*

Still haven't got my "old" capabilities working
on the New Computer but I THINK I've recovered
them on the Old Computer. Only this post will
tell the tale.

charlie b
crossing his fingers as he clicks on "Send Now"
- and whispering "please, please, please work"


Good luck, charlie b! I'm typing this on my week-and-a-half old
computer. For me it wasn't switching from classic Mac OS to OS X, it was
going from XP to Vista. Vista has made improvements, but I've got to
find everything again.

My previous computer was 4 1/2 years old, and it's going to be
reformatted and passed on to my mother, who's laptop is 5 and starting to
develop screen issues. Those hinges aren't made to withstand 5 years of
opening and closing...

Puckdropper
--
You can only do so much with caulk, cardboard, and duct tape.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

charlieb wrote:
I THINK I've got this figured out - but this message will confirm
that - or not. This will be my 2,608th attempt to post to
this group. Once again my fingers are crossed.

[truisms snip]

Speaking as one whose first computer (that I did some programming on)
was a Burroughs E101 externally programmed thing that was about the size
of a desk (and did about as much). I found that over the years that it
took about six months to become pretty much obsolete technically. I can
still talk in theoretical terms about software and data design. My
usage of hardware is pretty much constrained to communications and word
processing (don't forget Solitaire). We still replace hardware every
four or five years and it's never easy or intuitive. In short don't
believe ads or the sweet talk of a computer geek.

mahalo, (and good luck)
jo4hn

"charlieb" wrote in message
...
I THINK I've got this figured out - but this message will confirm
that - or not. This will be my 2,608th attempt to post to
this group. Once again my fingers are crossed.

Snip


I see you Charlieb.

I feeeel your pain. It seems that I cannot make a change to my internet
settings or install new internet software with out my ISP also going down at
the same moment. So I try to undo or fix it on my end all the while my ISP
is going up and down on their end.

My first personal computer ran CPm.

It had Wordstar 1 on it.

I was very disturbed to go to DOS based stuff.

I got over it.

My first Windows computer was a Dutch box from AST.

It was OK.

I actually miss the 3.1 flat file.

I bought 95 when it came out ("Start Me Up").

I didn't know it then but boxes are designed to run with certain
software.

I bought a Sony Vaio.

It ran 95 just fine.

I bought a laptop that ran 95 just fine.

It didn't like Windows 98 SE or the bogus Millenium Edition.

It was made by a monitor company that had reached too far (CTX).

I bought a no name box from MIcro Center.

Ran Win XP and backwards, just fine.

I bought another laptop that was an XP box - a Dell.

It runs fine but is four years old and one bad accident away from a
new box.

I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

I bought a laptop for my wife a year ago.

It runs WinVista.

I don't know what that means and I don't care.

I was happiest when I was running DOS.






On Mon, 12 May 2008 10:01:12 -0700, charlieb
wrote:

I THINK I've got this figured out - but this message will confirm
that - or not. This will be my 2,608th attempt to post to
this group. Once again my fingers are crossed.

If you find a computer - and software compatible with it - that
does what you want it to do, and come to know it and the
software you've acquired for it like the back of your hand,
there's a tendency to stick with it - while the rest of the
world moves on.

I had unintentionally become a Computer System Neander
- and the world was leaving me behind - as was Apple and
Mac software. My old Mac G3 purchased in 1997 or maybe
it was '98, won't run the newest versions of my frequently
used software, nor any of the "new stuff" - like SketchUP.
And Netscape 3.0 (how Neander is THAT?) can't, or has
trouble viewing the content of more and more web sites.

SO - about three weeks ago - I headed down to the Apple
Store and picked up a NEW Mac Mini - 6" x 6" x 2" - since
I already had a flat screen display, keyboard and mouse.
Five or six times faster and 1/30th the size of the old
G3 - and it's so CUTE- silver gray sides and a white top
-with a gray Apple Logo.

What happened should be familiar to anyone who has
bought one of those fancy "easy to use" dovetail or
mortise and tenon jigs. The Silver Tongued Devil
who you saw demonstrate it made it look SO EASY,
and so Idiot Proof, and so FAST and so ACCURATE.

Then YOU buy it, set it up and use it - just like you
think you remember The Silver Tongued Devil did
at The Show. That's when perception and reality
often conflict.

Despite what The Silver Tongued Devil said - or
heavily implied, and despite what The Brochure
would have you believe, and despite what the
various "reviews" in the woodworking magazines
would have you believe - this thing AIN'T intuitive
to use, nor EASY, FAST and ACCURATE - until
YOU learn to use it EXACTLY as the manufacturer
intended for you to use it.

With a computer system that's Stand Alone,
migrating upward and learning a new User Interface
(Apple's strong point) can be tricky. Add in an
Internet Service Provider, totally unfamiliar
downloaded software and an A/B Box so you can
switch the monitor from Old System to New
System and back - and you may drop into
The Twilight Zone.

Seems while trying to "set up" the New Computer
- and it's software, I somehow managed to screw
up the Old Computer and it's mail and news settings.
Suddenly, and mysteriously, I couldn't get to
usenet news groups and couldn't send e-mail.
Then I COULD get to usenet groups - but couldn't
post messages - or send any e-mail.

Only took a bit over a week to be able to at least
get to and view posts to the wreck and the
woodturning news group, "making do" by spending
time at WoodCentral to satisfy my Forum
addiction. There I found a recomended Mac
newsreader ThunderBird and the web browser
FireFox recomended here and in other forums
/ groups.

Still haven't got my "old" capabilities working
on the New Computer but I THINK I've recovered
them on the Old Computer. Only this post will
tell the tale.

charlie b
crossing his fingers as he clicks on "Send Now"
- and whispering "please, please, please work"

Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
www.home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On 12 May 2008 18:34:52 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Good luck, charlie b! I'm typing this on my week-and-a-half old
computer. For me it wasn't switching from classic Mac OS to OS X, it was
going from XP to Vista. Vista has made improvements, but I've got to
find everything again.

I recently bought a $495 Acer laptop (a newegg.com "Special", $150
less than Staples!) with Windows Vista. I switched to "Classic" menus
and window layout, and I'm quite happy.

I honestly don't see what the Vista slamming is about, other than it
reminds me of the complaining when XP first was released. However, I
don't upgrade an OS, I replace the machine. I'm sure true upgraders,
with hot rodded hardware, have issues I can't even imagine...

I actually did look at a few MacBooks, but something comparable to
this $500 Vista machine would cost me $1500, so I passed. I wanted a
machine that would fit in my flight bag.

I figure with my $495 machine, I can run Open Office, all my 'net and
flight planning s/w, and take it all with me, to suck on the free WiFi
available at any small airport and most everywhere else.

My current desktop is 6 years old, and will remain in service.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On 12 May 2008 18:34:52 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Good luck, charlie b! I'm typing this on my week-and-a-half old
computer. For me it wasn't switching from classic Mac OS to OS X, it
was going from XP to Vista. Vista has made improvements, but I've got
to find everything again.

I recently bought a $495 Acer laptop (a newegg.com "Special", $150
less than Staples!) with Windows Vista. I switched to "Classic" menus
and window layout, and I'm quite happy.

I honestly don't see what the Vista slamming is about, other than it
reminds me of the complaining when XP first was released. However, I
don't upgrade an OS, I replace the machine. I'm sure true upgraders,
with hot rodded hardware, have issues I can't even imagine...

I actually did look at a few MacBooks, but something comparable to
this $500 Vista machine would cost me $1500, so I passed. I wanted a
machine that would fit in my flight bag.

I figure with my $495 machine, I can run Open Office, all my 'net and
flight planning s/w, and take it all with me, to suck on the free WiFi
available at any small airport and most everywhere else.

My current desktop is 6 years old, and will remain in service.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

I have a Vista 3680-2633, about the same price with 2 GB Ram from
Microcenter. Now I have had it for 6 months or so and installed a whole
bunch of "nice" software, it does not want to install Vista SP1. I'll
have to make an image then try reinstalling Vista, upgrade to SP1, then
reinstall all my fucCtrlHCtrlHCtrlH nice software. GRUMPPHH!


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:


I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.

On Tue, 13 May 2008 00:20:17 GMT, Han wrote:

I have a Vista 3680-2633, about the same price with 2 GB Ram from
Microcenter. Now I have had it for 6 months or so and installed a whole
bunch of "nice" software, it does not want to install Vista SP1. I'll
have to make an image then try reinstalling Vista, upgrade to SP1, then
reinstall all my fucCtrlHCtrlHCtrlH nice software. GRUMPPHH!

This and previously described phenomena plus a personal experience the
other day are exactly what have driven me to Linux. I downloaded 8.04
the other day (free) and installed it on a 320gB HD I bought for $69.
That could have conceivably been my only expenditure, but I gussied up
the package with a $40 mobo and a $70 processor. The OS loaded right
up, it's preloaded with FireFox (which I'd been using for a year or
more), it found the internet just fine on my network, and it reads the
other (XP) computers on the network. The XP computers don't see the
Linux box (yet) but that's not the fault of Linux, per se.

The other day I took a HD I've had for a while (in fact I had loaded
an earlier version of Linux on it a couple of weeks ago before I got
the bigger HD) and loaded XP onto it. Then I had to register it. But
the registration code I had didn't work, so I had to call tech
support. It took almost 50 minutes sitting on the phone waiting for
the tech guy to weave whatever magic they have to weave to get me a
working reg key.

I'd been teetering on the "bye-bye m$" brink for a while, but now it's
"never again." I'll need to find complementary apps to what I'd been
used to on m$ stuff for the last 18 years, but then I've functionally
had to do that at least three times along the way, anyway, and that
doesn't count the C/PM, Applesoft, DOS3.3/4.01/5.0/6.22 transitions I
had along the way, too.

The friggin' OS is free! It's stable. It's secure. It has a proven
track record. You can be as GUIish as you want with it or play command
line as much as you want. It doesn't fight you past the learning
curve, which all the rest have, as well, by the way.

m$ wants $ for an obsolete OS (although it's still better, relatively
speaking, than its replacement). By the way, I've been describing
Vista as the new ME.



--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On 12 May 2008 18:34:52 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Good luck, charlie b! I'm typing this on my week-and-a-half old
computer. For me it wasn't switching from classic Mac OS to OS X, it
was going from XP to Vista. Vista has made improvements, but I've got
to find everything again.

I recently bought a $495 Acer laptop (a newegg.com "Special", $150
less than Staples!) with Windows Vista. I switched to "Classic" menus
and window layout, and I'm quite happy.

I honestly don't see what the Vista slamming is about, other than it
reminds me of the complaining when XP first was released. However, I
don't upgrade an OS, I replace the machine. I'm sure true upgraders,
with hot rodded hardware, have issues I can't even imagine...


*snip*

My system does have a few issues, but they're not because of Vista. It's
Lenovo's fault. They didn't get power management right, and that's a
huge issue on a laptop.

User Account Control was a bit annoying during initial set up. It's easy
enough to disable, though. I reenabled it after I was done moving and
installing, and it's not popped up unless I've headed in to the control
panel.

Puckdropper
--
You can only do so much with caulk, cardboard, and duct tape.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

On May 12, 1:01*pm, charlieb wrote:
I THINK I've got this figured out - but this message will confirm
that - or not. *This will be my 2,608th attempt to post to
this group. *Once again my fingers are crossed.

If you find a computer - and software compatible with it - that
does what you want it to do, and come to know it and the
software you've acquired for it like the back of your hand,
there's a tendency to stick with it - while the rest of the
world moves on. *

I had unintentionally become a Computer System Neander
- and the world was leaving me behind - as was Apple and
Mac software. *My old Mac G3 purchased in 1997 or maybe
it was '98, won't run the newest versions of my frequently
used software, nor any of the "new stuff" - like SketchUP.
And Netscape 3.0 (how Neander is THAT?) can't, or has
trouble viewing the content of more and more web sites.

SO - about three weeks ago - I headed down to the Apple
Store and picked up a NEW Mac Mini - 6" x 6" x 2" - since
I already had a flat screen display, keyboard and mouse.
Five or six times faster and 1/30th the size of the old
G3 - and it's so CUTE- silver gray sides and a white top
-with a gray Apple Logo.

What happened should be familiar to anyone who has
bought one of those fancy "easy to use" dovetail or
mortise and tenon jigs. *The Silver Tongued Devil
who you saw demonstrate it made it look SO EASY,
and so Idiot Proof, and so FAST and so ACCURATE.

Then YOU buy it, set it up and use it - just like you
think you remember The Silver Tongued Devil did
at The Show. *That's when perception and reality
often conflict.

Despite what The Silver Tongued Devil said - or
heavily implied, and despite what The Brochure
would have you believe, and despite what the
various "reviews" in the woodworking magazines
would have you believe - this thing AIN'T intuitive
to use, nor EASY, FAST and ACCURATE - until
YOU learn to use it EXACTLY as the manufacturer
intended for you to use it.

With a computer system that's Stand Alone,
migrating upward and learning a new User Interface
(Apple's strong point) can be tricky. *Add in an
Internet Service Provider, totally unfamiliar
downloaded software and an A/B Box so you can
switch the monitor from Old System to New
System and back - and you may drop into
The Twilight Zone.

Seems while trying to "set up" the New Computer
- and it's software, I somehow managed to screw
up the Old Computer and it's mail and news settings.
Suddenly, and mysteriously, I couldn't get to
usenet news groups and couldn't send e-mail.
Then I COULD get to usenet groups - but couldn't
post messages - or send any e-mail.

Only took a bit over a week to be able to at least
get to and view posts to the wreck and the
woodturning news group, "making do" by spending
time at WoodCentral to satisfy my Forum
addiction. *There I found a recomended Mac
newsreader ThunderBird and the web browser
FireFox recomended here and in other forums
/ groups.

Still haven't got my "old" capabilities working
on the New Computer but I THINK I've recovered
them on the Old Computer. *Only this post will
tell the tale.

charlie b
crossing his fingers as he clicks on "Send Now"
- and whispering "please, please, please work"

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...omicrosoft.jpg

LRod wrote in news:kgoh2418ub0ttv8uhvg5l7bt3gspihn0mf@
4ax.com:

snipped for brevity

I have some apps that like M$, but dislike Linux. Foremost is Quicken.
Have you gotten something like wine (spelling?) to work? Getting rid of
Vista may be getting to be a priority for me.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Robatoy wrote in news:0cb28030-8e5b-4516-9d8d-
:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...omicrosoft.jpg


That logo on the laptop is too small for these eyes ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:38:56 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:


I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.



Wireless Internet Check
Birkenstocks Check
Tilley Shorts Sherwin Williams Painter's Whites
Starbucks **** Starbucks
Toyota Prius 1987 Ford F150


Thank god I'm a country boy!





Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
www.home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On May 12, 8:57*pm, Tom Watson wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:38:56 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

wrote:
On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:

I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.

Wireless Internet * * * Check
Birkenstocks * * * * * *Check
Tilley Shorts * * * * * Sherwin Williams Painter's Whites
Starbucks * * * * * * * **** Starbucks
Toyota Prius * * * * * *1987 Ford F150 gunrack???

Thank god I'm a country boy!

On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:59:19 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On May 12, 8:57*pm, Tom Watson wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:38:56 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

wrote:
On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:

I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.

Wireless Internet * * * Check
Birkenstocks * * * * * *Check
Tilley Shorts * * * * * Sherwin Williams Painter's Whites
Starbucks * * * * * * * **** Starbucks
Toyota Prius * * * * * *1987 Ford F150 gunrack???

Thank god I'm a country boy!




No gunrack but a Mossberg 12G behind the seat and a Colt 1911 under
the seat.




Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
www.home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"Robatoy" wrote:

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.

My Tilley hat I love, even learned to reef my Tilley hat with one
hand, but Tilley shorts, I'll pass, along with the rest of the crap
above.

Lew

On Tue, 13 May 2008 00:54:34 GMT, Han wrote:

LRod wrote in news:kgoh2418ub0ttv8uhvg5l7bt3gspihn0mf@
4ax.com:

snipped for brevity

I have some apps that like M$, but dislike Linux. Foremost is Quicken.
Have you gotten something like wine (spelling?) to work? Getting rid of
Vista may be getting to be a priority for me.

I'm very early in my Linux journey. I haven't even begun trying
emulators. Frankly, I'm probably going to concentrate on native Linux
apps (forgot to mention, Open Office is packaged with the Linux I
got--Ubuntu, for the record--it handles all the m$ orifice formats).
Less trouble. Speak to some Mac people--they'll probably tell you the
same thing.

Incidentally, I gave up on Quicken quite a while ago. I was an adopter
in about 1990 and used it faithfully up until about Fall, '06. One of
the ongoing problems was utter lack of support from Intuit. They are
notorious for it. Check newsgroups geared toward them.

I've been using online banking which covers my needs (which are
simple) so far. If I do eventually go back to accounting software,
I'll find a native Linux app. But I don't know of any yet.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On May 12, 9:13*pm, Tom Watson wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:59:19 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy



wrote:
On May 12, 8:57*pm, Tom Watson wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:38:56 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

wrote:
On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:

I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.

Wireless Internet * * * Check
Birkenstocks * * * * * *Check
Tilley Shorts * * * * * Sherwin Williams Painter's Whites
Starbucks * * * * * * * **** Starbucks
Toyota Prius * * * * * *1987 Ford F150 *gunrack???

Thank god I'm a country boy!

No gunrack but a Mossberg 12G behind the seat and a Colt 1911 under
the seat.

Athena D'Italia III Over & Under, a gift from my bookie. No small
arms.

Robatoy wrote:

On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:


I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.



And carry a Moleskine notebook just like Ernest Hemmingway.

Robatoy wrote:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...omicrosoft.jpg

Suspicion confirmed.

It's ironic that MicroSoft's first Killer App WAS NOT it's operating
system - but rather Excel, running on a Mac and exploiting the
Apple GUI which MS then tried to copy with WinDoze, failed, kept
trying and is STILL trying to copy. At the moment they've gotten
all the way up to approximate Mac's OS 7 level (Apple is currently
up to Mac OS 10.5.2).

On May 13, 12:20*am, Lobby Dosser
wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:

I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.

And carry a Moleskine notebook just like Ernest Hemmingway.

Truth is... I run Windows XP Pro very reliably and quickly on my
Mac.... at the same time as I run OSX Leopard.
All I want from a computer, is to get my work done. I don't want to
know from .INI's .bat's and such.
I have 3 macs at home and I spend about 1/2 hour per month doing IT.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...oy/Rwindow.jpg
The farking PC at the shop needs a LOT more attention. I guess I'm too
stupid to operate a PC? Running that thing, is like needing 26
wrenches in a specific order to change a fricking routerbit? Those
PC's are horribly underdeveloped.

r
(aka Zebco 6)

On May 13, 12:33*am, charlieb wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...omicrosoft.jpg

Suspicion confirmed.

It's ironic that MicroSoft's first Killer App WAS NOT it's operating
system - but rather Excel, running on a Mac and exploiting the
Apple GUI which MS then tried to copy with WinDoze, failed, kept
trying and is STILL trying to copy. *At the moment they've gotten
all the way up to approximate Mac's *OS 7 level (Apple is currently
up to Mac OS 10.5.2).

Uhhnoooo... not another Mac snob??? LOL.

me tooooo (except the snob part...G)

Han wrote:

LRod wrote in
news:kgoh2418ub0ttv8uhvg5l7bt3gspihn0mf@ 4ax.com:

snipped for brevity

I have some apps that like M$, but dislike Linux. Foremost is Quicken.
Have you gotten something like wine (spelling?) to work? Getting rid of
Vista may be getting to be a priority for me.


I'm running MoneyDance instead of Quicken, it has a native Linux version.
Advantages: MoneyDance doesn't sunset it's software and lobotomize newer
versions. Imports Quicken files, so the conversion is somewhat painless.
Cheaper than Quicken. Scrolling and date auto-fill are much more intuitive
and better than Quicken. Disadvantages: Some people have had some issues
with on-line banking (I don't do that so I can't say). Investing
management is somewhat less intuitive. Checkout www.moneydance.com, they
do have a trial version.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Robatoy wrote:

On May 13, 12:20*am, Lobby Dosser
wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:

I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed
(with recycled water) Toyota Prius.

And carry a Moleskine notebook just like Ernest Hemmingway.

Truth is... I run Windows XP Pro very reliably and quickly on my
Mac.... at the same time as I run OSX Leopard.
All I want from a computer, is to get my work done. I don't want to
know from .INI's .bat's and such.
I have 3 macs at home and I spend about 1/2 hour per month doing IT.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...oy/Rwindow.jpg
The farking PC at the shop needs a LOT more attention. I guess I'm too
stupid to operate a PC? Running that thing, is like needing 26
wrenches in a specific order to change a fricking routerbit? Those
PC's are horribly underdeveloped.

r
(aka Zebco 6)


I wrote my first program in 1965. I worked with software and hardware off
and on until 2001 - and still muck about. I Hate PCs. Anytime I've ever
upgraded Anything on a PC it his taken me ALL Friggin DAY to get the job
done. My son is a sysadmin for a national company. When I need something
done I call him and he helps me fly it into the ground. I Hate PCs. But
I've got way too much invested.

charlieb wrote:

Robatoy wrote:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...eomicrosoft.jp
g

Suspicion confirmed.

It's ironic that MicroSoft's first Killer App WAS NOT it's operating
system - but rather Excel, running on a Mac and exploiting the
Apple GUI which MS then tried to copy with WinDoze, failed, kept
trying and is STILL trying to copy. At the moment they've gotten
all the way up to approximate Mac's OS 7 level (Apple is currently
up to Mac OS 10.5.2).

The Apple GUI is a copy of the PARC GUI. Been there, used it.

Robatoy wrote:

On May 13, 12:33Â*am, charlieb wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...omicrosoft.jpg

Suspicion confirmed.

It's ironic that MicroSoft's first Killer App WAS NOT it's operating
system - but rather Excel, running on a Mac and exploiting the
Apple GUI which MS then tried to copy with WinDoze, failed, kept
trying and is STILL trying to copy. Â*At the moment they've gotten
all the way up to approximate Mac's Â*OS 7 level (Apple is currently
up to Mac OS 10.5.2).

Uhhnoooo... not another Mac snob??? LOL.

me tooooo (except the snob part...G)

Not a snob, but rapidly becoming a fan after getting my wife an iMac to
replace her Windows laptop.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Tue, 13 May 2008 04:20:18 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

Robatoy wrote:

On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:


I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.



And carry a Moleskine notebook just like Ernest Hemmingway.


Skinning moles sounds tedious.




Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
www.home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Tom Watson wrote:

On Tue, 13 May 2008 04:20:18 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

Robatoy wrote:

On May 12, 7:49*pm, Tom Watson wrote:


I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and
Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with
recycled water) Toyota Prius.



And carry a Moleskine notebook just like Ernest Hemmingway.


Skinning moles sounds tedious.


Compared to catching them, it's a piece of cake.

charlieb wrote:
Robatoy wrote:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...omicrosoft.jpg

Suspicion confirmed.

It's ironic that MicroSoft's first Killer App WAS NOT it's operating
system - but rather Excel, running on a Mac and exploiting the
Apple GUI which MS then tried to copy with WinDoze, failed, kept
trying and is STILL trying to copy. At the moment they've gotten
all the way up to approximate Mac's OS 7 level (Apple is currently
up to Mac OS 10.5.2).

What's ironic is that Microsoft writes their own OS, while Apple tacks
a proprietary GUI on top of freeware. And probably doesn't donate a
cent to FSF or BSD or any of the others who actually did most of their
development for them.

As for Excel being Microsoft's first "killer app", actually that was
BASIC, without which the Apple II would have flopped miserably.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Mark & Juanita wrote in
:

I'm running MoneyDance instead of Quicken, it has a native Linux
version.
Advantages: MoneyDance doesn't sunset it's software and lobotomize
newer versions. Imports Quicken files, so the conversion is somewhat
painless. Cheaper than Quicken. Scrolling and date auto-fill are much
more intuitive and better than Quicken. Disadvantages: Some people
have had some issues with on-line banking (I don't do that so I can't
say). Investing management is somewhat less intuitive. Checkout
www.moneydance.com, they do have a trial version.

Thanks for your replies, M&J, and LRod.

I did try Moneydance once, but the conversion from Quicken sucked, so I
discarded it. I'm thinking about retiring, so then will be the time to
switch, especially since I just acquired (late 2007) Q2008, and have to get
my money's worth out of it!

Nobody using emulators yet?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:
Mark & Juanita wrote in
:

I'm running MoneyDance instead of Quicken, it has a native Linux
version.
Advantages: MoneyDance doesn't sunset it's software and lobotomize
newer versions. Imports Quicken files, so the conversion is
somewhat
painless. Cheaper than Quicken. Scrolling and date auto-fill are
much
more intuitive and better than Quicken. Disadvantages: Some people
have had some issues with on-line banking (I don't do that so I
can't
say). Investing management is somewhat less intuitive. Checkout
www.moneydance.com, they do have a trial version.

Thanks for your replies, M&J, and LRod.

I did try Moneydance once, but the conversion from Quicken sucked,
so
I discarded it. I'm thinking about retiring, so then will be the
time to switch, especially since I just acquired (late 2007) Q2008,
and have to get my money's worth out of it!

Nobody using emulators yet?

Emulators work fine, however it seems silly to run Linux just so you
can run Windows under an emulator. And since the video system is
emulated in software you're limited in what you can run with
acceptable performance.

If you mean WINE, WINE Is Not an Emulator. It is an attempt to
provide the Windows API at a binary level on Unix. How well it works
depends on the application--if it doesn't make any calls that aren't
supported by the DLLs provided under WINE then it works fine.
Personally I've found that it's more effort than it's worth. If you
want to run Windows apps then run Windows--using Linux primarily to
run Windows apps is like doing a tonsillectomy through the rectum.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"charlieb"wrote

It's ironic that MicroSoft's first Killer App WAS NOT it's operating
system - but rather Excel, running on a Mac and exploiting the
Apple GUI which MS then tried to copy with WinDoze, failed, kept
trying and is STILL trying to copy. At the moment they've gotten
all the way up to approximate Mac's OS 7 level (Apple is currently
up to Mac OS 10.5.2).

Yabbut ... go back and take a look at which OS your original post starting
this thread was bitching about.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On May 13, 7:48*am, "Swingman" wrote:
"charlieb"wrote

It's ironic that MicroSoft's first Killer App WAS NOT it's operating
system - but rather Excel, running on a Mac and exploiting the
Apple GUI which MS then tried to copy with WinDoze, failed, kept
trying and is STILL trying to copy. *At the moment they've gotten
all the way up to approximate Mac's *OS 7 level (Apple is currently
up to Mac OS 10.5.2).

Yabbut ... go back and take a look at which OS your original post starting
this thread was bitching about.

Well... yes... but I think I know what got to charlieb:

"If you find a computer - and software compatible with it - that
does what you want it to do, and come to know it and the
software you've acquired for it like the back of your hand,
there's a tendency to stick with it - while the rest of the
world moves on."

The 'world', in this case, moved on by such an enormous leap (spread
out over many years) that it was more a realisation of culture shock
than an evaluation of the platform in question. Holy cow!! Colour????

People either love or hate Apple and there seems to be no space in
between.
Personally, I think backwards from the task at hand. Get the job done.
My finances have been PC based up to a few year ago, when MYOB made a
commitment to keep supporting OSX.

When I have to put a nail in, I really don't care if it is a Stanley
or a Estwing hammer.
If I were to be swinging a hammer all day, I'd probably look into
which would be best for me.
My Macs ARE PC's... they all boot in Windows XP pro, native, and the
only thing I am happy about, is the fact that Apple's hardware seldom
breaks, and I get two quality computers for the price of one...
although they are a little more money than PC, comparably equipped,
the difference in price isn't that great.

Like charlieb, I learned certain software like the back of my hand,
including all the CAD and 3D a man could want, but my upgrade path has
been consistent both from a hardware point of view as well as
software.

Sometimes I boot one of my Macs from my museum. Things have changed.

...and that reminded me of something that happened the other day.
Back in the late 1960's, I had a girlfriend. She was the most
beautiful creature on this planet. Her parents moved her out west and
we lost touch. In my mind, she was still a fine female specimen...
till I ran into her again. Age wasn't kind to her either. We're
talking an 8" floppy here...just to mix a few metaphors...G

I'm sure she felt the same.

r

On Tue, 13 May 2008 06:34:05 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

...and that reminded me of something that happened the other day.
Back in the late 1960's, I had a girlfriend. She was the most
beautiful creature on this planet. Her parents moved her out west and
we lost touch. In my mind, she was still a fine female specimen...
till I ran into her again. Age wasn't kind to her either. We're
talking an 8" floppy here...just to mix a few metaphors...G

You're talking about her reaction, right?


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

Han wrote:
Mark & Juanita wrote in
:

I'm running MoneyDance instead of Quicken, it has a native Linux
version.
Advantages: MoneyDance doesn't sunset it's software and lobotomize
newer versions. Imports Quicken files, so the conversion is
somewhat
painless. Cheaper than Quicken. Scrolling and date auto-fill are
much
more intuitive and better than Quicken. Disadvantages: Some people
have had some issues with on-line banking (I don't do that so I
can't
say). Investing management is somewhat less intuitive. Checkout
www.moneydance.com, they do have a trial version.

Thanks for your replies, M&J, and LRod.

I did try Moneydance once, but the conversion from Quicken sucked,
so
I discarded it. I'm thinking about retiring, so then will be the
time to switch, especially since I just acquired (late 2007) Q2008,
and have to get my money's worth out of it!

Nobody using emulators yet?

Emulators work fine, however it seems silly to run Linux just so you
can run Windows under an emulator. And since the video system is
emulated in software you're limited in what you can run with
acceptable performance.

If you mean WINE, WINE Is Not an Emulator. It is an attempt to
provide the Windows API at a binary level on Unix. How well it works
depends on the application--if it doesn't make any calls that aren't
supported by the DLLs provided under WINE then it works fine.
Personally I've found that it's more effort than it's worth. If you
want to run Windows apps then run Windows--using Linux primarily to
run Windows apps is like doing a tonsillectomy through the rectum.

I agree, but I want to keep running some of my Windows apps, and Quicken
is the most important. Since I am still employed, my work necessitates
things like Acrobat (not just reader), the Office suite, a database
program called Reference Manager, and more. When I retire, maybe that
won't be necessary any more and I can play with some form of Linux with
more sincerity. May be a year more, more or less ...


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On May 13, 8:37*pm, Han wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote :



Han wrote:
Mark & Juanita wrote in
:

* I'm running MoneyDance instead of Quicken, it has a native Linux
* version.
Advantages: *MoneyDance doesn't sunset it's software and lobotomize
newer versions. Imports Quicken files, so the conversion is
somewhat
painless. Cheaper than Quicken. Scrolling and date auto-fill are
much
more intuitive and better than Quicken. Disadvantages: *Some people
have had some issues with on-line banking (I don't do that so I
can't
say). *Investing management is somewhat less intuitive. *Checkout
www.moneydance.com, they do have a trial version.

Thanks for your replies, M&J, and LRod.

I did try Moneydance once, but the conversion from Quicken sucked,
so
I discarded it. *I'm thinking about retiring, so then will be the
time to switch, especially since I just acquired (late 2007) Q2008,
and have to get my money's worth out of it!

Nobody using emulators yet?

Emulators work fine, however it seems silly to run Linux just so you
can run Windows under an emulator. *And since the video system is
emulated in software you're limited in what you can run with
acceptable performance.

If you mean WINE, WINE Is Not an Emulator. *It is an attempt to
provide the Windows API at a binary level on Unix. *How well it works
depends on the application--if it doesn't make any calls that aren't
supported by the DLLs provided under WINE then it works fine.
Personally I've found that it's more effort than it's worth. *If you
want to run Windows apps then run Windows--using Linux primarily to
run Windows apps is like doing a tonsillectomy through the rectum.

I agree, but I want to keep running some of my Windows apps, and Quicken
is the most important. *Since I am still employed, my work necessitates
things like

Acrobat (not just reader),
the Office suite,

All Mac

Robatoy wrote in news:0439d22f-b861-479f-8a07-
:

I agree, but I want to keep running some of my Windows apps, and Quicken
is the most important. ÿSince I am still employed, my work necessitates
things like

Acrobat (not just reader),
the Office suite,

All Mac

I have to win the lottery to buy all new software. If I switch OS, I'll go
open source and free.

My biggest mistake was buying my first PC. I did because I thought I could
get help from a colleague who had a PC. Both the decision and the reason
were probably wrong, but hey, so it goes!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

SWomebody wrote:

I agree, but I want to keep running some of my Windows apps, and
Quicken
is the most important. Since I am still employed, my work
necessitates
things like

Acrobat (not just reader),
the Office suite,

All Mac

Quicken sucks.

I run a program that started life in C/PM then DOS 2.0.

Hasn't been updated since 1990.

Have a customer data base file with almost 900 records and 50 custom
fields.

Uses less than 250K.

The guy who wrote it knew how to write tight code.

64K of space will do that.

Check books are simply a modified database file.

Since my task hasn't changed, no need to update the software.

Lew

sorry for your troubles, but Windows (Vista) is no better! IHM & STD's