I have the opportunity to purchase some American Beech, sawn last spring and
stickered since at the dirt cheap price of $.40/bd/ft. I've never used the
stuff before. Goolge tells me that it is prone to twisting an splitting when
being dried, also not particularly dimensionally stable.

My question is: I can just expect 25% less yield out of a pile, or is the
stuff just ill-behaved and likely to **** me off. I'm looking for a
completely subjective qualitative 1st-hand opinion on this stuff. I would
probably just use it as a secondary wood or painted (yes I do that from time
to time) furniture. I'm guessing that "not dimmensionally stable" means -
dont even think about it for shop fixtures.

So should I pick up 100-200 bd/ft becaue it's cheap and I'll eventually use
it, or should I steer clear?

Thanks,

Steve



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Mar 9, 2:24 pm, "C & S" wrote:
I have the opportunity to purchase some American Beech, sawn last spring and
stickered since at the dirt cheap price of $.40/bd/ft. I've never used the
stuff before. Goolge tells me that it is prone to twisting an splitting when
being dried, also not particularly dimensionally stable.

My question is: I can just expect 25% less yield out of a pile, or is the
stuff just ill-behaved and likely to **** me off. I'm looking for a
completely subjective qualitative 1st-hand opinion on this stuff. I would
probably just use it as a secondary wood or painted (yes I do that from time
to time) furniture. I'm guessing that "not dimmensionally stable" means -
dont even think about it for shop fixtures.

So should I pick up 100-200 bd/ft becaue it's cheap and I'll eventually use
it, or should I steer clear?


Beech has become a common substitute for maple in chairs and
tables. You can see some of the stuff at Starbucks. Once it is
cured it should behave quite well. It tends to be 'springy' and
resists splitting better than most furniture woods. It tends
to split and warp during seasoning because it does not
give up it's moisture very well, and is especially troublesome
during kiln drying. Once it is dried, those problems are past.

--

FF

On Mar 9, 4:04*pm, Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
On Mar 9, 2:24 pm, "C & S" wrote:

I have the opportunity to purchase some American Beech, sawn last spring and
stickered since at the dirt cheap price of *$.40/bd/ft. I've never used the
stuff before. Goolge tells me that it is prone to twisting an splitting when
being dried, also not particularly dimensionally stable.

My question is: I can just expect 25% less yield out of a pile, or is the
stuff just ill-behaved and likely to **** me off. I'm looking for a
completely subjective qualitative 1st-hand opinion on this stuff. I would
probably just use it as a secondary wood or painted (yes I do that from time
to time) furniture. I'm guessing that "not dimmensionally stable" means -
dont even think about it for shop fixtures.

So should I pick up 100-200 bd/ft becaue it's cheap and I'll eventually use
it, or should I steer clear?

Beech has become a common substitute for maple in chairs and
tables. You can see some of the stuff at Starbucks. * Once it is
cured it should behave quite well. *It tends to be 'springy' and
resists splitting better than most furniture woods. *It tends
to split and warp during seasoning because it does not
give up it's moisture very well, and is especially troublesome
during kiln drying. *Once it is dried, those problems are past.

That's my experience as well. I bought a pile of American beech from
a guy that had it sitting in his basement for about 8 years. It was
really, really warped, twisted and cupped - but once jointed and
planed it hasn't moved really at all. It's a nice heavy wood. I like
it.

JP

Thanks to both of you

That's exactly what I needed to know (hoped to hear :-) ). Perhaps a cinder
bock or two on the pile it warranted while continues to dry

Cheers,

Steve


"Jay Pique" wrote in message
...
On Mar 9, 4:04 pm, Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
On Mar 9, 2:24 pm, "C & S" wrote:

I have the opportunity to purchase some American Beech, sawn last spring
and
stickered since at the dirt cheap price of $.40/bd/ft. I've never used
the
stuff before. Goolge tells me that it is prone to twisting an splitting
when
being dried, also not particularly dimensionally stable.

My question is: I can just expect 25% less yield out of a pile, or is
the
stuff just ill-behaved and likely to **** me off. I'm looking for a
completely subjective qualitative 1st-hand opinion on this stuff. I
would
probably just use it as a secondary wood or painted (yes I do that from
time
to time) furniture. I'm guessing that "not dimmensionally stable"
means -
dont even think about it for shop fixtures.

So should I pick up 100-200 bd/ft becaue it's cheap and I'll eventually
use
it, or should I steer clear?

Beech has become a common substitute for maple in chairs and
tables. You can see some of the stuff at Starbucks. Once it is
cured it should behave quite well. It tends to be 'springy' and
resists splitting better than most furniture woods. It tends
to split and warp during seasoning because it does not
give up it's moisture very well, and is especially troublesome
during kiln drying. Once it is dried, those problems are past.

That's my experience as well. I bought a pile of American beech from
a guy that had it sitting in his basement for about 8 years. It was
really, really warped, twisted and cupped - but once jointed and
planed it hasn't moved really at all. It's a nice heavy wood. I like
it.

JP



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"C & S" wrote in message
.. .
I have the opportunity to purchase some American Beech, sawn last spring
and
stickered since at the dirt cheap price of $.40/bd/ft. I've never used
the
stuff before. Goolge tells me that it is prone to twisting an splitting
when
being dried, also not particularly dimensionally stable.

My question is: I can just expect 25% less yield out of a pile, or is the
stuff just ill-behaved and likely to **** me off. I'm looking for a
completely subjective qualitative 1st-hand opinion on this stuff. I would
probably just use it as a secondary wood or painted (yes I do that from
time
to time) furniture. I'm guessing that "not dimmensionally stable" means -
dont even think about it for shop fixtures.

So should I pick up 100-200 bd/ft becaue it's cheap and I'll eventually
use
it, or should I steer clear?

Expect a LOT of waste. Fred might get beech that behaves, but none such up
here where it's pretty abundant. American beech was used in the past for
flooring, but even nailed and T&G couldn't tame it. It'll do the Borg 2x4
trick when ripping like as not. It's pallet lumber mostly.

The big boys up the road are steaming the stuff to try and equalize the
stresses, but I didn't notice an awful lot of difference when we worked with
their donated experiments at the school. Might have found the formula by
now, but yours is air dried, so no help from new technology. European
beeches are much better behaved.

In article , "C & S" wrote:
I have the opportunity to purchase some American Beech, sawn last spring and
stickered since at the dirt cheap price of $.40/bd/ft. I've never used the
stuff before. Goolge tells me that it is prone to twisting an splitting when
being dried, also not particularly dimensionally stable.

Dimensional stability is *much* better if it's quartersawn. If it's flatsawn,
I think I'd stay away.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Mar 9, 8:16 pm, "George" wrote:
"C & S" wrote in s.com...



I have the opportunity to purchase some American Beech, sawn last spring
and
stickered since at the dirt cheap price of $.40/bd/ft. I've never used
the
stuff before. Goolge tells me that it is prone to twisting an splitting
when
being dried, also not particularly dimensionally stable.

My question is: I can just expect 25% less yield out of a pile, or is the
stuff just ill-behaved and likely to **** me off. I'm looking for a
completely subjective qualitative 1st-hand opinion on this stuff. I would
probably just use it as a secondary wood or painted (yes I do that from
time
to time) furniture. I'm guessing that "not dimmensionally stable" means -
dont even think about it for shop fixtures.

So should I pick up 100-200 bd/ft becaue it's cheap and I'll eventually
use
it, or should I steer clear?

Expect a LOT of waste. Fred might get beech that behaves, but none such up
here where it's pretty abundant. American beech was used in the past for
flooring, but even nailed and T&G couldn't tame it. It'll do the Borg 2x4
trick when ripping like as not. It's pallet lumber mostly.

Air dried or kiln dried?


The big boys up the road are steaming the stuff to try and equalize the
stresses, but I didn't notice an awful lot of difference when we worked with
their donated experiments at the school. Might have found the formula by
now, but yours is air dried, so no help from new technology. European
beeches are much better behaved.

European beech was the preferred wood for wooden bodied planes
and other hand tools in Europe. During the Colonial period and up
to the early 1800's yellow birch was commonly used on this side
of the pond. After that, (which corresponds to expansion past the
Apalachians) beech became the dominant wood used for hand
planes and wooden hand tools in general, with the most common
exception being clamps, which still were mostly made of yellow birch.

Ohio Tools which was a major manufacturer of wooden bodied
planes in/near Columbus used beech for almost all, though they
made some high end planes of Rosewood and maybe Boxwood.

It is commonly accepted that kiln dried wood is more stable than
air dried, but luthiers tend to prefer air-dried and the folks who
make
wooden-bodied planes in Europe claim to air dry their billets for
5 years or more. Maybe it depends on the species, climate, or
the patience of the person drying the wood.

That, and the fact that there are several species of Beech in
North America leads me to suppose that there are lots of
reasons for personally experience to vary.

--

FF

"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
...
It is commonly accepted that kiln dried wood is more stable than
air dried, but luthiers tend to prefer air-dried and the folks who
make
wooden-bodied planes in Europe claim to air dry their billets for
5 years or more. Maybe it depends on the species, climate, or
the patience of the person drying the wood.

Commonly accepted by people who have not examined the data. See Hoadley or
the FPL Wood Handbook.

The reason it was used in planes here, other than tradition, has more to do
with its even and slow wearing characteristics than stability. Beech as was
differs greatly from beech as is. Dimensional stability depends on the
degree to which the the annual rings are parallel or perpendicular to the
face(s). A big beech tree provided a lot of wood where a chunk the size of
a plane could have them that way. The smaller stuff not so much. Now the
bigger trees we've been "conserving" have caught some nasty virus, so we're
pretty much limited to smaller stuff.

On Mar 10, 6:51 pm, "George" wrote:
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in ...

It is commonly accepted that kiln dried wood is more stable than
air dried, but luthiers tend to prefer air-dried and the folks who
make
wooden-bodied planes in Europe claim to air dry their billets for
5 years or more. Maybe it depends on the species, climate, or
the patience of the person drying the wood.

Commonly accepted by people who have not examined the data. See Hoadley or
the FPL Wood Handbook.

The reason it was used in planes here, other than tradition, has more to do
with its even and slow wearing characteristics than stability. Beech as was
differs greatly from beech as is. Dimensional stability depends on the
degree to which the the annual rings are parallel or perpendicular to the
face(s). A big beech tree provided a lot of wood where a chunk the size of
a plane could have them that way. The smaller stuff not so much. Now the
bigger trees we've been "conserving" have caught some nasty virus, so we're
pretty much limited to smaller stuff.

That makes a lot of sense.

I'll add that beech has an interlocking grain that resists splitting,
which is important when tapping a wedge into a square cornered
mortise to hold a plane iron in place.

Even some of the old planes that show splits, the splits
are only part-way through, whereas a wood like red oak
or maple would have separated.

Beech has kind of a rubbery feel when handplaning or
paring. Hand planing leaves a very smooth surface.

--

FF

Fred the Red Shirt wrote in
:


That makes a lot of sense.

I'll add that beech has an interlocking grain that resists splitting,
which is important when tapping a wedge into a square cornered
mortise to hold a plane iron in place.

*snip*

How is it hardness wise? Would it be worth turning a baseball bat out of
it?

FWIW, I think most bats now are an ash or maple.

Puckdropper
--
Marching to the beat of a different drum is great... unless you're in
marching band.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

On Mar 11, 12:59 am, Puckdropper wrote:
Fred the Red Shirt wrote :



That makes a lot of sense.

I'll add that beech has an interlocking grain that resists splitting,
which is important when tapping a wedge into a square cornered
mortise to hold a plane iron in place.

*snip*

How is it hardness wise? Would it be worth turning a baseball bat out of
it?

FWIW, I think most bats now are an ash or maple.

I didn't know about the maple, but it makes sense. Beech might work,
but the grain is variable...interlocked in one area, straight in
another. Too, it's another wood where quartersawing works best--and is
the most attractive. Ash and maple have high elasticity. I don't know
what beech does in that area (and can't find my research material
right now), but it's the kind of thing needed to make a good ball bat,
the ability to take a shock and rebound. So, if you can find your copy
of the FPL wood book, check beech for elasticity and shock resistance.
From what I'm told, it can be a bitch to turn, too, because of the
grain.

On Mar 11, 7:58 am, Charlie Self wrote:
On Mar 11, 12:59 am, Puckdropper wrote:



Fred the Red Shirt wrote :

That makes a lot of sense.

I'll add that beech has an interlocking grain that resists splitting,
which is important when tapping a wedge into a square cornered
mortise to hold a plane iron in place.

*snip*

How is it hardness wise? Would it be worth turning a baseball bat out of
it?

FWIW, I think most bats now are an ash or maple.

I didn't know about the maple, but it makes sense. Beech might work,
but the grain is variable...interlocked in one area, straight in
another. Too, it's another wood where quartersawing works best--and is
the most attractive.

Quartersawn beech shows off the ray flecks. They are not as
prominent as in oak more like sycamore but with an even
finer grain. Once in a while a dufus one Bay advertises a
plane made from 'bird's eye maple, with a photo that makes
it clear it is really quarter sawn beech. I do recall seeing
one plane, (a jointer?) that really was made from bird's eye
maple. At one time bird's eye was considered to be a
defect so probably some woodwright decided to use his
low-grade lumber to make his planes....

Ash and maple have high elasticity. I don't know
what beech does in that area (and can't find my research material
right now), but it's the kind of thing needed to make a good ball bat,
the ability to take a shock and rebound. So, if you can find your copy
of the FPL wood book, check beech for elasticity and shock resistance.
From what I'm told, it can be a bitch to turn, too, because of the
grain.

It's not as hard as either and substantially lighter than both
I think. My guess would be that it is not as stiff (lower Young's
modulus) as either and thus would make a 'soft' bat,
optimized for grounding out and infield flies, maybe OK
for bunting.

I was a bit surprised to learn about the maple bats, maple
splits rather easily.

A persimmon bat might be interesting.

--

FF

On Mar 10, 6:51 pm, "George" wrote:
A big beech tree provided a lot of wood where a chunk the size of
a plane could have them that way. The smaller stuff not so much. Now the
bigger trees we've been "conserving" have caught some nasty virus, so we're
pretty much limited to smaller stuff.

I have an Ohio Tool beech wooden bodied plane that is
85+ years old and still in great shape. It only needed
a small amount of sanding to flatten. It's hard to tell
but it looks quarter sawn. Would the current "smaller
stuff" still be classified as sons' of beeches?

"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
...
I'll add that beech has an interlocking grain that resists splitting,
which is important when tapping a wedge into a square cornered
mortise to hold a plane iron in place.

Even some of the old planes that show splits, the splits
are only part-way through, whereas a wood like red oak
or maple would have separated.

Beech has kind of a rubbery feel when handplaning or
paring. Hand planing leaves a very smooth surface.


Yep, oily feel. As to resistance to splitting, dream on. The prominent
ray figure provides the same express route to the firewood stack as the even
more prominent rays in oak.

On Mar 11, 6:21 pm, "George" wrote:
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in ...

I'll add that beech has an interlocking grain that resists splitting,
which is important when tapping a wedge into a square cornered
mortise to hold a plane iron in place.
...

As to resistance to splitting, dream on. The prominent
ray figure provides the same express route to the firewood stack as the even
more prominent rays in oak.

Several sources concur with what you say about beech
being easy to split. But given live oaks reputation as
a difficult to split wood, I don't think the ray flecks figure
into it one way or another.

You told us some folks you know were steaming it.
I;ve read that turns it pink. Do you know if that color lasts?

--

FF

Fred the Red Shirt wrote in
:

On Mar 11, 7:58 am, Charlie Self wrote:

*trim*


Ash and maple have high elasticity. I don't know
what beech does in that area (and can't find my research material
right now), but it's the kind of thing needed to make a good ball
bat, the ability to take a shock and rebound. So, if you can find
your copy of the FPL wood book, check beech for elasticity and shock
resistance. From what I'm told, it can be a bitch to turn, too,
because of the grain.

It's not as hard as either and substantially lighter than both
I think. My guess would be that it is not as stiff (lower Young's
modulus) as either and thus would make a 'soft' bat,
optimized for grounding out and infield flies, maybe OK
for bunting.

I wonder if NL pitchers ever considered this?

I was a bit surprised to learn about the maple bats, maple
splits rather easily.

It's a specific type of maple, Rock Maple. It's apparently difficult to
find in baseball bat-friendly size and grain orientation.

http://www.redsoxsanta.com/article.cfm/id/58187

Apparently they also use Sugar Maple:
http://www.baseball-bats.net/basebal.../baseball-bat-
materials/index.html

A persimmon bat might be interesting.


Puckdropper
--
You can only do so much with caulk, cardboard, and duct tape.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm