To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

The downside to mine is that, while it's comfortable all year
around, it's in the basement. So are all the woodworking and
metalworking tools. I had to get them there. And the materials
I use all have to be brought down.

Stoutman wrote:
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

Mine is in the basement too, but I have a walk-out basement with a
double doors opening to a 6-foot opening. Plus, I have a window,
great for sharpening. Prior to that, my "shop" was in my apartment
living room! Sawdust in carpeting is not all that easy to remove.

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:09:48 -0500, Mike Berger
wrote:

The downside to mine is that, while it's comfortable all year
around, it's in the basement. So are all the woodworking and
metalworking tools. I had to get them there. And the materials
I use all have to be brought down.

Stoutman wrote:
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
The downside to mine is that, while it's comfortable all year
around, it's in the basement. So are all the woodworking and
metalworking tools. I had to get them there. And the materials
I use all have to be brought down.

Stoutman wrote:
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.


So are you saying that your shop would be more comfortable if it had no A/C?

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com


Whiner!
Greg
(one of the guys with AC in the shop!)

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:51:43 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

I actually put in actual A/C in the shop this year but I haven't had
a chance to get out and enjoy it yet. Window air conditioners are
cheap, why not pick one up and you can stop sweating?

"Stoutman" .@. opin'd thus:

To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Thank you.


My Man Garage came with heat (essential in Minnesota) but it didn't
have air conditioning, and I thought it woodn't need it, but I had a
window unit from the previous place, so I put it in. I found out that
it couldn't keep the Man Garage at low enough humidity in the summer
months, so I added another air conditioner. I run it whenever the
humidity gets to 65 percent or so, which keeps the temperature at
around 70 degrees -- about right for anything I want to do out there,
including woodworking and wrenching on motorcycles . . . .

--
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something
right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong

Hey!! gonna be 95 Sat. Sun. If it makes you feel better I'll turn it
off......NOT lol

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Stoutman wrote:
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

I lived all my life in California until 18 years ago - I'm 55. I had a
shop in my 1 car garage for years. We moved to Florida, I bought a new
Powermatic table saw and took over the 2 car garage for my new business
to be, cabinets and furniture. I got my first commission in July - the
double 90's. Just couldn't handle it, so I went into computers instead.

15 years later, I remarried - this time to a nice southern girl. She
finally told me what others never did. You can put an AC in the window
of a garage!

So now I have a new house, my workshop is in the garage, and I have the
biggest window ac I could fit!

As Borat would say, "very nice!"

Harvey

On Jul 6, 3:51 pm, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

Nice and cool in Canuckistan (with AC)

Fri, Jul 6, 2007, 3:51pm@. (Stoutman) doth lament:
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!
Sweaty in High Point.

Boy, you can sure tell I have a different view of all this then you
guys.

I've got a in the window of my shop;. sucks air in, blows out thru
the door; with a breeze going I can ignore the heat. Trees shading the
shop, probably helps. If the fan dies, I'd have to stop work, until I
got another.

Haven't even turned the house A/C on this year. Probably because
it died sometime between last year and the year before, and I've not
bothered to replace it yet. LOL Fan in the front window, window in the
back door open aout 6", somethimes the front door open, sometmes it's
closed, ignore the heat. Usually only turn the A/C on during Aug,
and/or Sep, andyway. And then only for a day or two a a time, then it's
back to the fan in the window.

Some heat in winter is the important part.



JOAT
I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do
them.
- Picasso

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:51:43 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.


Do you have decent ceilings and windows? Then YOU SUCK! G

I backed into an air conditioned shop, as it's the walk-out basement
under the air conditioned house. Open the door, and the cool air
falls down the stairs, into the basement, and out the back door.

The rest of the time, it's still a dank basement...

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Jul 6, 3:51?pm, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

--
Stoutmanwww.garagewoodworks.com

I've got two window units in my shop, about 12,000 Btus short of what
I need, so I have to start them up the night before, preferably just
before I fall asleep, to have a cool shop the next day. Then, if it's
not over about 86-87, they work. Right now, with temperatures in the
high 80s and low to mid 90s, forget it. By noon, the shop is
uninhabitable, at least for fat elderly types.

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:51:43 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

Must be that ale ya been drinking...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:13:03 -0000, Charlie Self wrote:

On Jul 6, 3:51?pm, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

--
Stoutmanwww.garagewoodworks.com

I've got two window units in my shop, about 12,000 Btus short of what
I need, so I have to start them up the night before, preferably just
before I fall asleep, to have a cool shop the next day. Then, if it's
not over about 86-87, they work. Right now, with temperatures in the
high 80s and low to mid 90s, forget it. By noon, the shop is
uninhabitable, at least for fat elderly types.

Damn, Charlie... that one hurt! lol
And here I was agreeing with Bill Grumbine about needing a "turning muscle"
before you said that..

I've got a 2 ton "mini split" in the shop, and only a 22 x 18' area to cool, so
it works pretty well, until manual labor is involved...

I turn it on in the morning a bit after sunrise, same time that I roll down the
reflective shades over the East-facing windows..
usually set at 28 or 29 C, (low 80's F) it works well for light work, friends
and clients over and stuff like that, but to keep from standing at the lathe in
a puddle of sweat I'd probably have to set it at about 75f... and I'm way too
cheap to do that, even with the low electricity prices here..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:


I've got a 2 ton "mini split" in the shop, and only a 22 x 18' area to cool, so
it works pretty well, until manual labor is involved...


Is your shop insulated? I've been thinking about installing a
mini-split in my shop, which is also my garage. It's approx 22 x 30,
but seems to be insulated, because it resists heating up on hot days
pretty well - better than the garage in the old house, which heated up
fast and stayed that way, even after I installed foam panels in the
garage door two years ago. I had a 12000-BTU window-type AC that managed
to keep the shop down to 85 F on hot days - not quite good enough for
this fat old guitar builder. :-(

Anyway, I was considering a 1.5-ton unit, but based on your comment I'm
thinking I'd better get the 2-ton unit.

Also, did you install it yourself, or did you have an AC contractor do it?

--Steve

My shop is in the basement also. I have to close the vents in the summer
because it
gets a little to cool.

Ted
"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

On Jul 7, 12:02 pm, Steve wrote:

Actually, you can have TOO large an air conditioner. If the unit is
too big, it'll cool down to your set temperature is so short a time
that it doesn't get a chance to remove the humidity. I think my AC
is just on the edge of too big, because on some days it is cool
but a little clammy.

Just my 2 cents...

Les

LesT wrote:
On Jul 7, 12:02 pm, Steve wrote:

Actually, you can have TOO large an air conditioner. If the unit is
too big, it'll cool down to your set temperature is so short a time
that it doesn't get a chance to remove the humidity. I think my AC
is just on the edge of too big, because on some days it is cool
but a little clammy.

Just my 2 cents...

Les


Good point - but in the area around Sacramento CA it's generally pretty
dry when it gets hot. Right now it's 81 degrees and the humidity is
41%. It's expected to get to 96 at around 5PM and the humidity will
probably be 25% by then.

Where are you located?

The garage is 22 x 30, but the ceiling is 11 feet, so its the equivalent
of a 900 sq ft room with an 8-ft ceiling. One supplier's system-size
calculator is telling me I need a 1.6-ton unit, and my experience with
the 12000-BTU unit I used before is that I should err toward larger, not
smaller. Also, since I'm working with guitars, I don't want the air too
dry anyway.

--Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Anyway, I was considering a 1.5-ton unit, but based on your comment I'm
thinking I'd better get the 2-ton unit.


--Steve

I have a 24x38 foot shop running a 1-1/2 ton AC and it just barely keeps up.
Today I started the AC at noon, and it has run steady all afternoon, 3:50 PM
right now. It has slowly dropped the temp from 78F down to 73F so far. So in
reality it is sized just right! With a 22x30 foot shop with reasonable
insulation I would go with a 1-1/2 ton AC. Bigger and it will not
dehumidify. You are actually better to run the hell out of a slightly
undersized unit than to go oversize. I used to have a window shaker for AC.
It would not keep up, but the shop was still pretty comfortable with the low
humidity.
Greg

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:51:43 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.


Mississippi in the summer. High heat. High humidity. No AC. It's
not supposed to be that way?

Frank

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:51:43 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.


Mississippi in the summer. High heat. High humidity. No AC. It's
not supposed to be that way?


Houston. Same, same. Sam's. Honkin' BIG fan ... or three. That's the way it
must be.

(Actually, it if doesn't stop raining soon, I'm more worried about high
water in the shop than heat.)

.... and there it goes again.

It's always something ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:55:50 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

Mississippi in the summer. High heat. High humidity. No AC. It's
not supposed to be that way?

I saw the biggest bug I've _EVER_ seen in MS.

Back in my sound guy daze, I was working for one night in Jackson, MS.
The grand opening of the North-something mall, with Beatlemania.
After the show, we went to some bar where people could drive boats
right in. I could just imagine people drowning in the place and not
being found until the next morning.

There was a beetle the size of a 33 1/3 record or Frisbee (At least it
looked that big to ME!) walking across the parking lot at us. I ran
the other way! G

For the other weird stories, there was a bar near a Christian college
in Rock Hill, SC (my daddy makes me go here...), called Plum Crazy,
the Art Deco District of Miami, SUNY Corning, or Front Street in
Bermuda...

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 17:06:49 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:51:43 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.


Mississippi in the summer. High heat. High humidity. No AC. It's
not supposed to be that way?


Houston. Same, same. Sam's. Honkin' BIG fan ... or three. That's the way it
must be.

(Actually, it if doesn't stop raining soon, I'm more worried about high
water in the shop than heat.)

... and there it goes again.

It's always something ...


Box fan in a window, ceiling fan, lots of shade trees, I get by fine.

Wish you could send that rain here. Severe drought. Only three
rains since 20th of May, but one of them this morning. Can't figure
out where the humidity is coming from. And the mosquitos.

Going to break the drought though. Break ground on the shop
expansion. When I poured the slab for the original shop, Dec. '90 it
rained every weekend day until April. I got so frustrated, I framed
it one weekend in the rain.

Farmers around here will thank me.

Frank

"
SUNY Corning

Please explain. I hope you don't mean Corning,NY

Allen

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message

Going to break the drought though. Break ground on the shop
expansion. When I poured the slab for the original shop, Dec. '90 it
rained every weekend day until April. I got so frustrated, I framed
it one weekend in the rain.

Farmers around here will thank me.

Yep ... that's _exactly_ why it's raining here. I've been waiting to pour a
foundation on a new housing start for three weeks! The rain will just not
let up.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

eclipsme wrote:

15 years later, I remarried - this time to a nice southern girl.

So now I have a new house, my workshop is in the garage, and I have the
biggest window ac I could fit!

As Borat would say, "very nice!"

Harvey

When you are married to a nice southern girl, you NEED air conditioning.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The key to flexibility is indecision.

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:27:06 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:55:50 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

Mississippi in the summer. High heat. High humidity. No AC. It's
not supposed to be that way?

I saw the biggest bug I've _EVER_ seen in MS.

Back in my sound guy daze, I was working for one night in Jackson, MS.
The grand opening of the North-something mall, with Beatlemania.
After the show, we went to some bar where people could drive boats
right in. I could just imagine people drowning in the place and not
being found until the next morning.

There was a beetle the size of a 33 1/3 record or Frisbee (At least it
looked that big to ME!) walking across the parking lot at us. I ran
the other way! G

Sure it wasn't one of our famous flying tree roaches. They're
impressive.

There are two types of people in Mississippi, particularly Jackson and
south. Those that admit they have roaches in their house, and those
that lie about it.

Frank
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 22:32:53 -0400, "Allen Roy"
wrote:


"
SUNY Corning

Please explain. I hope you don't mean Corning,NY

Sure!

Years back, I did some shows there.

One of the memorable trips through Corning that can be shared in a
public forum happened during a "Celebration Weekend".

The Dean's wife decided to have an "interpretive" theatre directly
under the gym where I was hired to work. I can't remember who the
band was, possibly the Ramones, Squeeze, Talking Heads, or The
Bosstones. Anyhow... we had 60-70,000 watts on the PA, including
Servodrive subwoofers, and a packed, enthusiastic house of maybe
5,000. The subwoofer cluster was directly over the "theatre", which I
believe was normally a wrestling room. Throughout the day, I
pointed out the bad location of the "theatre", and the conflicts that
would surely arise to anyone who would listen. No one listens to the
long hairs...

I then spent the entire 90 minute set arguing with the Dean, and then
his porky wife, while trying to mix. We argued over the fact that it
was now SNOWING chunks of suspended ceiling material on the theatre,
the gel frames were falling out of the lights, and the actors couldn't
be heard. Also, the perfectly rectangular room below us resonated
severely ~ 40 Hz, so every time the band held certain notes, the room
would become unbearable. He wanted to stop the show so the 10 people
in the room (including his uber-po'd wife G) below could put on
their 2-hour performance.

I also got a ridiculous speeding ticket in Alfred, and saw a drunken
Sasquatch kick down all the stalls in a hillbilly bar.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 07:10:43 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

Sure it wasn't one of our famous flying tree roaches. They're
impressive.

I've flown smaller radio control airplanes.

That thing freaked me out! G

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Unquestionably Confused wrote:
SNIPPAGE

Old maxim: You can always put on enough to stay warm...
You may not be able to move, but you can get warm


but can never take off enough to keep cool!

TMI!!! TMI!!!


Wayne

B A R R Y wrote:
SNIPPAGE

I saw the biggest bug I've _EVER_ seen in MS.


When I was in New Orleans once many many years ago, I saw some guys
skateboarding down the sidewalk. As they got closer I saw that they weren't
skateboarding at all. They were just riding the backs of cockroaches.

Wayne

Stoutman wrote:

| To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!
|
| Sweaty in High Point.

Going as fast as I can on a completely solar-powered air conditioner -
perhaps by next summer or the summer after...

Wish me luck! (It's sweaty here in Iowa, too.)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/StirlingProject.html

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:02:33 -0700, Steve wrote:


Steve.. Because my shop is indoors in a new house, it probably won't help you
much, but here goes..

Good part:

Because my wife is a LOT smarter than I am, we (ok, she) decided that instead of
the shop being in a detached garage, it would be a large room IN the house...

The house is built of "Dura Wall", which is sort of like cinder block but made
of cement and foam, and in larger blocks.. it's a very good insulation..
The ceiling is layered, from the top down, with cement, foam (6"), cement and
foam..
The windows and door glass are double pane and the mini splits (4 total) were
installed by the builder and Trane..

Not so good part:

Because part of why we moved to Baja is the Sea of Cortez, the shop has three 5'
x 4' windows and a set of multi-pane french doors, with 2 windows facing the
sea.. (East)
What we didn't factor in was the morning sun.... The West side of the house has
few windows and a veranda to for shade, because we did figure that the afternoon
sun would be very hot..
I've had to put roll down plastic shades (the kind like they tint car windows
with) on the windows and make sure that I put them down by 6 am or the shop gets
VERY warm...

Mexican contractors trying to build gringo style houses seem to have a lot of
trouble getting things like door and window opening square and getting a good
fit for the aluminum windows... lots of gaps and binds and tons of silicon,
their solution to a loose fit... heat and wind DOES get in...

9' ceilings are very nice in a shop, but trap a lot of hot air.. need to install
a bathroom type vent high on a wall, I think..

Hope something in there helped..

mac davis wrote:


I've got a 2 ton "mini split" in the shop, and only a 22 x 18' area to cool, so
it works pretty well, until manual labor is involved...


Is your shop insulated? I've been thinking about installing a
mini-split in my shop, which is also my garage. It's approx 22 x 30,
but seems to be insulated, because it resists heating up on hot days
pretty well - better than the garage in the old house, which heated up
fast and stayed that way, even after I installed foam panels in the
garage door two years ago. I had a 12000-BTU window-type AC that managed
to keep the shop down to 85 F on hot days - not quite good enough for
this fat old guitar builder. :-(

Anyway, I was considering a 1.5-ton unit, but based on your comment I'm
thinking I'd better get the 2-ton unit.

Also, did you install it yourself, or did you have an AC contractor do it?

--Steve


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:05:07 -0700, LesT wrote:

On Jul 7, 12:02 pm, Steve wrote:

Actually, you can have TOO large an air conditioner. If the unit is
too big, it'll cool down to your set temperature is so short a time
that it doesn't get a chance to remove the humidity. I think my AC
is just on the edge of too big, because on some days it is cool
but a little clammy.

Just my 2 cents...

Les

I've had that problem, Les...

The AC unit doesn't shut of, though, the fan stays on, which helps a bit..

On a few very wet days, I've used the DRY setting, but I understand that it
doubles the electricity usage because you're running both the heat and AC?

Works very well, though...

BTW: water is, of course, rationed here, so I have a gallon pail under the drain
pipe outside the shop..
Set at 30 C, it fills the pail about once an hour and that waters most of the
plants and keeps the wife's fountain full..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:55:50 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:51:43 -0400, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

To all of in an air-conditioned shop: YOU SUCK!!!

Sweaty in High Point.


Mississippi in the summer. High heat. High humidity. No AC. It's
not supposed to be that way?

Frank

Yep... if you're bending wood and don't have a steam chamber...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 19:25:51 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:


Box fan in a window, ceiling fan, lots of shade trees, I get by fine.

Frank... Our contractor was going to put 2 ceiling fans in the shop, but I went
for more ceiling outlets instead...
My feeling was that the ceiling fans would blow dust and crap all over the shop
and hamper the flow of the jet filter..

Do you run it in reverse to avoid that, or what?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:35:18 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 19:25:51 -0500, Frank Boettcher
wrote:


Box fan in a window, ceiling fan, lots of shade trees, I get by fine.

Frank... Our contractor was going to put 2 ceiling fans in the shop, but I went
for more ceiling outlets instead...
My feeling was that the ceiling fans would blow dust and crap all over the shop
and hamper the flow of the jet filter..

Do you run it in reverse to avoid that, or what?

No I run it in forward and it (dust blowing) hasn't been a problem.
My shop has a vaulted ceiling with a four foot wide flat at the top.

I was worried about the same thing, but when remodeling left me with
one surplus ceiling fan I decided to put it up. I prewired the boxes
in the ceiling when I built the shop, anticipating a couple of air
cleaners. Ended up with one air cleaner and the ceiling fan. If they
fight each other I haven't noticed it. The air cleaner pre-filter
seems to load up just as fast as it did without the ceiling fan.

Frank


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Gerald Ross wrote:
eclipsme wrote:

15 years later, I remarried - this time to a nice southern girl.
So now I have a new house, my workshop is in the garage, and I have
the biggest window ac I could fit!

As Borat would say, "very nice!"

Harvey

When you are married to a nice southern girl, you NEED air conditioning.

lol! That's a fact.

Harvey

Mac;

Thanks for the details - yes it does help to understand the context.

We're in the middle of moving into this house, and I'm working on
getting the workshop set up - it's great to be able to start from
scratch and design the layout and set up a real dust collection system
this time. I've also ordered an air filtration system (the $189
Grizzly) to hang in there

The house is three years old, and seems to be very well insulated - even
the attached garage, in which I'm using one of the three bays as my
principal workshop area. The garage ceiling is 11 ft, and the whole
garage is dry-walled on the inside, with stucco on the exterior walls
and concrete tile on the roof.

We've had some pretty hot weather already, but this garage seems to be
slow to get hot inside - the only day it was unbearably hot in there was
when the outside temp hit 108 F earlier this week. On cooler days (in
the 90's) last weekend I was able to work on setting up the shop with a
large oscillating fan to keep me from getting overheated.

But once I get back into some serious guitar-building, I'm gonna need to
air-condition this space, and a mini-split system seems to be the way to
go. I tried a 12000-BTU window-type in the old garage, and it was just
not up to the job - it could do no better than to maintain the temp in
the low-to-mid 80's.

--Steve