I am wishing my American friends a joyful, over-fed lazy day in your
back-yards, at your pools, making burnt offerings on you BBQ's.

My sister, my 3 nieces and one nephew, with their children are all
celebrating a day off, with pay.
I sure enjoyed Canada Day, just this last Sunday.

I also reflected on my freedom being eroded, bit by bit.
I also reflected on my friends' freedoms, south of the border, being
taken away from them by leaps and bounds.

When will you guys have a press again which isn't afraid to tell the
truth? One that isn't owned by GE or Time Warner? One that isn't
bamboozled into being political shills for the election-campaign
contributors?

Libby (Liebowitz) being 'excused' was another example of the
pre-Iranian-invasion arrogance, rivaling the 1936 mood in pre-WW2 Europe.

You see, Bush doesn't give a ****.
He knows that nobody has any balls left to stand up to him and his
power-grab. He's laughing at all of you: Dem's and GOP's alike.
Don't expect any changes on 2008... there likely won't BE any elections
anyway.

Have a nice day...especially when you're singing about the rockets' red
glare.

r---- who is shaking his head in disbelief.

On Jul 3, 2:16 pm, Robatoy wrote:
I am wishing my American friends a joyful, over-fed lazy day in your
back-yards, at your pools, making burnt offerings on you BBQ's.

My sister, my 3 nieces and one nephew, with their children are all
celebrating a day off, with pay.
I sure enjoyed Canada Day, just this last Sunday.

I also reflected on my freedom being eroded, bit by bit.
I also reflected on my friends' freedoms, south of the border, being
taken away from them by leaps and bounds.

When will you guys have a press again which isn't afraid to tell the
truth? One that isn't owned by GE or Time Warner? One that isn't
bamboozled into being political shills for the election-campaign
contributors?

Libby (Liebowitz) being 'excused' was another example of the
pre-Iranian-invasion arrogance, rivaling the 1936 mood in pre-WW2 Europe.

You see, Bush doesn't give a ****.
He knows that nobody has any balls left to stand up to him and his
power-grab. He's laughing at all of you: Dem's and GOP's alike.
Don't expect any changes on 2008... there likely won't BE any elections
anyway.

Have a nice day...especially when you're singing about the rockets' red
glare.

r---- who is shaking his head in disbelief.

As am I - at your post.

Your views on politics are your own - many share them. Nonetheless, I
don't see the benefit in sucking people into your political post on
the pretense of a holiday greeting. That's simply poor manners. And
yes, I do expect more from you.

Can we look forward to your post around Christmas time when you stir
up things about religion?

R

Robatoy wrote in news:design-51996A.14160203072007
@news.giganews.com:

I am wishing my American friends a joyful, over-fed lazy day in your
back-yards, at your pools, making burnt offerings on you BBQ's.

snip of some depressing views of current reality

Thank you for the greetings, friend.

I, too, find that I cannot stomach the evening news, and so I ignore it as
far as possible.

Somehow, I find it to ever have been so - that there are those who grab
power, and refuse, or try to refuse, to give it back.

Will it improve? I don't know. Over time, things have improved, if viewed
with sufficient perspective. My kids and grandkids have a chore in front
of them. But then, so did my parents and grandparents.

But we will enjoy the Fourth here in California, hoping that we don't start
another massive fire with the pyrotechnics!

To the beach this afternoon!

Patriarch

Patriarch wrote:

I, too, find that I cannot stomach the evening news, and so I
ignore it as
far as possible.

Last night was a rerun on the Tonight Show, but still interesting.

Had Miss America of 1944, a no nonsense woman from Kentucky, on the show.

Leno, in the process of interviewing her, asked her opinion of Bush.

Here response was along the lines of, "Spoiled rich brat who ought to
be turned over somebody's knee and spanked".

Didn't think much of the bunch running in 2008 either.

Somehow, doesn't surprise me.

This is also a gal who knows how to shoot out a tire to keep some
thieves from getting away while waiting for the sheriff to arrive.

Lew

Now, now r, don't hold us hostage for our idiots. I am a fiscal
conservative, but hat doesn't mean that I agree with GW or his
politics.

And as far as Libby goes, he didn't out the now "glamorous" Ms.
Plame who now has an agent, a book deal and a possible movie in the
works. BUT, he DID break the laws he was convicted of, so he should
do his part in the can. He was duly tried, duly convicted, and so it
should be adios to his ass.

However, like many here, we weren't asked. My phone never rang once
nor did the phones of the yardbirds I hang with. This commutation was
done without my council or approval. NO ONE I KNOW approves of this
commutation.

These things happen when our leaders have little or no sense of
integrity or value. I submit the our current and last presidents as
great examples of that. Look at the people our last old horn dog pres
pardoned completely on his last day... inexcusable.

But we elected them, right or wrong. So we bear the full
responsibility of what we did.

But good sir, you may indeed not be far behind:

http://tinyurl.com/2ordrd

When others know more about how your country works than you do, when
the standards and laws that govern your country are not known by their
natural citizens, it becomes a breeding ground for the disease that
rules US politics.

Good luck!

Robert

(Who is so glad he didn't post anything deliberately critical or
inflammatory about Canada on her fine day of national pride)

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:16:02 -0400, Robatoy
wrote:

You see, Bush doesn't give a ****.
He knows that nobody has any balls left to stand up to him and his
power-grab. He's laughing at all of you: Dem's and GOP's alike.
Don't expect any changes on 2008... there likely won't BE any elections
anyway.

Suspending the constitution would require military support, Rumsfeld's
arrogance made sure that Bush only gets "official" military support
due his office. Your press is as skewed as ours remember.

Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618

On Jul 3, 2:32 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 3, 2:16 pm, Robatoy wrote:



I am wishing my American friends a joyful, over-fed lazy day in your
back-yards, at your pools, making burnt offerings on you BBQ's.

My sister, my 3 nieces and one nephew, with their children are all
celebrating a day off, with pay.
I sure enjoyed Canada Day, just this last Sunday.

I also reflected on my freedom being eroded, bit by bit.
I also reflected on my friends' freedoms, south of the border, being
taken away from them by leaps and bounds.

When will you guys have a press again which isn't afraid to tell the
truth? One that isn't owned by GE or Time Warner? One that isn't
bamboozled into being political shills for the election-campaign
contributors?

Libby (Liebowitz) being 'excused' was another example of the
pre-Iranian-invasion arrogance, rivaling the 1936 mood in pre-WW2 Europe.

You see, Bush doesn't give a ****.
He knows that nobody has any balls left to stand up to him and his
power-grab. He's laughing at all of you: Dem's and GOP's alike.
Don't expect any changes on 2008... there likely won't BE any elections
anyway.

Have a nice day...especially when you're singing about the rockets' red
glare.

r---- who is shaking his head in disbelief.

As am I - at your post.

Your views on politics are your own - many share them. Nonetheless, I
don't see the benefit in sucking people into your political post on
the pretense of a holiday greeting.

Goodness...gracious... are you guys now taught to turn over any and
all rocks?
"It's a TRAP!!!" Rob wishes us a happy holiday...and uses it as a
diversion to stick a needle into us!!!! See how fricking paranoid you
have become??

That's simply poor manners. And
yes, I do expect more from you.

See above.

Can we look forward to your post around Christmas time when you stir
up things about religion?

Now you're being silly.

R

r

On Jul 3, 5:09 pm, "
wrote:
Now, now r, don't hold us hostage for our idiots. I am a fiscal
conservative, but hat doesn't mean that I agree with GW or his
politics.

And as far as Libby goes, he didn't out the now "glamorous" Ms.
Plame who now has an agent, a book deal and a possible movie in the
works. BUT, he DID break the laws he was convicted of, so he should
do his part in the can. He was duly tried, duly convicted, and so it
should be adios to his ass.

How 'Coulter' of you.

However, like many here, we weren't asked.

THAT is SO ****ing lame!!!
What happened to the fire in the belly? Doesn't it drive you wild to
know that you, as a US citizen are being hijacked?

These things happen when our leaders have little or no sense of
integrity or value. I submit the our current and last presidents as
great examples of that. Look at the people our last old horn dog pres
pardoned completely on his last day... inexcusable.

But we elected them, right or wrong. So we bear the full
responsibility of what we did.

But good sir, you may indeed not be far behind:

http://tinyurl.com/2ordrd

Nothing, quite like a South African wild-cat blog to make your case,
eh?


When others know more about how your country works than you do, when
the standards and laws that govern your country are not known by their
natural citizens, it becomes a breeding ground for the disease that
rules US politics.

Good luck!

Robert

(Who is so glad he didn't post anything deliberately critical or
inflammatory about Canada on her fine day of national pride)

Again... you kidding me? You are new around here? I have been all
over Canadian boards expressing great concerns about falling into the
same trtap you already have.
You are being ruled by a dictator, Robert.
DO something!

On Jul 3, 6:51 pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jul 3, 2:32 pm, RicodJour wrote:

Have a nice day...especially when you're singing about the rockets' red
glare.

r---- who is shaking his head in disbelief.

As am I - at your post.

Your views on politics are your own - many share them. Nonetheless, I
don't see the benefit in sucking people into your political post on
the pretense of a holiday greeting.

Goodness...gracious... are you guys now taught to turn over any and
all rocks?
"It's a TRAP!!!" Rob wishes us a happy holiday...and uses it as a
diversion to stick a needle into us!!!! See how fricking paranoid you
have become??

Paranoid? Try annoyed, and more than a little surprised that it's
_you_ doing the annoying.

As if there's not enough crap going on in the news, you decide to make
a stupid post (yes, it's stupid, more on that later) with a feel-good
subject line. There's nothing wrong with venting, but there's a time
and a place. You picked a bad one.

That's simply poor manners. And
yes, I do expect more from you.

See above.

See below.

Can we look forward to your post around Christmas time when you stir
up things about religion?

Now you're being silly.

Am I? How can I tell? Roba, you took a page from a spammer and
pulled a bait-and-switch. I don't like that when some random schmuck
does that, and, sorry to break it to you, but I hold you in higher
regard than some random schmuck. It still annoyed me. You vented, so
suck it up a moment and let me vent about your venting.

Here's a notice for you: _nobody_ likes how things are going at the
moment. No one's happy, no one's snapping their fingers and whistling
about current events and the current administration. Not
conservatives, not liberals, not democrats, not republicans. It's
being handled badly. You're writing **** like it's news to people.
It's not. People voted for Bush - almost most did anyhow - and now
we're stuck with him. So unless you're going to offer to take one for
the team and take him out of action, why not show some of the good
graces you were taught as a child and allow some measure of happiness
to remain unadulterated by the political bull****. It's not really
asking a lot.

To sum it up - your timing sucks and your advertising ethics need some
work. I still think you're a regular guy who was just venting - just
like me.

R

On Jul 3, 6:57 pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jul 3, 5:09 pm, "
wrote:

(Who is so glad he didn't post anything deliberately critical or
inflammatory about Canada on her fine day of national pride)

^ Those are the sentiments of a person who understands timing and good
graces. Even if Canada slipped up and made the news in a negative way
for some reason, I wouldn't **** on your shoes on Canada Day.

Again... you kidding me? You are new around here? I have been all
over Canadian boards expressing great concerns about falling into the
same trtap you already have.
You are being ruled by a dictator, Robert.
DO something!

OK, Patrick Henry, what do you suggest? Armed revolt? In case you
haven't been paying attention, it's generally acknowledged to be a
good thing to have something of a plan _before_ you invade a country -
even your own. So step up, let's have it with your plan. The one
that is not going to make a far bigger mess than it already is. I'm
all ears...well, eyes. Let's just say I'm open to suggestions.

I'm not open to suggestions that would cause such turmoil in the US
that it would destabilize the world. Canada would be sucked under in
probably the second or third wave, as you have more resources than you
use and not enough people or deterrents to defend them. Unless, of
course, you've secretly achieved nuclear capability. We wouldn't want
to do it, we'd have to do it. It'd be for you own good, and well,
we'd get cheaper wood.

R

On Jul 3, 5:57 pm, Robatoy wrote:

How 'Coulter' of you.


Now that's probably the nastiest thing anyone has said here in a long
time. But I guess if we are digressing into simple name calling, go
for the nuts, eh?


However, like many here, we weren't asked.

THAT is SO ****ing lame!!!
What happened to the fire in the belly? Doesn't it drive you wild to know that you, as a US citizen are being hijacked?

Sure, it bothers me a lot. But I cannot figure out why US politics is
such an obsession with you. Are you this vitriolic with the Canadian
politics as well? Did you pass a not-so-sly post to your fellow
country men about your distaste for Canadian leadership? Hope so.


Nothing, quite like a South African wild-cat blog to make your case, eh?

Another link with references for your perusal. NZ may not rate with
you either, but it was afterall, a Canadian study.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4115694a12.html

By this group:

http://www.dominion.ca/

Sorry the first reference wasn't up to standards. The second
reference was Canadian, so I hope that one clears the fence.

Again... you kidding me? You are new around here? I have been all over Canadian boards expressing great concerns about falling into the same trtap you already have.

I don't really have time to peruse all the newsgroups, a couple here
and there, but sadly none of them Canadian boards. (BBQ and
woodturning, but both have Canadian participants, especially the
turning ng). So in this case I have missed your efforts to awaken the
Canadian citizenry to the trap of becoming Americans.

I usually feel like the political discussions should be on the
political forums, complete with name calling, finger pointing, and
self righteous pontifications that rule those roosts.

You are being ruled by a dictator, Robert.
DO something!

Any suggestions? I vote, a help with the election precent in my area
as does my main employee, encourage our employees to vote, and try to
make informed decisions about our politics.

I think you are taking for granted the fact that since no one (as of
yet) has taken up the call to join in with you to **** on America,
that we are all happy with everything that goes on.

Maybe for many they prefer this as a woodworking site and just don't
see it as political venue.

I think too, many of us Americans are just numb. NO ONE likes us. NO
ONE likes what we do. Our politicians swing the sword of self
righteous indignation towrds whomever disagrees with them on any
issue. People of color clamor that rights have been violated when
they get traffic tickets. Special interest groups, lobbies,
organizations, all scream about the fact they are ignored.

Me, I'm just overloaded with it all.

Maybe you could start your own PAC and get 'er done. Sounds to me
like you have plenty of fire for quite a few.

Robert

RicodJour wrote:

Here's a notice for you: _nobody_ likes how things are going at the
moment. No one's happy, no one's snapping their fingers and whistling
about current events and the current administration. Not
conservatives, not liberals, not democrats, not republicans.

When the Republicans take back their party from the FISH ****S, there
will at least be hope.

As was said about the late Jerry Falwell and his moral majority, it
is/was neither.

Demagogy in the name of religion and politics not only don't mix, they
don't even coexist very well.

Lew

Robatoy wrote:

| I am wishing my American friends a joyful, over-fed lazy day in your
| back-yards, at your pools, making burnt offerings on you BBQ's.

Thanks for your good wishes.

| My sister, my 3 nieces and one nephew, with their children are all
| celebrating a day off, with pay.
| I sure enjoyed Canada Day, just this last Sunday.
|
| I also reflected on my freedom being eroded, bit by bit.
| I also reflected on my friends' freedoms, south of the border, being
| taken away from them by leaps and bounds.

It sounds like it might be worth reminding you that freedom comes from
within. It can neither be given nor taken by someone else. May you
always have the courage to say "No" and /mean/ it - and may you have a
life filled with joyful affirmation.

| When will you guys have a press again which isn't afraid to tell the
| truth? One that isn't owned by GE or Time Warner? One that isn't
| bamboozled into being political shills for the election-campaign
| contributors?

Who knows - true courage has never been in oversupply. "pork barrel",
"pandering", "influence peddling", and "favor seeking" aren't new
concepts. You talk as if these problems were new - they're not.

| Libby (Liebowitz) being 'excused' was another example of the
| pre-Iranian-invasion arrogance, rivaling the 1936 mood in pre-WW2
| Europe.

Is this news in Canukistan? You're a bit behind the curve on this one.
Commutation for Scooter isn't the real scandal, it'll be the last
minute pardon for Shooter.

| You see, Bush doesn't give a ****.
| He knows that nobody has any balls left to stand up to him and his
| power-grab. He's laughing at all of you: Dem's and GOP's alike.
| Don't expect any changes on 2008... there likely won't BE any
| elections anyway.

Now you're talking nonsense, and you're selling your friends short -
very short indeed.

| Have a nice day...especially when you're singing about the rockets'
| red glare.

Heh! If I were to sing, then you'd best be glad that I'm not where you
can hear me :-D

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:16:02 -0400, Robatoy
wrote:

snip
Libby (Liebowitz) being 'excused'

This is a mockery of the US judicial system. Can't believe a
president would do this. Reminds me of the OJ Simpson trial.

No fireworks here. The city forgot to get a state-certified
pyrotechnics engineer so the traditional 10pm display had to be
cancelled. But, I'm looking forward to the backyard BBQ and beer.
Happy 4th to all.

On Jul 3, 8:07 pm, "
wrote:
On Jul 3, 5:57 pm, Robatoy wrote:



How 'Coulter' of you.

Now that's probably the nastiest thing anyone has said here in a long
time. But I guess if we are digressing into simple name calling, go
for the nuts, eh?

Okay. That was over the line. My sincere apologies, and I mean that.
'Coulterish'? Coulteresque?... still ugly. I'm sorry.


Sure, it bothers me a lot. But I cannot figure out why US politics is
such an obsession with you.

You don't think that hegemony, nation building and resource theft
(oil, lumber, fresh water, natural gas) will affect us Canadians? My
parents watched over the fence as Germany became fascist. That didn't
end well, did it?

Are you this vitriolic with the Canadian
politics as well? Did you pass a not-so-sly post to your fellow
country men about your distaste for Canadian leadership? Hope so.

Oh yessss. Our PM is called Bush-Lite around here. Same kind of
arrogance... but with a blue beret.

"Robatoy" wrote in message

Libby (Liebowitz) being 'excused' was another example of the
pre-Iranian-invasion arrogance, rivaling the 1936 mood in pre-WW2 Europe.

Nothing new under the sun ... Bush has a way to go (but he still has time).
In the Presidential Pardon game you can be verily judged by the sleaze bags
you "excuse".

Here's Clinton's in just his last few days:

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm

Some perspective:

George Washington16
John Adams21
Thomas Jefferson119
James Madison196
James Monroe419
John Quincy Adams183
Andrew Jackson386
Martin Van Buren168
William H. Harrison0
John Tyler209
James K. Polk268
Zachary Taylor38
Millard Fillmore170
Franklin Pierce142
James Buchanan150
Abraham Lincoln343
Andrew Johnson654
Ulysses S. Grant1332
Rutherford B. Hayes893
James Garfield0
Chester Arthur337
Grover Cleveland *1107
Benjamin Harrison613
William McKinley *918
Theodore Roosevelt *981
William H. Taft758
Woodrow Wilson2480
Warren G. Harding800
Calvin Coolidge1545
Herbert Hoover1385
Franklin D. Roosevelt3687
Harry S. Truman2044
Dwight D. Eisenhower1157
John F. Kennedy575
Lyndon B. Johnson1187
Richard Nixon926
Gerald Ford409
Jimmy Carter566
Ronald Reagan406
George Bush77
Bill Clinton456

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jul 3, 9:01 pm, Robatoy wrote:

Oh yessss. Our PM is called Bush-Lite around here. Same kind of arrogance... but with a blue beret.

Hmmm.... well, OK. So tell me... so with your call to action for your
neighbors, what are you doing about it there?

Inquiring minds, you know.

Robert

On Jul 3, 1:16 pm, Robatoy wrote:
I am wishing my American friends a joyful, over-fed lazy day in your
back-yards, at your pools, making burnt offerings on you BBQ's.

....

r---- who is shaking his head in disbelief.

when you know enough to shut up, find a willing audience.

On Jul 4, 3:07 am, wrote:


when you know enough to shut up, find a willing audience.

Clever..verrrry clever....

wrote in message

. This commutation was
done without my council or approval. NO ONE I KNOW approves of this
commutation.

It was done to give the Democrats an opportunity to make a self righteous
statement of how good they are. Do you think Clinton would have let his guy
hang under the same circumstances? Or any politician, for that matter.
Anyone that was surprised by the pardon is too naive to be allowed to vote
in the next election.

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:00:37 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote in message

. This commutation was
done without my council or approval. NO ONE I KNOW approves of this
commutation.

It was done to give the Democrats an opportunity to make a self righteous
statement of how good they are. Do you think Clinton would have let his guy
hang under the same circumstances? Or any politician, for that matter.
Anyone that was surprised by the pardon is too naive to be allowed to vote
in the next election.


This has very little to do with party. I am saddened about Bush's
commutation, which is a bit more serious than a Whitehouse blowjob.

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 22:13:21 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

Libby (Liebowitz) being 'excused' was another example of the
pre-Iranian-invasion arrogance, rivaling the 1936 mood in pre-WW2 Europe.

Nothing new under the sun ... Bush has a way to go (but he still has time).

I contend that this is new.
How may presidents in your list commuted the sentence of someone who
was supposed to go to jail within a matter of days after being denied
bail while awaiting an appeal?
My guess is none of them.
How many presidents in your list pardoned (or commuted the sentence
of) someone who's case was still active and under appeal?
My guess is none of them.
Libby's crime is fairly minor compared to those committed by some who
have been pardoned by previous presidents. The problem is that the
way it was handled (and the timing) makes some of us believe that this
is simply another instance of the President protecting his
administration and his Vice President. I think it has very little to
do with Libby.
Everyone expected Libby would be pardoned. I guess we just thought
GW would be a little more subtle about it.

In the Presidential Pardon game you can be verily judged by the sleaze bags
you "excuse".

Sadly, Dubya's pardon list may actually be the highlight of his
administration!


Mike O.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. net...

wrote in message

. This commutation was
done without my council or approval. NO ONE I KNOW approves of this
commutation.

It was done to give the Democrats an opportunity to make a self righteous
statement of how good they are. Do you think Clinton would have let his
guy hang under the same circumstances?

Actually, Clinton did not have the B alls to do it until just before he left
office. He let loads of people go.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:00:37 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


This has very little to do with party. I am saddened about Bush's
commutation, which is a bit more serious than a Whitehouse blowjob.

Is this pardon in this case more serious than "all the pardons" Clinton gave
at the end of his second term?

"Mike O." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 22:13:21 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

Libby (Liebowitz) being 'excused' was another example of the
pre-Iranian-invasion arrogance, rivaling the 1936 mood in pre-WW2
Europe.

Nothing new under the sun ... Bush has a way to go (but he still has
time).

I contend that this is new.
How may presidents in your list commuted the sentence of someone who
was supposed to go to jail within a matter of days after being denied
bail while awaiting an appeal?

Hard to say but it took balls to do so. The political fall out was probably
not a factor as it was in the others. I assure you that the other pardons
would have taken place immediately had there been no chance of political
repercutions.

On Jul 4, 1:16 pm, "Leon" wrote:

repercutions.

Is that when they electrocute someone twice?

R

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

Anyone that was surprised by the pardon is too naive to be allowed to vote
in the next election.

LOL ... how true, how true. But obviously good for a whole ****load of self
righteous indignation!


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jul 4, 1:16 pm, "Leon" wrote:


Hard to say but it took balls to do so. [snipfered]

Naaa. Libby made it known that if he was going to do time, he'd blow
the whistle on who really outed Plame. He threw himself on a rubber
sword for his boss, but he refused to do time for it.
That $ 250K fine will be 'handled' via a book deal from one of the GOP
'contributing' news corps.

Balls had nothing to do with it, IMHO.

Mike O. wrote:

I contend that this is new.

You would be wrong.

How may presidents in your list commuted the sentence of someone who
was supposed to go to jail within a matter of days after being denied
bail while awaiting an appeal?

Andrew Johnson pardoned 1.4 million Confederate soldiers.

My guess is none of them.
How many presidents in your list pardoned (or commuted the sentence
of) someone who's case was still active and under appeal?
My guess is none of them.

Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich and Pincus Green, both fugitives.

Mike O. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 22:13:21 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

Libby (Liebowitz) being 'excused' was another example of the
pre-Iranian-invasion arrogance, rivaling the 1936 mood in pre-WW2 Europe.
Nothing new under the sun ... Bush has a way to go (but he still has time).

I contend that this is new.
How may presidents in your list commuted the sentence of someone who
was supposed to go to jail within a matter of days after being denied
bail while awaiting an appeal?
My guess is none of them.
How many presidents in your list pardoned (or commuted the sentence
of) someone who's case was still active and under appeal?
My guess is none of them.


Who was the financier who got the pardon from Clinton in the waning days
of his presidency? He was hiding out in Switzerland, I think, and much
ado was made of all the contributions made to Clinton "by his wife."
Hadn't gotten to the point of appeal, I don't think. Then again, maybe
he'd fled the country before sentencing. Either way, that should count
for a low point in the overall scheme of things, no?


Libby's crime is fairly minor compared to those committed by some who
have been pardoned by previous presidents. The problem is that the
way it was handled (and the timing) makes some of us believe that this
is simply another instance of the President protecting his
administration and his Vice President. I think it has very little to
do with Libby.

True. Also, Libby's sentence was far harsher for his crime than was
that of the Clinton insider, bit of old-timer's here and I can't
remember the name. Far more serious crime than what Libby was
accused/convicted of and he received a pat on the fanny and "shame,
shame" and that was it. The Dems were okay with that and yet even
before the commutation of Libby's sentence they were screaming he hadn't
been punished enough.

Screw them all. Republicans AND Democrats. A bunch of a**hole
hypocrites the best part of which dribbled down their father's leg.


Everyone expected Libby would be pardoned. I guess we just thought
GW would be a little more subtle about it.

I don't doubt that it WILL happen, but let's not put the cart before the
horse. All that's been done thus far is commutation of the prison
sentence. He doesn't go to jail but he is STILL a convicted felon.

In article , "HeyBub" wrote:
Mike O. wrote:

I contend that this is new.

You would be wrong.

How may presidents in your list commuted the sentence of someone who
was supposed to go to jail within a matter of days after being denied
bail while awaiting an appeal?

Andrew Johnson pardoned 1.4 million Confederate soldiers.

My guess is none of them.
How many presidents in your list pardoned (or commuted the sentence
of) someone who's case was still active and under appeal?
My guess is none of them.

Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich and Pincus Green, both fugitives.

And sixteen Puerto Rican terrorists. And his younger brother Roger, a
convicted cocaine dealer.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 4, 1:16 pm, "Leon" wrote:

repercutions.

Is that when they electrocute someone twice?

R


YES ~)

On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:06:44 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

Actually, Clinton did not have the B alls to do it until just before he left
office. He let loads of people go.

I thought he just let loads go on people. G

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Jul 4, 7:19 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:06:44 -0500, "Leon"

wrote:
Actually, Clinton did not have the B alls to do it until just before he left
office. He let loads of people go.

I thought he just let loads go on people. G


Wearin' her perfume, Chanel No. 5
Got to be the finest girl alive
She walks real cool, catches everybody's eye
She's got such good lovin' that they can't say goodbye
Not too skinny, she's not too fat
She's a real humdinger and I like it like that
She's the devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress,
Devil with the blue dress on
Devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress,
Devil with the blue dress on

Robatoy wrote:

Oh yessss. Our PM is called Bush-Lite around here. Same kind of
arrogance... but with a blue beret.


Is he British? :-))))))




--
I'm not not at the above address.
http://nmwoodworks.com


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Robatoy wrote:
On Jul 4, 1:16 pm, "Leon" wrote:


Hard to say but it took balls to do so. [snipfered]

Naaa. Libby made it known that if he was going to do time, he'd blow
the whistle on who really outed Plame. He threw himself on a rubber
sword for his boss, but he refused to do time for it.
That $ 250K fine will be 'handled' via a book deal from one of the GOP
'contributing' news corps.

Balls had nothing to do with it, IMHO.

If your gonna rant over U.S. politics at least bother to get a few facts
correct......Richard Lee Armitage (State department) was the "guilty" or
leaking party.......he was not charged with any crime, as apparently he was
not aware that Plame might have had covert status. The abbreviated version
has Libby committing perjury because he said he had learned of Plames
identity from Tim Russert where-as the prosecutor thought he had learned it
from Cheney. Incidentally Libby by position has full rights to know or
discuss Plame's CIA position just not publicly.

Novak the original reporter to "spill the Plame beans" has subsequently and
clearly stated that Armitage was his source.........Oddly from the early get
go, the prosecutor knew the facts including Armitage's role...... The "why"
of the wide net investigation, to find out what he already knew deserves a
answer.

The jury did not think Libby had his facts strait and he was convicted for
his confusion deliberate or otherwise.... do you remember every conversation
verbatim and in order that you have had in the last 6 months? Bush
exercising his unquestionable constitutional right at pardons and/or
commuting sentences simply did his job as he saw fit.....However there is no
rubber sword to fall on ....Armitage leaked the friggin story......


If you know how to read the following can spell it out the short version for
you.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair

Rod

On Jul 5, 5:48 am, "Rod & Betty Jo" wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
On Jul 4, 1:16 pm, "Leon" wrote:

Hard to say but it took balls to do so. [snipfered]

Naaa. Libby made it known that if he was going to do time, he'd blow
the whistle on who really outed Plame. He threw himself on a rubber
sword for his boss, but he refused to do time for it.
That $ 250K fine will be 'handled' via a book deal from one of the GOP
'contributing' news corps.

Balls had nothing to do with it, IMHO.

If your gonna rant over U.S. politics at least bother to get a few facts
correct......[snipped]

If you know how to read the following can spell it out the short version for
you.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair

Don't even THINK of trying to swifboat me, especially with a source as
feeble as Wiki.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Don't even THINK of trying to swifboat me, especially with a source as
feeble as Wiki.


At least you understand the actual "swift boat" concept......i.e. the truth.
Incidentally it wouldn't take 5 minutes using none wiki sources to find that
Armitage indeed outed Plame thus completely dispelling your dopey "fall on
the sword" summation.....But truth and ranters rarely meet, its not
convenientG.....Rod

On Jul 5, 2:06 pm, "Rod & Betty Jo" wrote:

At least you understand the actual "swift boat" concept......i.e. the truth.
Incidentally it wouldn't take 5 minutes using none wiki sources to find that
Armitage indeed outed Plame thus completely dispelling your dopey "fall on
the sword" summation.....But truth and ranters rarely meet, its not
convenientG.....Rod

You're assuming that it started and ended with Armitage. How do _you_
know that?

As in almost all things in life, there's plenty of blame to go around.

Don't take this stuff personally.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On Jul 5, 2:06 pm, "Rod & Betty Jo" wrote:

You're assuming that it started and ended with Armitage. How do _you_
know that?

A multi year /multi-million dollar investigation and that Novak and Armitage
have both said as much ......Novak is the original journalist whom publicly
released Plames CIA job connection with Armitage being his specific source.

As in almost all things in life, there's plenty of blame to go around.
Don't take this stuff personally.
R

Not personal at all......I only bother with off topic silliness when the
truth is bent so far out of whack......I never could understand anyone who
cares enough to have a opinion who cares so little about establishing a
basis for said opinion. Sadly 30 second sound bites from a oft prejudiced
media does not really inform.......Rod