After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I
began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of
routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router
lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has
delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.

So

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?"
3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?
4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool,
etc.?
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....


Cheers!

BTW, is the venerable Pat Warner critique at
http://www.patwarner.com/selecting_router.html still valid?

On Dec 29, 6:21 pm, "Never Enough Money"
wrote:
After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I
began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of
routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router
lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has
delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.

So

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?"
3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?
4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool,
etc.?
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....

Cheers!

Never Enough Money wrote:

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?"
3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?
4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool,
etc.?
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....


Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about. When I had a
plunge router mounted in my table, I longed for a router lift. That
little bitty adjustment knob needed lots of turns to get the collet in
position to change bits. And it was hard to turn.

Then I bought a PC 7518 and put it in my table. A quick spin of the
motor gets the collet in whatever position I want. The adjustment is
plenty precise for woodworking. It's quick, simple, precise. Life is
good, what more could you want? Oh, to do it all above the table.
Unless the collet itself will rise above the table, you still have to
get down there to tighten it.

I keep a mechanics roll-around stool under my router table. When I
pull it out and sit on it, my eyes are right at the table top to check
bit height. And I can tighten the collet and adjust the height without
stooping to look under the table. Life is good.

I've heard that the electronic speed control on the 7518 is obsolete
and allows the speed to fluctuate too much at low speeds. Since 95% of
my routing is at top speed anyway, it hasn't been a troublesome issue.
Life is good. I'll give up my 7518 when they pry my cold dead fingers
from around it.

DonkeyHody
"Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate."

My preference is a fixed base without a lift. I currently use a PC 892. It
does have above table adjustment but I don't use it. The reason for fixed
base and no lift is that there are times when it is convenient to change
router bits without disturbing the rest of the setup. With standard base,
you can drop the motor out the bottom. With a plunger or a lift, you can't.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
s.com...
After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I
began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of
routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router
lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has
delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.

So

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?"
3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?
4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool,
etc.?
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....


Cheers!

Fri, Dec 29, 2006, 4:21pm (EST-3)
(Never*Enough*Money) dothclaimeth:
snip I began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic
of routers. So snip

I don't think so.

So:
1. I don't know. I don't care.
2. I don't know. I don't care.
3. I don't know. I don't care.
4. I don't know. I don't care.
5. I don't know. I don't care.



JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax

Fri, Dec 29, 2006, 4:24pm (EST-3)
(Never*Enough*Money) doth query:
BTW, is the venerable Pat Warner critique at
http://www.patwarner.com/selecting_router.html still valid?

I don't know, but possibly Pat Warner might.



JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax

That metal casing certainly gives me a better initial impression than the
day glo plastic Triton, but when you pick one up, you feel a little more
sure of its strength. I am pondering the "lower" hp brother to the Triton
also. Wish I had your breadth of choices though.

Mike

"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
My preference is a fixed base without a lift. I currently use a PC 892. It
does have above table adjustment but I don't use it. The reason for fixed
base and no lift is that there are times when it is convenient to change
router bits without disturbing the rest of the setup. With standard base,
you can drop the motor out the bottom. With a plunger or a lift, you
can't.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
s.com...
After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I
began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of
routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router
lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has
delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.

So

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?"
3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?
4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool,
etc.?
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....


Cheers!

You don't mix well at parties, do you?

On Dec 29, 7:05 pm, (J T) wrote:
Fri, Dec 29, 2006, 4:21pm (EST-3)
(Never Enough Money) dothclaimeth:
snip I began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic
of routers. So snip

I don't think so.

So:
1. I don't know. I don't care.
2. I don't know. I don't care.
3. I don't know. I don't care.
4. I don't know. I don't care.
5. I don't know. I don't care.

JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax

"DonkeyHody" wrote in message
ps.com...

Never Enough Money wrote:

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?"
3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?
4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool,
etc.?
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....


Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about. When I had a
plunge router mounted in my table, I longed for a router lift. That
little bitty adjustment knob needed lots of turns to get the collet in
position to change bits. And it was hard to turn.

Then I bought a PC 7518 and put it in my table. A quick spin of the
motor gets the collet in whatever position I want. The adjustment is
plenty precise for woodworking. It's quick, simple, precise. Life is
good, what more could you want? Oh, to do it all above the table.
Unless the collet itself will rise above the table, you still have to
get down there to tighten it.

I keep a mechanics roll-around stool under my router table. When I
pull it out and sit on it, my eyes are right at the table top to check
bit height. And I can tighten the collet and adjust the height without
stooping to look under the table. Life is good.

I guess you have never used a lift. roll-around stool?!?!

Toller wrote:

I guess you have never used a lift. roll-around stool?!?!

Right. It's the simple things Son. You'll understand when you're
older.

DonkeyHody
"Be not the first by which the new is tried, nor the last to lay the
old aside."

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
ups.com...
You don't mix well at parties, do you?



He's an ass, just ignore him.

They do call him "Jerk Of All Time" for a reason.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
ups.com...
You don't mix well at parties, do you?

On Dec 29, 7:05 pm, (J T) wrote:
Fri, Dec 29, 2006, 4:21pm (EST-3)
(Never Enough Money) dothclaimeth:
snip I began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic
of routers. So snip

I don't think so.

So:
1. I don't know. I don't care.
2. I don't know. I don't care.
3. I don't know. I don't care.
4. I don't know. I don't care.
5. I don't know. I don't care.

JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
s.com...
After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I
began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of
routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router
lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has
delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.

So

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)

I think so.

2. What's the new "best under the table router?"
3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?

I have the big Triton and it replaced a large Bosch. The Triton has been
doing very well of almost 3 years.

4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool,
etc.?

IIRC the Milwaukee has had a couple of models out a bit longer than Triton.
PC has recently gotten into the game.

5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....

The router lifts are very precise but in 30 years of woodworking I have
never needed to be that precise. It is easy enough to eye ball the
settings. The built in models are precise enough IMHO, past that it gets a
bit AR.

"Mike Richardson" wrote in message
...
That metal casing certainly gives me a better initial impression than the
day glo plastic Triton, but when you pick one up, you feel a little more
sure of its strength. I am pondering the "lower" hp brother to the Triton
also. Wish I had your breadth of choices though.


There is no doubt about it, the Triton is Butt ugly.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message

5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....

There are a couple of ways of looking at this. Routers, lifts, most any
woodworking tools is a lot like cameras, golf clubs, sports cars, etc.

Most of us can do 95% of our driving in a Ford Pinto. Everyone still
driving one, raise their hand. OK, I don't see any.

I bought a Benchdog lift. I like it a lot. I'm not about to part with it.
Do I need the precision? Do I need the ability to run it up and down fast
(with my cordless drill) to change bits? Do I need to do everything from
above the table? It does not matter, I'm using it and enjoy using it.

I've not used any of the new routers but I'm confident they can do
everything I "need" but they still do not have the sex appeal of a good
lift. If you want to own and use the "best", get a lift with the biggest
router available. If you are a minimalist, get a modest priced router that
offers above table adjustment.

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....

Why hasn't any manufacturer produced a really workable router lift able
to raise and lower a spiral bit into a mortise for loose tenon joints?
I know about converting a drill with a plunge router and foot switch to
do this. Would rather buy one if made by Woodpecker or Jessem and not
have to play with parts until it worked.

On 29 Dec 2006 16:21:14 -0800, "Never Enough Money"
wrote:

3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?

I have the little triton in my table and have to say that I never ever
adjust the bit height from above the table. You've got to go under
the table to release and relock the plunge lock lever (I did forget
and leave it unlocked once with nothing bad happening, but wouldn't
trust it) so it really doesn't make sense to release the lever, then
get your wrench, get the wrench to engage, adjust, relock the lever
and put the wrench away when there's a knob right next to the lever
that does the same thing. You're probably bending down to get at eye
level with the bit regardless too.

However, being able to change bits with one wrench (and no button
holding either) above the table is the cat's meow and worth every
penny.

5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....

Perhaps with a lift you don't need to lock anything so you don't have
to go under and therefore above the table adjustments would make more
sense. I don't feel there's any lack of precision in my setup.


-Leuf

There was a Craftsman overhead router attachment that would do that quite
nicely. Presently, Lee valley has their Bit Jack. Has to be used with a
plunge router but you control the plunge with a foot pedal.
wrote in message
oups.com...

Why hasn't any manufacturer produced a really workable router lift able
to raise and lower a spiral bit into a mortise for loose tenon joints?
I know about converting a drill with a plunge router and foot switch to
do this. Would rather buy one if made by Woodpecker or Jessem and not
have to play with parts until it worked.

Locutus wrote:

He's an ass, just ignore him.

Hey Locutus ... are you also posting over in the IT Toolbox site?

Bill


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0665-0, 12/29/2006
Tested on: 12/30/2006 3:03:22 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
s.com...
After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I
began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of
routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router
lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has
delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.


Well, claimed to be progress. Different anyway. On Saturdays I watch the
woodworking shows on PBS, including The Router Workshop, where bits,
heights, fences and jigs are changed regularly and easily, and
"microadjusting" comes from a hammer. Talk about your minimal outlay!

Oh yes, before someone jumps in, I've never used an above the table height
adjustment on the router. Or my shaper, tablesaw, jointer ....

I have the larger Triton and it has worked well for over three years. From
casual observation I think it is still the best bang for the buck today.
However, if I won the lottery I would probably replace it with the set up
shown on the site below. It uses a special Milwaukee in a Jessem table with
a Jessem lift and fence.
Cheers, JG

http://www.jessem.com/main_page.htm


"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
s.com...
After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I
began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of
routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router
lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has
delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.

So

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?"
3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?
4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool,
etc.?
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....


Cheers!

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
s.com...
After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I
began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of
routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router
lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has
delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.

So

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?"

I'm happy with the Freud FT1700VCE. It adjusts, raises and locks for
above the table bit changes. I used to hate bit changing and height
adjustmentwith my Dewalt plunge router. I haven't lifted the Freud
out of the table since I dropped it in there 6 months ago. Its easy to
use with everything above the table.

My only complaints:
a. The paper template for the mounting holes was not accurate.
b. The plastic base plate was riveted to the metal base and partially
blocked one of the threaded table mounting holes.
c. When unlocked for height adjustment the router is a bit wobbly.

Jim (happy with Freud)

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Locutus wrote:

He's an ass, just ignore him.

Hey Locutus ... are you also posting over in the IT Toolbox site?

Bill


Since I am not sure what that is, I would have to say no.

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:48:10 -0800, DonkeyHody wrote:

Never Enough Money wrote:

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?" 3. It used to be
conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the table was best,
but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton 3.25 HP plunge
router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table adjustment
routers. What are the reactions from the rec? 4. I wonder what's in the
works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool, etc.?
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....


Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about. When I had a plunge
router mounted in my table, I longed for a router lift. That little
bitty adjustment knob needed lots of turns to get the collet in position
to change bits. And it was hard to turn.

Then I bought a PC 7518 and put it in my table. A quick spin of the
motor gets the collet in whatever position I want. The adjustment is
plenty precise for woodworking. It's quick, simple, precise. Life is
good, what more could you want? Oh, to do it all above the table.
Unless the collet itself will rise above the table, you still have to
get down there to tighten it.

I have no trouble tightening the collet from above the table using the
Porter-Cable wrenches. Any decent lift can raise the collet above the
table.

I keep a mechanics roll-around stool under my router table. When I pull
it out and sit on it, my eyes are right at the table top to check bit
height. And I can tighten the collet and adjust the height without
stooping to look under the table. Life is good.

I've heard that the electronic speed control on the 7518 is obsolete and
allows the speed to fluctuate too much at low speeds. Since 95% of my
routing is at top speed anyway, it hasn't been a troublesome issue. Life
is good. I'll give up my 7518 when they pry my cold dead fingers from
around it.

DonkeyHody
"Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate."

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

CW wrote:
With standard base,
you can drop the motor out the bottom. With a plunger or a lift, you can't.



Bingo! Easy as pie. The Milwaukee I use, has a button that releases the
threaded adjustment bar.
Down comes the motor. Change the bit, Up goes the motor to roughly
where I want it, let go of the button, and twirl the bit into position.
I do like the idea of the Triton's lower minimum speed.

I think there is still a market for all three. For the first timer, or
rare user, screw the router base under the table and be done with it.
For the occasional-to-moderate user, a router with built-in above table
height adjustment is more economical than a lift, but provides faster
adjustment than a fixed-base router. For the heavy user, a dedicated
router lift is typically sturdier and has better precision.

Many of the routers with built-in above table adjustment aren't really
built to withstand daily use. I used a Freud 1700 for less than a year
before it died. It's replacement (under warranty) only lasted a couple
of weeks before the spindle lock broke. Typically, the lift mechanisms
have a lot of backlash, and use plastic parts that distort or break
with heavy use.

I recently got the Milwaukee 5625 and the Woodpecker router plate
specifically because there is an upgrade path if a failure occurs. It
is far superior to the Freud, in terms of rigidity. We'll see how well
it holds up. If the lift mechanism in the router breaks, I'll upgrade
to the Woodpecker router lift made for the 5625 body. So at least I
won't have to re-do my router table again.

Regards,
John.


Never Enough Money wrote:
After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I
began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of
routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router
lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has
delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.

So

1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop
soon. ;-)
2. What's the new "best under the table router?"
3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the
table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton
3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table
adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec?
4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool,
etc.?
5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table
adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new
breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts
still have superior precsion.....


Cheers!