On 17 Oct 2006 15:49:34 -0700, "Mark Wells"
wrote:


Locutus wrote:
why shipping is expensive

I totally empathize with the original poster.
If they said the part was $11 and the shipping was free, then I would
feel like I'm getting a good deal -- a fixed jointer for $11! Instead,
the part is $3 and the shipping is $8, so I feel like I'm getting
ripped off.

I have often wondered what would happen to my Lee Valley habit if they
lowered their shipping charges substantially. For example, a medium
shoulder plane is $159. Shipping is
$12.50, bringing the total to $171.50.
what if the plane cost $169 and the shipping was $3?
That seems like a much better deal, even though the total ($172) is
higher.

Like I said, I am totally irrational about this. Does anybody else
have a similar reaction?

Mark

I agree, to a limit. To me, shipping seems like a license to steal.
Shipping charges do appear to be out of line. I've heard the defense
- the cost of picking the item, the box, packing materials, etc, etc,
but IMO, that's the cost of doing business. That it's not reflected
in the item cost makes that item actually too cheap. You can't
*really* get the blurfl for $20, it's actually $30.

As a point of reference, I ordered a pair of gloves from
www.moosejaw.com They didn't fit right, so I returned them. I had a
choice here. They include a return shipping label with the
merchandise they sell you. All you have to do is put the stuff in a
box, slap the label on the box and put it in the mail. Easy. 'Cept
that using their label would reduce my refund by $8. $8 to use their
return label.

An option was available to send it on my nickel. That's what I did.
I cost about $3.50 at my local post office.

It's going to take them just as much effort on their end to open the
box and restock with either option. It just cost me less to pay the
postage up front.

BTW, I was credited the full amount of my purchase. Moosejaw is a
class organization. I'll be happy to do business with them at some
future time.

This is what the shipping apologists miss - giving the appearance of
using shipping as a profit center just turns the customer off. But I
suppose those organizations have more business than they need so they
can afford to make some percentage of their customers look elsewhere
the next time they need something.

"George Max" wrote in message
...


I think you'll save money. But maybe not as much as you'd hoped.

Some parts the junkyard won't have available. My son's car could use
a new headrest for one of the seats, but that's not available. Same
with some rear seat stuff.


Typically the junk yards sell entire interiors to a customer. They cannot
sell a complete set of seats with parts missing. Having been in the
automotive business for many many years, the insurance companies go to the
junk yards first for automotive seats. Stolen cars most always need new
wheels, tires, seats, and radios. There was a time in the early 80's when I
saw on a daily basis stolen cars being brought to our dealership to have
those listed items replaced. Then and I suspect now, you cannot buy a
complete seat assembly from an American automobile manufacturer unless a car
is wrapped around it. The insurance companies in the early 80's created a
market for stolen seats. They only bought used seats to replace stolen ones
and the demand for used seats was pretty high. Very often we installed the
same seats that were stolen out of the vehicle and the seats were delivered
by the insurance company. Strange... It tool them years to finally stop the
cycle and start buying individual seat parts from us and let us assemble the
seats. Costly but the stolen seat market dropped.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:51:07 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , George Max wrote:

Some parts the junkyard won't have available. My son's car could use
a new headrest for one of the seats, but that's not available. Same
with some rear seat stuff.

Speaking as a cheapskate and 30+ year habitue' of local junkyards in search of
cheap car parts, I can tell you that interior parts, particularly anything
upholstered, are very hard to find in good condition at most junkyards. This
is because cars get into junkyards in two ways: they wear out, or they get
wrecked.

If the car is worn out mechanically, the upholstery will be heavily worn too.

And most cars that are wrecked badly enough to be junked have one or more
windows broken in the collision, which leaves the upholstery exposed to the
weather.

Speaking of junkyards... one of our local yards has a large sign behind the
counter: N F C R . Anyone care to speculate on the meaning? g

I understand. The bottom line for Son's car is that it's 11 years old
and doesn't have a head rest on one side.

If I were able to get one, I don't give a lick about the upholstered
(sp?) portion. I'd like the internal parts. What's happened is that
the metal rods are actually a U shaped metal rod attached to a blow
molded plastic ballon with some kind of clips and screws. It's those
screws that have pulled out of the plastic. Where I to get one in
working mechanical condition, I could swap the cloth and foam portion.

Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained about my $3.00 part
and the annoyance from the high shipping cost. Many of you are fair in
suggesting that Delta's part's and order fullfillment process is a
costly exercise for them. But what bugs me is that:

There is no match between the cost of the item and the cost assigned to
shipping
There is no match between the weight of the item and the cost assigned
to shipping
There is not match whether the part required is really poor Delta
quality (which in this case is true)
There is no match between the method of shipping based on the nature of
the part

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
....
The defense in this thread of "high" shipping costs is a bit surprising and
largely ignores that most of the costs listed as justification apply to any
retail/walk in operation(auto parts stores etc.) other than the actual
postage. Staging and inventory are not trivial in any operation and yet
retail wise account for a very small portion of the purchase price......
....

Owing in large part to the fact that they're restocking items in bulk
so that the freight charges are amortized over a large number of
individual items. Walk in and ask for a special order item and the
cost model changes drastically and, more than likely, so will the
pricing.

Goodwill only goes so far...for a smaller business or an occasional
lowcost item it may well be wise to "eat" the shipping costs. For a
large-volume organization, a few bucks over thousands of transcactions
adds up to real costs. Should they be amortized in a hidden manner or
apportioned to the actual user is then the question? There are
justifiable arguments on both ends of the spectrum, certainly. PC has
a particular business model--is it the best? Who knows(?), but it _is_
open, known and certainly not unique nor particularly onerous imo.

(Aside regarding earlier complaints about USPS for large volume, I've
certainly not tried that end of it, but it would seem as a
user/receiver a great benefit for small-ticket/light iitems that would
probably increase volume by the reduction of the "buyers' reluctance"
syndrome of "Man! I'm not paying _that_ for shipping!")

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:22:30 -0400, "Frank Arthur"

Either way, it seems like the sort of thing they could keep one or two
of at the dealership, and sell them for the $8 they wanted for the
part- instead of trying to cash in on it.


Because you think a lot of people do this?

They should also keep one or two of every other misc part then as well...
for every make and model they sell. And the variations for each model
year... before you know it they are sitting on thousands of dollars worth
of inventory that has very little demand. Not a good business decision.

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:27:21 -0400, "Frank Arthur"
wrote:


"Tim Taylor" wrote in message
...

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler"
wrote:

So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
to complain to someone.


Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
course. This is UPS after all.

They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
UPS.

And on top of that, I ordered a clip for my drum sander from the Delta
repair place. It was shipped from Delta wherever to the repair place. I
picked it up there in person and still had to pay shipping from Delta to
the repair center! How fair is that???.

Depends. How much did Delta pay for shipping the part from Delta
distribution to the Delta repair center?


That's an internal Delta business decision how to get it from Delta
location A to Delta B. That's the cost of doing business. Not the
customers concern.

You don't think that you, the customers, pays for ALL costs of doing
business?

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
reenews.net...

I'm no businessman,


Obviously.

George Max wrote:

This is what the shipping apologists miss - giving the appearance of
using shipping as a profit center just turns the customer off. But I
suppose those organizations have more business than they need so they
can afford to make some percentage of their customers look elsewhere
the next time they need something.

Companies like Delta might actually WANT you to try an "authorized
repair depot" before you go directly to them. They are using B2B type
policies simply because they aren't interested in setting up a true
retail operation. Try calling them to buy a complete tool.

I went through this just yesterday with a Bosch router part. I was able
to walk into a busy tool repair shop in Hartford, CT and buy the $15
part, saving the $10 that Bosch wants to ship it from the Norwood, MA
warehouse.

The same shop also repairs and stocks spare parts for Makita, DeWalt,
Porter Cable, Delta, toasters, vacuum cleaners, etc...

In article .com, "warbler" wrote:

Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained about my $3.00 part
and the annoyance from the high shipping cost. Many of you are fair in
suggesting that Delta's part's and order fullfillment process is a
costly exercise for them. But what bugs me is that:

There is no match between the cost of the item and the cost assigned to
shipping

No reason why there should be. To illustrate with extreme examples, a $10K
diamond could be shipped coast-to-coast in a padded mailer or small box for
less than a dollar via first-class mail -- but a dollar's worth of scrap steel
might cost twenty bucks to ship from one side of town to the other. Shipping
cost is a function of weight, bulk, and difficulty in packaging, none of which
have any particular relationship to the value of the item being shipped.

There is no match between the weight of the item and the cost assigned
to shipping

I doubt that's actually the case. Do you seriously mean that the costs to ship
a 1/2-ounce gasket and a ten-pound motor are similar?

There is not match whether the part required is really poor Delta
quality (which in this case is true)

?? What does the quality of the parts have to do with the cost of shipping? I
confess I'm at a loss to understand why you think there should be any
relationship here.

There is no match between the method of shipping based on the nature of
the part

It's probably less expensive for Delta to have a contract with a single
shipper, and ship everything that way.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Leon"
snip
The insurance companies in the early 80's created a market for stolen
seats. They only bought used seats to replace stolen ones and the demand
for used seats was pretty high. Very often we installed the same seats
that were stolen out of the vehicle and the seats were delivered by the
insurance company. Strange... It tool them years to finally stop the
cycle and start buying individual seat parts from us and let us assemble
the seats. Costly but the stolen seat market dropped.

Leon, Boy do I remember that. Honda prelude seats were a hot commodity for
a long time. For two or three years, the insurance companies only paid for
used seats and we were installing two or three sets a week. Once the
insurance companies started to pay for new seats, the cars quit getting
their seats stolen. I believe they created the market to run up the claims
and subsequently the rates. Did they lower the rates after they changed the
replacement policy? No way, but they did dry up their claims.

Dave



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:08:05 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:

Frank Arthur wrote:

But you aren't angry at yourself for not misjudging the height of the garage
door?


My buddy's bicycle shop, where I work part-time, is a big Thule and
Yakima rack dealer.

At least once a month, we have a customer who forgets about the loaded
roof rack or Rocket Box, and attempts to drive into the garage.
Sometimes, they're even driving quite fast! 8^(

Yet another reason to keep the damn car out of the shop...errr garage
;-)

On 18 Oct 2006 07:27:55 -0700, "warbler"
wrote:


Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained about my $3.00 part
and the annoyance from the high shipping cost. Many of you are fair in
suggesting that Delta's part's and order fullfillment process is a
costly exercise for them. But what bugs me is that:

There is no match between the cost of the item and the cost assigned to
shipping

Sure there is. It is shipping and "handling". Delta lost money on
this sale. It takes almost as much "handling" to process, pick, pack,
and load this part on a $3.00 sale as it does to on the $300.00 dollar
sale. However, there is not enough margin money in the $3.00 sale to
cover the labor and overhead to have it on the shelf and get it to
you.
There is no match between the weight of the item and the cost assigned
to shipping
Go back and purchase a 150Lb. part and see if that is true. The PMF
(parts master file) has weights for every item that is picked and
will match it to the carriers contract. But your still going to get
to pay for the handling. However, on the 150# part it may look like a
bargain.

There is not match whether the part required is really poor Delta
quality (which in this case is true)

Irrelevant and subjective.


There is no match between the method of shipping based on the nature of
the part

I can assure you, that if it cost the company less money to ship by a
different method, i.e. to have a less costly, dual method with
tracking and reliability available, they would do so, reducing your
cost but at the same time increasing their profit (or in this case
limiting the loss on the sale).

Frank

I see the broken out shipping fee as an honest policy. This is very
common in business-to-business transactions, as businesses actually
understand the costs of doing business. You'll often see an item cost, a
flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.

No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
shipping.

"Stephen M" wrote in message
...

I see the broken out shipping fee as an honest policy. This is very
common in business-to-business transactions, as businesses actually
understand the costs of doing business. You'll often see an item cost, a
flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.

No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
shipping.

Maybe they should tell you what they actually paid for the part as well?

"warbler" wrote in message
oups.com...

Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained about my $3.00 part
and the annoyance from the high shipping cost. Many of you are fair in
suggesting that Delta's part's and order fullfillment process is a
costly exercise for them. But what bugs me is that:

There is no match between the cost of the item and the cost assigned to
shipping
There is no match between the weight of the item and the cost assigned
to shipping
There is not match whether the part required is really poor Delta
quality (which in this case is true)
There is no match between the method of shipping based on the nature of
the part


I'm going to guess here that Delta shipped the part via UPS. If so, UPS
doesn't care about the value of the part (if it's under $100), the quality
of the part, the nature of the part, or the weight except in 1 pound
increments.

A 1 oz. package costs just as much to ship as a 1 lb. package. If the item
in the box is worth $.30 or $100, UPS does not care. The charge is based on
your zip code, the shipper's zip code, and the weight in whole pounds
rounded up - that's it. Over $100, they add cost for insurance. Plus, they
charge you a weekly fee just for showing up and picking up your packages.

To your point of shipping method - a company the size of Delta is not going
to pick and choose between shipping methods based on what is being shipped.
They will have a contract carrier and they will likely use them for all
parcels. It would cost them even more in labor costs for their shipping
department to evaluate the different methods and pick the cheapest one for
the purpose, fill out the necessary paperwork, etc. They can't just drop it
in an envelope and put a stamp on it - they probably don't even have access
to stamps or envelopes.

Even if they used the USPS, it would be more likely that they would use the
pre-paid Priority Mail boxes, which I think are $4.95 regardless of weight.

I guess people who don't do this every day don't realize that it's just as
much of a PITA to ship a tiny little item as it is to ship a big one.
Sometimes more.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:58:59 -0400, "Locutus"
wrote:


"George Max" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:27:21 -0400, "Frank Arthur"
wrote:


"Tim Taylor" wrote in message
...

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On 17 Oct 2006 09:00:45 -0700, "warbler"
wrote:

So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and wanted
to complain to someone.


Same here. I ordered from the DeWalt/Delta/Porter Cable parts people.
A simple o-ring, 99 cents. About as much as you paid for shipping. I
don't remember exactly - $8? $10? for shipping. It came in a very
large box considering that it was only an o-ring. Crushed. Of
course. This is UPS after all.

They could have put it in a #10 business envelope and stuck a 37 cent
stamp on it and been to my house in 3 days instead of the 10 it took
UPS.

And on top of that, I ordered a clip for my drum sander from the Delta
repair place. It was shipped from Delta wherever to the repair place. I
picked it up there in person and still had to pay shipping from Delta to
the repair center! How fair is that???.

Depends. How much did Delta pay for shipping the part from Delta
distribution to the Delta repair center?


That's an internal Delta business decision how to get it from Delta
location A to Delta B. That's the cost of doing business. Not the
customers concern.

You don't think that you, the customers, pays for ALL costs of doing
business?



There's a serious customer relations problem here in how they bill
this. When they do it this way they make themselves look as if
they're very nearly giving you the small part for free, it's the
shipping they're really making their money on.

Sometimes perception is the problem.

So when you point out that customer always pays, yes, I agree. The
problem now is how this is presented. The manner of it's billing and
the hard ass attitude of "take or leave it" kills customer loyalty.

My own personal experiences over the past 50 years leave me with a
mental list of places I just won't do business with. Yet there are
others that do the right thing (however that's defined) and get my
business over and over. Those people are the ones that don't leave me
with a feeling that I've been screwed as I walk out the door or
confirm my online deal.

So in the end, in addition to good business sense, it'd pay to also
have good people skills.

John B writes:

I recently purchased a Dewalt Scroll saw from the US and shipping to
Aust. varied between companies from $500.00 - $288.00.
My thoughts is that a lot a companies see shipping as a means of making

When you start getting into truck freight and such, prices can vary all
over the map.

At freight101.com, they will list dozens of carriers that could haul your
freight. I have seen the price for a shipment range from $75 up to $300
or $400.

Brian Elfert

Stephen M wrote:

....
... a flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.

No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
shipping.

And how is that any different other than naming the "transaction fee" a
"handling fee"???

warbler wrote:
Wow. I obviously touched a nerve when I complained ...

Others have competently addressed the realities of the
shipping/handling charges as being essentially the product of having to
deal with large volumes negates "special-casing". That some judicious
application of business psychology might be able to improve perception
is undoubtedly also true.

But I'm still trying to figure out what 1-oz part shut your jointer
down???

Finding the keyboard operational
warbler entered:

So I need a $3.00 part for my jointer or else it is dead. Order it
online from Delta. You would think thing they would not charge $8 for
shipping since the part weights about 1 ounce. Just annoyed and
wanted to complain to someone.

Boy there is a lot of good stuff here frpm both sides here. I just want to
add my 2 cents here.
As a small business owner, I get 10, 12 deliveries a week from UPS, Fedex,
DHL and USPS. All of them have their good points and bad. I can't say that
one of them beat up on the boxes more then the other. I do have on supplier
that couldn't ship a box in a box without screwing up. The only reason I
deal with them is that they replace damaged items quickly and for free.
Shipping charges are a royal 15 carat pain in the ass. If I build it into
the price, then my product is too expensive. If I charge the instore price
plus the cost of the time for someone to pull, pack and lable, then add the
actual postage or other fees then I get complaints about $5 shipping on a
$12 product.
In the case of $8 on a $3 part. Well there could be a number of reasons.
Delta may find that $8 averages out over all the part orders. The $3 part
may not be a part that Delta has found necessary to stock as a part. So
someone has to get the part from manufacturing. Hopefully, they are in the
same building or at least the same state.
The third and possibly the closest to the truth is, $8 covers their fixed
shipping costs. Salaries + SS/WCI/medical, space, light, heat, packing
materiels, invoicing, billing.
Anyway, I am sure that Delta or any other company is not getting rich on
this kind of thing. It does suck if you are paying a lot for a little but
there doesn't seem to way around it.
Bob

--?
--?
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

The Other Funk wrote:
Anyway, I am sure that Delta or any other company is not getting rich on
this kind of thing. It does suck if you are paying a lot for a little but
there doesn't seem to way around it.

BTW, Lee Valley, who a lot of people hold up as the "gold standard" in
many categories, charges $7.50 for shipping a $3 part. If you order
$21 of merchanise, then you pay $9.50 in shipping.

Mark

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:01:06 -0500, George Max wrote:

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 03:43:53 -0500, Prometheus
wrote:

(Smacking myself in the forehead) As stupid as it sounds, I hadn't
even thought of that- I was so ****ed at the dealership, I just got
muleish about it.

I think you'll save money. But maybe not as much as you'd hoped.

If I could cut out the new antenna and the shipping, that would save
$65 if I were to pay the list price.

Of course, if I just fabricate a new one or cd weld a stud onto the
old one, that doesn't cost anything.

Some parts the junkyard won't have available. My son's car could use
a new headrest for one of the seats, but that's not available. Same
with some rear seat stuff.

That may be part of why I didn't think of it. The last three or four
times I tried the junkyard, they didn't have the parts I needed, or
gave me pieces from the wrong model.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:56:47 -0400, "Locutus"
wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:22:30 -0400, "Frank Arthur"

Either way, it seems like the sort of thing they could keep one or two
of at the dealership, and sell them for the $8 they wanted for the
part- instead of trying to cash in on it.


Because you think a lot of people do this?

Seems fairly likely, given the design. Wouldn't have to be a garage
door- backing out of anywhere that had an overhead obstruction of any
sort would clip the thing off.

They should also keep one or two of every other misc part then as well...
for every make and model they sell. And the variations for each model
year... before you know it they are sitting on thousands of dollars worth
of inventory that has very little demand. Not a good business decision.

Perhaps not- but this is a tiny part that would easily fit into a
drawer on the mechanic's desk- with room left over for about 1000
other tiny parts as well.

Ah well, now I'm just bitching. I see your point- there was just more
to the story with that particular dealership messing up the paperwork
on the initial sale, requiring two additional trips back to the place,
and endless irritiating phone calls (about three a week) for a month
where they all but demanded I give them a good review on a survey they
were sending out.

After all that, it would have been nice if *something* could have gone
smoothly and in my favor.

"dpb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Stephen M wrote:

...
... a flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.

No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
shipping.

And how is that any different other than naming the "transaction fee" a
"handling fee"???

They break it out.

shippingandhandling has the *perception* of being shipping cost plus
profit.

HF has dirt cheap prices and the transaction fee pretty much indicates that
they intend to make up the profit in volume.... if you are not willing to
purchase in volume, then you pay a premium.

I agree that this is only semantically different than S&H, but *I* find it
to be refreshingly honest.

-Steve

Do we really need 98 posts about this topic? I wonder what good posts
dropped off because of this BS? Let's stay on topic here.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:36:29 -0500, (James Silcott)
wrote:

Do we really need 98 posts about this topic? I wonder what good posts
dropped off because of this BS? Let's stay on topic here.

Yeah, we do. This is a burr under the saddle for a lot of people.
It's good to vent. Or do you prefer people accumulating their
frustrations and then one day exploding in rage, maybe harming others?
Life's full of frustrations. Gotta let it out somehow.

On 18 Oct 2006 18:39:58 -0700, "Mark Wells"
wrote:


The Other Funk wrote:
Anyway, I am sure that Delta or any other company is not getting rich on
this kind of thing. It does suck if you are paying a lot for a little but
there doesn't seem to way around it.

BTW, Lee Valley, who a lot of people hold up as the "gold standard" in
many categories, charges $7.50 for shipping a $3 part. If you order
$21 of merchanise, then you pay $9.50 in shipping.

Mark


This great if the seller has other stuff you could add to your order
to deal with the shipping cost problem. If I order something from
Amazon, it's easy to add something else to bring my order up. If I'm
getting a part from Delta, Bosch, etc., that's not so easy.

Lots of good info in this thread. I intend to keep it mind the next
time I need a part for a tool. And try to get USPS shipping.

"James Silcott" wrote in message
...
Do we really need 98 posts about this topic? I wonder what good posts
dropped off because of this BS? Let's stay on topic here.

None (recent) if you subscribe to decent service and Google isalways there
for the archive.

The discussion is accurately labled, an it is in the context of woodworking
tool/part acquisition.

Quitcherbitch'n

Prometheus wrote:
I'm still more than ****ed off at Ford. Spent $15k on a new Focus,
and the antenna got clipped off by the garage door when it was 6
months old. My fault, sure- but all it needs is a little sheet metal
mount that a new antenna will screw onto. They wanted $8 for that,
$40 for a new antenna (I was told I had to buy it if I wanted the
clip), $25 for them to recieve it at the dealership from the
warehouse, and I'd have to pay in advance and go back two weeks later
to pick it up in person.


When are you going to learn that the garage is for storing tools and
wood, not cars? LOL

The coorporations got me trained now to expect to be reamed for
replacement parts and to be thrilled when I can actually get a
replacment part..

I'm indifferent to Ford.. but any other car company would've probably
done the same thing. The name of the game is to save 5 cents on an
attenna mount because we as consumers make price such a high priority..
If they upgraded all the little stuff like that, a Focus would probably
cost 1-3k more. You and I might be willing to pay the premium, but most
people wouldn't. If everyone thought like me, places like Harbor
Freight would not stay in business.
Obviously, everyone doesn't think like me (which might be a good thing).

James Silcott wrote:
I wonder what good posts
dropped off because of this BS?

Huh? G

George Max wrote:
If I'm
getting a part from Delta, Bosch, etc., that's not so easy.

I've found a possible solution to that problem is to check for local
"authorized repair" places. I just saved $12 in shipping from Bosch by
obtaining a router part this way.

Stephen M wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Stephen M wrote:

...
... a flat handling fee, and the actual shipper's cost.

No. honest is what HF does ... a 5.99 "transaction fee" then shipping is
shipping.

And how is that any different other than naming the "transaction fee" a
"handling fee"???

They break it out.

shippingandhandling has the *perception* of being shipping cost plus
profit.

HF has dirt cheap prices and the transaction fee pretty much indicates that
they intend to make up the profit in volume.... if you are not willing to
purchase in volume, then you pay a premium.

I agree that this is only semantically different than S&H, but *I* find it
to be refreshingly honest.
....

But to take the semantics to the limit, the post to which you responded
and (I was questioning your response to) specifically was about
business-business transactions wherein the "handling" or "transaction"
fee _was_ broken out from a separate line item for shipping which you
then claimed was somehow different...

I don't disagree that it's nice when the shipping charges are
identified as the actual sellers' cost, but not all billing software is
set up that way and , in the end, the decision is controlled by what
the particular business' systems and accounting practices dictate.

James Silcott wrote:
Do we really need 98 posts about this topic? ... Let's stay on topic here.

I've been trying!!!

(Still interested to know what was the part that started the furor...)

"James Silcott" wrote in message
...
Do we really need 98 posts about this topic? I wonder what good posts
dropped off because of this BS? Let's stay on topic here.


Dear Owner of The Net:

Kindly block the message threads you don't want to see rather than get up on
a horse and chastise the minions. Oh - no posts got "dropped off" because
of this thread. That's not how usenet works.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" writes:

"James Silcott" wrote in message
...
Do we really need 98 posts about this topic? I wonder what good posts
dropped off because of this BS? Let's stay on topic here.


Dear Owner of The Net:

Kindly block the message threads you don't want to see rather than get up on
a horse and chastise the minions.

While I agree with this, although i'd probably just ignore the post;

Oh - no posts got "dropped off" because
of this thread. That's not how usenet works.

I disagree with this. Many news spools have retention policies based on
space, rather than time, and additional posts will cause older posts to be
removed _from that server_. Sure, they'll (unless X-No-Archive) be available
via Google, but from the perspective of the news reader application, they've "dropped off".

scott

"Mike Marlow" writes:
Oh - no posts got "dropped off" because of this thread. That's not
how usenet works.

Actually, that *is* how usenet works. NNTP servers have limited
storage space, and as new messages come in, old ones are deleted. On
particularly busy groups, small servers end up keeping messages for
less than a day, or even just a few hours.

So think of it this way - every new message that shows up, causes one
old message to disappear from the server. Forever. Did you read it?
No? Well, you'll have to find a server with a bigger disk which may
still have it (like google groups, for example).

Note that this is why many servers refuse to carry the *.binary groups
- they eat up disk space much faster than text-only groups, so one
binary post could cause hundreds of text posts to disappear.

In article ,
James Silcott wrote:
Do we really need 98 posts about this topic? I wonder what good posts
dropped off because of this BS? Let's stay on topic here.


HA HA! Good one!


--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:36:29 -0500, (James Silcott)
wrote:

Do we really need 98 posts about this topic? I wonder what good posts
dropped off because of this BS? Let's stay on topic here.

Considering that most areas don't have serious woodworking-oriented
tool stores and older style tools & certain hardware can only be got
from online transactions or mail order, this is on-topic.

What did you want? Yet another thread on the difference between
Grizzly, Jet and Delta or how to cut a dado slot? Shop talk is where
it's at, IMO. Making things out of wood just really isn't so terribly
complicated that each operation needs to be gone over a thousand times
in minute detail each week so we don't all forget.

On 19 Oct 2006 07:38:51 -0700, "bf" wrote:


Prometheus wrote:
I'm still more than ****ed off at Ford. Spent $15k on a new Focus,
and the antenna got clipped off by the garage door when it was 6
months old. My fault, sure- but all it needs is a little sheet metal
mount that a new antenna will screw onto. They wanted $8 for that,
$40 for a new antenna (I was told I had to buy it if I wanted the
clip), $25 for them to recieve it at the dealership from the
warehouse, and I'd have to pay in advance and go back two weeks later
to pick it up in person.


When are you going to learn that the garage is for storing tools and
wood, not cars? LOL

Shame on you for wanting me to put my precious toys in a garage! I've
got an 1100+ sq ft. shop in the basement, where things are climate
controlled. Sheesh.

The coorporations got me trained now to expect to be reamed for
replacement parts and to be thrilled when I can actually get a
replacment part..

I'm indifferent to Ford.. but any other car company would've probably
done the same thing. The name of the game is to save 5 cents on an
attenna mount because we as consumers make price such a high priority..
If they upgraded all the little stuff like that, a Focus would probably
cost 1-3k more. You and I might be willing to pay the premium, but most
people wouldn't. If everyone thought like me, places like Harbor
Freight would not stay in business.

Obviously, everyone doesn't think like me (which might be a good thing).

Might be a good thing, but not on that score. We're too obsessed as a
culture with wanting everything now, and wanting it cheap. Then
people wonder why the manufacturing goes overseas, and the ones that
stay here don't pay squat. Most satisfying purchase I ever made was
an $80 radio I put on layaway when I was making minimum wage, and paid
for $5 at a time. Wasn't that it was that great- it was just
something to look forward to over the course of four months, and I
sure did appreciate it when I got it home... a whole different feeling
than just carting in a carload of crap from the Wal-mart to be used or
ignored- like the crap that comes in every other payday.

Now that's not to advocate poverty- but it makes a difference in how
you feel about things when they're just out of reach and you save for
and anticipate them. You end up choosing higher quality, caring for
them more, and generally appreciating the things you have more than if
you just put a pile of cheap junk on a credit card and shove it in a
corner at home.

If everyone thought like that, we'd be able to revive American
manufacturing and those jobs that were created might be a little less
pressure-oriented and pay better. Well, a guy can hope so, anyhow-
though it doesn't much matter, because it's not going to happen in my
lifetime.