"LRR" wrote in message

That is because we have ZERO need to learn other languages. How about
all the immigrants from Europe -- they adapted. Our strength is our
COMMON language.

And when you go almost anywhere outside the USA, what is the common
language?

ENGLISH!

You should learn to speak Chinese. That way, you will be able to talk to
your boss in twenty years or so.

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 02:42:37 GMT, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:

He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
the
choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only
Spanish?

I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.


Ultimate irony seen in Tucson: A No-Smoking propaganda banner (no, I
don't smoke) aimed at the high-school crowd. In Spanish. On a Tucson
Unified School District School Bus.

The Dora the Explorer show really ****es me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
Yiddish? Oy Vey!


While I agree with your sentiment regarding the no choice part, don't
fret too much. In our church body, our ministers are required to learn the
original languages so they can read scripture in its original text. They
and others who teach languages say that after a person has mastered a
second language, third, fourth, and more languages are easy (or at least
easier). They also indicate that starting at a young age makes learning
that second language much easier. You just need to monitor and correct if
he starts mixing languages.




My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
Spanglish!




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

*snip*


Further, it's an odd thing about languages--different languages
express things differently--something that one can say in a few words
in one may take several paragraphs in another--knowing two gives you
an alternative way of looking at things which can sometimes help with
problem solving.


*snip*

I'd like to point out that this is also true of machine programming
languages. Something expressable in 3 Lines Of Code in one language may
take 30 or 50 in another.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Stoutman .@. wrote:

: I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish?


Um, because it's by far the second most frequently spoken language in the US?



I am also disgusted by the
: English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.

See above.



: The Dora the Explorer show really ****es me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
: we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age.


The US is close to alone in having such poor opportunities
for kids to learn second languages.
Maybe very
: infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
: every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
: American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
: can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
: Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
: Yiddish? Oy Vey!

Unless you live in New York or Mentreal, the likelihood of Yiddish being
very useful is pretty small.

Nonetheless, if what you're suggesting is that we increase opportunities
for kids to learn second languages early on, I'm in complete agreement.


: My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
: Spanglish!

Very unlikely, unless both languages are spoken fluently in your
home (which, I'm guessing from your remarks, isn't the case).


-- Andy Barss

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
the
choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why
only
Spanish?

I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.

The Dora the Explorer show really ****es me off. When I was a kid (I'm
35) we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches
Spanish every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed
Spanish to American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the
street who can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead
of our kids Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool!
Why not Yiddish? Oy Vey!

My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
Spanglish!

Statistically 82 percent of Americans speak English at home, 10 percent
speak Spanish, and the next most common is Chinese (all dialects) with less
than 1 percent. That being the case, if one is going to encounter a person
who doesn't speak English in the US the most likely language to encounter is
Spanish. You'd rather they teach Hungarian, which is spoken by only 0.045
percent of Americans?

I just don't understand your hostility to Spanish--if one speaks English and
Spanish one can make oneself understood anywhere in North and South America
except Brazil, where they speak Portuguese. Why is that a bad thing?

As for a choice at the ATM, why does that anger you? For what it's worth
the local ATMs support something like 8 different languages, one of which is
Spanish.

If this was costing you something I would understand your ire, but it is not
and there just plain is not any downside that I can see.

in 1319172 20061004 034237 "Stoutman" .@. wrote:
He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
the
choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only
Spanish?

I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.

The Dora the Explorer show really ****es me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
Yiddish? Oy Vey!

My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
Spanglish!

I once sat next to a French woman with two small girls on a London to Paris train
(they were waved off by an English guy, presumably Dad) and the two girls spoke
the most amazing mixture of French and English to each other, swapping back and forth even
during sentences. But when Mum spoke to them in French they answered in French.
I think they have no problem knowing which is which.

Stoutman wrote:
...

I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.

The Dora the Explorer show really ****es me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
Spanish?

I don't understand how teaching your kid Spanish keeps Jose
from learning English.

Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
Yiddish? Oy Vey!

Well, then he could curse really well.


My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
Spanglish!

Does that happen?

--

FF

Mark & Juanita wrote:
...
Ultimate irony seen in Tucson: A No-Smoking propaganda banner (no, I
don't smoke) aimed at the high-school crowd. In Spanish. On a Tucson
Unified School District School Bus.

I'm still unable to figure out what's ironic about that.

--

FF

B A R R Y wrote:
..

Outside the US, it's very common to see young kids switch back and forth
from language to language. My wife is a 2nd grade teacher, and she has
students who translate for Polish, Czech, Russian, Pakistani, Indian,
and Asian immigrant parents.


What language is being translated into English so the Indian parents
can understand?

--

FF

I don't understand how teaching your kid Spanish keeps Jose
from learning English.

Do you think Jose would learn English more quickly if he was spoken to in
Spanish or English? When I was a graduate student, I worked in a lab with
students from several different countries. The foreigners were forbidden
from speaking their native language to each other while in the lab in order
to build their English speaking skills. Much like the foreigners in my lab,
I think Jose would learn English faster if he was 'forced' to learn English.
There would be more motivation for Jose if my son couldn't speak Spanish.
Comprende?


Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
Yiddish? Oy Vey!

Well, then he could curse really well.


My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
Spanglish!

Does that happen?

I'm not sure, yo think it is possible.


--

FF

Peter Lynch wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 03:25:07 GMT, Stoutman wrote:

I feel sorry for you.

You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.

Lew

I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10 languages,
that would be awesome.

You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?

Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
teach ONE new English word!!


I do agree with youthat teaching him spanish is probably not a good idea.
They should be teaching him chinese, that way he'll be able to get a job
when he grows up.

Pete

Yeah, but this way he will be able to talk to his employees if he has
his own business and his maid and gardener as well.

Glen

Jim Giblin wrote:
"native American"?


People born and raised here.


I wasn't referring to the Navaho, Cherokee, etc... type of native American.

LRR wrote:
B A R R Y wrote:

Only native Americans seem to have a problem with multiple languages.

That is because we have ZERO need to learn other languages. How about
all the immigrants from Europe -- they adapted. Our strength is our
COMMON language.

I agree. Leave the US, and you'll see why it's helpful to know more
than one language, and you'll also see how easy it is when you start young.

And when you go almost anywhere outside the USA, what is the common
language?

ENGLISH!

Try that away from tourist areas and air traffic control, and let me
know how it works out. I've found English to be very useful in some
multi-language areas, like Switzerland. However, in not-so-urban parts
of Italy, Spain, France, etc... You'll be better off with something
else. In some less-friendly areas, you'll get better service as an
American who speaks French or Spanish, than an American who speaks only
English.

There is also the issue of understanding. Have you ever been in a crowd
where you have no idea what anyone is saying? Knowing and speaking a
second language creates a totally different feeling in those situations,
and removes a bunch of stress, even if it's not the language the others
are speaking. I know this from experience in both conditions.

My bottom line is that being bi or multi-lingual can NEVER be detrimental.


I'm off my soapbox -- gonna try to go find some newsgroup that
discusses woodworking!

So why did you respond to a thread clearly marked off-topic?

wrote:

What language is being translated into English so the Indian parents
can understand?


Now that's funny! G

Wrong Indians...

In article , B A R R Y wrote:
wrote:

What language is being translated into English so the Indian parents
can understand?


Now that's funny! G

Wrong Indians...

Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
and English. I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to speak
it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:


Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
and English. I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to speak
it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.


So, you work with cab drivers and Indian restaurant prep cooks? One of
the guys stocks the coolers and shelves at his friend's large liquor
store. These folks are NOT IT people, call center managers, doctors,
etc... or for that matter, college educated.

My wife teaches in an inner city school. While English certainly _is_
the official second language in India, these folks aren't very good with
it. Therefore, the kids would translate my wife to Hindi, or whatever
language they speak at home.

Often, the largest concern these folks have is that their kids are
learning proper English.

But hey, if you haven't seen it yourself, it can't be true... G

In article , B A R R Y wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:


Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
and English. I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and
in
college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to
speak
it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.


So, you work with cab drivers and Indian restaurant prep cooks?

No: programmers and systems analysts. But I don't have any trouble
communicating with Indian cab drivers and the staff in Indian restaurants,
either. My wife and I are both fond of Indian food, and we eat in Indian
restaurants frequently, so college-educated professionals are not the only
Indians I come in contact with.

One of
the guys stocks the coolers and shelves at his friend's large liquor
store. These folks are NOT IT people, call center managers, doctors,
etc... or for that matter, college educated.

And your point is... ? (Other than highlighting your personal prejudices, I
mean.)

My wife teaches in an inner city school. While English certainly _is_
the official second language in India, these folks aren't very good with
it. Therefore, the kids would translate my wife to Hindi, or whatever
language they speak at home.

Often, the largest concern these folks have is that their kids are
learning proper English.

But hey, if you haven't seen it yourself, it can't be true... G

I can apply the same comment to you, too -- you don't seem to have encountered
any Indians who speak proper English, and as far as you're concerned there
can't be any.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

snip of some good stuff

Right on brother!!!!

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
the
choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why
only
Spanish?

I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.

The Dora the Explorer show really ****es me off. When I was a kid (I'm
35) we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches
Spanish every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed
Spanish to American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the
street who can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead
of our kids Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool!
Why not Yiddish? Oy Vey!

My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
Spanglish!



Again, right on brother!!! Total agreement!!!!

GeeDubb wrote:

then give the kid a choice of what language they want to learn.

Comprende?

Mejor dicho "entiende?"

"Comprender" means "understand" but implies an empathy as in, "I
understand your pain". "Entender" means to understand intellectually.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

B A R R Y wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:


Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They
still teach English in the schools there. The two official
languages of India are Hindi and English. I've met a fair number
of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in college; all of them
speak excellent English, and all of them learned to speak it in
India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.


So, you work with cab drivers and Indian restaurant prep cooks?
One of the guys stocks the coolers and shelves at his friend's
large liquor store. These folks are NOT IT people, call center
managers, doctors, etc... or for that matter, college educated.

Really? Look in the yellow pages under "Physicians".

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Greg Kimnach wrote:

The OP finds it "unbelievable" for the very reasons, no doubt, that
my initial reaction is.

It's Spanish.

He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand
it. Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish.
It's ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad
nauseum give us the choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman,
Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only Spanish?

Because the current wave of people speaking another language as a
first language are Spanish speakers and the companies want their
business. IOW, $$$.
_____________

To keep on topic, here are your Hungarian words for the day:
Fa - wood
Tolgyfa - oak
Nyirfa - birch
Juharfa - maple
Cseresznyefa -- cherry

You *could* have included a guide to pronunciation you know.

OK, I can manage "fa". Probably


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Doug Miller wrote:


I can apply the same comment to you, too -- you don't seem to have encountered
any Indians who speak proper English, and as far as you're concerned there
can't be any.


Where did I write that?

dadiOH wrote:

Really? Look in the yellow pages under "Physicians".


Absolutely!

I had an Indian doctor as a child, my favorite beer store is owned by
two Indians, and I deal with several Indian programmers. They all speak
excellent English and are very educated.

I'll say it again... Many of the Indian kids my wife has had in class
have parents who speak perfect English. Others have parents who barely
speak English.

wrote:
Stoutman wrote:
My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start
speaking Spanglish!

Does that happen?

Sorta. I've messed with Spanish since my university days - 50 years -
and retired to Mexico for a while (now in ugh Florida thanks to
wife). I sometimes can't think of the word I want in one language but
the other language equivalent comes to mind instead.

The most frequent problem though is in spelling, especially of
cognates - words in both languages that have the same meaning and
similar but different spellings. For example, "attention" in English,
"atencion" in Spanish. Generally no problem with the tion/cion but I
sometimes forget the second "t" in English.

By and large it is no problem and the benefits of a second language
greatly override any occasional minor problems.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Puckdropper wrote:

I'd like to point out that this is also true of machine programming
languages. Something expressable in 3 Lines Of Code in one
language may take 30 or 50 in another.

¡Que viva assembler!


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...

I don't understand how teaching your kid Spanish keeps Jose
from learning English.

Do you think Jose would learn English more quickly if he was spoken to in
Spanish or English? When I was a graduate student, I worked in a lab with
students from several different countries. The foreigners were forbidden
from speaking their native language to each other while in the lab in
order to build their English speaking skills. Much like the foreigners in
my lab, I think Jose would learn English faster if he was 'forced' to
learn English. There would be more motivation for Jose if my son couldn't
speak Spanish. Comprende?

How old is Jose? If you were a graduate student, unless you were an
education major I would expect the "lab" to be one frequented by persons 17
and over. At that age learning a new language is a struggle. At 4 or 5 it
isn't--at that age they learn languages if they are exposed to them, they
don't have to be "taught" in any systematic way.

Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
Yiddish? Oy Vey!

Well, then he could curse really well.


My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
Spanglish!

Does that happen?

I'm not sure, yo think it is possible.

I suspect that you'll find that around 16 or so he'll start speaking quite a
lot of Spanglish, especially if he knows that it ****es you off.

In article , B A R R Y wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:


I can apply the same comment to you, too -- you don't seem to have
encountered
any Indians who speak proper English, and as far as you're concerned there
can't be any.


Where did I write that?

Same place I wrote the attitude you attributed to me...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

Same place I wrote the attitude you attributed to me...


"I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to
speak
it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them."

All of Indians that you've met speak perfect English.

I don't disagree with that. I never said that all Indians my wife has
met don't speak English. This is same as the Polish, Czech, Russians,
Pakistani, etc... that she's also come in contact with. Some speak
great English, some don't. I'll agree that most Indians do speak great
English, just not every Indian who has had kids in my wife's class.

In article , B A R R Y wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Same place I wrote the attitude you attributed to me...


"I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to
speak
it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them."

All of Indians that you've met speak perfect English.

I didn't say that. "Perfect" is your word, not mine. See above for what I
actually wrote about the ones that I know. You quoted it, but you didn't
appear to have actually bothered to read it.

And where, exactly, did I say that I thought that meant that they all do?

I don't disagree with that. I never said that all Indians my wife has
met don't speak English.

Just like I never said that all Indians I've met speak perfect English, or
that Indians who don't speak perfect English don't exist.

Like I said... same place where I wrote the attitude that you attributed to
me.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
and English.

Sorry I misquoted you in other posts. You got me interested in the
subject enough to learn more... G

I went and looked it up and found some stuff that actually surprised me.

According to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India
about 150 million of India's population of 1.1 billion speak English.

"Doug Miller" wrote

Just like I never said that all Indians I've met speak perfect English, or
that Indians who don't speak perfect English don't exist.

Regards,
Doug Miller

I've met very few Americans who speak perfect English.

Max

"Press 1 for English"
"Press 2 to hang up and call back when you can understand English"

In article , B A R R Y wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
and English.

Sorry I misquoted you in other posts. You got me interested in the
subject enough to learn more... G

I went and looked it up and found some stuff that actually surprised me.

According to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India
about 150 million of India's population of 1.1 billion speak English.

IOW, about 1 in 7. I'm surprised it's not higher, but I'm sure that the ones
who do speak English are more interested in moving to the U.S. than the ones
who don't.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

IOW, about 1 in 7. I'm surprised it's not higher

So was I! G

Glen wrote:
Peter Lynch wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 03:25:07 GMT, Stoutman wrote:

I feel sorry for you.

You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.

Lew

I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10 languages,
that would be awesome.

You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?

Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
teach ONE new English word!!


I do agree with youthat teaching him spanish is probably not a good idea.
They should be teaching him chinese, that way he'll be able to get a job
when he grows up.

Pete

Yeah, but this way he will be able to talk to his employees if he has
his own business and his maid and gardener as well.


Almost on-topic for this newsgroup is a comment made to me by the
foreman supervising remodeling of our office just outside of the DC
beltway. "You have to speak Spanish to workin construction around
here."

My personal observation is that Jamaican patois would be useful
for anyone in the local tree service business.

--

FF

"Watchout below for the fukkin****limbmon!"

B A R R Y wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:


Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
and English. I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to speak
it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.


So, you work with cab drivers and Indian restaurant prep cooks? One of
the guys stocks the coolers and shelves at his friend's large liquor
store. These folks are NOT IT people, call center managers, doctors,
etc... or for that matter, college educated.

My wife teaches in an inner city school. While English certainly _is_
the official second language in India, these folks aren't very good with
it. Therefore, the kids would translate my wife to Hindi, or whatever
language they speak at home.

Often, the largest concern these folks have is that their kids are
learning proper English.


UseNet being international it ocurred ot me that your wife might
not be teaching in the US. In fact, you still didn't say in which
county that inner city is located--might have been Hamburg.

--

FF

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
the
choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why
only
Spanish?

I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.

The Dora the Explorer show really ****es me off. When I was a kid (I'm
35) we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches
Spanish every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed
Spanish to American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down
the street who can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English
instead of our kids Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in
preschool! Why not Yiddish? Oy Vey!

My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
Spanglish!

Statistically 82 percent of Americans speak English at home, 10 percent
speak Spanish, and the next most common is Chinese (all dialects) with
less than 1 percent. That being the case, if one is going to encounter a
person who doesn't speak English in the US the most likely language to
encounter is Spanish. You'd rather they teach Hungarian, which is spoken
by only 0.045 percent of Americans?

I just don't understand your hostility to Spanish--if one speaks English
and Spanish one can make oneself understood anywhere in North and South
America except Brazil, where they speak Portuguese. Why is that a bad
thing?

As for a choice at the ATM, why does that anger you? For what it's
worth the local ATMs support something like 8 different languages, one of
which is Spanish.

If this was costing you something I would understand your ire, but it is
not and there just plain is not any downside that I can see.

good points right up to the last paragraph. In Arizona it does cost us
since everything government and school is printed in both spanish and
english (with the exception of street signs). My kids school has more
mandarin chineese kids than hispanic kids so why doesn't the school supply
mandarin documentation as well? Answer, the chineese take the initiative to
learn to speak english......

Gary

dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
Stoutman wrote:
My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start
speaking Spanglish!

Does that happen?

Sorta. I've messed with Spanish since my university days - 50 years -
and retired to Mexico for a while (now in ugh Florida thanks to
wife). I sometimes can't think of the word I want in one language but
the other language equivalent comes to mind instead.

One wonders if that effect is exaggerated by learning the language
at a late age. My guess is yes, for the same reason it is harder
for peopel to use grammatical consturcts they learned at a later
age. After 12 or so, the way the brain learns language changes,
using much more of the brain than the parts used for languages
learned earlier.

--

FF

Max wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote

Just like I never said that all Indians I've met speak perfect English, or
that Indians who don't speak perfect English don't exist.

Regards,
Doug Miller

I've met very few Americans who speak perfect English.


As a multilingual person explained to me, "It is easy to
learn to speak English, it is difficult to learn to speak English
good."

--

FF

GeeDubb wrote:

...

good points right up to the last paragraph. In Arizona it does cost us
since everything government and school is printed in both spanish and
english (with the exception of street signs). ...

So it would be cheaper if Arizona had never switched to English, right?

--

FF