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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
Folks -
I can't think of any hard reason why this wouldn't be safe, but thot I'd ask, since I'll be showing a shop full of spermlings the operation... I want to cut a small channel in the center of a square ~2" x 24" it's for a student's lamp project - I am going to rip it in half, then I wanted to use the dado head at 45 degrees to cut a small channel for the lamp cord through the center of each half and glue the whole mess back together. Yes, I know I could do the same thing using a core box bit in the router table - yes I know I could make two passes with each half of the stock and a standard saw blade. - I want to show them that there are almost always more than one or two ways to do things, and I already have the dado set on the saw. So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. John Moorhead |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
John Moorhead wrote:
I want to cut a small channel in the center of a square ~2" x 24" it's for a student's lamp project - I am going to rip it in half, then I wanted to use the dado head at 45 degrees to cut a small channel for the lamp cord through the center of each half and glue the whole mess back together. I don't like it. No good reason, but my gut doesn't like it. Lew |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
John Moorhead wrote: Folks - I can't think of any hard reason why this wouldn't be safe, but thot I'd ask, since I'll be showing a shop full of spermlings the operation... I want to cut a small channel in the center of a square ~2" x 24" it's for a student's lamp project - I am going to rip it in half, then I wanted to use the dado head at 45 degrees to cut a small channel for the lamp cord through the center of each half and glue the whole mess back together. Yes, I know I could do the same thing using a core box bit in the router table - yes I know I could make two passes with each half of the stock and a standard saw blade. - I want to show them that there are almost always more than one or two ways to do things, and I already have the dado set on the saw. So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. Could you do it? Probably. But the blades are no longer meeting the wood squarely and uniformly. The blade that would be cutting deeper would be the first one to seize if there was a problem. If the blades move in relation to each other and the carbides hit...well, I wouldn't want to be in the room much less explaining to some kid's parents. I think there might be better projects to demonstrate alternative methods of construction. This one might be a better demonstration of why it is better to err on the side of safety when it comes to woodworking equipment. R |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
John Moorhead wrote:
Folks - I can't think of any hard reason why this wouldn't be safe, but thot I'd ask, since I'll be showing a shop full of spermlings the operation... I want to cut a small channel in the center of a square ~2" x 24" it's for a student's lamp project - I am going to rip it in half, then I wanted to use the dado head at 45 degrees to cut a small channel for the lamp cord through the center of each half and glue the whole mess back together. Yes, I know I could do the same thing using a core box bit in the router table - yes I know I could make two passes with each half of the stock and a standard saw blade. - I want to show them that there are almost always more than one or two ways to do things, and I already have the dado set on the saw. So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. To what effect? Why not just use a narrower dado, and cut each half to half the depth of the dado's width? er -- email not valid |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"John Moorhead" wrote in message . com... Folks - I can't think of any hard reason why this wouldn't be safe, but thot I'd ask, since I'll be showing a shop full of spermlings the operation... I want to cut a small channel in the center of a square ~2" x 24" it's for a student's lamp project - I am going to rip it in half, then I wanted to use the dado head at 45 degrees to cut a small channel for the lamp cord through the center of each half and glue the whole mess back together. Yes, I know I could do the same thing using a core box bit in the router table - yes I know I could make two passes with each half of the stock and a standard saw blade. - I want to show them that there are almost always more than one or two ways to do things, and I already have the dado set on the saw. So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. Hey John. I should think you might have a better lesson in demonstrating the proper use of the proper tool for a given job. Lots of tools can be used for things they weren't intended for and it doesn't take many lessons for most people to figure that one out. What does seem to take a bit more reinforcement is the concept of not cobbing the job. Can it be done safely? I'm not sure I see an immediate reason why it can't, but it sure will make a crummy product - all for the sake of showing that you can use the wrong tool and still "do the job". Your groove is not going to be square with the blade tilt you describe. I guess I just can't picture what you're trying to do here. At the very least I can't understand why you're complicating this with a blade tilt at all. Maybe it's my lack of imagination... -- -Mike- |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
Hey John,
Please do not take any offense to this comment, but it reminds me of that old joke; What's the last words out a rednecks mouth? "Hey, watch this"! Marc |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:32:48 GMT, "John Moorhead"
wrote: So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. Simple: If you don't know what you are doing, and don't know common rules of safety, you shouldn't be teaching to adults, let alone children. Unless this is just another troll [which I strongly suspect but took the bait anyhow], you are out of your friggin mind. Get off the beaten path: Teach what you know. Try selling shoes. |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"John Moorhead" wrote in message
So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. I have absolutely no problem with doing it, and take the same safety precautions that you would use with any other non-through cut IME, it is just one of the reasons to use a table saw/dado stack, instead of a router, to cut dadoes/grooves. YMMV ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 12/13/05 |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"John Moorhead" wrote in message . com... So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. John Moorhead This is done all the time. Yes it is just as safe as cutting at any other angle. |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
Watch your clearances around the stack if you tilt it. On many saws,
there is only enough clearance available for a single saw blade tilted at 45 degrees. A dado stack might hit the table. In other words the saw was not designed to take a tilted stack. This is good enough reason not to even attempt it. Bob |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"Leon" wrote in message . com... "John Moorhead" wrote in message . com... So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. John Moorhead This is done all the time. Yes it is just as safe as cutting at any other angle. Not really replying directly to Leon but...... Talk about your black and white answers! YES.....NO.....YES.....NO. I would do it if I already had the dado cutters in the table saw. It's no less safe than any other cut but in John's case I'd certainly run a sample cut prior to class to correctly identify any problems he might incur. It always goes better the second time! Gary (and Guess who needs to chill) |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
Safe or not, the question is if you "can" physically tilt
the dado stack. I have done a number tilted at 20 or so degrees for the lower member in a bench back, but 45 might be a problem. I never tried this, so I admit I don't know. If you can, I would create a "zero clearance" throat plate by securing a large piece of hardboard on the saw table and raising the dado stack up through the piece. This will be a much safer surface to rip on and will not allow any material to "dip down" into the blade throat during the cutting process. John Moorhead wrote: Folks - I can't think of any hard reason why this wouldn't be safe, but thot I'd ask, since I'll be showing a shop full of spermlings the operation... I want to cut a small channel in the center of a square ~2" x 24" it's for a student's lamp project - I am going to rip it in half, then I wanted to use the dado head at 45 degrees to cut a small channel for the lamp cord through the center of each half and glue the whole mess back together. |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
Instead of tilting the blade, how about a 45degree
aux fence, so you pass the edge of the board flush to the table saw top?? John On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:32:48 GMT, "John Moorhead" wrote: Folks - I can't think of any hard reason why this wouldn't be safe, but thot I'd ask, since I'll be showing a shop full of spermlings the operation... I want to cut a small channel in the center of a square ~2" x 24" it's for a student's lamp project - I am going to rip it in half, then I wanted to use the dado head at 45 degrees to cut a small channel for the lamp cord through the center of each half and glue the whole mess back together. Yes, I know I could do the same thing using a core box bit in the router table - yes I know I could make two passes with each half of the stock and a standard saw blade. - I want to show them that there are almost always more than one or two ways to do things, and I already have the dado set on the saw. So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. John Moorhead |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
In article ,
"John Moorhead" wrote: So, simply put, is it safe to cut dadoes with the blade tilted at an angle other than 90/0 degrees? Thanks in advance for your feedback. Like Mr. Horse says on the Ren & Stimpy Show: "No sir, I don't like it." As ricodjour pointed out, there will be an unevenly distributed load on one side of the stack. Can it be done? Yes. Can it be done safely? Probably. Should you teach it as a method? Probably not. r |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"GeeDubb" wrote in message
Talk about your black and white answers! YES.....NO.....YES.....NO. That's because there are an increasing number of folks around here lately who, although they _think_ they know the answer to a question posed, don't really have the hands-on experience or knowledge to back up the thought process. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but this particular thread points that out quite nicely ... and more particularly so because it has a strong, and arguably irrational, basis in fear. Obviously, if you don't feel comfortable with a particular operation, or don't have the knowledge and equipment to perform it safely, don't do it. That said, it's a damn shame to irrationally miss out on one of the useful features of a tool that may actually do a job more safely than a "workaround". -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 12/13/05 |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
Robatoy wrote:
Like Mr. Horse says on the Ren & Stimpy Show: "No sir, I don't like it." I miss Mr. Horse... and the Gritty Kitty commercials. |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
Swingman wrote:
Obviously, if you don't feel comfortable with a particular operation, or don't have the knowledge and equipment to perform it safely, don't do it. I'd like to add to that, if you don't feel comfortable with a particular operation, or feel comfortable and perhaps you shouldn't,... That said, it's a damn shame to irrationally miss out on one of the useful features of a tool that may actually do a job more safely than a "workaround". You feel that using the dado head on an angle is safer than using a router? What lesson is the OP trying to teach the kids? Anything the rug rats learn besides shop safety is gravy. I just got off of the phone with Freud. Freud, Inc. 218 Feld Avenue High Point, NC 27263 (800) 334-4107 Their tech rep, Chad, just answered this specific question. His answer, "Yeah, do _not_ do that. We don't recomment that as it puts too much load on the whole setup." I suppose that along with RTFM there should be CTSAA - call tech support and ask. R |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"RicodJour" wrote in message ups.com... Swingman wrote: Freud, Inc. 218 Feld Avenue High Point, NC 27263 (800) 334-4107 Their tech rep, Chad, just answered this specific question. His answer, "Yeah, do _not_ do that. We don't recomment that as it puts too much load on the whole setup." Certainly if that was a dangerous set up there would be a warning issued with the dado set instructions indicating NOT to do that. My Forrest dado instructions did not indicate not to do it. |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"RicodJour" wrote in message
You feel that using the dado head on an angle is safer than using a router? That question cannot be answered without knowledge of the problem that needs to be solved, but my safety point should be obvious even to the most obtuse. What lesson is the OP trying to teach the kids? Anything the rug rats learn besides shop safety is gravy. What to teach or not teach is based on a myriad of factors, just two being the judgement of the teacher and the maturity level of the student. However, if you will re-read the OP you will see that was NOT the question as "simply put" by the OP, nor is it the one being addressed here. I just got off of the phone with Freud. Their tech rep, Chad, just answered this specific question. His answer, "Yeah, do _not_ do that. We don't recomment that as it puts too much load on the whole setup." I suppose that along with RTFM there should be CTSAA - call tech support and ask. An excellent idea ... with a caveat. If Chad is answering the phone, I would immediately suspect his qualifications to answer the question, and his pseudo physics reasoning about "load" points that out further. As for RTFM, Freud does not address the issue in any of the literature that came with my Freud dado stack, nor did Amana with my Amana stack. .... and, for both the above, in this litigious age, just as with "Chad on the phone", a prudent "abundance of precaution" legal defense would be to discourage anyone who _needs_ to ask the question. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 12/13/05 |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"RicodJour" wrote in message ups.com... You feel that using the dado head on an angle is safer than using a router? In my case I feel that using a router any time over using a dado set is probably safer. But tilting the dado set does not add danger over using it 90 degrees to the table. If that were true, using a miter gauge to cut dados at an angle would be just as dangerous because one side of the blade has more load as it enters the wood and using a sacrificial fence to cut rabbet's would be dangerous because the side of the dado set inside the sacrificial fence would not be cutting wood and would cause stress on the set up also. |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
Leon wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message ups.com... Swingman wrote: Freud, Inc. 218 Feld Avenue High Point, NC 27263 (800) 334-4107 Their tech rep, Chad, just answered this specific question. His answer, "Yeah, do _not_ do that. We don't recomment that as it puts too much load on the whole setup." Certainly if that was a dangerous set up there would be a warning issued with the dado set instructions indicating NOT to do that. My Forrest dado instructions did not indicate not to do it. I understand your point, but a manual doesn't necessarily cover every contingency and possible situation. Most of the time the manual is created, or seems to be created, by lawyers with such brilliant advice as, "Do not drop the router in a fish tank." Frankly, I'd never considered tilting a stack dado. Never had the need. The OP doesn't have the need - he's just trying to get tricky. There's absolutely no reason for him to tilt it when a square cut would work just fine for what he's trying to do. That's the 99.9% situation, and probably the reason it's not mentioned in the manual. I don't have any firsthand experience in the problems with tilting, just an engineering background and distrust of non-uniform loading of high speed whirling objects comprised of several parts. A substantial amount of force is required when dadoing to keep the piece flat on the table. Obviously the natural tendency is for the blade to lift the piece away from the table. That is the situation with the typical squared up blade dado. Now, if the dado blade is tilted over, two things happen. One of the blades will be biting deeper into the workpiece and will therefore have more resistance/torque on it. The deeper cutting blade will be the first one to slip if the arbor nut isn't cranked down nice and tight. The result would be carbide hitting carbide, which, at the very least, won't do the blade any good. The second thing that is happening to the tilted dado is that the downward force is not putting a lateral pressure on the deeper cutting blade. Again, no good can come of this. It's obviously up to each person to safeguard themselves as they see fit. If any adult with experience feels comfortable doing a particular operation, it's their ass and their business. The situation is a little different when an adult, trying something with which he is unfamiliar, and uncomfortable (he wouldn't have asked the question otherwise) is now getting tricky while teaching kids. Again, no good can come of this. R |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
Leon wrote:
Certainly if that was a dangerous set up there would be a warning issued with the dado set instructions indicating NOT to do that. My Forrest dado instructions did not indicate not to do it. Do you need someone to make you an instruction sheet that says "Do not play in the road." ? Duh. I sure hope that comment was tongue-in-cheek. |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"Dave Nay" wrote in message news:4MednSF5r7uMjLnZnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@mssinternet. com... Leon wrote: Certainly if that was a dangerous set up there would be a warning issued with the dado set instructions indicating NOT to do that. My Forrest dado instructions did not indicate not to do it. Do you need someone to make you an instruction sheet that says "Do not play in the road." ? So because you think it is dangerous it is? Go with that. With today's law suit hungry attorneys a company would most likely be found negligent if there was a problem with this set up considering how often it is used on a daily basis. |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Okay, dadoed miter question
"Dave Nay" wrote in message
Do you need someone to make you an instruction sheet that says "Do not play in the road." ? LOL ... corporate lawyers seem to think it necessary to say "professional driver on closed circuit" in car commercials, or "router not included" in router jig advertisements, so do you think they would miss something as dangerous as its been made out to be in this thread in a product manual? Duh. I sure hope that comment was tongue-in-cheek. What's "duh" IMO is the blind leading the blind with an irrational fear based on pseudo science. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 12/13/05 |
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