For the WTF file...

=================================================
From: http://www.mass.gov/dph/bhsre/ohsp/f...ts/facev21.htm

Woodworker Dies When Struck by Tool Knife Launched from Overarm Router

A 32-year-old woodworker was fatally injured at work when a steel tool
knife was propelled from a rosette cutter. The cutter was installed in
an overarm router. The steel tool knife penetrated a polyacrylic sheet
(trade name--Plexiglass) shield and then penetrated and exited his
chest, sub-sequently ricocheting off the wall before finally landing.
The victim was an experienced wood-worker, whose job also included
tool grinding and setup of spindle moulders.

The knife, measuring approximately 1-5/8 inch square, was part of a
cutter head assembly which had been previously used on a drill press
at much lower cutting speeds. It was custom designed and built for the
drill press, not for the router which is run at much higher speeds. At
the time of the incident, the router was set for 20,000 rpm and was
being used to make custom rosettes. The maximum permissible speed was
not indicated on the cutter head, and there were no written procedures
for its use (e.g., the recommended cutting tool speed). The knife was
held in the 4-3/4" diameter cutter head by flat shims and set screws.
The set screws could not counteract the centrifugal forces generated
by the high-speed rotation.
=================================================


Now, for ****s and giggles I made the following calculations. I was
wondering, using the router speed and cutter diameter, what might have
been the speed of that cutter as it sailed towards it's non-thinking
victim. (Granted, I'm sure there are more complex mathematics required
to calculate this accurately... but this is good enough for my
amusement ;-)

20000 rpm
4.75" dia bit

bit circumferance = 4.75 * pi = 14.92"

20000 rpm/60 = 333.33 rounds per second

333.33 * 14.92" = 4974.19 inches per second

4974.19 /12 = 414.52 feet per second

414.52 * 60 = 24870.94 feet per minute

24870.94 * 60 = 1492256.51 feet per hour

1492256.51 / 5280 = 282.6 miles per hour

So, according my amateur calculations, that cutter blew through his
chest at 283 MPH!

Moral of the story? Well.... if you have to ask ;-)

Joe Barta wrote:

For the WTF file...

=================================================
From: http://www.mass.gov/dph/bhsre/ohsp/f...ts/facev21.htm

Woodworker Dies When Struck by Tool Knife Launched from Overarm Router

A 32-year-old woodworker was fatally injured at work when a steel tool
knife was propelled from a rosette cutter. The cutter was installed in
an overarm router. The steel tool knife penetrated a polyacrylic sheet
(trade name--Plexiglass) shield and then penetrated and exited his
chest, sub-sequently ricocheting off the wall before finally landing.
The victim was an experienced wood-worker, whose job also included
tool grinding and setup of spindle moulders.

The knife, measuring approximately 1-5/8 inch square, was part of a
cutter head assembly which had been previously used on a drill press
at much lower cutting speeds. It was custom designed and built for the
drill press, not for the router which is run at much higher speeds. At
the time of the incident, the router was set for 20,000 rpm and was
being used to make custom rosettes. The maximum permissible speed was
not indicated on the cutter head, and there were no written procedures
for its use (e.g., the recommended cutting tool speed). The knife was
held in the 4-3/4" diameter cutter head by flat shims and set screws.
The set screws could not counteract the centrifugal forces generated
by the high-speed rotation.
=================================================


Now, for ****s and giggles I made the following calculations. I was
wondering, using the router speed and cutter diameter, what might have
been the speed of that cutter as it sailed towards it's non-thinking
victim. (Granted, I'm sure there are more complex mathematics required
to calculate this accurately... but this is good enough for my
amusement ;-)

20000 rpm
4.75" dia bit

bit circumferance = 4.75 * pi = 14.92"

20000 rpm/60 = 333.33 rounds per second

333.33 * 14.92" = 4974.19 inches per second

4974.19 /12 = 414.52 feet per second

414.52 * 60 = 24870.94 feet per minute

24870.94 * 60 = 1492256.51 feet per hour

1492256.51 / 5280 = 282.6 miles per hour

So, according my amateur calculations, that cutter blew through his
chest at 283 MPH!

Moral of the story? Well.... if you have to ask ;-)
20,000 for a rosette cutter sounds like a recipe for disaster, which
coincidentally, it was! I don't have a rosette cutter (yet--thinking of
getting one soon), but I'd envision cutting at the slow speeds that a
Forstner bit requires. Am I wrong?

Just looked it up. 350RPM is recommended speed. sounds perfect to me.

Dave

But you get such a smooth finish at the higher rpms?

The Visitor wrote:

But you get such a smooth finish at the higher rpms?

Not when the tool flies apart! You don't run a rosette cutter at
20,000RPM! Tell me you know better...

Dave

the time of the incident, the router was set for 20,000 rpm

Just looked it up. 350RPM is recommended speed. sounds perfect to me.

The forces which are trying to tear the cutter apart go up with the square of
the speed. Thus at 20,000 rpm, the forces are over 3265 times what they
would be at 350 rpm.

A. D. Coby wrote:

the time of the incident, the router was set for 20,000 rpm


Just looked it up. 350RPM is recommended speed. sounds perfect to me.


The forces which are trying to tear the cutter apart go up with the square of
the speed. Thus at 20,000 rpm, the forces are over 3265 times what they
would be at 350 rpm.




And I worry about the forces my arm exerts on a case cutter when slicing
open those damn blister packs! Every time I wield the CC, I think of
the stats of ER visits due to injuries suffered while opening such packages.

Dave

"Joe Barta" wrote in message
.. .
For the WTF file...

=================================================
From: http://www.mass.gov/dph/bhsre/ohsp/f...ts/facev21.htm


I mean if you just move out of the way as it explodes, you're fine

Do as I do. Use the scroll saw.

"David" wrote in message
. ..

And I worry about the forces my arm exerts on a case cutter when slicing
open those damn blister packs! Every time I wield the CC, I think of
the stats of ER visits due to injuries suffered while opening such
packages.

Dave

Massive chatter is more likely.

"The Visitor" wrote in message
...
But you get such a smooth finish at the higher rpms?

You guys can make fun of it all you want, but personally am making a point
out of learning something from the tragedy.

The report says it could have been prevented with polycarbonate instead of
acrylic. I was trying to decide between acrylic or polycarb lenses for my
new prescription ski goggles (can't see the snow anynore...). You can bet
your ass I have chosen polycarb. If a rosette cutter flies at me at 283mph
while I am skiing, I am ready.

"Toller" wrote in message

I was trying to decide between acrylic or polycarb lenses for my
new prescription ski goggles (can't see the snow anynore...).

Go in the summer then ... it's a lot cheaper.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

In article , "Toller" wrote:
You guys can make fun of it all you want, but personally am making a point
out of learning something from the tragedy.

The report says it could have been prevented with polycarbonate instead of
acrylic.

Yeah, well, maybe. But it *definitely* could have been prevented by the use of
the operator's brain.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 03:46:14 GMT, "Frank Ketchum"
wrote:


"Joe Barta" wrote in message
. ..
For the WTF file...

=================================================
From: http://www.mass.gov/dph/bhsre/ohsp/f...ts/facev21.htm


I mean if you just move out of the way as it explodes, you're fine


Easy. For a table saw, just stay out of the line of fire. For a
router, just stay out of the plane of fire.


--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/

Mon, Dec 12, 2005, 5:12am (EST+5) (Toller) claimeth:
snip The report says it could have been prevented with polycarbonate
instead of acrylic. snip

Wrong. It could have been "prevented" by lack of stupidity.

Using polycarbonate "might", or not, have kept him from being
killed.

Darwin Awards candidate.

Stupidity \Stu*pid"i*ty\, n. [L. stupiditas: cf. F. stupidit['e].] Latin
- clean up the gene pool



JOAT
A rolling stone gathers no moss...unless it's a hobby he does on the
weekends.

Hmmm, the Bullseye hand loads for my 45 behind a 110grain slug was just
over 800fps so he got hit by a slow 45cal bullet, Speed kills is one
moral..Take care...
David

"Chuck Taylor" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 03:46:14 GMT, "Frank Ketchum"
wrote:


"Joe Barta" wrote in message
...
For the WTF file...

=================================================
From: http://www.mass.gov/dph/bhsre/ohsp/f...ts/facev21.htm


I mean if you just move out of the way as it explodes, you're fine


Easy. For a table saw, just stay out of the line of fire. For a
router, just stay out of the plane of fire.


How would you do that?

Wouldn't you have to be horizontal and above the router bit??

Doesn't sound very practical.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:29:52 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:


"Chuck Taylor" wrote in message
news

Easy. For a table saw, just stay out of the line of fire. For a
router, just stay out of the plane of fire.


How would you do that?

Wouldn't you have to be horizontal and above the router bit??

Doesn't sound very practical.


Tongue-in-cheek. It would be not just impractical but nearly
impossible--and potentially a serious danger all by itself.

And it certainly wouldn't stop a rosette cutter from flying apart when
it's misused.


--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/

In article ,
"Toller" wrote:

You guys can make fun of it all you want, but personally am making a point
out of learning something from the tragedy.

The report says it could have been prevented with polycarbonate instead of
acrylic. I was trying to decide between acrylic or polycarb lenses for my
new prescription ski goggles (can't see the snow anynore...). You can bet
your ass I have chosen polycarb. If a rosette cutter flies at me at 283mph
while I am skiing, I am ready.

....or... if you're skiing at 283 MPH, and hit a branch with your eye...

Joe Barta wrote:

{sad story about power tool ignorance/abuse snipped}

So, according my amateur calculations, that cutter blew through his
chest at 283 MPH!



I think you have just re-defined "terminal velocity".

Genedoc wrote:
Hmmm, the Bullseye hand loads for my 45 behind a 110grain slug was just
over 800fps so he got hit by a slow 45cal bullet, Speed kills is one
moral..Take care...
David

110 grain 45cal bullet? sure you didn't mean 210
grain? 400fps is in the range of a bb or pellet
gun.

The revolving speed of the cutter may have been a
killer, but the actual killer was the weight and
size of that 1-5/8' square of metal.



In this case it wasn't speed that killed it was
weight.

George E. Cawthon wrote:
In this case it wasn't speed that killed it was
weight.

"For the cliff is all right, if you're careful," they said,
"And, if folks even slip and are dropping,
It isn't the slipping that hurts them so much
As the shock down below when they're stopping."
- from "A Fence or an Ambulance" by Joseph Malins

DonkeyHody

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:17:29 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:

Genedoc wrote:
Hmmm, the Bullseye hand loads for my 45 behind a 110grain slug was just
over 800fps so he got hit by a slow 45cal bullet, Speed kills is one
moral..Take care...
David

110 grain 45cal bullet? sure you didn't mean 210
grain? 400fps is in the range of a bb or pellet
gun.

If I recall, the standard "military ball" full round nose round is a
230 grain bullet. And I think I recall loading 185 grain
semi-wadcutters back in my shootin' days. 110 grains seems awfully
small for a .45 slug. Wouldn't take much Bullseye to get that little
thing to 800 fps.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

lrod

I think it was a "Senior" moment mixing my 270 varmint load bullets
with the 45. Been a long time since I was doing combat pistol matches.
You can't mess with F=MA, it was the M as a post stated that pushed
that F way up..
David

The The Visitor entity posted thusly:

But you get such a smooth finish at the higher rpms?

Well, it certainly finished him smoothly.

Actually it's the dissipation in the body of the stored energy that
does it. This is proportional to the square of the velocity.

Gee, what was this guy thinking?

wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually it's the dissipation in the body of the stored energy that
does it. This is proportional to the square of the velocity.

Gee, what was this guy thinking?


====The worst one I can remember is the guy who committed suicide by
bandsawing himself in half!! Anyone remember that?

Leif

"Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually it's the dissipation in the body of the stored energy that
does it. This is proportional to the square of the velocity.

Gee, what was this guy thinking?


====The worst one I can remember is the guy who committed suicide by
bandsawing himself in half!! Anyone remember that?


How about those retards who blow up people by "gooseing" them with an air
hose?

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:46:04 -0500, Lee Michaels wrote:

"Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message
...

====The worst one I can remember is the guy who committed suicide by
bandsawing himself in half!! Anyone remember that?

How about those retards who blow up people by "gooseing" them with an air
hose?

Google for "scrotum self-repair". Or maybe you don't want to. Involves
moving machinery and staples.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:46:04 -0500, Lee Michaels
wrote:

"Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message
...

====The worst one I can remember is the guy who committed suicide by
bandsawing himself in half!! Anyone remember that?

How about those retards who blow up people by "gooseing" them with an air
hose?

Google for "scrotum self-repair". Or maybe you don't want to. Involves
moving machinery and staples.

===Errrh, Dave. Just what prompted you to research "scrotum self-repair?"
*G*

Leif

Google for "scrotum self-repair". Or maybe you don't want to.
Involves moving machinery and staples.

===Errrh, Dave. Just what prompted you to research "scrotum
self-repair?" *G*

It's an old story. I saw it first many moons ago... before there was a
Google... before there was an Internet. It was on a piece of paper
that was being passed around. And it's bizarre enough that 50 years
from now the story will still be told... passed lovingly from father
to son...

ha. many moons ago.... funny....

he made a pun.

jc

"Joe Barta" wrote in message
.. .
Google for "scrotum self-repair". Or maybe you don't want to.
Involves moving machinery and staples.

===Errrh, Dave. Just what prompted you to research "scrotum
self-repair?" *G*

It's an old story. I saw it first many moons ago... before there was a
Google... before there was an Internet. It was on a piece of paper
that was being passed around. And it's bizarre enough that 50 years
from now the story will still be told... passed lovingly from father
to son...

noonenparticular wrote:

ha. many moons ago.... funny....

he made a pun.

jc

I did? What was the pun?

(I need to start worrying when people laugh at what I say when I
wasn't even trying to be funny ;-)

In article ,
"Leif Thorvaldson" wrote:

The worst one I can remember is the guy who committed suicide by
bandsawing himself in half!! Anyone remember that?

I do remember that but don't think I buy it. There wasn't blood spilled
all over the saw as I recall, and sawing a living person in half oughta
produce copious quantities of blood - at least that's how I put it out
of my mind.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 01:19:07 GMT, Joe Barta wrote:

It's an old story. I saw it first many moons ago... before there was a
Google... before there was an Internet. It was on a piece of paper
that was being passed around. And it's bizarre enough that 50 years
from now the story will still be told... passed lovingly from father
to son...

Allegedly true, but I haven't researched it.

Sure do, quite a few years back, even had a link to some gory news
photos. It was a big bandsaw. Merry Christmas all. David

In article ,
Joe Barta wrote:
noonenparticular wrote:

ha. many moons ago.... funny....

he made a pun.

jc

I did? What was the pun?

You had the cheeks to say 'moon'. It cracked-up Joe.

(I need to start worrying when people laugh at what I say when I
wasn't even trying to be funny ;-)

You didn't mean it that way, but he read it as the 'drop trousers in public'
act.