Awl--

Well, taking a break from the Harold/Home Despot fracas (rcm), I forayed to
Manhattan on Sat--a psychologically and often *physiologically* painful
endeavor for me--to my second knife show.
I hate ostentatious Manhattan yuppies, and what's the first thing I see
outside the hotel hosting sed knife show??
A stretched Hummer--swear to god....

One way to describe a good knife show--and I'm a liberal atheist (albeit w/
increasing primordial urges to build my underground concrete bunker)-- is
that these shows are nothing short of a near-religious experience.
Now, it may be that being a mere hack machinist, I am over-awed by these
craftsmen and their wares. But sed hacked-ness may also mean that I don't
appreciate this stuff *enough*!

Suffice it to say that anyone here who really cuts metal, and occasionally
aspires to .001 tolerance, will be mesmerized by what they see.
And what is *really really neat* about this is that most often you are
talking to the guy *who actually made the knife*, most often by hand (little
cnc, not that many BPs, either!), that I daresay would leave the good
machinists here, unfamiliar w/ true knife making, dumbfounded.
As opposed to the dealers who booth up at these shows, about 15% of the
booths. They too are very knowledgeable, but more $/industry-oriented.
But you can always tell a dealer from a maker: The dealer don't want you
touchin his stuff, unless yer credit card is on the table--all his **** is
under glass, etc.
The makers have their stuff right out there, waiting to be fondled... sez a
lot.

Oh, and the *prices* will knock you on your ass as well, bruhs....

I'll tittylate you w/ but a cupla things I remember.
One fellow, rahcheer in LI, NY, found a way to fuse titianium to steel, w/
a startling effect of a sort of medievil antiqued
mother-of-pearl--incredible, as was the price: $5,000 for the blade, about
8" by 2" by about 1/8" thk.
Turns out there about 3 ways to fuse titanium to steel, but this LI guy
seems to have one of the better ones.

There are two ways to "anodize" titanium, one with heat, the other w/
electricity. The resulting color varies w/ the anodizing voltage! I was
shown two colors, one from 50 V, the other from 100+V--pretty high voltages,
it seems. But incredible results.

Damascus steel is the big thing, and most of these guys make their own!
Incredible, a real metallurgical tour de force.
Now, as indescribable as most of this damascus steel is (the patterns, the
colors, the selective etching, the engraving/artwork, etc), one stands out
in particular.

This particular fellow has a magnifying glass amidst his knives.
So I amble up, and observe, You gotta be real proud of yer work iffin got
dat 'glass on the table.
So he sez, Take a look.
It's called Mosaic Damascus--tiny, tiny scenes and themes, animals, insects,
hieroglyphs, fish, one after the other, seemingly engraved in the steel.
But it's not engraving!
He explained how it's done, but I don't have a clue. "Forging" was in
there some place.
Beyond artistic/technical comprehension. It would have been easy to spend an
hour just studying his knives thru that 'glass--easy.

I looked at, but did not hold, a $52,000 pen knife. Henry Franck, I think,
makes but 7 a year.
Not a bad gig.
Mike Walker has a $28,000 folding knife. Why is it $28K?
Well, apparently his wife left him, she did all his engraving, and this is
the last of his knives w/ her engraving. Can you say "re-con-cil-ia-tion",
Mike?? Cuz she can engrave like a muhfugguh....
Oh, Mr. $52,000 sold two on Friday. That's one booth that paid for itself!!

The makers are from all over the world, a surprising concentration from S.
Africa, couple from Japan, New Zealand, not too many from Europe, tho.
Couple from rahcheer in LI, Brooklyn, bunch from Texas, midwest, CA of
course, PA.
The Texans and Arkansas peeple luv these big-assed Bowie knives, so effing
big and heavy you can chop down a small tree with them.

Also some swords, etc.

Very nice custom knives can be had for $500-$750--actually a bargain, in
some cases, so nice are the knives.
But I would say that of the "serious" custom mades, about 75% are between
$1K and $2K.

There were some original switchblade and "assisted-opening" mechanisms, that
were explained to me in some detail by the builder, and I still don't have a
goddamm clue as to how he did it. Drop-dead gorgeous, in the detail AND in
the mechanism design.

I could go on and on and on, but suffice it to say that *anyone* involved in
metal almost has an *obligation to themselves* to go to one of these shows.
It really goes beyond "value", beyond collecting, because after a while all
that stuff almost becomes fuzzy.
What is most valuable, in my mind, is being able to witness and then
comprehend so many truly spectacular "creative events", by totally
dedicated, gifted, even fanatical people. No real way to do any of this
justice w/ mere description, or even photos.
You gotta SEE it, hold the work, study them, feel it, talk to the makers.

Note also that some shows are more dominated by the
survivialist/military/tactical peeple. These shows I've gone to are not,
altho those are also interesting knives, and there is some presence in these
shows. These shows are more high-end, artistically/craft oriented, w/
spectacular displays, and occasionally w/ some demos--engraving at this one.

The next good show is at the end of February 06, at the Crowne Plaza Hotel,
on 49th & B'way in Manhattan.
6 hours is barely enough time to take it all in. Many people will go on all
the days, for which there is a substantial discount.
Oh, leave yer checkbook/cc at home. Reason: once you start buying, you may
not be able to stop. I risk losing my goddamm house when I go to these
things. You could *easily* spend $50K--*easily*..

There are a cupla knife ng's, and these guys are very knowledgeable about
events, shows, specifics, much more than I am.

Oh, one last knife ditty:
From my first show, I got inspired, and ackshooly made a knife!! Solid
brass stilleto-style gravity knife, a fukn beaut, iffin I may say so
myself--oh yeah, w/ no cadcam!!
Got constant offers, orders for it from the aficionados at my job--some
big buck offers, too! Unique in that it was not only a very uniquely
versatile tactical knife (iow, for fighting--figgers, right?), but also
somewhat artistic AND quite utilitarian!! It had a multi-position feature,
so's you could use it like a box cutter, as well.
Then my auto accident.
Got everything back--wallet, job ID, keys, money, credit cards, tools,
watch, everything--
ceptin Le Knife! Fukn ****!!!
I still need to pursue this, as it was EMS who stripped off (literally cut
off) all my clothes, followed by the police handling the scene.
Some muhfugguh, paid w/ my tax dollars, walked off w/ it!
Proly figgered I wadn't gonna be needing it much, given the apparent damage,
but still.....

Oh yeah, I do wind up w/ an immense inferiority complex from these shows,
which leads to but another bout of Existential Crisis.
And then the wife leaves for her moms house 'til it's over, which means I
gotta feed the cats, clean their boxes, and the goddamm vomit...
Not a good thing.....
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

PV
I have the doors for your underground bunker
Respectfully,
Ron Moore
PS: LOTS of metal content!

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...


One way to describe a good knife show--and I'm a liberal atheist (albeit
w/ increasing primordial urges to build my underground concrete bunker)--
is that these shows are nothing short of a near-religious experience.
Now, it may be that being a mere hack machinist, I am over-awed by these
craftsmen and their wares. But sed hacked-ness may also mean that I don't
appreciate this stuff *enough*!

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...

Awl--

snip for brevity

http://beggknives.com/gallery.html

The new york show is a nice show, I know some of the people you talked
to just by your description.

You also have to consider the relatively primitive tools we knifemakers
use. Most use a 2x72 belt grinder a drill press a buffer and assorted
hand tools like files and saws.

I cut handguard slots with a drill, a jewelers saw and finish with a
small file. I rough grind the bevels on my blades with the belt grinder
and flatten them out by draw filing. When I polish my blades I hand rub
with wet dry sc paper wrapped around a micarta block. I start with 240
then work my way through 320, 400, 600, 1000 and then lightly buff with
a red compound on a hard felt wheel. When done you have a near mirror
finish with no distortion due to high or low spots.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:59:29 -0500, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

Awl--

Well, taking a break from the Harold/Home Despot fracas (rcm), I forayed to
Manhattan on Sat--a psychologically and often *physiologically* painful
endeavor for me--to my second knife show.
I hate ostentatious Manhattan yuppies, and what's the first thing I see
outside the hotel hosting sed knife show??
A stretched Hummer--swear to god....

One way to describe a good knife show--and I'm a liberal atheist (albeit w/
increasing primordial urges to build my underground concrete bunker)-- is
that these shows are nothing short of a near-religious experience.
Now, it may be that being a mere hack machinist, I am over-awed by these
craftsmen and their wares. But sed hacked-ness may also mean that I don't
appreciate this stuff *enough*!

Suffice it to say that anyone here who really cuts metal, and occasionally
aspires to .001 tolerance, will be mesmerized by what they see.
And what is *really really neat* about this is that most often you are
talking to the guy *who actually made the knife*, most often by hand (little
cnc, not that many BPs, either!), that I daresay would leave the good
machinists here, unfamiliar w/ true knife making, dumbfounded.
As opposed to the dealers who booth up at these shows, about 15% of the
booths. They too are very knowledgeable, but more $/industry-oriented.
But you can always tell a dealer from a maker: The dealer don't want you
touchin his stuff, unless yer credit card is on the table--all his **** is
under glass, etc.
The makers have their stuff right out there, waiting to be fondled... sez a
lot.

Oh, and the *prices* will knock you on your ass as well, bruhs....

I'll tittylate you w/ but a cupla things I remember.
One fellow, rahcheer in LI, NY, found a way to fuse titianium to steel, w/
a startling effect of a sort of medievil antiqued
mother-of-pearl--incredible, as was the price: $5,000 for the blade, about
8" by 2" by about 1/8" thk.
Turns out there about 3 ways to fuse titanium to steel, but this LI guy
seems to have one of the better ones.

There are two ways to "anodize" titanium, one with heat, the other w/
electricity. The resulting color varies w/ the anodizing voltage! I was
shown two colors, one from 50 V, the other from 100+V--pretty high voltages,
it seems. But incredible results.

Damascus steel is the big thing, and most of these guys make their own!
Incredible, a real metallurgical tour de force.
Now, as indescribable as most of this damascus steel is (the patterns, the
colors, the selective etching, the engraving/artwork, etc), one stands out
in particular.

This particular fellow has a magnifying glass amidst his knives.
So I amble up, and observe, You gotta be real proud of yer work iffin got
dat 'glass on the table.
So he sez, Take a look.
It's called Mosaic Damascus--tiny, tiny scenes and themes, animals, insects,
hieroglyphs, fish, one after the other, seemingly engraved in the steel.
But it's not engraving!
He explained how it's done, but I don't have a clue. "Forging" was in
there some place.
Beyond artistic/technical comprehension. It would have been easy to spend an
hour just studying his knives thru that 'glass--easy.

I looked at, but did not hold, a $52,000 pen knife. Henry Franck, I think,
makes but 7 a year.
Not a bad gig.
Mike Walker has a $28,000 folding knife. Why is it $28K?
Well, apparently his wife left him, she did all his engraving, and this is
the last of his knives w/ her engraving. Can you say "re-con-cil-ia-tion",
Mike?? Cuz she can engrave like a muhfugguh....
Oh, Mr. $52,000 sold two on Friday. That's one booth that paid for itself!!

The makers are from all over the world, a surprising concentration from S.
Africa, couple from Japan, New Zealand, not too many from Europe, tho.
Couple from rahcheer in LI, Brooklyn, bunch from Texas, midwest, CA of
course, PA.
The Texans and Arkansas peeple luv these big-assed Bowie knives, so effing
big and heavy you can chop down a small tree with them.

Also some swords, etc.

Very nice custom knives can be had for $500-$750--actually a bargain, in
some cases, so nice are the knives.
But I would say that of the "serious" custom mades, about 75% are between
$1K and $2K.

There were some original switchblade and "assisted-opening" mechanisms, that
were explained to me in some detail by the builder, and I still don't have a
goddamm clue as to how he did it. Drop-dead gorgeous, in the detail AND in
the mechanism design.

I could go on and on and on, but suffice it to say that *anyone* involved in
metal almost has an *obligation to themselves* to go to one of these shows.
It really goes beyond "value", beyond collecting, because after a while all
that stuff almost becomes fuzzy.
What is most valuable, in my mind, is being able to witness and then
comprehend so many truly spectacular "creative events", by totally
dedicated, gifted, even fanatical people. No real way to do any of this
justice w/ mere description, or even photos.
You gotta SEE it, hold the work, study them, feel it, talk to the makers.

Note also that some shows are more dominated by the
survivialist/military/tactical peeple. These shows I've gone to are not,
altho those are also interesting knives, and there is some presence in these
shows. These shows are more high-end, artistically/craft oriented, w/
spectacular displays, and occasionally w/ some demos--engraving at this one.

The next good show is at the end of February 06, at the Crowne Plaza Hotel,
on 49th & B'way in Manhattan.
6 hours is barely enough time to take it all in. Many people will go on all
the days, for which there is a substantial discount.
Oh, leave yer checkbook/cc at home. Reason: once you start buying, you may
not be able to stop. I risk losing my goddamm house when I go to these
things. You could *easily* spend $50K--*easily*..

There are a cupla knife ng's, and these guys are very knowledgeable about
events, shows, specifics, much more than I am.

Oh, one last knife ditty:
From my first show, I got inspired, and ackshooly made a knife!! Solid
brass stilleto-style gravity knife, a fukn beaut, iffin I may say so
myself--oh yeah, w/ no cadcam!!
Got constant offers, orders for it from the aficionados at my job--some
big buck offers, too! Unique in that it was not only a very uniquely
versatile tactical knife (iow, for fighting--figgers, right?), but also
somewhat artistic AND quite utilitarian!! It had a multi-position feature,
so's you could use it like a box cutter, as well.
Then my auto accident.
Got everything back--wallet, job ID, keys, money, credit cards, tools,
watch, everything--
ceptin Le Knife! Fukn ****!!!
I still need to pursue this, as it was EMS who stripped off (literally cut
off) all my clothes, followed by the police handling the scene.
Some muhfugguh, paid w/ my tax dollars, walked off w/ it!
Proly figgered I wadn't gonna be needing it much, given the apparent damage,
but still.....

Oh yeah, I do wind up w/ an immense inferiority complex from these shows,
which leads to but another bout of Existential Crisis.
And then the wife leaves for her moms house 'til it's over, which means I
gotta feed the cats, clean their boxes, and the goddamm vomit...
Not a good thing.....
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Got a picture of your knife? Id love to see it.

Now you know why the Religion of the Blade has lasted for so many
thousands of years. Form, function, finish are all just a few aspects
of turning a dozen wheelbarrows full of ore, into something that
is....special being too shallow a word.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:59:29 -0500, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

One fellow, rahcheer in LI, NY, found a way to fuse titianium to steel, w/
a startling effect of a sort of medievil antiqued
mother-of-pearl--incredible, as was the price: $5,000 for the blade, about
8" by 2" by about 1/8" thk.
Turns out there about 3 ways to fuse titanium to steel, but this LI guy
seems to have one of the better ones.

Probably not Titanium. Most likely it's called Damascus Steel or
Wootz steel ?

http://www.mines.edu/Academic/met/pe...s/damascus.pdf

Has "Titanium" replaced "billet" in marketing hype?
Always loved those "Titanium drills".
--
Cliff

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--

Oh yeah, I do wind up w/ an immense inferiority complex from these
shows, which leads to but another bout of Existential Crisis.

Amazing. I always look forward to reading a Kirk Gordon post; now I've got a
new author to make sure I watch for!

Excellent post, PV. Thanks for sharing.

moT

"Tom Accuosti" wrote in
nk.net:

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Awl--

Oh yeah, I do wind up w/ an immense inferiority complex from these
shows, which leads to but another bout of Existential Crisis.

Amazing. I always look forward to reading a Kirk Gordon post; now I've
got a new author to make sure I watch for!

Excellent post, PV. Thanks for sharing.

You actually look "Forward" to Kirk's posts?

You sadist you!

BTW, those aint called posts, they are called novels.

j/k
Bing

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 07:41:29 -0500, Cliff wrote:



Probably not Titanium. Most likely it's called Damascus Steel or
Wootz steel ?

http://www.mines.edu/Academic/met/pe...s/damascus.pdf

Has "Titanium" replaced "billet" in marketing hype?
Always loved those "Titanium drills".

More projects to do.......


Mark Rand
RTFM

Bing wrote:
"Tom Accuosti" wrote in
nk.net:


Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

Awl--

Oh yeah, I do wind up w/ an immense inferiority complex from these
shows, which leads to but another bout of Existential Crisis.

Amazing. I always look forward to reading a Kirk Gordon post; now I've
got a new author to make sure I watch for!

Excellent post, PV. Thanks for sharing.


You actually look "Forward" to Kirk's posts?

You sadist you!

BTW, those aint called posts, they are called novels.

j/k
Bing

Actually I think they are correctly classifed as non-fiction short
stories g
ca

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

Awl--

Well, taking a break from the Harold/Home Despot fracas (rcm), I forayed to
Manhattan on Sat--a psychologically and often *physiologically* painful
endeavor for me--to my second knife show.
I hate ostentatious Manhattan yuppies, and what's the first thing I see
outside the hotel hosting sed knife show??
A stretched Hummer--swear to god....


I think it lives in St. Louis, at Royal Gate Dodge, but I'm not too clear
on that. It has been there a number of times when we took our ram van there
for service. (Haven't been out there in a bit since the warranty ran out.)

Of course, it may not be the ONLY stretch Hummer in existance. What a
crazy thing to do!



Jon

There's a very long one here in Honolulu. About 10 windows long.
Karl

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...


Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

Awl--

Well, taking a break from the Harold/Home Despot fracas (rcm), I forayed
to
Manhattan on Sat--a psychologically and often *physiologically* painful
endeavor for me--to my second knife show.
I hate ostentatious Manhattan yuppies, and what's the first thing I see
outside the hotel hosting sed knife show??
A stretched Hummer--swear to god....


I think it lives in St. Louis, at Royal Gate Dodge, but I'm not too clear
on that. It has been there a number of times when we took our ram van
there
for service. (Haven't been out there in a bit since the warranty ran
out.)

Of course, it may not be the ONLY stretch Hummer in existance. What a
crazy thing to do!



Jon

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:46:47 GMT, "Karl Vorwerk"
wrote:

There's a very long one here in Honolulu. About 10 windows long.
Karl

Ive seen at least 5 here in So. California

Gunner

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...


Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

Awl--

Well, taking a break from the Harold/Home Despot fracas (rcm), I forayed
to
Manhattan on Sat--a psychologically and often *physiologically* painful
endeavor for me--to my second knife show.
I hate ostentatious Manhattan yuppies, and what's the first thing I see
outside the hotel hosting sed knife show??
A stretched Hummer--swear to god....


I think it lives in St. Louis, at Royal Gate Dodge, but I'm not too clear
on that. It has been there a number of times when we took our ram van
there
for service. (Haven't been out there in a bit since the warranty ran
out.)

Of course, it may not be the ONLY stretch Hummer in existance. What a
crazy thing to do!



Jon



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

clay wrote:
Bing wrote:
"Tom Accuosti" wrote in
nk.net:


Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

Awl--

Oh yeah, I do wind up w/ an immense inferiority complex from these
shows, which leads to but another bout of Existential Crisis.

Amazing. I always look forward to reading a Kirk Gordon post; now
I've got a new author to make sure I watch for!

Excellent post, PV. Thanks for sharing.


You actually look "Forward" to Kirk's posts?

You sadist you!

BTW, those aint called posts, they are called novels.

j/k
Bing

Actually I think they are correctly classifed as non-fiction short
stories g

Well, he spins a god yarn, whatever you call them. I've printed out a few of
them for the guys in the shop. Even the non-technical ones.

I have to admit, though, PV certainly does manage to use, er, creative
spelling to add a certain, um, flavor to his fevered rantings.

moT

It is sold as Timascus by Chuck Bybee at Alpha Knife Supply

A lot of people are intimidated by the professional knifemakers and
don't even try to make a knife which is why one of my favorite knife
stories is about a guy who made a "little ugly knife"
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Kni...nite_story.htm.

tom

On 15 Nov 2005 08:41:00 -0800, wrote:

It is sold as Timascus by Chuck Bybee at Alpha Knife Supply

A lot of people are intimidated by the professional knifemakers and
don't even try to make a knife which is why one of my favorite knife
stories is about a guy who made a "little ugly knife"
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Kni...nite_story.htm.

tom

How much does a piece of Talonite cost? Id like to try making a knife
out of it. Using modern tools of course...

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

see
http://www.knifeart.com/talbychucbyb.html
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Kni...ife_prices.htm
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Knives/impervium.htm
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Knives/lubricium.htm

be setting down when you calculate the prices

Uncle George


On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:47:47 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On 15 Nov 2005 08:41:00 -0800, wrote:

It is sold as Timascus by Chuck Bybee at Alpha Knife Supply

A lot of people are intimidated by the professional knifemakers and
don't even try to make a knife which is why one of my favorite knife
stories is about a guy who made a "little ugly knife"
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Kni...nite_story.htm.

tom

How much does a piece of Talonite cost? Id like to try making a knife
out of it. Using modern tools of course...

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:47:47 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On 15 Nov 2005 08:41:00 -0800, wrote:

It is sold as Timascus by Chuck Bybee at Alpha Knife Supply

A lot of people are intimidated by the professional knifemakers and
don't even try to make a knife which is why one of my favorite knife
stories is about a guy who made a "little ugly knife"
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Kni...nite_story.htm.

tom

How much does a piece of Talonite cost? Id like to try making a knife
out of it. Using modern tools of course...

Find the AMS number *if* it has one.
I *might* have a smallish bit or similar.
--
Cliff

On 15 Nov 2005 08:41:00 -0800, wrote:

It is sold as Timascus by Chuck Bybee at Alpha Knife Supply

A lot of people are intimidated by the professional knifemakers and
don't even try to make a knife which is why one of my favorite knife
stories is about a guy who made a "little ugly knife"
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Kni...nite_story.htm.

Perhaps he work-hardened it ...
--
Cliff