My router table is a POS, and I have been planning a new one for some time
now. While I love my Bosch 1617, I was going to buy a new 15a router for
the new table.

I just saw an ad for an old 1hp shaper. I haven't seen it yet, but they
claim it is in good shape, takes all router bits, has a 1hp motor, and
weighs 160 pounds.
I am thinking it might make a good substitute for the new router/router
table. It will certainly be cheaper. But I have never even used a shaper,
so I would appreciate some advice.

Do they take router bits and work well with them?
The 1hp motor sounds weaker than my 2hp 1617, but I suspect they can't be
compared like that. How will a 1hp shaper perform compared to a router?
Can you just compare amps, or do they not compare since the motor types are
different?

Toller wrote:

My router table is a POS, and I have been planning a new one for some time
now. While I love my Bosch 1617, I was going to buy a new 15a router for
the new table.

I just saw an ad for an old 1hp shaper. I haven't seen it yet, but they
claim it is in good shape, takes all router bits, has a 1hp motor, and
weighs 160 pounds.
I am thinking it might make a good substitute for the new router/router
table. It will certainly be cheaper. But I have never even used a shaper,
so I would appreciate some advice.

Do they take router bits and work well with them?
The 1hp motor sounds weaker than my 2hp 1617, but I suspect they can't be
compared like that. How will a 1hp shaper perform compared to a router?
Can you just compare amps, or do they not compare since the motor types are
different?


modern shapers come with 5 HP motors...

Dave

Is a shaper worth having? Yes, but you might not want to jump into the1HP
shaper or a shaper at all until you give the router table capability a bit
more attention.

The gap between router table capablity and shaper capability has narrowed
quite a bit during recent years and there is grey zone in the middle of
these capabilities that both can handle well. .

I, like you, have an old POS aluminum top router table that spends most of
its time hanging on the wall. I recently decided to build a descent router
table between the extended tracks on my cabinet saw. I hope this is going
to be a stopgap solution until I have more space; so I am spending most of
my time building a good fence with DC and adjustment capabilities. My Bosch
will reside there first, but I expect to eventually buy a bigger router
which, in a sense, narrows that capability gap.

Unless you do a lot of doors, large trim or other projects requiring you to
mill larger stock or larger quantites, you might want to consider souping up
your router table capability. I have found that building router and drill
press tables are kind of fun and I end up with what I want.

I don't think you are stepping up with a 1HP shaper (most today are in the
2-5hp range). I don't know the price but I'll bet similar bucks will build
a nice router setup.

RonB

Here's my thoughts... A decent router can do things that a shaper can't do
(freehand, certain profiles like non-through cuts, etc), but for certain
types of production stuff, the shaper is the way to go. If you've got tons
of raised panel doors to do, the shaper would allow you to do them faster
and possibly better.

As far as the 1 hp shaper vs. the 3 hp router, if you compare the amps used,
you'll probably find them pretty close. Then there's the difference between
the motor types, their intended use, etc. For example, my router and
tablesaw are both rated for about the same number of amps, but I'm pretty
sure that the tablesaw motor would kick the router's butt when it came to
running for extended periods at full power. So I don't think they're really
comparable.

One other note taking all router bits, keep in mind that shaper heads
are often 3 bladed, and router bits are often 2 bladed. A router will
typically spin the bit at 22,000 rpm (depending on variable speed, of
course), and the shaper will spin at around 7K to 10K. The cuts per minute
would be kept about the same, if you use the appropriate bit for the
appropriate tool (22K * 2 = 44,000, 10K * 3 = 30,000), but if you use the
router bit in the shaper, you'll get half the intended cuts per minute. The
quality of the cut will probably be reduced, and probably the life of the
bit. Check out www.grizzly.com for some available shapers, as well as bits
(I think).

If I was you and had a decent router, and I had the money, room and could
justify the bits, I'd look at getting the shaper (assuming it's priced
right, and in good shape). I'd build my own router table for the times that
makes sense.

--
Clint
"Toller" wrote in message
...
My router table is a POS, and I have been planning a new one for some time
now. While I love my Bosch 1617, I was going to buy a new 15a router for
the new table.

I just saw an ad for an old 1hp shaper. I haven't seen it yet, but they
claim it is in good shape, takes all router bits, has a 1hp motor, and
weighs 160 pounds.
I am thinking it might make a good substitute for the new router/router
table. It will certainly be cheaper. But I have never even used a
shaper, so I would appreciate some advice.

Do they take router bits and work well with them?
The 1hp motor sounds weaker than my 2hp 1617, but I suspect they can't be
compared like that. How will a 1hp shaper perform compared to a router?
Can you just compare amps, or do they not compare since the motor types
are different?

i just purchased a 5hp shaper with a power feeder. takes 1 1/4"
cutters. i **love** it, and will never look back.

the speed and quality of cut is well worth the money ... at least for
me. if time is not of the essence, it might be overkill.

the cutters are not cheap. i just got a rail/stile set for it, $500.
obviously smaller cutters are less expensive.

good luck!

---- dz


Toller wrote:
My router table is a POS, and I have been planning a new one for some time
now. While I love my Bosch 1617, I was going to buy a new 15a router for
the new table.

I just saw an ad for an old 1hp shaper. I haven't seen it yet, but they
claim it is in good shape, takes all router bits, has a 1hp motor, and
weighs 160 pounds.
I am thinking it might make a good substitute for the new router/router
table. It will certainly be cheaper. But I have never even used a shaper,
so I would appreciate some advice.

Do they take router bits and work well with them?
The 1hp motor sounds weaker than my 2hp 1617, but I suspect they can't be
compared like that. How will a 1hp shaper perform compared to a router?
Can you just compare amps, or do they not compare since the motor types are
different?

"Toller" wrote in message
...
My router table is a POS, and I have been planning a new one for some time
now. While I love my Bosch 1617, I was going to buy a new 15a router for
the new table.

I just saw an ad for an old 1hp shaper. I haven't seen it yet, but they
claim it is in good shape, takes all router bits, has a 1hp motor, and
weighs 160 pounds.
I am thinking it might make a good substitute for the new router/router
table. It will certainly be cheaper. But I have never even used a
shaper, so I would appreciate some advice.

Do they take router bits and work well with them?
The 1hp motor sounds weaker than my 2hp 1617, but I suspect they can't be
compared like that. How will a 1hp shaper perform compared to a router?
Can you just compare amps, or do they not compare since the motor types
are different?

The one in the shaper is rated at average power. The one in the router is
rated at maximum power. As the maximum power is twice the average, the two
motors are about the same.
However, the one in the shaper is rated for a much higher duty cycle, hence
it will last longer. In additon, the induction motors have no brushes to
wear out. About all that ever breaks are the capacitors.

Jim

I have a SECO 3 HP shaper and can hardly imagine needing more power. I have
had to slow it down for some interlocked grain hickory crossgrain cuts, but
generally it swings a 5" panel raiser in a full cut effortlessly. If you
want to do doors, I'd grab it immediately!

160 lb is a lot. Is there a stand?

Our club auction has a C'man shaper or two most every year. They sell for
&5-125, often with several cutters. I have one I use for rails, stiles, and
drawer front edges. It is 3/4 HP and has more than enough power for those
uses. It only takes up to about 2" cutters, but has plenty of power for any
of those.

A handheld router excels on warped, ringed, or twisted boards.

Wilson
"David" wrote in message
. ..
Toller wrote:

My router table is a POS, and I have been planning a new one for some
time now. While I love my Bosch 1617, I was going to buy a new 15a
router for the new table.

I just saw an ad for an old 1hp shaper. I haven't seen it yet, but they
claim it is in good shape, takes all router bits, has a 1hp motor, and
weighs 160 pounds.
I am thinking it might make a good substitute for the new router/router
table. It will certainly be cheaper. But I have never even used a
shaper, so I would appreciate some advice.

Do they take router bits and work well with them?
The 1hp motor sounds weaker than my 2hp 1617, but I suspect they can't be
compared like that. How will a 1hp shaper perform compared to a router?
Can you just compare amps, or do they not compare since the motor types
are different?
modern shapers come with 5 HP motors...

Dave

In article . net, "Wilson" wrote:
I have a SECO 3 HP shaper and can hardly imagine needing more power. I have
had to slow it down for some interlocked grain hickory crossgrain cuts, but
generally it swings a 5" panel raiser in a full cut effortlessly. If you
want to do doors, I'd grab it immediately!

Did you see where he said it's a 1 HP motor?

160 lb is a lot. Is there a stand?

160# is hardly anything for a shaper.

[snip]
A handheld router excels on warped, ringed, or twisted boards.

I see you're still struggling with the concept of proper stock selection and
preparation... :-)

Wilson
"David" wrote in message
...
Toller wrote:

My router table is a POS, and I have been planning a new one for some
time now. While I love my Bosch 1617, I was going to buy a new 15a
router for the new table.

I just saw an ad for an old 1hp shaper. I haven't seen it yet, but they
claim it is in good shape, takes all router bits, has a 1hp motor, and
weighs 160 pounds.
I am thinking it might make a good substitute for the new router/router
table. It will certainly be cheaper. But I have never even used a
shaper, so I would appreciate some advice.

Do they take router bits and work well with them?
The 1hp motor sounds weaker than my 2hp 1617, but I suspect they can't be
compared like that. How will a 1hp shaper perform compared to a router?
Can you just compare amps, or do they not compare since the motor types
are different?
modern shapers come with 5 HP motors...

Dave



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

David wrote:

....
modern shapers come with 5 HP motors...

Might want to look at the following links...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...mnumber=G0510Z
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G1035

Toller wrote:

....
I just saw an ad for an old 1hp shaper. I haven't seen it yet, but they
claim it is in good shape, takes all router bits, has a 1hp motor, and
weighs 160 pounds.

That's about the right size/weight for the Delta light-duty shaper which
was supplied w/ either 3/4 or 1 hp motor. It isn't in production any
longer but Grizzly at least is still making a knock-off which you can
see at
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...mnumber=G0510Z

I would caution strongly against the "table-top" router/shaper which may
be what they're talking about--it isn't a very good machine--I was most
disappointed w/ it after I got it as a second small shaper in order to
allow me to leave a small setup in place on it for the cope cut on full
length tenons.

It's still in production -- rather than take the time for loading the
Delta site as well, they Grizzly knock-off of it is at
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G8693

I am thinking it might make a good substitute for the new router/router
table. It will certainly be cheaper. But I have never even used a shaper,
so I would appreciate some advice.

Do they take router bits and work well with them?

Most small shapers to have router bit collets, but a shaper is not a
router and shouldn't be confused w/ one. I particular, the spindle
speed for a shaper is roughly 10k rpm max, whereas a router is roughly
20-25k. For large diameter bits, this difference is as critical, but
for smaller diameter bits which may also only be two flute as opposed to
three, the cuts/sec will be 10/20*2/3 = 1/3 of what it would be on a
router. Add to this the smaller diameter and the tip speed is also much
less.

OTOH, w/ full-size shaper cutters, there are three wings and the
diameter is 2" or greater and the tip speed is much greater.

The 1hp motor sounds weaker than my 2hp 1617, but I suspect they can't be
compared like that. How will a 1hp shaper perform compared to a router?

1hp shaper for a 1/2" spindle will be plenty assuming it's a real rating
(which the Delta is, of course).
I wouldn't be w/o a shaper for what I do, but I make a lot of windows,
doors, mostly architectural so am dealing w/ 1-1/8" or 1-3/4" stock.
For small cabinet work only, the router would probably be sufficient.


In summary, they're two different machines. Typically the shaper table
will be much more solid as compared to the run-of-the-mill router table
and the fence will probably be better than most of them except for some
of the very pricey ones.

HTH...

That's about the right size/weight for the Delta light-duty shaper which
was supplied w/ either 3/4 or 1 hp motor. It isn't in production any
longer but Grizzly at least is still making a knock-off which you can
see at
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...mnumber=G0510Z

I bought it $140. It looks exactly like the Grizzly. The motor is 14a, but
is actually bigger than the 18a motor on my TS. I wonder what that's about.

Most small shapers to have router bit collets, but a shaper is not a
router and shouldn't be confused w/ one. I particular, the spindle
speed for a shaper is roughly 10k rpm max, whereas a router is roughly
20-25k. For large diameter bits, this difference is as critical, but
for smaller diameter bits which may also only be two flute as opposed to
three, the cuts/sec will be 10/20*2/3 = 1/3 of what it would be on a
router. Add to this the smaller diameter and the tip speed is also much
less.

In summary, they're two different machines. Typically the shaper table
will be much more solid as compared to the run-of-the-mill router table
and the fence will probably be better than most of them except for some
of the very pricey ones.

I will hold onto my old router table, with the 1617, for small stuff.

Thanks.

Toller writes:

My router table is a POS, and I have been planning a new one for some
time now. While I love my Bosch 1617, I was going to buy a new 15a
router for the new table.

I just saw an ad for an old 1hp shaper. I haven't seen it yet, but
they claim it is in good shape, takes all router bits, has a 1hp
motor, and weighs 160 pounds.
I am thinking it might make a good substitute for the new
router/router table. It will certainly be cheaper. But I have never
even used a shaper, so I would appreciate some advice.


It's like comparing oranges and apples.

Both are fruits, but that is about it.

Shapers are notorious for causing injury, they can be very nasty.

My guess is that it is mostly operator error, but that is little
consolation if you lose a finger.

OTOH, if you have a production operation and need to make a lot of
custom moldings, it is the piece of equipment for the job.

Just give it a lot of respect.

If you use router bits larger than 1" dia, then you must start slowing
down the router RPM below 25,000.

Most router bits specify their top operating RPM.

Time for something like a Porter Cable 7538 multi speed mounted in a table.

The flexibility of a good table mounted router is tough to beat.

I spent my money building the NYW router table and dropping in a 7538.

The whole thing was less than $500.

I consider it money well spent.

YMMV.

Lew

Duane don't forget, the RAS makes a great shaper and moulder......

R ;-)

Rumpty wrote:

Duane don't forget, the RAS makes a great shaper and moulder......

R ;-)

Not!

The operative word here is "great"...