I have seen much on this group on how much efficiency will be achieved
if I change from my current Sears shop vac and 2" blast gates and
piping system to a real DC system. Since most of my tools are
Craftsman, will I need to modify the tool ports to make them larger?
Any info on what others have done would be appreciated.

Rocky

Rocky wrote:
I have seen much on this group on how much efficiency will be achieved
if I change from my current Sears shop vac and 2" blast gates and
piping system to a real DC system. Since most of my tools are
Craftsman, will I need to modify the tool ports to make them larger?
Any info on what others have done would be appreciated.


If you buy a real DC (which I also highly recommend), you don't have to change
the ports on your tools... just hook the 4" line to a reducer and thence to your
tool. OTOH, if you have a choice of ports for your tool, go with the largest.
No matter what you do, you'll be better off than you are now with that howling
shop vac.

I have a Penn State DC with the optional muffler and you can easily carry on a
conversation while it's running without having to shout. Try that with your
shop vac.

BTW, no matter what kind you end up with, invest the extra $30 or so in a
cyclone trash can separator. Your impellors will thank you (for years).



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
Rocky wrote:
I have seen much on this group on how much efficiency will be achieved
if I change from my current Sears shop vac and 2" blast gates and
piping system to a real DC system. Since most of my tools are
Craftsman, will I need to modify the tool ports to make them larger?
Any info on what others have done would be appreciated.


If you buy a real DC (which I also highly recommend), you don't have to change
the ports on your tools... just hook the 4" line to a reducer and thence to your
tool. OTOH, if you have a choice of ports for your tool, go with the largest.
No matter what you do, you'll be better off than you are now with that howling
shop vac.

I have a Penn State DC with the optional muffler and you can easily carry on a
conversation while it's running without having to shout. Try that with your
shop vac.

BTW, no matter what kind you end up with, invest the extra $30 or so in a
cyclone trash can separator. Your impellors will thank you (for years).



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


choking down from 4" to 2" will lose you a lot of the benefits of the
DC. it will work, but is unlikely to perform better than the shopvac.
figure on setting up 4" ports on all of the machines you can, even if
you have to cut some sheetmetal.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
Rocky wrote:
I have seen much on this group on how much efficiency will be achieved
if I change from my current Sears shop vac and 2" blast gates and
piping system to a real DC system. Since most of my tools are
Craftsman, will I need to modify the tool ports to make them larger?
Any info on what others have done would be appreciated.


If you buy a real DC (which I also highly recommend), you don't have to
change
the ports on your tools... just hook the 4" line to a reducer and thence
to your
tool. OTOH, if you have a choice of ports for your tool, go with the
largest.
No matter what you do, you'll be better off than you are now with that
howling
shop vac.

I have a Penn State DC with the optional muffler and you can easily
carry on a
conversation while it's running without having to shout. Try that with
your
shop vac.

BTW, no matter what kind you end up with, invest the extra $30 or so in
a
cyclone trash can separator. Your impellors will thank you (for years).



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


choking down from 4" to 2" will lose you a lot of the benefits of the
DC. it will work, but is unlikely to perform better than the shopvac.
figure on setting up 4" ports on all of the machines you can, even if
you have to cut some sheetmetal.


I would think that choking down to 2" would give better suction. What comes
to mind - a 4" water hose, if choked down will become a high pressure hose.
Wouldn't the reverse apply for suction? Obviously I know nothing about
moving air but it just *seems* logical, like putting a small nozzle on the
shopvac.

Vic

I would think that choking down to 2" would give better suction. What
comes
to mind - a 4" water hose, if choked down will become a high pressure
hose.
Wouldn't the reverse apply for suction? Obviously I know nothing about
moving air but it just *seems* logical, like putting a small nozzle on the
shopvac.

Vic


The velocity will go up, to a limit, but the total flow will go down. For
an electrical analogy, the smaller diameter hose is the same as a larger
resistor.

Steve

I would think that choking down to 2" would give better suction. What comes
to mind - a 4" water hose, if choked down will become a high pressure hose.
Wouldn't the reverse apply for suction? Obviously I know nothing about
moving air but it just *seems* logical, like putting a small nozzle on the
shopvac.



Just for ****s and giggles, I put a 4" to 2.5" reducer onto the end of
my 1.5 hp dust-collector hose, and it choked it down alright.

If you can imagine a dog trying to suck a Coke through a straw, you can
imagine how weak the airflow became.

I'm not an aerodynamicist (do they have those?), but I can tell you
from experience, get 4" ports on your tools!

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:27:43 GMT, "Vic Baron"
wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
Rocky wrote:
I have seen much on this group on how much efficiency will be achieved
if I change from my current Sears shop vac and 2" blast gates and
piping system to a real DC system. Since most of my tools are
Craftsman, will I need to modify the tool ports to make them larger?
Any info on what others have done would be appreciated.


If you buy a real DC (which I also highly recommend), you don't have to
change
the ports on your tools... just hook the 4" line to a reducer and thence
to your
tool. OTOH, if you have a choice of ports for your tool, go with the
largest.
No matter what you do, you'll be better off than you are now with that
howling
shop vac.

I have a Penn State DC with the optional muffler and you can easily
carry on a
conversation while it's running without having to shout. Try that with
your
shop vac.

BTW, no matter what kind you end up with, invest the extra $30 or so in
a
cyclone trash can separator. Your impellors will thank you (for years).



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


choking down from 4" to 2" will lose you a lot of the benefits of the
DC. it will work, but is unlikely to perform better than the shopvac.
figure on setting up 4" ports on all of the machines you can, even if
you have to cut some sheetmetal.


I would think that choking down to 2" would give better suction. What comes
to mind - a 4" water hose, if choked down will become a high pressure hose.
Wouldn't the reverse apply for suction? Obviously I know nothing about
moving air but it just *seems* logical, like putting a small nozzle on the
shopvac.

Vic



with the shopvac it will. with the DC it won't.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Just for ****s and giggles, I put a 4" to 2.5" reducer onto the end of
my 1.5 hp dust-collector hose, and it choked it down alright.

There are a few applications where 2.5" makes sense. A router table fence
and a drill press are two examples. The dust collector is a centrifugal
machine. Most dust collectors will actually work better for these small
hose applications if you open up another hole somewhere in your system.
I've been doing some testing with the 4" - 2.5" reducer for a router table.
When I run it and open up the gate to the bottom of my table saw (another
trunk line in the system), the dust collector picks up speed noticeably and
the suction increases.

If you have a dust collector with one of the dual 4" Y connections, pull it
off and put on a piece of 6" hose. It is totally awesome. Be sure there are
no small cats or dogs in the area. They might get sucked up.

Bob

wrote in message
ups.com...

choking down from 4" to 2" will lose you a lot of the benefits of the
DC. it will work, but is unlikely to perform better than the shopvac.
figure on setting up 4" ports on all of the machines you can, even if
you have to cut some sheetmetal.

I actually did some testing recently along those lines. I have one of the
"6 HP" (ha!) ridgid shop vacs with 16 gal tank - typical animal with good
capacity. I've been using it for the top of the router table. I tried the
DC with 4" to 1.5" reducer. The shop vac won. Then I tried the DC with 4"
to 2.5" reducer. The DC won - signficantly better than the shop vac. 4" is
great but just too big for a router table fence. Sometimes you have to
compromise. I do have 4" hose to a pick up above the tablesaw, however.
:-)

Bob

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
. ..

I would think that choking down to 2" would give better suction. What
comes
to mind - a 4" water hose, if choked down will become a high pressure
hose.
Wouldn't the reverse apply for suction? Obviously I know nothing about
moving air but it just *seems* logical, like putting a small nozzle on the
shopvac.

It gives a higher velocity at the opening, but does not move any more air.
Dust collection is a low pressure high volume application. You have to move
the volume to move the dust fast enough on some machines. At low pressures,
its legitimate to compare water and air for understanding. Now to
illustrate what I am talking about, look at your various water hose
applications. Fill up a barrel with a 1/2" hose and with a 3/4" hose. The
3/4" hose will win every time. Then think about the size of a fire hose
where the application requires huge amounts of water. A dust collection
application is more like a fire hose than a garden hose.

Bob

If you have a dust collector with one of the dual 4" Y connections, pull it
off and put on a piece of 6" hose. It is totally awesome. Be sure there are
no small cats or dogs in the area. They might get sucked up.

Bob

I wish I could!! I got one of the JDS DCs with the two 4" Ys, but the
main they connect to is only a 5 incher. I bought a length of 5" hose,
and I reduce to 4" right at the tool itself.

In retrospect, I wish I had gotten a DC with a 6" main, because at
least you can find 6" tool ports for them.

However, even with a 5" hose, it can still suck a bass boat half-way
down!

wrote in message
oups.com...

However, even with a 5" hose, it can still suck a bass boat half-way
down!

A bass boat????!!! Now that's pure redneck suction. I am blown, er sucked
away.

Bob

"Rocky" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have seen much on this group on how much efficiency will be achieved
if I change from my current Sears shop vac and 2" blast gates and
piping system to a real DC system. Since most of my tools are
Craftsman, will I need to modify the tool ports to make them larger?
Any info on what others have done would be appreciated.

Rocky

Everyone talked about the size difference, but no one addressed the
compatibility issues. What brand of DC are you getting? You'll need either
the Jet/Craftsman adapter or the Delta/Craftsman adapter. Unless you have
the older style Craftsman that use grounded vents. Just clean them with
acetone (being careful not to get it on your hands) before connecting
another brand of DC.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:16:58 GMT, "BillyBob"
wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...

choking down from 4" to 2" will lose you a lot of the benefits of the
DC. it will work, but is unlikely to perform better than the shopvac.
figure on setting up 4" ports on all of the machines you can, even if
you have to cut some sheetmetal.

I actually did some testing recently along those lines. I have one of the
"6 HP" (ha!) ridgid shop vacs with 16 gal tank - typical animal with good
capacity. I've been using it for the top of the router table. I tried the
DC with 4" to 1.5" reducer. The shop vac won. Then I tried the DC with 4"
to 2.5" reducer. The DC won - signficantly better than the shop vac. 4" is
great but just too big for a router table fence. Sometimes you have to
compromise. I do have 4" hose to a pick up above the tablesaw, however.
:-)

Bob



I use a 4" hose to the router table, set so the open end of the hose
is right over the cutter. this is the best collection I've been able
to come up with for the application.

wrote in message
news
I use a 4" hose to the router table, set so the open end of the hose
is right over the cutter. this is the best collection I've been able
to come up with for the application.

I've messed around and done the same thing. It was impressive. But that was
when my router table had $30 worth of parts in it. Now that I've got over
$400 in it, I have to look slick, don't you know.

Bob

Thanks for all the input. My shop is fairly small and most of my work
is fine dust from cutting balsa for model airplane building. Home
improvement projects and some other wood working make the regular
sawdust but I don't generate much in the way of chips (no lathe or
planer). That being said and not having a dust collector currently, do
I invest in something that has a built in cyclone or just go with the
dual bag types. I like a clean shop.

On 13 Oct 2005 18:55:31 -0700, "Rocky" wrote:

Thanks for all the input. My shop is fairly small and most of my work
is fine dust from cutting balsa for model airplane building. Home
improvement projects and some other wood working make the regular
sawdust but I don't generate much in the way of chips (no lathe or
planer). That being said and not having a dust collector currently, do
I invest in something that has a built in cyclone or just go with the
dual bag types. I like a clean shop.


the cyclone really comes into play with chips. if you make a lot of
fine dust get good filters and leave it at that.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

Everyone talked about the size difference, but no one addressed the
compatibility issues. What brand of DC are you getting? You'll need
either
the Jet/Craftsman adapter or the Delta/Craftsman adapter.

You lost me, Edwin. What kind adaptor are you talking about? What's the
brand of DC have to do with connection to a tool? I thought dust collection
was done with fittings that almost fit plus a hacksaw and duct tape.

Bob

"BillyBob" wrote in message

You lost me, Edwin. What kind adaptor are you talking about?

Edwin's pulling your DC hose.. errr leg, as usual ... not to mention that if
you "clean" most any DC "adaptor" with acetone it'll disappear on you.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/17/05

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"BillyBob" wrote in message

You lost me, Edwin. What kind adaptor are you talking about?

Edwin's pulling your DC hose.. errr leg, as usual ... not to mention that
if
you "clean" most any DC "adaptor" with acetone it'll disappear on you.

Whoosh! The sound of sharp dialogue flying over my head at Mach II speed.
I'm too serious in my reading sometimes.

Bob

"Rocky" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for all the input. My shop is fairly small and most of my work
is fine dust from cutting balsa for model airplane building. Home
improvement projects and some other wood working make the regular
sawdust but I don't generate much in the way of chips (no lathe or
planer). That being said and not having a dust collector currently, do
I invest in something that has a built in cyclone or just go with the
dual bag types. I like a clean shop.

I have a two lines off my dust collector - one through the cyclone and one
straight. The straight line is dedicated to the bottom of the table saw - a
source of fine dust and no chips and it works well. I don't think you need
a cyclone. I originally had none. I put one in to catch the cutoff pieces
that kept getting sucked up by the nozzle on top of the table saw. I got
tired of the "bang, bang, bang, CLONG" sound that happened when a little
piece of oak disappeared and rattled along the DC network until it finally
went through the impellor of the DC!

Bob

BillyBob wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

However, even with a 5" hose, it can still suck a bass boat half-way
down!

A bass boat????!!! Now that's pure redneck suction. I am blown, er sucked
away.

Bob

Yeah, I was thinking about substituting "Jet Ski," but it didn't really
have the same ring to it, you know?

On 13 Oct 2005 09:26:07 -0700, "Rocky" wrote:

I have seen much on this group on how much efficiency will be achieved
if I change from my current Sears shop vac and 2" blast gates and
piping system to a real DC system. Since most of my tools are
Craftsman, will I need to modify the tool ports to make them larger?
Any info on what others have done would be appreciated.

Rocky

Just a note: 4" is fairly standard for real dust collectors but still
imposes quite a bit of efficiency loss. IMO the definitive web site on
dust collection for home woodshops is Bill Pentz' site, you will find
it referred to frequently on the wreck:

http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm