Personally just "discovered" them ... and even though it is a messy affair,
I can't believe I've let all these years go by without paying them much
attention.

It was a David J. Marks episode, that I finally got around to transferring
from DVR to DVD, that was the catalyst ... that, a dearth of sheet goods, no
supplier's open today, and a yen to do something, anything, in the shop,
despite the heat. (Actually, I trained for the heat yesterday afternoon by
digging a few 3 foot deep post holes, in the sun, in Texas, in August - part
of each through a foot of compacted, buried oyster shell - the 98 degree
shop was cool today by comparison)

My chisels are shaving sharp with just a few minutes spent on each, and an
old, el cheapo block plane that someone thought they were favoring me with,
and that's been hanging around for years, was actually doing what a plane is
supposed to do in about 30 minutes ... not quite the paper thin shavings
that my Veritas and old Stanley's put out, but amazing for such a cheap
tool.

I still don't like to sharpen, but this was almost enjoyable, and might even
get better when I actually know what I'm doing.

Thus far I've got an 800, 4000, 6000, and a naguro for the fine.

.... on the way to buy SWMBO a new cookie sheet to replace the one I stole
from the kitchen.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/31/05

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

Thus far I've got an 800, 4000, 6000, and a naguro for the fine.

I just have a 1200/8000 combo waterstone and I've been pretty satisfied with
what I can do with it. I recently got the new veritas guide and that made
it a whole lot sweeter. I *almost* don't mind sharpening now. Now if
someone could come up with a fast reliable way to flatten the back of a
chisel, I would be happy.

Bob

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

Snip of a bunch of stuff.


My chisels are shaving sharp with just a few minutes spent on each, and an
old, el cheapo block plane that someone thought they were favoring me
with,
and that's been hanging around for years, was actually doing what a plane
is
supposed to do in about 30 minutes ... not quite the paper thin shavings
that my Veritas and old Stanley's put out, but amazing for such a cheap
tool.

I still don't like to sharpen, but this was almost enjoyable, and might
even
get better when I actually know what I'm doing.

Thus far I've got an 800, 4000, 6000, and a naguro for the fine.

... on the way to buy SWMBO a new cookie sheet to replace the one I stole
from the kitchen.

I cracked up laughing when I realized that it was you! When I read your
name as the OP after reading your discovery of this new delight, I sprayed
the screen. I'd thought your being the perfectionist and me having seen the
quality of your work, how did he get by before now??
I found these stones about 14 years ago. Amazing how quietly the chisels
sharpen to that kind of edge. Quite messy but keep them in a Tupperware
container to catch the water and its a bit easier. Nothing like a mirror
surface on the back of the irons and chisels.
Well I soon tired of the whole affair but would not give up on water stones.
Wait till you get your hands on a Tormek. Yeah...fast, less messy,
expensive. LOL

"BillyBob" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

Thus far I've got an 800, 4000, 6000, and a naguro for the fine.

I just have a 1200/8000 combo waterstone and I've been pretty satisfied
with
what I can do with it. I recently got the new veritas guide and that made
it a whole lot sweeter. I *almost* don't mind sharpening now. Now if
someone could come up with a fast reliable way to flatten the back of a
chisel, I would be happy.

Bob

Flatten your chisel and plane irons on FLAT water stones. Really not a
problem.

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:09:11 GMT, the opaque "BillyBob"
clearly wrote:

Now if
someone could come up with a fast reliable way to flatten the back of a
chisel, I would be happy.

Can you say "DMT"? I knew you could. For flattening, though,
you could use a nice coarse set from www.harborfreight.com .
$12.99 or less on sale, which is often.

#36196-6VGA 3-pc 1x3" set $7.99
#36799-3VGA 3-pc 2x6" set $12.99
Ooh, here's a new one I hadn't seen until now:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92867
It's a 2x6" 4-diamond-sided block with 200, 300, 400, and 600 grit
plates on it. Cool. $14.99 One of these would be good for taking
chips out of good irons before sharpening them on the 600 grit DMT
and 1,200 grit Scary Paper(tm) before stropping.

--
"I'm sick and tired of having to rearrange my life
because of what the STUPIDEST people *might* do or
how they *might* react."
-- Bill Maher

"Leon" wrote in message
t...

someone could come up with a fast reliable way to flatten the back of a
chisel, I would be happy.

Bob

Flatten your chisel and plane irons on FLAT water stones. Really not a
problem.

Note that I said "Fast". I know I can get there with water stones, scary
sharp, etc. but none of these is very fast for flattening.

Bob

Suface grinder. You could probably find a good used one for about $3000.00
to $5000.00.
\
"BillyBob" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Leon" wrote in message
t...

someone could come up with a fast reliable way to flatten the back of
a
chisel, I would be happy.

Bob

Flatten your chisel and plane irons on FLAT water stones. Really not a
problem.

Note that I said "Fast". I know I can get there with water stones, scary
sharp, etc. but none of these is very fast for flattening.

Bob

Bob,

With a 1200 it will take you a long time. Get a 200 grit water
stone...it will show you how fast is fast. If you're not paying
attention you could change the angle of the bevel pretty quick! :-)

Layne

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 02:47:12 GMT, "BillyBob"
wrote:


Note that I said "Fast". I know I can get there with water stones, scary
sharp, etc. but none of these is very fast for flattening.

Bob

Swingman,

Spend a little more and get an 8000 stone. If you're amazed now wait
till you hone on an 8000....in fact, I'd forego the 6000 and jump from
4000 to 8000.

My friend gave me a CRKT knife saying it doesn't get very sharp. I put
it to a 4000 stone and it'll slice through a paper's edge. :-)

Layne

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 17:56:23 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

snip
Thus far I've got an 800, 4000, 6000, and a naguro for the fine.

... on the way to buy SWMBO a new cookie sheet to replace the one I stole
from the kitchen.

Note that I said "Fast". I know I can get there with water stones, scary
sharp, etc. but none of these is very fast for flattening.

Bob


Continuous surface diamond plates are fast, I just got a DMT Diasharp 600 grit.
Sharpening a knife takes about four to five strokes per side to gain a real
beginning edge, I was happy with that. There are also the japanese Kanaban soft
steel plates that you apply diamond grits to, those should be fast too I trust, but
never tried yet.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Ahhh... Shapton ceramic compostite...Hello. This is the way to go with
DMT Diamond 200 grit for flattening. Less mess and you don't have to
soak them just use a spray then go to a Takenoko 8000. I could shave a
rabbits testicles after working a blade with this group. Not that I've
ever done that.

"Layne" wrote in message
...
Bob,

With a 1200 it will take you a long time. Get a 200 grit water
stone...it will show you how fast is fast. If you're not paying
attention you could change the angle of the bevel pretty quick! :-)

Yes, I knew 1200 was too fine and I've never tried it. I did flatten one
chisel with 100 grit sandpaper on glass. It took forever. Would the 200
grit waterstone be significantly faster? I also saw the suggestion for an
extra coarse diamond stone. Diamonds are reputed for speed, but not fine
finish - for flattening that's ok. I guess I'll get out my wallet and try
one of these options.

Bob

"Leon" wrote in message

Wait till you get your hands on a Tormek. Yeah...fast, less messy,
expensive. LOL

You got one? ... I'll be right over.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/31/05

"Leon" wrote in message
I cracked up laughing when I realized that it was you! When I read your
name as the OP after reading your discovery of this new delight, I sprayed
the screen. I'd thought your being the perfectionist and me having seen
the
quality of your work, how did he get by before now??
I found these stones about 14 years ago.

LOL. What can I say, I'm a cautious man who stays away from the bleeding
edge and I make damn sure technology works before I leap ... hell, it's only
been a couple of years since we moved the outhouse inside.

.... now, if I can just figure out how to get it to drain outside.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/07/05

I've got the diasharp course 3" x 8" stone, it is still slow to flatten
plane backs. I think an 80 grit drywall screen to be faster, then
moving up the sequence.

After going to 180, I use my diasharp, then onto the Shaptons. Only
takes a few seconds each after the 80 grit gets you flat. You have to
be carefull with chisels so as to not dub the sides on the back, with
the SS method.

Alan

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message

Wait till you get your hands on a Tormek. Yeah...fast, less messy,
expensive. LOL

You got one? ... I'll be right over.


Yes I do..for about 4 years now. With all the attachments that you could
get with it then. Let me know if you want to come over and use it. ;~)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message
I cracked up laughing when I realized that it was you! When I read your
name as the OP after reading your discovery of this new delight, I
sprayed
the screen. I'd thought your being the perfectionist and me having seen
the
quality of your work, how did he get by before now??
I found these stones about 14 years ago.

LOL. What can I say, I'm a cautious man who stays away from the bleeding
edge and I make damn sure technology works before I leap ... hell, it's
only
been a couple of years since we moved the outhouse inside.

... now, if I can just figure out how to get it to drain outside.

Drain? Just put a deep hole in the floor under it. LOL

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 17:56:23 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

Personally just "discovered" them ... and even though it is a messy affair,
I can't believe I've let all these years go by without paying them much
attention.

It was a David J. Marks episode, that I finally got around to transferring
from DVR to DVD, that was the catalyst ... that, a dearth of sheet goods, no
supplier's open today, and a yen to do something, anything, in the shop,
despite the heat. (Actually, I trained for the heat yesterday afternoon by
digging a few 3 foot deep post holes, in the sun, in Texas, in August - part
of each through a foot of compacted, buried oyster shell - the 98 degree
shop was cool today by comparison)

My chisels are shaving sharp with just a few minutes spent on each, and an
old, el cheapo block plane that someone thought they were favoring me with,
and that's been hanging around for years, was actually doing what a plane is
supposed to do in about 30 minutes ... not quite the paper thin shavings
that my Veritas and old Stanley's put out, but amazing for such a cheap
tool.

I still don't like to sharpen, but this was almost enjoyable, and might even
get better when I actually know what I'm doing.

Thus far I've got an 800, 4000, 6000, and a naguro for the fine.

... on the way to buy SWMBO a new cookie sheet to replace the one I stole
from the kitchen.


I've been using the King stones, through to the G-1 for quite a few
years.

I keep the stones that aren't mounted to wood in a drywall bucket, so
they are always wet. The S-1 and the G-1 don't need this but the more
porous stones can take a bit of time to go from dry to useable, if you
don't keep them soaked.

I have found that it is worth flattening these stones on some 600 wet
or dry, laid on a piece of 1/2" float glass, to get them flat before
use - and to flatten them again, when you are done.

I have a cedar board that I routed out to create a well for the stones
to sit in. It helps to keep them from sliding around when you bear
down on them during your figure eights. I clamp the board to the
bench and have a go at them.

The use of the nagura can take some getting used to, in my experience.
I find that rubbing it flat on one side, and making sure that the fine
stone is flat, goes a long way towards bringing up a good even paste,
and making the job go right.

Some guys will take the paste from one stone to the next finer one,
but I've never been a fan of this. It seems to me that the iron
should be cleaned before going on.

It is messy, but it ain't no messier than an oil stone, and your wife
will holler a lost less about water stains than oil ones, I suspect.

BTW - please don't take that woman's kitchen implements no more,
lessin' you want her to start borrying yer drill and a fair sized
spade bit ta whip taters with.

(that's a bad road to start down -damhikt)



Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)

snip

BTW - please don't take that woman's kitchen implements no more,
lessin' you want her to start borrying yer drill and a fair sized
spade bit ta whip taters with.

(that's a bad road to start down -damhikt)



Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)

or the router to whip up some heavy cream with the wire whisk:-)
Joe

Thus far I've got an 800, 4000, 6000, and a naguro for the fine.

I just have a 1200/8000 combo waterstone and I've been pretty satisfied
with
what I can do with it. I recently got the new veritas guide and that made
it a whole lot sweeter. I *almost* don't mind sharpening now. Now if
someone could come up with a fast reliable way to flatten the back of a
chisel, I would be happy.

Bob


Bob...

Look for a "friend of a friend" that happens to be a machinist...chances are
pretty good that s/he will have access to a surface grinder. It's realy
quite easy to do, altho the easiest way requires grinding the sides of
chisels so they might wind up a little thinner than you started, but it does
make it faster. It's how I do my chisels...granted, I have no mortice
chisels that I need to be too concerned about the width.

Mike

No threat of that. Near as I can tell, you can't buy heavy creme in the US.
What we used to call milk is now half and half.

"Joe Gorman" wrote in message
...

or the router to whip up some heavy cream with the wire whisk:-)
Joe

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 00:49:22 GMT, "CW" wrote:

No threat of that. Near as I can tell, you can't buy heavy creme in the US.
What we used to call milk is now half and half.


That is damned funny, and all too true.

Good one, CW.




Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)

Depends on what they do but around here, the machine shop that has a surface
grinder is the exception, not the rule. We have one but we have a complete
die shop.
Why grind the sides? I don't.

"The Davenport's" wrote in message
...

Look for a "friend of a friend" that happens to be a machinist...chances
are
pretty good that s/he will have access to a surface grinder. It's realy
quite easy to do, altho the easiest way requires grinding the sides of
chisels so they might wind up a little thinner than you started, but it
does
make it faster. It's how I do my chisels...granted, I have no mortice
chisels that I need to be too concerned about the width.

Mike

"CW" wrote in message
nk.net...
No threat of that. Near as I can tell, you can't buy heavy creme in
the US.
What we used to call milk is now half and half.

You can still buy "whipping" cream. Not the same as heavy cream?
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 00:49:22 GMT, "CW" wrote:

No threat of that. Near as I can tell, you can't buy heavy creme in the
US.
What we used to call milk is now half and half.


That is damned funny, and all too true.


Reminds me of a job I had at a cafeteria when I first came to the city from
living on a farm. I tasted the milk and told the mangement that something
was wrong with it. They tasted it and said it was fine. And they ran around
and had a number of people taste it to make sure. Then they asked me why I
thought it was bad.

I told them that it was watered down. They asked me where I was from. I told
them a farm. They all laughed. They went on to inform me that this was the
city. And they did things differrent than the farm. It bacame something of
a stnding joke that I was from the farm. Nothing hurtful. Just some
cityslickers asking all kinds of questions about another kind of life.

I used to work on dairy farms. And the milk would foam up because of the
high butterfat content. Even so called "whole" milk is watered down and has
cream taken out of it.

Remeber when you could buy juice that had particulate matter in it and was
thick? Now all you can buy is the strined, watered down pretend juices.

"Lee Michaels"wrote in message

I used to work on dairy farms. And the milk would foam up because of the
high butterfat content. Even so called "whole" milk is watered down and
has
cream taken out of it.

Wonder how many folks remember the glass milk bottles with the cream bulb in
the neck?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/07/05

"Swingman" wrote
"Lee Michaels"wrote in message

I used to work on dairy farms. And the milk would foam up because of the
high butterfat content. Even so called "whole" milk is watered down and
has
cream taken out of it.

Wonder how many folks remember the glass milk bottles with the cream bulb
in
the neck?

Or the friendly milkman coming by your house to deliver the milk?

I have the Kitayama Super Polishing Stone from Japan Woodworker. Funny
I could have sworn mine was #8000 grit, but on JW's website it's
graded at #12000...still 8000 or 12000 my tools are unbelievably sharp
after I get rid of the fine grind marks left by the 4000 stone.

Layne

On 6 Aug 2005 22:24:07 -0700, "rickluce"
wrote:

Ahhh... Shapton ceramic compostite...Hello. This is the way to go with
DMT Diamond 200 grit for flattening. Less mess and you don't have to
soak them just use a spray then go to a Takenoko 8000. I could shave a
rabbits testicles after working a blade with this group. Not that I've
ever done that.

I do. Out to the front porch every morning to the milk box.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Lee Michaels"wrote in message

I used to work on dairy farms. And the milk would foam up because of the
high butterfat content. Even so called "whole" milk is watered down and
has
cream taken out of it.

Wonder how many folks remember the glass milk bottles with the cream bulb
in
the neck?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/07/05

Nope. Used to buy whipping cream and you had to get it out of the container
with a spoon. No where near that today. I still use my grandmothers ice
cream recipe. To get it to come out right, I have to cut the amount of milk
in half and double the amount of cream called for. We have a dairy right
down the road. They deliver. They claim their products are the way they used
to be. Ya, like the used to be last year. Might as well by it in the store.


"D. J. MCBRIDE" wrote in message
...

"CW" wrote in message
nk.net...
No threat of that. Near as I can tell, you can't buy heavy creme in
the US.
What we used to call milk is now half and half.

You can still buy "whipping" cream. Not the same as heavy cream?
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

"CW" wrote in
nk.net:

Nope. Used to buy whipping cream and you had to get it out of the
container with a spoon. No where near that today. I still use my
grandmothers ice cream recipe. To get it to come out right, I have to
cut the amount of milk in half and double the amount of cream called
for.

Gee, since we;re already way off-topic, what's your grandmother's ice cream
recipe? One of my best memories of childhood is sitting on the back stoop
at my great-grandparent's house hand cranking on the ice cream churn. Only
the kids that took a turn on the crank got a bowl!

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:30:46 GMT, "BillyBob"
wrote:

Yes, I knew 1200 was too fine and I've never tried it. I did flatten one
chisel with 100 grit sandpaper on glass. It took forever. Would the 200
grit waterstone be significantly faster? I also saw the suggestion for an
extra coarse diamond stone. Diamonds are reputed for speed, but not fine
finish - for flattening that's ok. I guess I'll get out my wallet and try
one of these options.

Flattening with sandpaper can take a long time if you don't change the
sandpaper often. The sandpaper will dull and clog with slurry. When
you use the higher grit SP for sharpening it kind of gives you a false
sense that your edge is getting sharper because it looks shinier. But,
really the edge is being polished by the slurry and not getting any
sharper. An edge sharpened on a higher grit waterstone will look
duller, but will actually be sharper. Like Steve Knight says, "Shiny
does not mean sharp."

The 200 grit stone will cut very fast. But depending on your tools and
technique the waterstone can go "unflat" quickly too. Be sure to check
for flatness as you use the stone(s).

Diamond stones are great, but to me they're expensive for flattening
plane irons and chisels, but are good for flattening waterstones. If
you do get a diamond stone get one with monochrystaline diamonds as
opposed to polychrystaline. The diamonds are uniform on mono and they
wear longer.

Also, let the waterstone do the work. Don't apply too much pressure.
Same applies to diamond stones.

Layne

Swingman wrote:

"Lee Michaels"wrote in message


I used to work on dairy farms. And the milk would foam up because of the
high butterfat content. Even so called "whole" milk is watered down and

has

cream taken out of it.


Wonder how many folks remember the glass milk bottles with the cream bulb in
the neck?

And cold winter mornings when it would rise up like a creamcycle?

Glen

"Layne" wrote in message

Diamond stones are great, but to me they're expensive for flattening
plane irons and chisels, but are good for flattening waterstones. If
you do get a diamond stone get one with monochrystaline diamonds as
opposed to polychrystaline. The diamonds are uniform on mono and they
wear longer.

I would assume that a lower grit diamond would be what you want for
flattening waterstones? What grit would you recommend?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/07/05

Swingman wrote:


I would assume that a lower grit diamond would be what you want for
flattening waterstones? What grit would you recommend?


I use an XC, the coarsest DMT.

"B a r r y" wrote in message
Swingman wrote:


I would assume that a lower grit diamond would be what you want for
flattening waterstones? What grit would you recommend?


I use an XC, the coarsest DMT.

Thank you!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/07/05

Lee Michaels wrote:
Or the friendly milkman coming by your house to deliver the milk?

Or getting chunks of ice from him on hot summer days.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use: daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

Dan Major wrote:
Gee, since we;re already way off-topic, what's your grandmother's ice cream
recipe? One of my best memories of childhood is sitting on the back stoop
at my great-grandparent's house hand cranking on the ice cream churn. Only
the kids that took a turn on the crank got a bowl!

Seconded! A good ice cream recipe would be a great thing to have. I'm
really tired of this ice milk stuff they sell.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use: daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

And the rubber disk on metal handle to stop the milk from pouring when
the bottle was tilted. I remember turning the ICE sign as it hung in
the window to let the ice man know how much ice you wanted carried
into the house.

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 23:10:46 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:


"Swingman" wrote
"Lee Michaels"wrote in message

I used to work on dairy farms. And the milk would foam up because of the
high butterfat content. Even so called "whole" milk is watered down and
has
cream taken out of it.

Wonder how many folks remember the glass milk bottles with the cream bulb
in
the neck?

Or the friendly milkman coming by your house to deliver the milk?

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 23:10:46 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:


"Swingman" wrote
"Lee Michaels"wrote in message

I used to work on dairy farms. And the milk would foam up because of the
high butterfat content. Even so called "whole" milk is watered down and
has
cream taken out of it.

Wonder how many folks remember the glass milk bottles with the cream bulb
in
the neck?

Or the friendly milkman coming by your house to deliver the milk?




I was the friendly milkman for a number of years !