Hi,

I'm planning to renovate my kitchen this Fall, and in an effort to save
money, I want to paint the existing cabinet frames, and purchase and
paint new cabinet doors. The existing cabinets are custom-built Oak,
with a honey-stain and satin(?) clear finish, which I assume is
polyurethane.

To prep the frames for painting, I see several options: (1) strip off
the clear finish chemically, (2) sand the clear coat finish, (3) take
my chances and try to prime directly to the finish, or (4) etch the
finish. Options 1 and 2 will make a big mess, but I don't really trust
3, and don't know much about 4. Anyone have experience "etching" a
finish to make it primer-ready? What products would you recommend?

To get a good paint job, I plan to prime with BIN (2 coats), paint with
water-based flat paint (2 coats), then finish with Minwax Polycrylic
water-based semi-gloss clear finish (1 coat). I've experimented with
this combination and it looks nice, and seems to be much more durable
than paint alone. If anyone has comments or suggestions about this
plan, let me know.

Finally, can anyone recommend a good source for the new doors? I know
there are many out there, just looking for a recommendation.

Thanks,
EC

In article .com,
wrote:

Hi,

I'm planning to renovate my kitchen this Fall, and in an effort to save
money, I want to paint the existing cabinet frames, and purchase and
paint new cabinet doors. The existing cabinets are custom-built Oak,
with a honey-stain and satin(?) clear finish, which I assume is
polyurethane.

To prep the frames for painting, I see several options: (1) strip off
the clear finish chemically, (2) sand the clear coat finish, (3) take
my chances and try to prime directly to the finish, or (4) etch the
finish. Options 1 and 2 will make a big mess, but I don't really trust
3, and don't know much about 4. Anyone have experience "etching" a
finish to make it primer-ready? What products would you recommend?

To get a good paint job, I plan to prime with BIN (2 coats), paint with
water-based flat paint (2 coats), then finish with Minwax Polycrylic
water-based semi-gloss clear finish (1 coat). I've experimented with
this combination and it looks nice, and seems to be much more durable
than paint alone. If anyone has comments or suggestions about this
plan, let me know.

Finally, can anyone recommend a good source for the new doors? I know
there are many out there, just looking for a recommendation.

Thanks,
EC

Hi EC,

About 1.5 years ago I refinished our kitchen cabinets - face frames and
doors. We elected to keep the same basic color - stained oak. What I did
was to remove all the doors/hardware and then clean all surfaces with
#0000 steel wool dipped in mineral spirits - several times. Then I
went over everything with a matching stain and finally 2-3 coats of
wipe-on poly. They look like new cabinets - especially since we upgraded
the hardware too.

I think stripping would be a mess. I think that you would be fine using
fine sandpaper and/or steel wool (us sandpaper if using water based
paint to avoid any rust staining).

As far as buying doors, I referred a neighbor of mine to Rockler
for some raised panel oak doors. They were about 12x24 and ran close to
$50 each (unfinished). I helped him with the installation so I was happy
to see that the doors were first rate - nicely sanded and solid. They
also sell paint grade for less $.

Lou

wrote:
Hi,

I'm planning to renovate my kitchen this Fall, and in an effort to
save money, I want to paint the existing cabinet frames, and purchase
and paint new cabinet doors. The existing cabinets are custom-built
Oak, with a honey-stain and satin(?) clear finish, which I assume is
polyurethane.

To prep the frames for painting, I see several options: (1) strip off
the clear finish chemically, (2) sand the clear coat finish, (3) take
my chances and try to prime directly to the finish, or (4) etch the
finish. Options 1 and 2 will make a big mess, but I don't really trust
3, and don't know much about 4. Anyone have experience "etching" a
finish to make it primer-ready? What products would you recommend?

Tri-sodium phosphate (TSP)
___________________


To get a good paint job, I plan to prime with BIN (2 coats), paint
with water-based flat paint (2 coats), then finish with Minwax
Polycrylic water-based semi-gloss clear finish (1 coat). I've
experimented with this combination and it looks nice, and seems to be
much more durable than paint alone. If anyone has comments or
suggestions about this plan, let me know.

Well, flat latex is certainly better than a gloss or semi-gloss since it
is semi-sandable due to all the talc in it but basically I can't see how
anybody expects to get a good finish on wood with *any* latex paint.

To me, a "good paint job" (on wood) is one that is smooth and uniform
regardless of the sheen. To get same, one starts with a smooth, primed
surface (sanded baby ass smooth), paints with something that self levels
well, smooths again, paints, etc. Latex is basically unsandable and
doesn't level well (always shows brush marks).

I understand why you want to clear topcoat with something harder but why
not just use a more suitable paint in the first place? An alkyd or
urethane paint...

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH,
Regarding paint choice... just ignorance on my part. I've worked with
Latex paints many times, but never with Alkyd or Urethane paints. Are
these the same as oil-base paints? Would the primary advantage of these
be better leveling, better hardness? Can I find these products in HD /
Lowes or should I go to a specialty paint store? Thanks for your
responses.
-EC

dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
Hi,

I'm planning to renovate my kitchen this Fall, and in an effort to
save money, I want to paint the existing cabinet frames, and purchase
and paint new cabinet doors. The existing cabinets are custom-built
Oak, with a honey-stain and satin(?) clear finish, which I assume is
polyurethane.

To prep the frames for painting, I see several options: (1) strip off
the clear finish chemically, (2) sand the clear coat finish, (3) take
my chances and try to prime directly to the finish, or (4) etch the
finish. Options 1 and 2 will make a big mess, but I don't really trust
3, and don't know much about 4. Anyone have experience "etching" a
finish to make it primer-ready? What products would you recommend?

Tri-sodium phosphate (TSP)
___________________


To get a good paint job, I plan to prime with BIN (2 coats), paint
with water-based flat paint (2 coats), then finish with Minwax
Polycrylic water-based semi-gloss clear finish (1 coat). I've
experimented with this combination and it looks nice, and seems to be
much more durable than paint alone. If anyone has comments or
suggestions about this plan, let me know.

Well, flat latex is certainly better than a gloss or semi-gloss since it
is semi-sandable due to all the talc in it but basically I can't see how
anybody expects to get a good finish on wood with *any* latex paint.

To me, a "good paint job" (on wood) is one that is smooth and uniform
regardless of the sheen. To get same, one starts with a smooth, primed
surface (sanded baby ass smooth), paints with something that self levels
well, smooths again, paints, etc. Latex is basically unsandable and
doesn't level well (always shows brush marks).

I understand why you want to clear topcoat with something harder but why
not just use a more suitable paint in the first place? An alkyd or
urethane paint...

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

wrote:
dadiOH,
Regarding paint choice... just ignorance on my part. I've worked with
Latex paints many times, but never with Alkyd or Urethane paints. Are
these the same as oil-base paints? Would the primary advantage of
these be better leveling, better hardness? Can I find these products
in HD / Lowes or should I go to a specialty paint store? Thanks for
your responses.

Yes, both are oil based paints, just different resins. My preferance is
for alkyd because it generally seems to flow better. A lot depends on
the brand though, I've used poly that was fine and alkyd that wasn't.

As you surmised, their advantages are better leveling and hardness.
Durability/washability too. You should be able to find them at any
place that sells paint.

One applies them a bit differently though...

1. Use a good, natural bristle brush (next best after a sprayer).

2. With latex, you kinda have to push a semi-gelatinous mass around with
a brush. With oil paint, flow the paint on....keep the brush at a
rather low angle and move it slowly. Your goal is to have an even
thickness everywhere....don't apply so much that it wants to run or
drip...keep a wet edge, blend lightly (brush tips only) perpendicular to
each stroke so the edges feather out thinner one over its neighbor, then
tip off again lightly and fairly rapidly in the original direction.

3. It is very helpful (with latex too) to work toward a window or
artificial light so that the reflection of same in the wet paint shows
you missed areas.

4. Best results will be achieved if what you are painting can be
horizontal.

5. The finished job can only be no better than the surface being
painted. If it is not smooth or has brush marks (in the primer) they
will still be there after the paint has dried and shrunk skin tight.

6. If, after painting and your best efforts and sufficient coats (2-3),
the finished surface isn't as smooth as you like or if there are dust
spots, you can rub it down with #0000 steel wool after it is thourghly
dry (a week or so); that will give a low luster surface which can be
brought up to a greater shine with wax or finer polishing compounds
(like auto rubbing compound et al).

A truly *good* paint job is both rare and a thing of beauty. Last time
I saw the painted kitchen cabinets in the house where I grew up they
were still in good-excellent condition...they had been painted only once
about 50 years previously.


--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

wrote in news:1120576037.614361.9350
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

dadiOH,
Regarding paint choice... just ignorance on my part. I've worked with
Latex paints many times, but never with Alkyd or Urethane paints. Are
these the same as oil-base paints? Would the primary advantage of these
be better leveling, better hardness? Can I find these products in HD /
Lowes or should I go to a specialty paint store? Thanks for your
responses.
-EC

One of the better visits you can make, at this stage of your project, is to
find a good 'painters' paint store', and make friend of a couple of the
counter staff who have been at this for a while. They may give you a
'decorator's card', entitling you to some discount from regular prices, but
they will also be able to steer you to the products which work most
reliably for your applications, and perhaps recommend pros who can help you
with work that may be beyond your capabilities, whether equipment, time or
physical strength.

I've excellent results with Kelly Moore and ICI-Dulux. There are others,
and they tend to be regional.

There's reasonably good paint to be had at the Borg, and even at WalMart,
but the quality & quantity of the information is sometimes sketchy.

Good luck with the project.

Patriarch

Thanks for the great information! I'll pick up some of the paints you
suggested this weekend for experimentation. One other question: the
wood grain of the cabinet frames has typical Oak features, meaning it
is porous / loose grain. I expect that when I paint over this, I will
still see the grain surface irregularities through the paint. I thought
it might be wise to use some kind of filler to fill in these
imperfections. What do you think? Again, thanks for the great info.
EC

wrote:
Thanks for the great information! I'll pick up some of the paints you
suggested this weekend for experimentation. One other question: the
wood grain of the cabinet frames has typical Oak features, meaning it
is porous / loose grain. I expect that when I paint over this, I will
still see the grain surface irregularities through the paint.

Depends...

I thought it might be wise to use some kind of filler to fill in these
imperfections. What do you think? Again, thanks for the great info.

A heavy bodied, *sanding* primer should fill the grain, might take two
coats. It is easy to tell...if the grain still shows after getting the
primer smooth you need another coat. Note that you want a *sandable*
primer for that...many/most primers don't sand very well even sanding
wet. One that does is made by Interlux - it was especially formulated
for priming Philippine mahogany on boats. It dries fast, sands
wonderfully and is horribly expensive (last I checked around
$80/gallon). I am sure there are others.

One easy way to tell if the surface is smooth is to prime and sand then
prime again (spray can works well) with a different color primer. Sand
again...if you can remove all of the colored primer without cutting
through to wood the surface is good.

An alternative filler is "grain filler". It is made for open grain
woods, usually is silex in naptha. Wipe it on like stain, wipe off.
Often used for filling open grain woods under a clear finish but AFAIK
you could use paint instead of a clear coat.

Note too that some people like seeing the wood texture under paint. Not
me.


--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico