We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

todd

Todd Fatheree wrote:

We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

todd

When we built a couple years ago, I thought about building the kitchen
cabinets. I looked at prices from mail order outfits, including those
that supplied melamine or ply boxes and you add the fronts. As far a
price goes, I could save a bit just based on the wood and hardware costs
(the prefab boxes were probably a wash if you don't mind melamine). The
major difference was time. If I build them, it's going to take a fair
amount of time (I'm basically lazy). Plus I had a bunch of built ins
for books and electronics and the shop cabinets that I needed. We took
a vote and it was 2-zip to go with some Orange Borg cabinets. They
proved to be quite satisfactory (self installed) and LOML could unpack
all the cooking stuff the day we moved in. :-)

my opinion only,
jo4hn

I do kitchen cabinets and my prices are quite reasonable. I typically
charge 4 to 5 times my cost in materials. I beat the pants off of similar
prefab cabinet pricing and installation. If you can do it, you will come
out thousands ahead.


"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets
and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to
make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

todd

"jo4hn" wrote in message
ink.net...
Todd Fatheree wrote:

We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our
home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items
I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets
and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way
I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to
make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge.
I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base
and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

todd

When we built a couple years ago, I thought about building the kitchen
cabinets. I looked at prices from mail order outfits, including those
that supplied melamine or ply boxes and you add the fronts. As far a
price goes, I could save a bit just based on the wood and hardware costs
(the prefab boxes were probably a wash if you don't mind melamine). The
major difference was time. If I build them, it's going to take a fair
amount of time (I'm basically lazy). Plus I had a bunch of built ins
for books and electronics and the shop cabinets that I needed. We took
a vote and it was 2-zip to go with some Orange Borg cabinets. They
proved to be quite satisfactory (self installed) and LOML could unpack
all the cooking stuff the day we moved in. :-)

my opinion only,
jo4hn

Thanks, this is the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I'll certainly have
other projects that I can do, so I need to choose my projects wisely. We
don't even have a rough design from the architect yet, so I don't have
anything to take to the local Borg to have them whip up a design to get a
ballpark on. I'll keep your thoughts in mind.

todd

Nothing like having you and jo4hn on opposite ends of the spectrum! ;-) To
be honest, I figured it would work out closer to your end, but I guess I'll
have to work the numbers both ways.

todd

"Leon" wrote in message
m...
I do kitchen cabinets and my prices are quite reasonable. I typically
charge 4 to 5 times my cost in materials. I beat the pants off of similar
prefab cabinet pricing and installation. If you can do it, you will come
out thousands ahead.


"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our
home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items
I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets
and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way
I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to
make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge.
I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base
and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

todd

In article ,
"Leon" wrote:

I do kitchen cabinets and my prices are quite reasonable. I typically
charge 4 to 5 times my cost in materials. I beat the pants off of similar
prefab cabinet pricing and installation. If you can do it, you will come
out thousands ahead.


I'm installing a solid surface countertop, Thursday, on a set of
cabinets bought from HD. When I took the template last week, I got into
a lenghty discussion with the home-owner about the saving etc.
He popped open his laptop and showed me about a dozen spreadsheets. That
couple sure did their homework. Very revealing, to say the least.
Bottom line?
They ended up with a new 16ga undermount stainless steel sink, 20 feet
of solid surface material (mine) installed, a set of Kohler taps and all
the taxes paid...basically for free.
You bet your a*ss it's worth it. They learned as they went along....took
their time.

A jigsaw and a cordless drill. Period.

He did mention he had some issues regarding the sizes of the cabinets he
ordered, delaying the completion by about 3 weeks. Home Depot's fault on
2 cabinets, one fault his, and one mislabelled.

Todd Fatheree ) wrote on Tuesday 05 April 2005 10:33 pm:

We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets
and that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the
way I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to
make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

todd

Todd,

I just recently had to replace the kitchen cabinet underneath the sink due
to water damage. At first, I looked into replacing it. I figured I'd look
for the cheapest one the same size, and re-use the old front (too old to
match any more). It looked like about $300 or so, because no one was
willing to part with just the back.

So I re-built. A single 4x8 sheet of decent 3/4" cabinet plywood cost me
about $45 at Lowes and was more that enough. Going 1/2" should be even
cheaper and more than good enough for most other applications. I used some
contaminated polyurethane I had lying around as a sort of
stain/waterproofing. I damaged the face some when I removed it from the
old cabinet, and spent $7 or so on wood filler and a matching stain.

As for the face, that's something that depends on exactly what you want.
Painted MDF is cheap and easy and works fine in some environments. Maybe
cost you a total of $55 for a 34" -cabinet with materials and all (hinges,
paint, handles, etc...). Start using some really nice hardwood, and your
costs can go up significantly. You'll have to price that yourself.

Also, don't forget any time you'll need for router work (prep and actual
work), along with the necessary purchase of new bits.

Another thought - what about re-using and re-finishing your old cabinet
faces? That'll really cut your costs.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer

I (we) have a $30,000 kitchen (1). I (we) spent around
$15,000 (ish).

(1) Actually it's hard to say. I (we) never had it priced
out but from what I (we) have seen the project would have
been somewhere between $25,000 and $35,000.

UA100

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets
and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to
make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

Absolutely worth it, IMO ... and it's not so much the "markup", but the
customized _quality_ you can impart to the boxes that you simply can't
easily find at any price these days. Even if you sub out the doors and
drawer fronts, you will unquestionably come out ahead with custom,
built-for-your-space, boxes.

Building roughly a house a year (in the $700K range) the past few years, as
of a couple of years ago I started doing the kitchens myself as well (AAMOF,
I am working on one as we speak), and wouldn't take the time out of a very
busy schedule to do it without good reason. I can unequivocally, hands down
beat the subs in this area with regard to their workmanship, and in the
process stick an extra $5 - $15K in my pocket for a few weeks work (even
with subbing out the doors and drawer fronts to a local custom door company,
or as I did on my house, supplying them with the materials and have them use
their shapers to mill the door and drawer fronts parts for my assembly).

Give it serious consideration ... if you have a copy of CutList Plust and
can open .dwg files, I'll be glad to send you the files on the current
kitchen I am working on at the moment so that you can see for yourself what
is involved.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"Swingman" wrote in message ...

Give it serious consideration ... if you have a copy of CutList Plust and
can open .dwg files, I'll be glad to send you the files on the current
kitchen I am working on at the moment so that you can see for yourself what
is involved.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04



Swingman,

I've been working on plans for a kitchen remodel myself. I would appreciate it if you could send me your .dwg files to look at.

My email addy is areidjr at reid-home dot com.

TIA,

--

Al Reid

I rebuilt my kitchen the hard way. I tore the end of my house off and put it
back. Seriously.

I never did get a hard quote on someone -else doing it, but I can give you
my cost numbers:

Scope:

* 8' bank of uppers (6 doors)
* 8' bank of lowers (6 doors/6drawers)
* 8ish ' bank of lowers (4 doors 8 drawers)
* 3'x4' (base) island (3 drawers 3 doors)
* 18" built-in cabinet floor to ceiling (2 doors)
* 24" built-in cabinet counter to ceiling (roll-top/tabbour door + open
shelves)

materials: Maple-veneer ply (3/4 for carcases, 1/2 for backs 1/4 for door
panels)
solid maple for face frames drawers and door frames.

4 years ago I paid about : $800 for sheet stock (average $57/sheet), $700
for solids (3.40/bf) About $500 for hinges drawer slides knobs and pulls (I
did not buy high-end hardware... 3/4 extension slides/ $2 knobs).

BTW: these guys have the excellent selection of hardware, decent prices and
a *really* useful search engine.
http://www.thehardwarehut.com/index.php
rant-on It ****es me off when I have to page through knobs based
manuufacturer. I could give a Sh*t who made it.... show me all the round
satin nickel ones rant-off No, I am not affiliated.

So my material cost was about $2K. This does *not* include and counter top
costs or plumbing fixtures. It also does not include any tooling costs.

Can you save money. *but* answer these first:

Do you have the skills?
How much additional tooling will you require?
Can you prebuild and store these components prior to demolition?
Can your family tolerate your folly? - this is really the big one

Since my project was really building an addition which included a kitchen, I
had a whole set of additional issues to deal with. The project went months
beyond schedule, but this had it's upside. The delays let me build up more
cash reserves to upgrade to granite counters and allowed me to get the
ass-kick'n pro-style range hood.

I "justified" my upgrade to a cabinet saw with this project. I also upgraded
my planer. Stuff I would have bought eventually anyway, so I can't really
charge that completely as a project expense.

Let me know if you would like any more data.

Also, don't underestimate the value of getting *exactly* what you want. If
you want 14-3/8" wide doors so that it will work out that all the doors are
identical, making the kitchen look all that more integrated... then you can
have it!

-Steve

I am in about two weeks starting major kitchen remodeling which will include
tearing down everything, including floor and garden window. I will be doing
everything myself with my Dad's help. My wife and I recently visited about 6
showrooms that sell high end kitchen cabinets. We never planned to buy
cabinets just wanted to see the styles. Custom kitchen cabinets in NYC Metro
area start at about $1600 per linear foot, those that we liked with carvings
and moldings were for $2K per linear foot. It is just cabinets with no
countertops or undercabinet lights. So for my not big kitchen 12 X 12 sqft
only cabinets would cost around $45K. I already ordered cherry which will be
used for face frame, doors, moldings, etc. and hard maple which I will use
for drawer sides and shelves. Total cost is $2000. I need about 8 sheet of
plywood another $400 or so. Cabinet hardware (slides, hinges, two lazy
susans, knobs, etc.) and finish will add between $500 and $1000. As you see
total cost I estimate will be around $3500 at worst. In addition to
substantial savings I will do exactly the dimensions and styles I want which
I believe is not possible with factory made cabinets even custom ones unless
you higher a private cabinet maker but then cost will be even higher. Entire
cost of kitchen remodeling by DIY according to my budget that I created will
be around $15K compared to $70K+ by hiring contractor.

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets
and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to
make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

todd

Todd,

During my sister-in-laws kitchen remodeling, I "volunteered" to do the
kitchen cabinets. Ended up that I made around 40 raised panel cabinet doors,
a dozen new drawers and a couple of 7' long raised panels from hell for a
storage cabinet. The cabinets themselves were in good shape and made from
solid pine and those were kept but sanded and painted. They live in a log
cabin style home and the painted cabinets (moss green) against the stained
logs look great.. She has a good eye for decorating and colors.

Cost of materials was around $550 for poplar (raised panels) and white ash
(frames) and included Euro hinges, door pulls plus finishing materials.

We had the same list priced out at the borg. No hardware, no finishing
included, plus shipping cost (?) but their quote for unspecified hardwood
wood frames with MDF raised panels was close to $3,000 with tax. A
significant difference but follows what one other poster said - materials
plus a 4 or 5 times multiplier.

And yes... I used the opportunity to pick up a few new router bit sets and
some extra K-Body clamps too. Since I did this on a catch-as-catch can
basis for time, I really didn't keep track of the hours but they were done
in two months spare time in my small shop. That time included going to the
mill, picking out the kiln dried, rough sawn lumber, milling it myself,
letting it acclimate, final milling, cutting, routing, panel glue-ups,
sanding, and assembly. Also made 15' of fancy trim she wanted for her
spanky new (bumped-out) kitchen window. On-line price was $5 per foot and I
made it out of left over poplar and the cost of a router bit I needed ($15)
to mold part of the profile.

On average, material cost for a raised panel cabinet door with Euro hinges
and a ceramic pull came to $11 per door - using poplar and ash. If she had
wanted oak - the cost was about $15 per door and for cherry, nearly $20. We
have an excellent mill within a 30 minute drive that has reasonable prices
and that definitely helped in keeping costs down.

Bob S.


"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets
and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to
make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

todd

Also made 15' of fancy trim she wanted for her
spanky new (bumped-out) kitchen window. On-line price was $5 per foot and
I
made it out of left over poplar and the cost of a router bit I needed
($15)
to mold part of the profile.

Bob makes a good point here. Doing your own makes it fairly simple to
incorporate some design elements from the cabinets into the room trim. IMHO
this is a nice benefit that you could only otherwise get by paying for a
full-custom cabinet install (not a semi-custom order from the borg)

-Steve

I have done the numbers several times. You can save a
bunch of money by doing it yourself BUT based on my
experience and the other stories told here, you might
want to consider the following:

1. Time issues (can you work in a hurry ?)
2. Space issues (where do you put an extra kitchen ?)
3. Finishing (Do you know to spray and do you have tools ?)
4. Materials (Do your own doors or hire it out?)
5. Pressure (Destroy existing kitchen and live at same time)
6. Skills (Design and install-looks easy on tv doesn't it?)
7. Can you buy decent materials "easily" on a local basis ?

The single biggest issue I have seen discussed here, has been
a very simple one... T I M E . Can you work a normal job and
come home to a wrecked kitchen for several days/weeks/months/years
on end without creating a little strife in the old homestead ?

Just remember, when you take down the kitchen, the entire house
comes to a screeching halt.

How do you handle MAJOR problems while under pressure ???
(Ex: What do you mean the new refrigerator will not fit ?)

You can save a lot of money, but how you do that has several
options attached.

I think we all believe in our heart we can do it, but then
that litte voice keeps saying "Let's be careful what we say".

(I am faced with the "exact same problem" this year or next.)


Todd Fatheree wrote:

We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen.

"Al Reid" wrote in message

I've been working on plans for a kitchen remodel myself. I would
appreciate it if you could send me your .dwg files to look at.

My email addy is areidjr at reid-home dot com.

Check your inbox ... hopefully I translated your e-mail address correctly.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"Swingman" wrote in message ...

"Al Reid" wrote in message

I've been working on plans for a kitchen remodel myself. I would
appreciate it if you could send me your .dwg files to look at.

My email addy is areidjr at reid-home dot com.

Check your inbox ... hopefully I translated your e-mail address correctly.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04




Thanks. I'll check it when I get home.

--

Al Reid

Unisaw A-100 wrote in
:

I (we) have a $30,000 kitchen (1). I (we) spent around
$15,000 (ish).

(1) Actually it's hard to say. I (we) never had it priced
out but from what I (we) have seen the project would have
been somewhere between $25,000 and $35,000.

UA100


Heck, you probably have that much invested in vintage iron!

Does it look as nice as the opera house? ;-)

Patriarch

1. I agree that time is probably the key factor. I think the only way this
will work is if I get a big head start.
2. The new kitchen will be fully housed in the new addition, so we don't
have to worry about space issues or how the current kitchen will be
affected.
3. I'm going to be visiting my cousin who runs a woodworking business next
month. He sprays a lot of precat lacquer, so I'd like to get some pointers
from him and practice spraying.
4. I'd probably do my own doors, which I've done before.
5. N/A
6. Covered.
7. The materials are readily available.

Thanks,
todd

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
I have done the numbers several times. You can save a
bunch of money by doing it yourself BUT based on my
experience and the other stories told here, you might
want to consider the following:

1. Time issues (can you work in a hurry ?)
2. Space issues (where do you put an extra kitchen ?)
3. Finishing (Do you know to spray and do you have tools ?)
4. Materials (Do your own doors or hire it out?)
5. Pressure (Destroy existing kitchen and live at same time)
6. Skills (Design and install-looks easy on tv doesn't it?)
7. Can you buy decent materials "easily" on a local basis ?

The single biggest issue I have seen discussed here, has been
a very simple one... T I M E . Can you work a normal job and
come home to a wrecked kitchen for several days/weeks/months/years
on end without creating a little strife in the old homestead ?

Just remember, when you take down the kitchen, the entire house
comes to a screeching halt.

How do you handle MAJOR problems while under pressure ???
(Ex: What do you mean the new refrigerator will not fit ?)

You can save a lot of money, but how you do that has several
options attached.

I think we all believe in our heart we can do it, but then
that litte voice keeps saying "Let's be careful what we say".

(I am faced with the "exact same problem" this year or next.)


Todd Fatheree wrote:

We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our
home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen.

Give it serious consideration ... if you have a copy of CutList
Plust and
can open .dwg files, I'll be glad to send you the files on the
current
kitchen I am working on at the moment so that you can see for
yourself what
is involved.

Swingman,

Could I also get a copy of the file? I'm considering building a new
house and always like to see what others are doing.

email -- darwincam at gmail.com

Thank you!

Darwin

Todd,

I'm wondering if anyone who has built kitchen cabinets ever broke down
the cost to buy vs. the cost to make

We built our own kitchen cabinets for a variety of reasons.

1. We built the house ourselves, so building the cabinets seemed a
necessity.

2. We wanted the cabinets to look "rustic", but not junky. Anything even
approaching this look commercially was very expensive. We built our own out
of birch plywood and pine boards we bought from Lowes. The look is exactly
what we were looking for.

3. The commercial cabinets we looked at were rather cheaply built. Lots of
particle board, cheap drawer slides (or none at all), many staples, plastic
pieces, etc.

4. Commercial cabinets come in selection of "fixed" sizes (24" wide, 26"
wide, 28" wide, etc.). Since kitchens are rarely exact multiples of these
sizes, you end up having to use filler strips that just waste space. By
building ourselves, I was able to build cabinets the exact sizes we needed
(i.e. 29.5" wide) with no filler strips. No wasted space.

5. Building our own cabinets allowed us to include features that aren't
available in commercial cabinets. For instance, an extra deep base cabinet
next to the refrigerator to allow the fridge more room, or the full height
pantry cabinet next to the refrigerator, or the 5 foot wide base cabinet
that lets us reach back into the corner easily, or the custom corner
cabinet under the corner sink, or the bathroom cabinet with the drawer that
fits around the sink (no wasted space behind a dummy panel). You get the
idea...

I probably built a couple of cabinets (depending on size) out of a $50
sheet of 3/4" birch plywood, a $20 sheet of 1/4" birch ply, and $20 worth
of pine boards. That same $90 would only buy one really cheap particle
board cabinet from the home centers. But, there's a lot variables when you
are comparing costs. Commercial cabinets may end up costing less, but they
certainly won't be made as well at the same price levels. You get what you
pay for...

If you have the time, tools, and basic skills, I vote for building your own
cabinets. If you're in a rush, or have limited experience, buying ready
built cabinets might be a better option.

Anthony

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 07:33:17 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets
and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the way I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to
make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge. I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build base and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.


Don't know about a large square kitchen shape, but in ours - a small
galley kitchen with two sets of triangular cabinets to miss the doors
- we were quoted something ridiculous (£1400) for a custom install,
and I made the cabs, bought the doors for a ttal of about £300.

One thingI will say - get the missus involved in the planning - if she
don't like it she won't use it!!!!

BTDT! Kitchen Craft was what we ended up with as my knees and
inexperience ruled me out. Would never select them again and didn't
this time the certifiable kitchen designer is affiliated with them, a
sub I'm convinced. Original schedule from demolish to a viable
kitchen was doubled in time scheduled which I believe was part of the
smoke and mirrors approach of the design/manufacture/contractor
"team". Wife was very patient and we "lived" in the garage where I
had put in a sink and drainboard for ceramics years ago. Hate to
consider what we'd have done without the sink! About like camping in
the garage without the forest and mountain air to enjoy. After they
left I built full extension drawers above the deep oven/fridge that we
enjoy. Didn't end up with deep storage that gets accessed once per
year at XMAS but have access to items we can get to without a step
stool. Drawer under the smooth cooktop was cut down to fit under the
cooktop and ended up as the ideal place to store small spice jars and
stuff, right where they're used.

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:43:44 GMT, Pat Barber
wrote:

Just remember, when you take down the kitchen, the entire house
comes to a screeching halt.

"Todd Fatheree" wrote:

Snip

So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost to make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-).
/snip

Ah, that's the big question isn't it? The value of your time. If I remember
my econ 101, that's called opportunity cost. If you weren't building kitchen
cabinets, what would you be doing? If you would be engaged in something that
made more money than the cabinets cost to buy, then (all else being equal)
you'd be better off to buy them. On the other hand, if you come home at
night and build cabinets rather than watch the tube, you are much farther
ahead to build them yourself.

For me, the pluses that would lean me towards making them myself a

1) Personal satisfaction
2) I don't think they are that hard to build.

From the viewpoint of "your time has no value", just the lumber & hardware
will be way less than purchasing an equal quality cabinet. Plus, you might
be able your convince your significant other that you need this new tool,
but look at how much money you're saving

--
San Diego Joe

Todd Fatheree wrote:

there's a lot of markup in kitchen cabinets and that perhaps there is
not only the opportunity to make something the way I want, but also
to save some bucks.

If you build them yourself you will...

1. Save BIG bucks

2. Have - maybe - far better, more useful cabinets than you would have
if purchased.

I can't give you a cost comparison because I never even considered *not*
building them Used 3/4 mel board for the cases, solid butternut for the
face frames, doors, drawers etc. Most storage is in the base cabinets
and each of those has either pull out shelves or a bigger, compartmented
pull out. All drawers are compartmentalized with moveable partitions.

There are 35 running feet of base cabinets (including 3'x5' island) and
17 running feet of uppers. Total cost including hardware (just slides
and hinges), tile for all counter tops, a custom fabricated SS stove
hood, 8 gallons of lacquer and incidentals was $3,984 about seven years
ago. Of that, $1,800 was for the butternut, about 800 bf.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

on 4/6/2005 2:33 PM nospambob said the following:
BTDT! Kitchen Craft was what we ended up with as my knees and
inexperience ruled me out. Would never select them again and didn't
this time the certifiable kitchen designer is affiliated with them, a

Comments about the kitchen being the house are very valid. OTOH, if
you're inclined to do it yourself you DO save a ton of money, you have
or should have EXACTLY what you want, and YOU control the delays.

In our case, the makeover involved taking a 30 year old kitchen down to
the studwalls (not bare walls, stud walls). Changed the ceiling a bit
with addition of soffit and downlighting, skylights, new floor, etc.
Added two additional circuits to the already well-supplied room.

We knew we would be "roughing it" for a bit as this was a DIY project.
Through some good job planning on my part, we only "lost" the kitchen
for six days and, at that, all we lost was the kitchen sink. Had I been
a bit more industrious and desirous of duplicating my work by removing
and replacing the existing sink while we waited for the Corian
countertops with integral sink to be fabricated, we could have had near
full use of the kitchen without interruption.

Our only break in service came from the time I yanked the old sink wall
base cabinets and sink out and installed the new. No sink from the time
the fabricator came in and did his measurements till he delivered six
days later.

Knowing this would be the one "open" spot I couldn't control, lessened
the delay since I really wasn't at the mercy of some contractor who
could care less that we were washing dishes in a bathtub, etc. I had a
lock on the fabricator coming in on Monday morning so, guess what? The
sink base, etc. was removed on Sunday afternoon and evening and the new
base installed.

No matter who does the work, you're likely going to lose the kitchen for
a couple of days. I happen to believe we suffered less at my hands than
we would have - sans taking a cruise while the work was being done - at
the hands of a contractor.

Not to mention all the fun I had (and the sliding compound miter saw, a
pneumatic nailer, etc. that the project "required"g).

"San Diego Joe" wrote in message

1) Personal satisfaction
2) I don't think they are that hard to build.

This is the thinking that I subscribe to, although I dream of something on a
much larger scale. My dream is to when I finally buy my first house, to have
just the bare shell of a house. Water and electrical roughed in, at least
one working toilet and that's it. Lock me in there, throw in some pizza and
beer every few days and let me build the inside of the house. I can't think
of too many things I'd find more enjoyable. I know it sounds boring, but
there you are.

Patriarch wrote:
Does it look as nice as the opera house? ;-)

'Fraid not.

UA100

Getting lots of replies .

We are doing a bit of a remodel to our house. This includes turning a
room that wasn't a kitchen into a kitchen - so our old kitchen is in
service until the new one is complete.

I went to one of the high-end cabinet makers in town with plan in hand
- as created by SWMBO. This is a cherry shaker design. He didn't due
a detailed bid, but he guestimated about $12K - $14K for the cabs and
another $2k for installation. We also went to a couple of the custom
kitchen retailers that sold Dynasty and Omega and they came in about
$1K or $2K cheaper. I didn't price cabs at the borg, but I didn't see
anything there that I really wanted in my kitchen. I expect that they
would have come in a bit under $10K.

I costed out the materials using prefinished maple ply for the carcases
to lessen finishing requirements and using Waterlox for all the cherry
bits. My costing included the blum tandem full extension undermount
slides that run close to $30/pair and a few other pricey gadgets like a
$150 mixer stand thingy.

Anyway, my total cost came to about $4500. I probably cannot build
cabs as good as the custom guy would have (I've seen his work at a
friends house). But I know that my cabs will be better than anything I
can get at the borg and anything that I saw from Dynasty or Omega. I
figure that I will be saving about $8K - $10K which will go right to a
nice new Wolf range (to replace the Magic Chef that has been destroying
my food for the last 10 years) and granite countertops.

Building the cabs is not difficult, BUT it is a lot of work and is
taking me quite a bit of time - ymmv. In my case, I am building all of
the doors and drawers. This has certainly added a lot to the overall
time I have spent on the project. I think I have spent more time
prepping materials than I have actually building stuff.

I am building face frame cabinets using the methods described in Jim
Tolpin's _Building Traditional Kitchen Cabinets_

Have a go at it. But be prepared to spend all of your weekends and
evenings building cabinets for the next month or two or more...


Todd Fatheree wrote:
We're sometime this year going to embark on a major addition to our
home.
Part of that will include a completely new kitchen. For other items
I've
built, mainly furniture, I've never looked at it as much as saving
money
(which I'm sure I haven't) as I have at getting something exactly
like I
want and the satisfaction of building something myself. However, I
have
this sneaking suspicion that there's a lot of markup in kitchen
cabinets and
that perhaps there is not only the opportunity to make something the
way I
want, but also to save some bucks. So, I'm wondering if anyone who
has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost
to make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-). SWMBO
isn't
exactly on board with my little project, but if I can same some money
on
cabinets, I might be able to trade her for a fancy schmancy fridge.
I've
built cabinets for the shop in exactly the same way I would build
base and
upper kitchen cabinets, so I'm confident I could make them.

todd

Anxious to hear more. This was something I looked at as well.

I'm installing a solid surface countertop, Thursday, on a set of
cabinets bought from HD. When I took the template last week, I got
into
a lenghty discussion with the home-owner about the saving etc.
He popped open his laptop and showed me about a dozen spreadsheets.
That
couple sure did their homework. Very revealing, to say the least.
Bottom line?
They ended up with a new 16ga undermount stainless steel sink, 20
feet
of solid surface material (mine) installed, a set of Kohler taps and
all
the taxes paid...basically for free.
You bet your a*ss it's worth it. They learned as they went
along....took
their time.

So, the home owner DID install HD cabinets? But with spreadsheets and
research, proved to you, that they could have saved thousands?

Or they didn't install the HD cabinets and were able to purchase all
the extras with the savings?

A jigsaw and a cordless drill. Period.

What are you saying here?

He did mention he had some issues regarding the sizes of the cabinets
he
ordered, delaying the completion by about 3 weeks. Home Depot's fault
on
2 cabinets, one fault his, and one mislabelled.

This is what has me confused...the home owner did...or did not purchase
HD cabinets?

"Wyatt" wrote in message

Anyway, my total cost came to about $4500. I probably cannot build
cabs as good as the custom guy would have (I've seen his work at a
friends house). But I know that my cabs will be better than anything I
can get at the borg and anything that I saw from Dynasty or Omega. I
figure that I will be saving about $8K - $10K which will go right to a
nice new Wolf range (to replace the Magic Chef that has been destroying
my food for the last 10 years) and granite countertops.

Doesn't it come down the biggest benefit of all ~ the bragging rights
factor? If that's not worth something, then one might as well farm out as
much work possible and go do something else more enjoyable. Saving money is
nice, but if it's at the expense of not liking what you're doing, then it
only goes so far.

This is what has me confused...the home owner did...or did not purchase
HD cabinets?


Home owners bought RTA HD cabinets, and did the install themselves,
saving thousands... thousands which they spent on important upgrades.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...

This is what has me confused...the home owner did...or did not purchase
HD cabinets?


Home owners bought RTA HD cabinets, and did the install themselves,
saving thousands... thousands which they spent on important upgrades.

They could have saved thousands more had they had the equipment to build
them themselves. If they spent over $2000 for the average sized kitchen
with Oak cabinets and solid Oak Raised panel doors, NO plastic anywhere
including bracing, full extension hinges and Blum Euro hinges, they spent
more than they had to.

I have compared my pricing to the Borg pricing and I always win when
comparing apples to apples and quality and I am making a respectable profit.

Now if they did not have the time or skill I could understand the move.

I have built several sets of kitchen cabinets and always saved big time.

Last week I finished a 7 foot long base cabinet with 9 drawers and a
formica top.

It cost me around $175 to $200. Exact cost unkown since I used some
left overs for the interior bulkheads and formica top.

The only catch for me is door or drawer front style since that can call
for special tools or milling from a shop. I generally go with something
simple if I can talk SWMBO into it. One set had doors that were grooved
on a table saw using a molding head. My last project had oak plywood
drawer fronts with oak trim surrounding the edges.

I'd saw go for it if at all possible. Another big plus for me: I used
the latest project as an excuse for a Dewalt mitre saw and am extremely
happy with that also.

Good luck and have fun.

RonT

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in news:W46dnTOE3pQVxc7fRVn-
:

So, I'm wondering if anyone who has
built kitchen cabinets ever broke down the cost to buy vs. the cost
to make
(assuming, of course, that your own time has no value ;-).

We completed (OK, mostly completed so far) a kitchen remodel that was
estimated to run $5K plus. By doing all the work ourselves, we got
new floors (laminate), sink/DW/disposal, lighting, three new
cabinets, new counters, etc. for under $1,000. $450 of that was the
DW. New counters-- we ripped out the old tiled ones and started from
scratch -cost about $120 including the MDF, formica, and oak trim.

We didn't build new cabinets from scratch in this case; we saved
about 80% of the originals and added one antique we were able to
match by creating a new top to blend in. It was all pretty easy
though, enough so that I plan on doing all the cabinets in our next
house myself, probably in hickory. I'm guessing we can save about 80%
on the package if I buy rough lumber to start, and the whole mess
would be designed just as we want it and for our space.

Of course, I have 3-4 months "off" each year to work on such
projects. I'm supposed to be writing then, but I can only write
productively for 3-4 hours per day.

-Kiwanda

In article ,
"Leon" wrote:

Now if they did not have the time or skill I could understand the move.

Her quote: No time to 'really' get into it.

Personally, I was completely underwhelmed by the doors. Splitting
already.
I also have no idea where on the scale of HD products their selection
sits... if there even is a 'higher-end'.
I find everything expensive at HD.
My favourite, here in Kanuckistan, is 1/2 a sheet of 5/8" MDF is 27
dollars, a whole 4 x 8 sheet is 29 bucks. (Or something along those
lines..please don't flame me, folks.) the half sheets measures 48" x 48"
not 49 x 48 1/2"
I just don't know about that place. I much prefer Lowe's across the
river in Port Huron MI...10 minute drive..tops.

Leon wrote:
They could have saved thousands more had they had the equipment to build
them themselves.


Yahbut, that's like saying you're buying a boat to cut down
on the cost of fish. :-)

UA100

"Stephen M" wrote in message
...
I rebuilt my kitchen the hard way. I tore the end of my house off and put
it
back. Seriously.

snip

I "justified" my upgrade to a cabinet saw with this project. I also
upgraded
my planer. Stuff I would have bought eventually anyway, so I can't really
charge that completely as a project expense.
snip
-Steve

I like it , I use something similar on a regular basis to ease the
guilt(NOT) of being a tool whore. It also pacifies SWMBO on occasion.

Andrew

"Unisaw A-100" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
They could have saved thousands more had they had the equipment to build
them themselves.


Yahbut, that's like saying you're buying a boat to cut down
on the cost of fish. :-)

Yeah that did not come out quite right. If they had already had the
equipment, they wasted money by not using it.

=20
"Robatoy" wrote in message =
...
| In article ,
| "Leon" wrote:
|=20
| Now if they did not have the time or skill I could understand the =
move.
|=20
| Her quote: No time to 'really' get into it.
|=20
| Personally, I was completely underwhelmed by the doors. Splitting=20
| already.
| I also have no idea where on the scale of HD products their selection=20
| sits... if there even is a 'higher-end'.
| I find everything expensive at HD.
| My favourite, here in Kanuckistan, is 1/2 a sheet of 5/8" MDF is 27=20
| dollars, a whole 4 x 8 sheet is 29 bucks. (Or something along those=20
| lines..please don't flame me, folks.) the half sheets measures 48" x =
48"
| not 49 x 48 1/2"
| I just don't know about that place. I much prefer Lowe's across the=20
| river in Port Huron MI...10 minute drive..tops.

Must be nice living in Sarnia. I still miss the old Satellite Bar. Not =
to mention a few others.

--=20

PDQ
--