I stopped at HD over lunch today, and on my way out I see this kitchen
cabinet with no counter top. It's made of cheap melamine, and in the top
four corners were four thin little plastic triangles, STAPLED in place. I
guess they were there for strength.

Who conceives of these things?!

- Owen -

Owen,

I can't answer your question but I would guess that the accountants and the
MBA's of the company are the driving force. They won't stock something for
very long if they can't sell so many of them over a certain time period.
I'm sure they have some very specific stocking models that take into account
numerous factors to determine if an item is stocked or not.

Bottom line, if it doesn't sell well - they don't stock it. That means
those cheap cabinets you saw do sell. What that means is if you're looking
for quality, look someplace else cause that doesn't sell very well at the
borg's. Most contractors and DIY fixer-upper's want pricepoint - and could
care less about the quality.

The plastic triangles are used to help keep the sides from racking and are
used to secure the top to the base. A short screw thru the plastic to the
top and it keeps it from sliding around and falling off the edge of the
earth...

Bob S.


"Owen Lawrence" wrote in message
...
I stopped at HD over lunch today, and on my way out I see this kitchen
cabinet with no counter top. It's made of cheap melamine, and in the top
four corners were four thin little plastic triangles, STAPLED in place. I
guess they were there for strength.

Who conceives of these things?!

- Owen -

Your landlord buys these cabinets. He ordered one of those "get
rich quick by becoming a slum lord" programs on cable tv and is buying
low and renting high.
Just kidding.....or at least I hope it's not your landlord.
Robert

Owen Lawrence wrote:
I stopped at HD over lunch today, and on my way out I see this kitchen
cabinet with no counter top. It's made of cheap melamine, and in the top
four corners were four thin little plastic triangles, STAPLED in place. I
guess they were there for strength.

Who conceives of these things?!

- Owen -

In article , Owen Lawrence
wrote:

I stopped at HD over lunch today, and on my way out I see this kitchen
cabinet with no counter top. It's made of cheap melamine, and in the top
four corners were four thin little plastic triangles, STAPLED in place. I
guess they were there for strength.

Who conceives of these things?!

- Owen -


Hi Owen,

Most here on the wreck are spoiled - we expect good to
excellent construction in general.

I bought a vanity/sink combo at HD a few months ago
for a condo renovation. It was $99 for both items in
a single box.

I would never buy this for myself, but the market
is the market. It will last 10+ years. What more
could you want?

There is a place/price for most anything that's for
sale out there.

Me? I like to build my stuff out of real wood and use
the best stuff I can find.

I would bet that it's hard making a living doing that.

(I'm a retired hobbyist).

Lou

Like someone said here a while back:
"good, fast, cheap - pick any two"

I stopped at HD over lunch today, and on my way out I see this
kitchen
cabinet with no counter top. It's made of cheap melamine, and in the top
four corners were four thin little plastic triangles, STAPLED in place.
I
guess they were there for strength.

Who conceives of these things?!

- Owen -


Hi Owen,

Most here on the wreck are spoiled - we expect good to
excellent construction in general.

I bought a vanity/sink combo at HD a few months ago
for a condo renovation. It was $99 for both items in
a single box.

I would never buy this for myself, but the market
is the market. It will last 10+ years. What more
could you want?

Since I expect to last more than 10 years, I want my stuff to last more than
10 years. In fact, I want my stuff to last at least as long as my children
last. That's what I want. What do I expect? I'm learning. I now expect
everything I own to be garbage in ten years, except for the comptuers, which
seem to manage that feat in two. That means that whatever thing I plan to
have in my life, I need to amortize its cost over ten years, and expect to
pay that amount for the rest of my life, indexed for inflation or whatever.
It puts a sobering damper on dreams like the fully equipped workshop, for
example.

We're shopping for windows right now. We hope to move somewhere else in
maybe 8 or 9 years, but if I buy cheap now, they'll be showing their age
when I want to sell. Buying good will cost three times as much, but I'm
inclined to do so anyway. We might not be able to move; who knows. And as
I look around the house I see that I really want to renovate the TV room, a
bathroom or two, and the kitchen. But the joists under the kitchen seem
barely able to hold the weight of the fridge. To do a proper job means
rebuilding the entire house. It's overwhelming. For Get It.

It's really disappointing to see how you risk getting poorly made stuff
at every turn. I was actually in the store to buy a solid brass quick
disconnect for my garden hose. The other plastic ones I bought a few years
ago still work fine, but I'm not expecting them to last. When they fail,
they'll turn to brass, too. I felt very good about my purchase.

"If you can't afford to buy it once, you certainly can't afford to buy
it twice."

Anybody want to buy about a thousand books, several old computers, a SLR
camera and lenses, some synthesizers, and a mountain of kids' toys? $225k,
pre-packaged in a house. All (ahem) good.

- Owen -

Owen Lawrence wrote:

I stopped at HD over lunch today, and on my way out I see this kitchen
cabinet with no counter top. It's made of cheap melamine, and in the top
four corners were four thin little plastic triangles, STAPLED in place. I
guess they were there for strength.

Who conceives of these things?!

- Owen -

These are decisions made by actuaries. Buyers need to do some sort of
cost/benefit study including the need for longevity, reliability, and
appearance. If it works for you, buy cheap.
mahalo,
jo4hn

In article ,
"Owen Lawrence" wrote:

I stopped at HD over lunch today, and on my way out I see this kitchen
cabinet with no counter top. It's made of cheap melamine, and in the top
four corners were four thin little plastic triangles, STAPLED in place. I
guess they were there for strength.

Who conceives of these things?!

- Owen -

Hey, you saw a 'deluxe' model compared to some crap out there. I mean
not even melamine...paper pressed on particle board, without finished
edges on doors..and pieces of cardboard hot-melt glued in the corners
for 'strength'.
I have had to decline a few sales of my solid surface countertops
because there wasn't enough 'cabinet' to support it.... particularly in
the corner 'cabinets' made from a piece of cardboard tubing which looks
like Sonotube, but is a lot weaker than the real tubing.

Here's a quick, down and dirty fix. Don't go to Home Depot. If you
are held at gunpoint and forced in, avert your eyes.

Just remember, no one is forcing anyone to buy these terrible products.
They buy it out of ignorance or laziness.

Or maybe it is all they can afford. Or maybe it suits their purpose.

I think they should sell a Krenov style cabinet and then the
enlightened ones can buy those. I am sure that they could sell enough
to keep HD et. al. in business, aren't you? Then the great
unwashed/unsuspecting/enenlightned can go suck eggs looking for their
purpose built affordable cabinets.

BTW, you should try pulling one of those plastic corners apart, when it
has been installed properly.

Robert


Robert

loutent writes:


[...]

(I'm a retired hobbyist).

So instead of following your hobby you just sit and enjoy the result? ;-)
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

Owen Lawrence wrote:

"If you can't afford to buy it once, you certainly can't afford to buy
it twice."


Actually, many thousands of people can stretch to buy the cheap item
once, but can never come close to three times the price (or more) for
the top quality item. In a decade, they can probably afford another, by
continuing to stretch.

And an astonishing number of people remodel kitchens, including
cabinets, well inside the 10 year mark. One of my maternal aunts used
to insist on new appliances every five years, which sometimes made my
mother remark that she wished we were closer than 1500 miles, as the
old ones were always just fine.

"Charlie Self" wrote:
And an astonishing number of people remodel kitchens, including
cabinets, well inside the 10 year mark. One of my maternal aunts used
to insist on new appliances every five years, which sometimes made my
mother remark that she wished we were closer than 1500 miles, as the
old ones were always just fine.

Tell me about it. A while ago, I bought a co-op apartment. The building
had been completely renovated, and all the appliances (fridge, stove,
dishwasher, microwave, washer/dryer) were brand new. Nothing was top of
the line, but it wasn't junk either. 11 years later, we sold the place.
Everything was in working order, but showed 11 years of cosmetic wear and
tear.

After we accepted their offer, the buyer got an engineering inspection (not
an unreasonable thing to do, but the idea is to find hidden or unexpected
flaws). About all the inspector could find to complain about was that the
appliances were 11 years old and "nearing the end of their useful
lifetime". The buyer insisted on a reduction in price so they could buy
all new appliances.

Hi, Owen.

While I don't need the house, computers, or synthesizers, the SLR and
lenses might be appealing - if you were serious.

If so, send me an e-mail:

squanklin at yahoo

Thanks!
Frank

loutent says...


Most here on the wreck are spoiled - we expect good to
excellent construction in general.

I bought a vanity/sink combo at HD a few months ago
for a condo renovation. It was $99 for both items in
a single box.

I would never buy this for myself, but the market
is the market. It will last 10+ years. What more
could you want?

Would they stand up to a water mishap like leaky seals or a minor flood?
If not, then they are a poor purchase. You installed it yourself I
take it? What about cost of installation, if the little old lady who
buys it has to replace it? What about the headaches of loss of use,
clean-up or whatever when it does fail? Bedsides, this is America. We
can afford to buy better things once in a while. A good quality
vanity/sink wouldn't put a dent in the beer or spoil-the-grandkids
budget.

In article ,
says...


The plastic triangles are used to help keep the sides from racking and are
used to secure the top to the base. A short screw thru the plastic to the
top and it keeps it from sliding around and falling off the edge of the
earth...


--
Those flimsy plastic triangles haven't done a very good job of securing
the top to the base at my house. The plastic allowed enough play that
the corners of the top were free to move around a bit. Eventually that
movenment allowed the screw heads to break through the plastic web, with
the result that the corners are now free to move up and down. Gonna
make a few wooden triangles to replace those corner pieces, see if that
works any better.
--

Jerry Maple
General Dynamics C4 Systems
Scottsdale, AZ
--

Well....see...they did work. The top only moves around a little
bit.......;-)

Just place some silicon sealant along the top edge (between the underside of
the top and the base) and press it down. After it setup - it won't move.
Should you want to remove the top, slide a putty knife in and slide it along
to cut the sealant.

Bob S.


"Jerry Maple" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


The plastic triangles are used to help keep the sides from racking and
are
used to secure the top to the base. A short screw thru the plastic to
the
top and it keeps it from sliding around and falling off the edge of the
earth...


--
Those flimsy plastic triangles haven't done a very good job of securing
the top to the base at my house. The plastic allowed enough play that
the corners of the top were free to move around a bit. Eventually that
movenment allowed the screw heads to break through the plastic web, with
the result that the corners are now free to move up and down. Gonna
make a few wooden triangles to replace those corner pieces, see if that
works any better.
--

Jerry Maple
General Dynamics C4 Systems
Scottsdale, AZ
--

So here's the deal folks. At the big name places like Home Depot, Lowes,
Wal-Mart, K-Mart & whatever-Mart, you can buy really inexpensive items
(including, but not limited to kitchen cabinets). Who buys this stuff?
Guys like my father-in-law. He loves telling us about how he worked two
jobs when he was in his twenties--a day job working construction, and a
night job at the local steel mill. He brags about how he used to go to the
mill and sleep most of the time. The mill's closed now, of course, but
"It's the dammed Japanese" who took his job. He has voted the straight
Democratic ticket his whole life, and is an adamant Union supporter (and
life-long Union member). But he also revels in telling us what great
bargains he gets on stuff at Wal-Mart.

So that's the kind of people who buy this stuff....people who have
absolutely no contact with reality, and buy only on price....


"Owen Lawrence" wrote in message
...
I stopped at HD over lunch today, and on my way out I see this kitchen
cabinet with no counter top. It's made of cheap melamine, and in the top
four corners were four thin little plastic triangles, STAPLED in place. I
guess they were there for strength.

Who conceives of these things?!

- Owen -

So that's the kind of people who buy this stuff....people who have
absolutely no contact with reality

WOW!!!

So the only folks that shop at big volume low price places are lazy ass
slackers that belong to unions and vote the democratic ticket? You
aren't related to Howard Dean are you? Talk about out of touch with
reality...

Robert

Bruce T wrote:
So here's the deal folks. At the big name places like Home Depot, Lowes,
Wal-Mart, K-Mart & whatever-Mart, you can buy really inexpensive items
(including, but not limited to kitchen cabinets). Who buys this stuff?
Guys like my father-in-law. He loves telling us about how he worked two
jobs when he was in his twenties--a day job working construction, and a
night job at the local steel mill. He brags about how he used to go to the
mill and sleep most of the time. The mill's closed now, of course, but
snip

People who buy this are people who want to.
People who do not have an insight into how to tell a quality piece of
furniture from a POS.
People who see the price and compare it to another price of a similar
looking piece.
People who want to.
Step out of your shoes and into someone's who is totally ignorant of the
furniture trade and you probably would buy it to.
This same principle applies to other products as well.
Camera's - If know nothing about photography and and don't really care,
just want a snap shot occasionally buy a cheapo camera, otherwise spend
a months pay on one.

Basically who cares who buys what, each to his own, there's plenty to go
around so look after yourself and let the other bloke look after himself.

Gees, something musta touched a nerve in this thread. My soap box is
usually well out of site.

all the best
John

A few years back, my wife and I completely remodeled our kitchen. All
of the materials came from Home Depot. Our cabinets are all fine
quality plywood with solid wood frame and panel doors. They were built
in NC. I installed them myself and I am very happy with them.

I noticed during another remodeling job that Home Depot had particle
board bathroom vanities for sale. Right next to them were the good
quality plywood vanities that I bought.

I like the fact that HD stocks a range of different products and I can
choose fine quality at a reasonable price or el cheapo junk at a much
lower price. There have been times in my life when I would have been
happy to find cheap junk, because that is all I could afford.

I also like the fact that they stock power tools that range from
Chinese junk to Taiwanese made moderately priced imports, through fine
quality American and European made tools.

Owen Lawrence wrote:
I stopped at HD over lunch today, and on my way out I see this kitchen
cabinet with no counter top. It's made of cheap melamine, and in the top
four corners were four thin little plastic triangles, STAPLED in place. I
guess they were there for strength.

Who conceives of these things?!

- Owen -

Who conceives of these things?!

Its a group known as the New World Order. We meet by teleconference
once a month and think up new ways to irritate people. Ever heard of
Crazy Frog?

The kitchen cabinet thing is ancient, four five years at least. But
some of the best jokes are the long running ones. Have you noticed the
way that teenage girls now run around in jeans and tops that leave a
half inch gap at the midriff? That is one of our all time favourites.
Its getting to the point where it is impossible for women to buy real
clothes, thats why you see so many going round with an inch of flesh
exposed in the middle of January with snow on the ground.

On 1 Jul 2005 07:47:23 -0700, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
Who conceives of these things?!

Its a group known as the New World Order. We meet by teleconference
once a month and think up new ways to irritate people. Ever heard of
Crazy Frog?

There is no New World Order. By the way, you've got treats for next
month's meeting, I was asked to remind you.

The kitchen cabinet thing is ancient, four five years at least. But
some of the best jokes are the long running ones. Have you noticed the
way that teenage girls now run around in jeans and tops that leave a
half inch gap at the midriff? That is one of our all time favourites.

Me, I liked the whole "Badger badger badger mushroom mushroom" meme that
that one guy came up with as a joke project.

Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:


... Have you noticed the
way that teenage girls now run around in jeans and tops that leave a
half inch gap at the midriff? That is one of our all time favourites.
Its getting to the point where it is impossible for women to buy real
clothes, thats why you see so many going round with an inch of flesh
exposed in the middle of January with snow on the ground.

If girls gave each other wedgies that style would be long gone by now.

--

FF

(Keeping my hands to myself)

In article .com,
wrote:

So that's the kind of people who buy this stuff....people who have
absolutely no contact with reality

WOW!!!

So the only folks that shop at big volume low price places are lazy ass
slackers that belong to unions and vote the democratic ticket? You
aren't related to Howard Dean are you? Talk about out of touch with
reality...

Robert

I never knew that one has to be a lazy-ass union member to vote democrat.
So half of all Americans are lazy-ass unionized democrats?

I'm glad you have cleared that up for me, Robert.

In article .com,
"Charlie Self" wrote:

Actually, many thousands of people can stretch to buy the cheap item
once, but can never come close to three times the price (or more) for
the top quality item. In a decade, they can probably afford another, by
continuing to stretch.

My grandmother had a saying which I have lived by all my adult life:

"I'm too poor to buy cheap stuff."

On 1 Jul 2005 08:29:50 -0700, the opaque
spake:

Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
... Have you noticed the
way that teenage girls now run around in jeans and tops that leave a
half inch gap at the midriff? That is one of our all time favourites.
Its getting to the point where it is impossible for women to buy real
clothes, thats why you see so many going round with an inch of flesh
exposed in the middle of January with snow on the ground.

So much the better. I have warm hands.


If girls gave each other wedgies that style would be long gone by now.

Let's pray they never start, eh? domg

- This product cruelly tested on defenseless furry animals -
--------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Web App & Database Programming

In article . com,
wrote:

If girls gave each other wedgies that style would be long gone by now.

How could they do that to each other since they almost all seem to wear
visible thongs? Aren't they already self-wedgied with those? Some of
the ones wearing thongs are almost as disgusting as plumber
ass-cleavage in obese men.

Gerry

In article ,
"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:

If girls gave each other wedgies that style would be long gone by now.

How could they do that to each other since they almost all seem to wear
visible thongs? Aren't they already self-wedgied with those? Some of
the ones wearing thongs are almost as disgusting as plumber
ass-cleavage in obese men.

Gerry

MANY who wear that kind of provocative clothing shouldn't.

I live 3 minutes from a beach where it is legal for the ladies to go
topless... unfortunately, it's the ones with the brush-cuts and trucker
wallets wearing comfortable shoes that go topless... they really
shouldn't.

When that law was first passed, I nailed together a lemonade-style stand
selling suntan lotion. Big sign: "Suntan lotion, APPLICATION included,
$5.00!!"

It was only till after I offered to pay out 10 dollars that I got any
takers....

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:44:51 -0400, the opaque Robatoy
spake:

I never knew that one has to be a lazy-ass union member to vote democrat.
So half of all Americans are lazy-ass unionized democrats?

I'm glad you have cleared that up for me, Robert.

Yeah, and the other half are lazy-assed non-union repugnicans.

There are a few of us smart-assed, anti-union, small-gov't, anti-war,
pro-freedom, clear-headed libertarians around, too.

P.S: Good post, Robert!

- This product cruelly tested on defenseless furry animals -
--------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Web App & Database Programming

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:44:51 -0400, the opaque Robatoy
spake:

I never knew that one has to be a lazy-ass union member to vote democrat.
So half of all Americans are lazy-ass unionized democrats?

I'm glad you have cleared that up for me, Robert.

Yeah, and the other half are lazy-assed non-union repugnicans.

There are a few of us smart-assed, anti-union, small-gov't, anti-war,
pro-freedom, clear-headed libertarians around, too.

That might as well vote for Astro the dog. It would be nice to get someone
in ofice that wasn't from the Big Two but I doubt I'll ever see it.

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:19:47 GMT, Ba r r y wrote:
On 1 Jul 2005 07:47:23 -0700, "Phillip Hallam-Baker"
wrote:

Who conceives of these things?!

Its a group known as the New World Order.

A.K.A. "The Cabal"...

There Is No Cabal.

Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote:
Its a group known as the New World Order.
Ba r r y wrote:
A.K.A. "The Cabal"...

Never confuse the CABAL with The New World Order. The CABAL, if it
existed, would be made up of decent people...

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote:
How could they do that to each other since they almost all seem to wear
visible thongs? Aren't they already self-wedgied with those? Some of
the ones wearing thongs are almost as disgusting as plumber
ass-cleavage in obese men.

Lemme see, thongs, ass-cleavage in obese men. Nope, not even close.
%-)

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:19:47 GMT, Ba r r y wrote:

On 1 Jul 2005 07:47:23 -0700, "Phillip Hallam-Baker"
wrote:


Who conceives of these things?!

Its a group known as the New World Order.

A.K.A. "The Cabal"...


There Is No Cabal.



What about Comcast?

If you can't get the cabal, go with DishTV of DirecTV

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:01:42 GMT, Dave in Fairfax wrote:

"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote:
How could they do that to each other since they almost all seem to wear
visible thongs? Aren't they already self-wedgied with those? Some of
the ones wearing thongs are almost as disgusting as plumber
ass-cleavage in obese men.

Lemme see, thongs, ass-cleavage in obese men. Nope, not even close.
%-)


Think Roseanne Barr or Rosie O'Donnell. Still want to stick to that
comment? ;-(



Dave in Fairfax



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On 1 Jul 2005 21:35:42 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:19:47 GMT, Ba r r y wrote:
On 1 Jul 2005 07:47:23 -0700, "Phillip Hallam-Baker"
wrote:

Who conceives of these things?!

Its a group known as the New World Order.

A.K.A. "The Cabal"...

There Is No Cabal.

At least not during the summer, we voted to take a break.





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

G.E.R.R.Y. wrote:

SNIP

almost as disgusting as plumber
ass-cleavage in obese men.


Let's not get personal, now.

;-)
Glen

Mark & Juanita wrote:
Think Roseanne Barr or Rosie O'Donnell. Still want to stick to that
comment? ;-(

OK, I may have been blocking unconciously. Woof. But on a pecentage
basis, I'll stand just behind my statement. %-)

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

G.E.R.R.Y. wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

If girls gave each other wedgies that style would be long gone by now.

How could they do that to each other since they almost all seem to wear
visible thongs?

Uh, umm, errr, really now.

--

FF

On 1 Jul 2005 06:38:13 -0700, "Jack" wrote:

A few years back, my wife and I completely remodeled our kitchen. All
of the materials came from Home Depot. Our cabinets are all fine
quality plywood with solid wood frame and panel doors. They were built
in NC. I installed them myself and I am very happy with them.

I noticed during another remodeling job that Home Depot had particle
board bathroom vanities for sale. Right next to them were the good
quality plywood vanities that I bought.

I like the fact that HD stocks a range of different products and I can
choose fine quality at a reasonable price or el cheapo junk at a much
lower price. There have been times in my life when I would have been
happy to find cheap junk, because that is all I could afford.

I also like the fact that they stock power tools that range from
Chinese junk to Taiwanese made moderately priced imports, through fine
quality American and European made tools.

Yesterday, the wife and I took a road trip, and stopped in at a HD for
the first time in several years. I'd have to agree with everything
you said above- We were looking at flooring, and while they carried
vinyl stick-on tiles for $.29/sq ft., they also had nice quarried
marble in the next aisle. Who cares if they've got some junk- at
least they carry some higher class materials as well. Around here,
all we've got is Menard's, and all they've got is junk piled next to
the junk- you don't get the option of buying a higher quality product
unless you have a contractor's account with a smaller commerical
vendor, or drive two hours to another chain.

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:01:42 GMT, Dave in Fairfax
wrote:

"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote:
How could they do that to each other since they almost all seem to wear
visible thongs? Aren't they already self-wedgied with those? Some of
the ones wearing thongs are almost as disgusting as plumber
ass-cleavage in obese men.

Lemme see, thongs, ass-cleavage in obese men. Nope, not even close.
%-)

Hmmm.... Come to Wisconsin, and attend a county fair. Bet you'll
change that tune pretty quick!