I'm trying to match the darkest of the Stickley finishes, the antiqued
look, and I'm trying to do it without getting and mixing a bunch of
stuff. I figured there's got a be a basic stain out there like "dark
stickley" or something pathetically simple like that. I wish I had the
time and money to do this right, but the pieces aren't expensive, and I
just need to get the color close. I've tried different stains, but
none are dark enough. Thank you for any help. Peter

Fume with ammonia.

I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.

"toller" wrote in message
I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.

If there was a cabal, it would now be haunting your every move ... if there
was a cabal.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

"toller" wrote in message
...
I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.


What kind of dye, toller? DO they make a wood dye, per se, or are you
talking about something else?

Thx

On 24 May 2005 13:30:23 -0700, "peter"
wrote:

I wish I had the
time and money to do this right,

So do it right - it's a cheap technique and G Stickley wrote it up
personally. If you can't find reasonable descriptions of it on-line with
30 seconds Google, then you're not trying.

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
om...

"toller" wrote in message
...
I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.


What kind of dye, toller? DO they make a wood dye, per se, or are you
talking about something else?

Vague superficial answers aren't good enough?

I used a mix of 3 parts Transfast Extra Dark Walnut and 1 part Antique
Cherry Red; water soluble dye.
Bought it at WoodCrafter Supply.
I then put Minwax gel Mahogany over it.

I am sure you can get the right color with different dyes and stains. The
important point is that I found using both a dye and a stain gave exactly
the same appearance as the Stickley finish; which I presume is a tinted
lacquer.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"toller" wrote in message
I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.

If there was a cabal, it would now be haunting your every move ... if
there
was a cabal.

The cabal, collectively.

In article , "toller" wrote:
I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.

What's the purpose of using cherry, only to cover it up with "brown dye and
mahogany stain"? The same effect could have been achieved with dye and
stain over poplar or soft maple, at one-third the cost - and you wouldn't be
able to tell the difference.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

peter wrote:
I'm trying to match the darkest of the Stickley finishes, the antiqued
look, and I'm trying to do it without getting and mixing a bunch of
stuff. I figured there's got a be a basic stain out there like "dark
stickley" or something pathetically simple like that. I wish I had the
time and money to do this right, but the pieces aren't expensive, and I
just need to get the color close. I've tried different stains, but
none are dark enough. Thank you for any help. Peter



Try adding a glaze between the stain and clear coats. A glaze will
darken overall, but also build up in the nooks and crannies, adding to
the "antique" look. Darkened clear coats can also be used with or
without the glaze, to sneak up on the final look.

Use dewaxed shellac, like Zinnser Seal Coat, or some other universal
sanding sealer between the stains, glazes, and clear coats. The sealer
will prevent each step from messing with the last, and even provide a
measure of "undo", in case you make a mistake.

Practice and note each step on some stock leftover from the project, or
a hidden area on the piece, before trying them for the first time.

Barry

http://musial.ws/fuming.htm

"peter" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm trying to match the darkest of the Stickley finishes, the antiqued
look, and I'm trying to do it without getting and mixing a bunch of
stuff. I figured there's got a be a basic stain out there like "dark
stickley" or something pathetically simple like that. I wish I had the
time and money to do this right, but the pieces aren't expensive, and I
just need to get the color close. I've tried different stains, but
none are dark enough. Thank you for any help. Peter



Ammonia fuming is the traditional method. Don't want to try that? Then
might I suggest you go to your local library and look at the article
starting on page 48 of BHG Wood issue #158, that's the October 04 issue. It
details how Alan Noel of Atlanta acheives the look of ammonia fumiong using
a staining technique employing Minwax Red Oak stain and unfibered roofing
ashphalt a 4:1 ration in mixing I believe.

D. Mo

toller wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"toller" wrote in message

I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.

If there was a cabal, it would now be haunting your every move ... if
there
was a cabal.


The cabal, collectively.

We are not pleased.

The first 3 rows of a rap concert?

Congress?

Home Shopping Network viewers?

toller wrote:
"Vic Baron" wrote in message
om...

"toller" wrote in message
...
I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.


What kind of dye, toller? DO they make a wood dye, per se, or are you
talking about something else?

Vague superficial answers aren't good enough?

I used a mix of 3 parts Transfast Extra Dark Walnut and 1 part Antique
Cherry Red; water soluble dye.
Bought it at WoodCrafter Supply.
I then put Minwax gel Mahogany over it.

Ah yes, exactly what I thought you meant...

--

FF

"toller" wrote in message
...

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
om...

"toller" wrote in message
...
I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.


What kind of dye, toller? DO they make a wood dye, per se, or are you
talking about something else?

Vague superficial answers aren't good enough?

I used a mix of 3 parts Transfast Extra Dark Walnut and 1 part Antique
Cherry Red; water soluble dye.
Bought it at WoodCrafter Supply.
I then put Minwax gel Mahogany over it.

I am sure you can get the right color with different dyes and stains. The
important point is that I found using both a dye and a stain gave exactly
the same appearance as the Stickley finish; which I presume is a tinted
lacquer.




OF COURSE!!! Why didn't I see that right away - my bad.

Thanx

On 25 May 2005 08:31:00 -0700, wrote:

The first 3 rows of a rap concert?


Actually, according to F Paul Wilson (science fiction writer, "An Enemy
of the State"), since a rap concert could reasonably be called a mob, to
find the IQ of a mob, you take the average IQ of the people in the mob and
divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ. i.e.
100 people, avg IQ of 80 = mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:25:47 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ.

square root of the number of people, surely ?

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message

Actually, according to F Paul Wilson (science fiction writer, "An Enemy
of the State"), since a rap concert could reasonably be called a mob, to
find the IQ of a mob, you take the average IQ of the people in the mob and
divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ. i.e.
100 people, avg IQ of 80 = mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)

IOW, government office workers (when not on break).during the day, and rap
aficionado's at night?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

Swingman wrote:
"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message


Actually, according to F Paul Wilson (science fiction writer, "An Enemy
of the State"), since a rap concert could reasonably be called a mob, to
find the IQ of a mob, you take the average IQ of the people in the mob and
divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ. i.e.
100 people, avg IQ of 80 = mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)


IOW, government office workers (when not on break).during the day, and rap
aficionado's at night?

While I question Mark & Juanita's math in determining collective
intelligence of the mob, I guess they can't be too far off since those
who enjoy that sort of music are obviously fairly dense. I mean, how
smart can they be when they keep forgetting to include the "silent C" in
cRap Music?

Swingman wrote:
IOW, government office workers (when not on break).during the day, and rap
aficionado's at night?
Sorry, wrong end of the stick. Not the office workers, the
elected officials. Remember, you get the government you deserve.
Most of the office workers are as upset about their managers as
you are. They just can't say so by law or strike, by law. Their
options a 1. Sit down 2. Shut up. Only Congress can pass
laws, hand out raises and make themselves exempt from the
consequences of their actions.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message
Swingman wrote:
IOW, government office workers (when not on break).during the day, and
rap
aficionado's at night?
Sorry, wrong end of the stick. Not the office workers, the
elected officials. Remember, you get the government you deserve.
Most of the office workers are as upset about their managers as
you are. They just can't say so by law or strike, by law. Their
options a 1. Sit down 2. Shut up. Only Congress can pass
laws, hand out raises and make themselves exempt from the
consequences of their actions.

Damn ... you mean those are ALL member of "Congress" behind the counters and
desks when you stand in line at the post office, or visit the DMV, the court
house, municipal building departments, tax appraisal districts, school
houses, or any of the myriad of other government offices??

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

Swingman wrote:
Damn ... you mean those are ALL member of "Congress" behind the counters and
desks when you stand in line at the post office, or visit the DMV, the court
house, municipal building departments, tax appraisal districts, school
houses, or any of the myriad of other government offices??

No, I mean that the majority of the govenment workers are never
seen by the public. The ones that are seen are as numbed by the
constant abuse by members of the public as might be expected. For
some reason people who are tlaking to other people across a
counter day in and day out, aren't seen to be human beings by the
people they are trying to help. They are seen as figureheads for
an uncaring uber-company. It isn't surprising that they get
burned out. The members of congress ensure that by degrading
their retirements, benefits and wages on a regular basis. They
are then used as scapegoats for the problems caused by those same
members of Congress. But hey, that's just my opinion, and I don't
work for the Government other than paying the taxes. You don't
have to agree.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

In article , reply-to, is, disabled, to, stop, spam wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Damn ... you mean those are ALL member of "Congress" behind the counters and
desks when you stand in line at the post office, or visit the DMV, the court
house, municipal building departments, tax appraisal districts, school
houses, or any of the myriad of other government offices??

No, I mean that the majority of the govenment workers are never
seen by the public. The ones that are seen are as numbed by the
constant abuse by members of the public as might be expected.

I entirely agree. I was a civilian employee of the Navy for thirteen years,
and while I found that the proportion of lazy or incompetent employees seemed
to be higher there than in private industry, so did the proportion of really
top notch workers. Most government workers, in my experience, want to do a
good job, but we are often hamstrung by absolutely ridiculous regulations.

A couple of examples from my experience managing a major Navy computer
system:

- The system doesn't run nearly as fast as it could, and is in constant danger
of crashing, because of the ten-year-old disc drives it uses. Due to their age
and their outdated design, the monthly maintenance fees on these drives are
sky-high. Replacing them with new drives would pay for itself in less than a
year through the reduction in monthly maintenance fees ($440 per drive versus
$38) and energy costs (over 200kwh per drive per *day* - really - vs. 180kwh
per drive per *month*), but I can't buy replacements because the capital
equipment budget has almost no funding -- but the maintenance budget is a
pocket with no bottom. And it's a violation of Federal law to buy capital
equipment with maintenance money.

- Then the Navy comes along with an energy-saving program. We can get capital
equipment funding to replace old, inefficient equipment with newer machines
that use less energy. Oh, boy! Here's my opportunity to replace those old disc
drives, right? Wrong! My system isn't eligible, because I'm not spending
_enough_ money: you have to lay out at least $100K to qualify. Okayyyyyyy...I
have a few more drives, not quite as old, and not quite as expensive to
operate, that I'd like to replace, too. That pushes it up over $100K... but it
also pushes my payback period out from 10 months to 15. Sorry, still not
eligible: you have to have payback in less than a year to qualify.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message
...

For
some reason people who are tlaking to other people across a
counter day in and day out, aren't seen to be human beings by the
people they are trying to help. They are seen as figureheads for
an uncaring uber-company.

One reason I feel that way is that I have to take off work this afternoon to
make a second trip to the SSA to attempt to have an error corrected again..
It may not be the person I talk to, but somewhere in the bowels of the
movement there are a couple of incompetent people that cannot make a simple
correction.

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message
Swingman wrote:
Damn ... you mean those are ALL member of "Congress" behind the counters
and
desks when you stand in line at the post office, or visit the DMV, the
court
house, municipal building departments, tax appraisal districts, school
houses, or any of the myriad of other government offices??

No, I mean that the majority of the govenment workers are never
seen by the public.

Probably a damn good thing ... if they were all like the one's who are put
out front to watt on the public in this neck of the woods, we would be in
even bigger trouble. But I'll have to take your word for it .... those who
pay the freight aren't allowed behind the counter.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
One reason I feel that way is that I have to take off work this afternoon to
make a second trip to the SSA to attempt to have an error corrected again..
It may not be the person I talk to, but somewhere in the bowels of the
movement there are a couple of incompetent people that cannot make a simple
correction.

Unfortunate, but hardly limited to the gov. I've been trying to
get some parts for a Delta BS for almost a month now. Repeated
contacts, all nice people, but my Bs is still down.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

Swingman wrote:
Probably a damn good thing ... if they were all like the one's who are put
out front to watt on the public in this neck of the woods, we would be in
even bigger trouble. But I'll have to take your word for it .... those who
pay the freight aren't allowed behind the counter.

The USPS is an "atypical" part of the gov. It operates outside
differently than line agencies. Unfortunately it has time and
performance constraints that place enormous demands on its
personnel. Most manage to be civil and indeed friendly under
those demands, but after a time it can get to them. The Patent
Office is another area where people have to accomplish an obscene
amount of woork within a very limited time period and it results
in a lot of stress for them as well. Peoplle have problems
dealing with stress, and when it becomes a long-term or constant
part of the job, they lose the will/desire to do their all.
Unofrtuantely it stresses those who truly want to do the best the
most.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message

personnel. Most manage to be civil and indeed friendly under
those demands, but after a time it can get to them.

Must be nice living in Fairfax ... and at one time it was like that here,
but this urban cesspool ceased being Pleasantville quite a few years back.
Unfortunately, there is a _notable_ passive/aggressive behavior amongst many
of the "public servants" in this area ... and in more than one
language/dialect.

This morning (at the building code department) was a perfect example ...
don't even want to go there.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

Swingman wrote:
Must be nice living in Fairfax ... and at one time it was like that here,
but this urban cesspool ceased being Pleasantville quite a few years back.
Unfortunately, there is a _notable_ passive/aggressive behavior amongst many
of the "public servants" in this area ... and in more than one
language/dialect.
This morning (at the building code department) was a perfect example ...
don't even want to go there.

It wasn't wonderful 20 years ago, and things have gone downhill
since then. We're researching WA as a place to retreat to. The
problems of "cultural diversity" are pretty annoying at this
point. The driving habits come to mind as do the misuses of the
system. I'll be glad to get out of Dodge. OTOH, I think that
everybody should have to live in the DC area for a few years so
that they could learn how th e gov really works.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

On Thu, 26 May 2005 10:51:55 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:25:47 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ.

square root of the number of people, surely ?

That was always the formula I heard for the IQ of a meeting...

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
One reason I feel that way is that I have to take off work this afternoon
to
make a second trip to the SSA to attempt to have an error corrected
again..
It may not be the person I talk to, but somewhere in the bowels of the
movement there are a couple of incompetent people that cannot make a
simple
correction.

Unfortunate, but hardly limited to the gov. I've been trying to
get some parts for a Delta BS for almost a month now. Repeated
contacts, all nice people, but my Bs is still down.

Dave in Fairfax

Turned out to be a good experience. The person I saw today took care of the
problem instantly that was not done by others for a couple of years of
shuffling documents. At least I have a receipt that says it was fixed.

Right about not just the government. Seems like the bigger and more
sophisticated the company, the more difficult getting a resolution to simple
problems. Dell and Gateway used to have good customer support, but now I
never hear good about it. Same with insurance companies, health care
providers (billing mostly).

Now Woodworker's Journal gave me a prompt reply. Seems like they have some
good people.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

On Thu, 26 May 2005 10:51:55 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:25:47 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ.

square root of the number of people, surely ?

Nope. I think the point being made was that a mob essentially had less
intelligence than an encephalated turnip (to borrow a term from an infamous
e-bay listing).




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
..
100 people, avg IQ of 80 = mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)

I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
melody. Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
put more succinctly: Rap is crap!

On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:35:51 GMT, "Beej-in-GA"
wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
.. .
.
100 people, avg IQ of 80 = mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)

I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
melody.

the best definition of music I've seen is "an arrangement on notes in
time"





Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
put more succinctly: Rap is crap!


your (racial/ cultural/ class) bias is showing...

In article ,
wrote:

the best definition of music I've seen is "an arrangement on notes in
time"


Remember, information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom
is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not
music; music is the best.
-- Frank Zappa

or...

Americans want grungy people, stabbing themselves in the head on stage.
They get a bright bunch like us, with deodorant on, they don't get it.
--Liam Gallagher

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: http://www.balderstone.ca
The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com

D. Mo wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm trying to match the darkest of the Stickley finishes, the antiqued
look, and I'm trying to do it without getting and mixing a bunch of
stuff. I figured there's got a be a basic stain out there like "dark
stickley" or something pathetically simple like that. I wish I had the
time and money to do this right, but the pieces aren't expensive, and I
just need to get the color close. I've tried different stains, but
none are dark enough. Thank you for any help. Peter



Ammonia fuming is the traditional method. Don't want to try that? Then
might I suggest you go to your local library and look at the article
starting on page 48 of BHG Wood issue #158, that's the October 04 issue. It
details how Alan Noel of Atlanta acheives the look of ammonia fumiong using
a staining technique employing Minwax Red Oak stain and unfibered roofing
ashphalt a 4:1 ration in mixing I believe.

D. Mo

Thats what I was going to suggest. Roofing tar and paint thinner in
various ratios gives a whole range of colors for dirt cheap. Sam

On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:35:51 GMT, "Beej-in-GA"
wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
.. .
.
100 people, avg IQ of 80 = mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)

I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
melody. Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
put more succinctly: Rap is crap!


My apologies and deep regrets. Please strike my original statement and
modify to read:
"smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap."

That better? again, :-)







+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Fri, 27 May 2005 15:54:33 -0700, s wrote:

On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:35:51 GMT, "Beej-in-GA"
wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
. ..
.
100 people, avg IQ of 80 = mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)

I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
melody.

the best definition of music I've seen is "an arrangement on notes in
time"





Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
put more succinctly: Rap is crap!


your (racial/ cultural/ class) bias is showing...


Just because everyone exclaims how wonderful and resplendant the king's
clothes are, doesn't hide the fact that he is naked. Neither then by
attempting to wrap some kind of aura of "culture" or "ethnicity" or "social
standing" around a form of behavior that is then promoted as entertainment,
despite the fact that numerous people clamor and buy it, does that make it
so. What's doubly frustrating is the fact that those who point out the
nudity are then accused of some sort of failing on their part.






+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:35:51 GMT, "Beej-in-GA"
wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
. ..
.
100 people, avg IQ of 80 = mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)

I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
melody. Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
put more succinctly: Rap is crap!


My apologies and deep regrets. Please strike my original statement and
modify to read:
"smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap."

That better? again, :-)

Yep, and still funny!!! Well done. Thanks. (ROFLMAO)