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Default Collett slipping

Anyone run into this???

When I put a large bit in my drill press, even going very slow the bit
stops in the wood and the collet lets go from the press when I raise it
up. So...the bit (a 3 1/2 Starrett bi-metal hole saw bit) stays in the
wood. I tried another bit (A large Dewalt forstner) and same thing.
The chuck won't stay in the collet.

I turn off the press, lower the press onto the tapered piece and the bit
will lift out of the wood. I tried removing the bit and then pressing
the chuck very hard onto a piece of wood to try and set it, but it does
the same thing again.

Keith P
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Default Collett slipping

You know I have had problems in my router with bit slippage and ended up
actually lubricating the collet with a wd40 or.....
Also I take a piece of very fine sandpaper and polish the drill bit shaft or
router bit shaft and slightly roughen it.
It seems I get a better tightening and grip.
john

"Keith" wrote in message ...

Anyone run into this???

When I put a large bit in my drill press, even going very slow the bit
stops in the wood and the collet lets go from the press when I raise it
up. So...the bit (a 3 1/2 Starrett bi-metal hole saw bit) stays in the
wood. I tried another bit (A large Dewalt forstner) and same thing.
The chuck won't stay in the collet.

I turn off the press, lower the press onto the tapered piece and the bit
will lift out of the wood. I tried removing the bit and then pressing
the chuck very hard onto a piece of wood to try and set it, but it does
the same thing again.

Keith P

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Default Collett slipping

On 8/31/2011 8:35 AM, Keith wrote:
Anyone run into this???

When I put a large bit in my drill press, even going very slow the bit
stops in the wood and the collet lets go from the press when I raise it
up. So...the bit (a 3 1/2 Starrett bi-metal hole saw bit) stays in the
wood. I tried another bit (A large Dewalt forstner) and same thing. The
chuck won't stay in the collet.

I turn off the press, lower the press onto the tapered piece and the bit
will lift out of the wood. I tried removing the bit and then pressing
the chuck very hard onto a piece of wood to try and set it, but it does
the same thing again.


??

Really difficult to understand your problem, primarily because your use
of terminology is ambivalent.

Is your drill press equipped with a chuck, or with a collet?

They are not the same thing.

If your drill press is equipped with the usual tapered chuck, which
generally has three jaws, each with a specific hole in the side to
insert the chuck key, make sure you tighten each jaw with the chuck key,
not just one. And go around more than once with problematic bits.

Drill presses commonly come with cheap chucks these days. You may want
to invest in a good one.


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KarlC@ (the obvious)
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Default Collett slipping

Well, I guess in trying to "simplify" my explanation I made a mess of it -

So - What I have is a Delta press and the piece I'm talking about is
like a collet with a morse taper liek that used on the tail stock of a
lathe. Is that clearer???

I.E. The morse taper part of it is releasing from the press itself.

Make sense now???

KEith
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Default Collett slipping


Keith, I will try not to make the same mistake the other three have made.
(HEY guys he is talking about the Morse Taper coming loose.)

The problem is, you have a glaze either on the morse taper on the chuck or
up in the spindle. Being basically lazy, I would wash both the Morse Taper
on the chuck and up in the spindle with Acetone or Mineral Spirits and
reinsert the chuck and see what happens.

If that does not work, I would take a piece of 400 silicon paper and burnish
the Morse taper on the chuck. Then reinsert has you have been doing and see
if it sticks. If it does not, the probloem is in the spindle and you will
have to get somewhat creative on how you break the glaze in it. ONE WORD OF
CAUTION: Do not get carried away with the silicon paper, or you will mess
up the Morse Taper.

Deb


Keith wrote:

Anyone run into this???

When I put a large bit in my drill press, even going very slow the bit
stops in the wood and the collet lets go from the press when I raise it
up. So...the bit (a 3 1/2 Starrett bi-metal hole saw bit) stays in the
wood. I tried another bit (A large Dewalt forstner) and same thing.
The chuck won't stay in the collet.

I turn off the press, lower the press onto the tapered piece and the bit
will lift out of the wood. I tried removing the bit and then pressing
the chuck very hard onto a piece of wood to try and set it, but it does
the same thing again.

Keith P




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Default Collett slipping

On 8/31/2011 9:35 AM, Dr. Deb wrote:

Keith, I will try not to make the same mistake the other three have made.
(HEY guys he is talking about the Morse Taper coming loose.)


That's easy to say _after_ he clarified his terminology.


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KarlC@ (the obvious)
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Default Collett slipping

On 8/31/2011 9:16 AM, Keith wrote:
Well, I guess in trying to "simplify" my explanation I made a mess of it -

So - What I have is a Delta press and the piece I'm talking about is
like a collet with a morse taper liek that used on the tail stock of a
lathe. Is that clearer???

I.E. The morse taper part of it is releasing from the press itself.

Make sense now???


??? Yes, finally!

Sorry, Dude ... when trying to help someone using ASCII, terminology is
MOST important. I don't mind trying to help, but I don't want to be
wasting my time trouble shooting the brakes when the problem is with the
accelerator pedal.

With chucks on drill presses, cleanliness is next to godliness. Tapered
shanks and the sockets they go in must both be CLEAN.

There are tools available for cleaning if normal methods don't work.
DAGS, as it would be cheaper to try all cleaning avenues before
purchasing a new chuck trying to solve the problem.

99% of the time cleaning with a good solvent is all that is necessary.

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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
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Default Collett slipping

Morse tapers work by suction. Any attempt to polish it wit a grit may
completely destroy that suction! I would think any "glaze" would actually
help the suction.
I would try the solvents first for sure.
Then try to re-oil the tapers for better suction.

Hoping you don't have two different tapers.


----------

"Dr. Deb" wrote in message
...
Keith, I will try not to make the same mistake the other three have made.
(HEY guys he is talking about the Morse Taper coming loose.)

The problem is, you have a glaze either on the morse taper on the chuck or
up in the spindle. Being basically lazy, I would wash both the Morse Taper
on the chuck and up in the spindle with Acetone or Mineral Spirits and
reinsert the chuck and see what happens.

If that does not work, I would take a piece of 400 silicon paper and burnish
the Morse taper on the chuck. Then reinsert has you have been doing and see
if it sticks. If it does not, the probloem is in the spindle and you will
have to get somewhat creative on how you break the glaze in it. ONE WORD OF
CAUTION: Do not get carried away with the silicon paper, or you will mess
up the Morse Taper.

Deb

------------
Keith wrote:

Anyone run into this???

When I put a large bit in my drill press, even going very slow the bit
stops in the wood and the collet lets go from the press when I raise it
up. So...the bit (a 3 1/2 Starrett bi-metal hole saw bit) stays in the
wood. I tried another bit (A large Dewalt forstner) and same thing.
The chuck won't stay in the collet.

I turn off the press, lower the press onto the tapered piece and the bit
will lift out of the wood. I tried removing the bit and then pressing
the chuck very hard onto a piece of wood to try and set it, but it does
the same thing again.

Keith P


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Default Collett slipping

On 8/31/2011 11:37 AM, Josepi wrote:
Morse tapers work by suction. Any attempt to polish it wit a grit may
completely destroy that suction! I would think any "glaze" would
actually help the suction.
I would try the solvents first for sure.
Then try to re-oil the tapers for better suction.

Hoping you don't have two different tapers.


F O S as usual!
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Default Collett slipping

Thanks all...

Will go the cleaning route first as that certainly seems to be the
easiest to do. On the suction comment - interesting, never thought of
it that way. I had the opposite experience on the lathe tail stock.
Bought a chuck with morse taper...used it and was quite happy with the
results. THEN - when I tried to remove it it was stuck solid (or
suctioned on solid).

I don't have a fancy lathe so there was no way to insert a rod to knock
it out, like on the General and others. I eventually got it out by
using an open end wrench with some tape on it, fitted the wrench behind
it - between the chuck and the tail stock and gave it a couple of hard
smacks. It drove it clear across the room! Must be some excellent
steel in it because there wasn't a mark on it.

As for misunderstanding... "Everyone has to see something for the first
time!"

Will report back on how it goes.

You are clever people

Keith



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Default Collett slipping

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:05:40 -0230, Keith
wrote:

As others have said, probably dirty or rusty internal taper on the
Drill Press..

I use one of these, works well..
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/st...r _mate?Args=

Anyone run into this???

When I put a large bit in my drill press, even going very slow the bit
stops in the wood and the collet lets go from the press when I raise it
up. So...the bit (a 3 1/2 Starrett bi-metal hole saw bit) stays in the
wood. I tried another bit (A large Dewalt forstner) and same thing.
The chuck won't stay in the collet.

I turn off the press, lower the press onto the tapered piece and the bit
will lift out of the wood. I tried removing the bit and then pressing
the chuck very hard onto a piece of wood to try and set it, but it does
the same thing again.

Keith P

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Default Collett slipping

They think of everything!

I cleaned the taper and the hole and it ran better. Also slowed down
the feed to the wood. Must also remember to clean the lathe when I
remove the chuck.

Keith P
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Default Collett slipping

They think of everything!

I cleaned the taper and the hole and it ran better. Also slowed down
the feed to the wood. Must also remember to clean the lathe when I
remove the chuck.

Keith P
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Default Collett slipping

On 8/31/2011 12:41 PM, Keith wrote:
Thanks all...

Will go the cleaning route first as that certainly seems to be the
easiest to do. On the suction comment - interesting, never thought of it
that way. I had the opposite experience on the lathe tail stock. Bought
a chuck with morse taper...used it and was quite happy with the results.
THEN - when I tried to remove it it was stuck solid (or suctioned on
solid).

I don't have a fancy lathe so there was no way to insert a rod to knock
it out, like on the General and others. I eventually got it out by using
an open end wrench with some tape on it, fitted the wrench behind it -
between the chuck and the tail stock and gave it a couple of hard
smacks. It drove it clear across the room! Must be some excellent steel
in it because there wasn't a mark on it.

As for misunderstanding... "Everyone has to see something for the first
time!"

Will report back on how it goes.

You are clever people

Keith


There is absolutely no suction involved in the mechanics of the Morse
taper, it is all friction.

Tools with a tapered shank are inserted into a matching tapered socket
and pushed or twisted into place. They are then retained by friction. In
some cases, the friction fit needs to be made stronger, as with the use
of a drawbar, essentially a long bolt that holds the tool into the
socket with more force than is possible by other means.

Tapered shanks "stick" in a socket best when both the shank and the
socket are clean. Shanks can be wiped clean, but sockets, being deep and
inaccessible, are best cleaned with a specialized taper cleaning tool
which is inserted, twisted, and removed.

Tapered shank tools are removed from a socket using different
approaches, depending on the design of the socket. In drill presses and
similar tools, the tool is removed by inserting a wedge shaped block of
metal called a "drift" into a rectangular shaped cross hole through the
socket and tapping it. As the cross section of the drift gets larger
when the drift is driven further in, the result is that the drift,
bearing against the foremost edge of the tang, pushes the tool out. In
many lathe tailstocks, the tool is removed by fully withdrawing the
quill into the tailstock, which brings the tool up against the end of
the leadscrew or an internal stud, separating the taper and releasing
the tool. Where the tool is retained by a drawbar, as in some mill
spindles, the drawbar is partially unthreaded with a wrench and then
tapped with a hammer, which separates the taper, at which point the tool
can be further unthreaded and removed. For simple sockets with open
access to the back end, a drift punch is inserted axially from behind
and the tool tapped out.
[edit]
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Default Collett slipping

On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 07:30:01 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

YEA LEON
At last someone who paid attention in shop or better workrd for a
living in a real shop.
Your explination was exactly CORRECT


On 8/31/2011 12:41 PM, Keith wrote:
Thanks all...

Will go the cleaning route first as that certainly seems to be the
easiest to do. On the suction comment - interesting, never thought of it
that way. I had the opposite experience on the lathe tail stock. Bought
a chuck with morse taper...used it and was quite happy with the results.
THEN - when I tried to remove it it was stuck solid (or suctioned on
solid).

I don't have a fancy lathe so there was no way to insert a rod to knock
it out, like on the General and others. I eventually got it out by using
an open end wrench with some tape on it, fitted the wrench behind it -
between the chuck and the tail stock and gave it a couple of hard
smacks. It drove it clear across the room! Must be some excellent steel
in it because there wasn't a mark on it.

As for misunderstanding... "Everyone has to see something for the first
time!"

Will report back on how it goes.

You are clever people

Keith


There is absolutely no suction involved in the mechanics of the Morse
taper, it is all friction.

Tools with a tapered shank are inserted into a matching tapered socket
and pushed or twisted into place. They are then retained by friction. In
some cases, the friction fit needs to be made stronger, as with the use
of a drawbar, essentially a long bolt that holds the tool into the
socket with more force than is possible by other means.

Tapered shanks "stick" in a socket best when both the shank and the
socket are clean. Shanks can be wiped clean, but sockets, being deep and
inaccessible, are best cleaned with a specialized taper cleaning tool
which is inserted, twisted, and removed.

Tapered shank tools are removed from a socket using different
approaches, depending on the design of the socket. In drill presses and
similar tools, the tool is removed by inserting a wedge shaped block of
metal called a "drift" into a rectangular shaped cross hole through the
socket and tapping it. As the cross section of the drift gets larger
when the drift is driven further in, the result is that the drift,
bearing against the foremost edge of the tang, pushes the tool out. In
many lathe tailstocks, the tool is removed by fully withdrawing the
quill into the tailstock, which brings the tool up against the end of
the leadscrew or an internal stud, separating the taper and releasing
the tool. Where the tool is retained by a drawbar, as in some mill
spindles, the drawbar is partially unthreaded with a wrench and then
tapped with a hammer, which separates the taper, at which point the tool
can be further unthreaded and removed. For simple sockets with open
access to the back end, a drift punch is inserted axially from behind
and the tool tapped out.
[edit]

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