I have heard some say that barrel trimmers/pen mills get dull rather
quickly. I have been using a disc sander to square up the end, but by
looking at the pictures in the catalogs (craft supplies, psi) it seems like
a pen mill or barrel trimmer would do a nice/better job.

My dilemma is this:

1. I hear they need sharpening often
2. They are rather expensive - I want more than just 7mm. I would like 'O',
maybe others.


If #1 is true, then #2 is even worse because I'd be buying an expensive tool
that needs sharpening too often - i might as well stick with the sander.

Can someone with experience with these and/or disc sanders give me their
opinion?

And with regard to disc sanders, what technique do you use? I use a block
of wood with a hole in it. I place a drill bit in the hole(snug) and the pan
blank with tube over the exposed drill bit, then hit the sander with it. I
*have* taken off some of the tube by accident, but not much and it doesn't
seem to affect the pen's operation at all.

I' don't make a lot of pens, perhaps a few hundred but I've never sharpened
the barrell mill I bought with my first lathe-it cuts fine. don't let it
spin and burn the wood - maybe that's how the others go bad?

"Matt" wrote in message
...
I have heard some say that barrel trimmers/pen mills get dull rather
quickly. I have been using a disc sander to square up the end, but by
looking at the pictures in the catalogs (craft supplies, psi) it seems
like
a pen mill or barrel trimmer would do a nice/better job.

My dilemma is this:

1. I hear they need sharpening often
2. They are rather expensive - I want more than just 7mm. I would like
'O',
maybe others.


If #1 is true, then #2 is even worse because I'd be buying an expensive
tool
that needs sharpening too often - i might as well stick with the sander.

Can someone with experience with these and/or disc sanders give me their
opinion?

And with regard to disc sanders, what technique do you use? I use a block
of wood with a hole in it. I place a drill bit in the hole(snug) and the
pan
blank with tube over the exposed drill bit, then hit the sander with it. I
*have* taken off some of the tube by accident, but not much and it doesn't
seem to affect the pen's operation at all.

And with regard to disc sanders, what technique do you use? I use a block
of wood with a hole in it. I place a drill bit in the hole(snug) and the pan
blank with tube over the exposed drill bit, then hit the sander with it. I
*have* taken off some of the tube by accident, but not much and it doesn't
seem to affect the pen's operation at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------

I use a disc sander to square the blanks. A jig ,purchased from PSI,
is clamped to the miter gauge. It is necessary to square the rod to
the sanding jig rod.

I prefer this to the pen mill because it give flat surfaces that can
be turned down without using the center bushing.

A sanding jig can be made using a 1/4" rod and a piece of hardwood.
The only requirement is that it can be squared to the sanding disc.

Larry
Hand Turned Pens at http://webpages.charter.net/lgottlieb2/

Hello Matt,

Pen mills offer an important advantage over using a sanding station to
square the ends of your pen blanks prior to mounting on the mandrel... If
your drilled hole is not straight, centred and true - relative to the
squared pen blank, the pen mill will correct the ends and give you a 90
degree interface for your bushings to mount against.

The pen mill inserts inside the pen tube, following the drilled axis of the
hole, off centre or not, to give you the proper 90 degree ends on your
blanks. For the best fit of your completed pen, you want a true 90 degree
end on your pen blanks, relative to the drilled holes axis.

If you use a sanding station, you may well have a square blank and get a 90
degree end on it with your sanding jig, but if the drilled hole is slightly
off centre, you will not get an exact 90 degree face on the ends of the
blank, relative to the off-centred drilled holes axis. This may cause you
fitting problems when you go to assemble your pen, due to the slight gap
between the metal and wooden components.

Of course, you can use a sanding station, but I do not believe it is the
best approach to take if you want the most accurate and best fitting pens
possible, IMHO. As far as sharpening the pen mill cutters, yes they will go
dull after a time, but they are easily sharpened with a small diamond hone -
a few strokes and you're back in business.

The length of time between sharpening varies, based on the material you are
making your pens out of... Obviously, harder, more abrasive
species/materials will cause more wear than less abrasive types. Having said
that, I typically get about 100 pens out of my mill before I touch up the
cutters. It's easy to tell when you need to sharpen them, the cutter will
begin to chatter on the end grain surface when it needs dressing.

As for a technique to use with the sanding station, I'm not much help
there... I used this approach years ago, but abandoned it in favour of the
pen mill based system. To reduce the cost of the pen mills, look for systems
that offer interchangeable guide shafts. (Craft Supplies USA offers an
excellent system and is the one I use www.woodturnerscatalog.com) These
maintain the same cutter head assembly, but you change the shaft for each
style of pen you need to mill. These interchangeable systems are much
cheaper that purchasing the complete mills in the sizes needed for each
style of pen you desire to turn.

I should also mention that I have been using the same pen mill system for
the last six years or so... The cutter head has been sharpened many times,
but still performs flawlessly. I would think it would be hard to wear one of
these out in a lifetime. It has stood the test of time in my production
studio, which is no easy task for any tool. Take care and all the best to
you and yours!

P.S. Make sure you maintain the factory rake on the cutter head's cutters
when you sharpen them with your diamond hone. Compromising the rake angle
will cause degradation in cutter head performance, excess heat during the
cutting process and premature failure of the sharpened edge. Its simple to
sharpen the cutter head with a small DMT diamond hone. I use the ones that
are mounted on a plastic handle and measure about 1" x 2". Simply line up
the face of the hone on the same angle as each of the the cutter head's
teeth and give them a few light strokes... You're good to go for another 100
pens or so.

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available for
Shipment, ² Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon


On 8/10/04 2:31 AM, in article , "Matt"
wrote:

I have heard some say that barrel trimmers/pen mills get dull rather
quickly. I have been using a disc sander to square up the end, but by
looking at the pictures in the catalogs (craft supplies, psi) it seems like
a pen mill or barrel trimmer would do a nice/better job.

My dilemma is this:

1. I hear they need sharpening often
2. They are rather expensive - I want more than just 7mm. I would like 'O',
maybe others.


If #1 is true, then #2 is even worse because I'd be buying an expensive tool
that needs sharpening too often - i might as well stick with the sander.

Can someone with experience with these and/or disc sanders give me their
opinion?

And with regard to disc sanders, what technique do you use? I use a block
of wood with a hole in it. I place a drill bit in the hole(snug) and the pan
blank with tube over the exposed drill bit, then hit the sander with it. I
*have* taken off some of the tube by accident, but not much and it doesn't
seem to affect the pen's operation at all.

If cost is a problem a pen can be made at home.
I silver soldered a small piece of HSS to a suitable size drill and then
ground the HSS cutter to the right angle and shape and it works well. It did
take some effort to get the correct angle but from then on it has worked
satisfactorily.
My first attempt was a failure because I fitted the blade to the side of the
drill and it did not cut close enough to the hole edge. I then refitted the
blade into the flute and all is well.
--
********************************************
,-._|\ L. Peter Stacey
/ Oz \ Melbourne Australia
\_,--.x/
v

"Matt" wrote in message
...
I have heard some say that barrel trimmers/pen mills get dull rather
quickly. I have been using a disc sander to square up the end, but by
looking at the pictures in the catalogs (craft supplies, psi) it seems
like
a pen mill or barrel trimmer would do a nice/better job.

My dilemma is this:

1. I hear they need sharpening often
2. They are rather expensive - I want more than just 7mm. I would like
'O',
maybe others.
SNIP
Can someone with experience with these and/or disc sanders give me their
opinion?
SNIP


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 06/08/04

"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message ...

Matt: Steven Russell has great qualifications, but unfortunately he
doesn't know how a sanding jig works.

When you place the blank with the tube glued in on a rod that is 90
degrees to the sanding disc, the end is sanded at 90 degrees to the
tube, not to the side of the blank. Any irregularity in the shape of
the blank or the angle of the drilled hole is eliminated.

An advantage that I like is that the entire end is flat and the pen
can be turned with the center joint flush.

Larry G.

"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message ...

Matt: Steven Russell has great qualifications, but unfortunately he
doesn't know how a sanding jig works.

When you place the blank with the tube glued in on a rod that is 90
degrees to the sanding disc, the end is sanded at 90 degrees to the
tube, not to the side of the blank. Any irregularity in the shape of
the blank or the angle of the drilled hole is eliminated.

An advantage that I like is that the entire end is flat and the pen
can be turned with the center joint flush.

Larry G.

"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message ...

Matt: Steven Russell has great qualifications, but unfortunately he
doesn't know how a sanding jig works.

When you place the blank with the tube glued in on a rod that is 90
degrees to the sanding disc, the end is sanded at 90 degrees to the
tube, not to the side of the blank. Any irregularity in the shape of
the blank or the angle of the drilled hole is eliminated.

An advantage that I like is that the entire end is flat and the pen
can be turned with the center joint flush.

Larry G.

Hello Larry,

The original post did not make this point clear on the jig, but I would
still favour a pen mill for dressing the ends of the tube. IMHO, it leaves a
better surface ready for mounting the metal components. YMMV. Take care and
all the best to you and yours!

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available for
Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon




On 8/10/04 7:32 PM, in article
, "Larry Gottlieb"
wrote:

"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message
...

Matt: Steven Russell has great qualifications, but unfortunately he
doesn't know how a sanding jig works.

When you place the blank with the tube glued in on a rod that is 90
degrees to the sanding disc, the end is sanded at 90 degrees to the
tube, not to the side of the blank. Any irregularity in the shape of
the blank or the angle of the drilled hole is eliminated.

An advantage that I like is that the entire end is flat and the pen
can be turned with the center joint flush.

Larry G.

"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message ...
Hello Matt,

Pen mills offer an important advantage over using a sanding station to
square the ends of your pen blanks prior to mounting on the mandrel... If
your drilled hole is not straight, centred and true - relative to the
squared pen blank, the pen mill will correct the ends and give you a 90
degree interface for your bushings to mount against.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Steven,

The idea of the sanding jig is that by using the tube in the drilled
hole over the rod (which is at right angles to the disc) the ends of
the blanks are always square to the hole. The shape of the blank and
an angled hole make no difference.

If you compare the rod to the rod of the pen mill and the sanding disc
to the cutter of the mill you will get the idea.

An additional advantage is that the entire end is flush. This allows
the upper and lower blanks to be turned without a center bushing.

Larry

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:12:29 GMT, "Steven D. Russell"
wrote:

Hello Matt,

Pen mills offer an important advantage over using a sanding station to
square the ends of your pen blanks prior to mounting on the mandrel... If
your drilled hole is not straight, centred and true - relative to the
squared pen blank, the pen mill will correct the ends and give you a 90
degree interface for your bushings to mount against.

The pen mill inserts inside the pen tube, following the drilled axis of the
hole, off centre or not, to give you the proper 90 degree ends on your
blanks. For the best fit of your completed pen, you want a true 90 degree
end on your pen blanks, relative to the drilled holes axis.

If you use a sanding station, you may well have a square blank and get a 90
degree end on it with your sanding jig, but if the drilled hole is slightly
off centre, you will not get an exact 90 degree face on the ends of the
blank, relative to the off-centred drilled holes axis. This may cause you
fitting problems when you go to assemble your pen, due to the slight gap
between the metal and wooden components.

Of course, you can use a sanding station, but I do not believe it is the
best approach to take if you want the most accurate and best fitting pens
possible, IMHO. As far as sharpening the pen mill cutters, yes they will go
dull after a time, but they are easily sharpened with a small diamond hone -
a few strokes and you're back in business.

The length of time between sharpening varies, based on the material you are
making your pens out of... Obviously, harder, more abrasive
species/materials will cause more wear than less abrasive types. Having said
that, I typically get about 100 pens out of my mill before I touch up the
cutters. It's easy to tell when you need to sharpen them, the cutter will
begin to chatter on the end grain surface when it needs dressing.

As for a technique to use with the sanding station, I'm not much help
there... I used this approach years ago, but abandoned it in favour of the
pen mill based system. To reduce the cost of the pen mills, look for systems
that offer interchangeable guide shafts. (Craft Supplies USA offers an
excellent system and is the one I use www.woodturnerscatalog.com) These
maintain the same cutter head assembly, but you change the shaft for each
style of pen you need to mill. These interchangeable systems are much
cheaper that purchasing the complete mills in the sizes needed for each
style of pen you desire to turn.

I should also mention that I have been using the same pen mill system for
the last six years or so... The cutter head has been sharpened many times,
but still performs flawlessly. I would think it would be hard to wear one of
these out in a lifetime. It has stood the test of time in my production
studio, which is no easy task for any tool. Take care and all the best to
you and yours!

P.S. Make sure you maintain the factory rake on the cutter head's cutters
when you sharpen them with your diamond hone. Compromising the rake angle
will cause degradation in cutter head performance, excess heat during the
cutting process and premature failure of the sharpened edge. Its simple to
sharpen the cutter head with a small DMT diamond hone. I use the ones that
are mounted on a plastic handle and measure about 1" x 2". Simply line up
the face of the hone on the same angle as each of the the cutter head's
teeth and give them a few light strokes... You're good to go for another 100
pens or so.

hmmmmm...... i must have missed the boat here! when i bought my pen
mill i assumed it needed a handle and was to be turned by hand. i made
a handle for it and have been using it this way for over a year. it
seems to do a great job but is a slow proccess on very hard woods.
anyone care to enlighten me? lol;

skeez

On 10 Aug 2004 19:57:53 -0700, (Larry
Gottlieb) wrote:


An additional advantage is that the entire end is flush. This allows
the upper and lower blanks to be turned without a center bushing.

Which is fine if you don't want to use a center band. If you use that
band, however, you need the bushing to tell you how thick to cut your
ends, so they are flush with the surface of the band. Also, I don't
know about your pen mandrel, but mine is somewhat smaller than 7mm, so
the pen blanks need the middle bushing, just to keep them from
flopping around, since the brass slides easily over the mandrel rod.

If it weren't smaller than 7mm, then the bushings couldn't slide
inside of the brass, since the brass would be tight to the rod.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

hmmmmm...... i must have missed the boat here! when i bought my pen
mill i assumed it needed a handle and was to be turned by hand. i made
a handle for it and have been using it this way for over a year. it
seems to do a great job but is a slow proccess on very hard woods.
anyone care to enlighten me? lol;


Dude:

I did the same thing when I first started out making pens and one day I had an
epiphany-why not use the drill press?!!

Have been using the drill press ever since. Works great for me.

Using a disc sander has been somewhat successful for me, but I was wondering
if it was worth the money to get a barrel trimmer.


It seems that either of these methods, if done correctly, will yeild
suitable results.

I will stick to my sander for now. Thanks for all the responses.

Matt

I have heard some say that barrel trimmers/pen mills get dull rather
quickly. BRBR

They are easily sharpened with a popsicle stick-style diamond hone. I just give
each cutter a few rubs with the diamond stick and all is well again. Takes only
a few seconds.
-Jim Gott-
San Jose, CA