I'm attempting my first hollow vessel. I've completed the outside to my
satisfaction and am in the process of hollowing it out. I drilled out
the center and used a bowl gouge to get the initial hollowing complete.

I'm now trying to hollow the sides out with a smaller Sorby swan neck
tool, but am getting what seems to be excessive chatter. I'm keeping the
straight part of the tool on the toolrest.

I'm convinced the tool is sharp enough and I'm hollowing from the bottom
of the vessel to the side and from the top to the side (all downhill) so
I don't believe the chatter is from going in the wrong direction. My
impression is that with light passes, the chatter goes away, but it will
take me *forever* to get the bulk of the walls thinned.

What is/are your preferred tool(s) for hollowing vessels and, in
particular, for the "bulk hollowing" after you've set the vessel depth
and done any initial bowl gouge work.

~Mark.

You didn't say how deep you were hollowing. If you have one of the
tools that has a 1/4 inch shaft, then you can go 2 or so inches deep
without chattering. You can go maybe 4 inches at the most, but only in
the most experienced hands. Think of it this way, how far can you
reach out with a gouge of scraper before it gets difficult? With a 3/4
inch shaft, you can go 6 inches or so fairly comfortably, and deeper
with care and a light touch. With a 1 1/2 inch shaft, you can go maybe
18 inches. What you need depends on how deep you want to go. Another
excuse to buy more tools/toys.

Of the hollowing tools out there, I have the Monster articulated
hollowing system (you can web search that one) for smaller pieces (6
to 8 inches max) and a captured system for deeper ones. For cutters, I
prefer the McNaughton hollowing blades. You can be pretty agressive
with it, but it isn't really good for a slick clean finish cut. You
don't have to adjust for different angles on your form, you just
change blades. For the finish cut, I prefer one of the micro grain
carbide discs, available from Hunter tools, The Eliminator, and
Monster has one as well. They work at a shear/skewed angle, and give a
cleaner cut. A laser pointer is a great help as well. The Monster has
a great one, and the articulated system is so easy to use. Saves a lot
of time checking with calipers. When I got my Monster system, I had an
adapter made so I could use all my other cutters in it. With the
longer shafted 3/4 inch bars, it does chatter a bit, but is great with
the 1/2 inch bars.

robo hippy

On Jan 6, 11:02*am, Woody wrote:
I'm attempting my first hollow vessel. I've completed the outside to my
satisfaction and am in the process of hollowing it out. I drilled out
the center and used a bowl gouge to get the initial hollowing complete.

I'm now trying to hollow the sides out with a smaller Sorby swan neck
tool, but am getting what seems to be excessive chatter. I'm keeping the
straight part of the tool on the toolrest.

I'm convinced the tool is sharp enough and I'm hollowing from the bottom
of the vessel to the side and from the top to the side (all downhill) so
I don't believe the chatter is from going in the wrong direction. My
impression is that with light passes, the chatter goes away, but it will
take me *forever* to get the bulk of the walls thinned.

What is/are your preferred tool(s) for hollowing vessels and, in
particular, for the "bulk hollowing" after you've set the vessel depth
and done any initial bowl gouge work.

~Mark.

robo hippy wrote:
You didn't say how deep you were hollowing. If you have one of the
tools that has a 1/4 inch shaft, then you can go 2 or so inches deep
without chattering. You can go maybe 4 inches at the most, but only in
the most experienced hands. Think of it this way, how far can you
reach out with a gouge of scraper before it gets difficult? With a 3/4
inch shaft, you can go 6 inches or so fairly comfortably, and deeper
with care and a light touch. With a 1 1/2 inch shaft, you can go maybe
18 inches. What you need depends on how deep you want to go. Another
excuse to buy more tools/toys.

Geez, and I thought I'd been thorough ;-)

The Sorby I've got probably has a 1/4"-5/16" shaft. The vessel I'm
hollowing is about 4" deep. Pretty narrow throat (maybe an 1") so I can
probably get a 3/4" shaft through but not much more.


Of the hollowing tools out there, I have the Monster articulated
hollowing system (you can web search that one) for smaller pieces (6
to 8 inches max) and a captured system for deeper ones. For cutters, I
prefer the McNaughton hollowing blades. You can be pretty agressive
with it, but it isn't really good for a slick clean finish cut. You
don't have to adjust for different angles on your form, you just
change blades. For the finish cut, I prefer one of the micro grain
carbide discs, available from Hunter tools, The Eliminator, and
Monster has one as well. They work at a shear/skewed angle, and give a
cleaner cut. A laser pointer is a great help as well. The Monster has
a great one, and the articulated system is so easy to use. Saves a lot
of time checking with calipers. When I got my Monster system, I had an
adapter made so I could use all my other cutters in it. With the
longer shafted 3/4 inch bars, it does chatter a bit, but is great with
the 1/2 inch bars.

robo hippy

Thanks for the info. I'm interested in the hollowing systems, but will
need to wait. Can't justify ~$400 to finish my first form. Sounds like
getting a heavier bar will go some way to helping with chatter.

~Mark.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:42:58 -0800 (PST), robo hippy
wrote:

snip
For the finish cut, I prefer one of the micro grain
carbide discs, available from Hunter tools, The Eliminator, and
Monster has one as well. They work at a shear/skewed angle, and give a
cleaner cut. A laser pointer is a great help as well.
snip

Yo, Reed!
Have you tried the Eliminator yet?

I'm about to order the Mega Eliminator and would love a recommendation, since
it's $170..
I've got the Oneway Termite and the "Universal super cut tool" now, but neither
are carbide and I'm thinking that's what I need for the ironwood pieces..

Let me know, ok?
Once I order it, I have to go pick it up at the border.. Sort of a PITA, but
doable..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Woody wrote:
I'm attempting my first hollow vessel. I've completed the outside to my
satisfaction and am in the process of hollowing it out. I drilled out
the center and used a bowl gouge to get the initial hollowing complete.

I'm now trying to hollow the sides out with a smaller Sorby swan neck
tool, but am getting what seems to be excessive chatter. I'm keeping the
straight part of the tool on the toolrest.

I'm convinced the tool is sharp enough and I'm hollowing from the bottom
of the vessel to the side and from the top to the side (all downhill) so
I don't believe the chatter is from going in the wrong direction. My
impression is that with light passes, the chatter goes away, but it will
take me *forever* to get the bulk of the walls thinned.

What is/are your preferred tool(s) for hollowing vessels and, in
particular, for the "bulk hollowing" after you've set the vessel depth
and done any initial bowl gouge work.

~Mark.
I bought some curved 1/4" tool steel cutters (I believe from
Packard). Drilled a hole in the end of a 3/4" steel bar (from Lowe's)
to accept the cutter and placed a couple of setscrews in the side to
hold it. I slipped the other end of the steel bar into a piece of
galvanized pipe, again held with set screws with a "T" on the pipe for
a hand hold to prevent twisting. Altogether cost about 15-20 dollars
and works for me. As you can see, I'm on a budget.

Darrel Feltmate has a similar tool on his web site,
aroundthewoods.com, except his is swan necked and uses a straight tool
and his handle has two elbows instead of a "T".

If this is too confusing from the description I can send you a couple
of pictures if you leave your email address.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Social Security: World's biggest Ponzi Scheme.

You can make a lot of hollowing tools yourself if you have metal
skills, I don't so I buy. You can reach that depth easily with a 1/2
inch tool shaft.

Mac, I have had the Eliminator for over a year and love it. It is an
excellent tool for end grain cutting. I have been doing more boxes
after taking a 3 day work shop with Bonnie Klein last fall. I had to
get a mini lathe to go with her threading jig. The Vortex strikes
again. However, I am a professional, so that makes it okay. The only
thing that I don't like about the Eliminator is that you use the discs
and then toss them. They aren't made to be resharpened. I like the way
the Super Cut cutter comes off and you put it on a mandril to sharpen
it. I would think that you could do this with the carbide discs, but
most people aren't set up to sharpen carbide though the diamond hones
would work. Back to the Eliminator, I don't think of it as a roughing
tool, more of a finish cut tool. I love the flats cut on the bottom of
the tool to keep it in a shear mode (45 degrees) which is the same
angle I kept the Super Cut set to. I think of the Kelton tools as
being a roughing tool. All of the Eliminators also are straight
shafted, and taper at the ends. You can do simple hollow forms with
them, but can't do the shoulders that you can with the goose neck
tools can. I have heard that they are making a goose neck one. You may
also want to check out the Monster System. Really excellent for
hollowing. It really is MUCH easier to use as long as you aren't going
too deep. I don't like their cutters too much as they are rather bulky
compared to the McNaughton ones. The longer, 3/4 inch ones are too
long of a lever to work well with that tool, but the smaller 1/2 inch
ones do fine. Same with the Eliminators.

robo hippy

On Jan 7, 1:46*pm, Gerald Ross wrote:
Woody wrote:
I'm attempting my first hollow vessel. I've completed the outside to my
satisfaction and am in the process of hollowing it out. I drilled out
the center and used a bowl gouge to get the initial hollowing complete.

I'm now trying to hollow the sides out with a smaller Sorby swan neck
tool, but am getting what seems to be excessive chatter. I'm keeping the
straight part of the tool on the toolrest.

I'm convinced the tool is sharp enough and I'm hollowing from the bottom
of the vessel to the side and from the top to the side (all downhill) so
I don't believe the chatter is from going in the wrong direction. My
impression is that with light passes, the chatter goes away, but it will
take me *forever* to get the bulk of the walls thinned.

What is/are your preferred tool(s) for hollowing vessels and, in
particular, for the "bulk hollowing" after you've set the vessel depth
and done any initial bowl gouge work.

~Mark.

* I bought some curved 1/4" tool steel cutters (I believe from
Packard). Drilled a hole in the end of a 3/4" steel bar (from Lowe's)
to accept the cutter and placed a couple of setscrews in the side to
hold it. I slipped the other end of the steel bar into a piece of
galvanized pipe, again held with set screws with a "T" on the pipe for
a hand hold to prevent twisting. Altogether cost about 15-20 dollars
and works for me. As you can see, I'm on a budget.

Darrel Feltmate has a similar tool on his web site,
aroundthewoods.com, except his is swan necked and uses a straight tool
and his handle has two elbows instead of a "T".

If this is too confusing from the description I can send you a couple
of pictures if you leave your email address.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Social Security: World's biggest Ponzi Scheme.

I have used several hollowing systems in the past few years. I
started out using David Ellsworth’s hollowing set. These are simply
small scrapers on round shaft. Reasonably priced and pretty
effective.

I also own a set of Hamlet hollowing tools. This set uses a ringed
cutter. It can cut a lot of wood in a short time but it sometimes
hard to control. You can get scraping tips for this system as well.
The Hamlet system is more expensive.

Both of these systems, as well as lots of others on the market, allow
you to hollow at various depths depending on the thickness of the
shaft that supports them. The heavier the shaft the deeper that you
can hollow into the wood. Otherwise you will get chatter as you
describe.

Another problem with many systems is that you must turn “blind.” In
other words you cannot see exactly where you are cutting inside the
vessel and as a result it is more difficult to know how thick your
wall is, when to stop so you don’t cut through the wall, you are not
sure how consistent your wall thickness is, etc.

More recently I have purchased a hollowing system sold by Lyle
Jamison. He and others have developed systems that use a laser
pointer to gauge wall thickness as you hollow your vessel. This unit
also has various cutting tips that can be purchased. One of the newer
types of tips for hollowing is a circular carbide cutter. It never
needs sharpening and can be replaced when it finally wares out. The
Jamison system is fairly expensive.

Each system has its own advantages and disadvantages. You have to
find the one that works best for you. To avoid spending lots of money
trying out systems it would be best if you could find turners in your
area that will either demo the system they use or better yet allow you
to turn using their tools. There are also articles to be found on the
internet that describe the pluses and minuses of various hollowing
tools.

You can see several of these systems at www.packardwoodworks.com.
Just click on woodturning tools and browse the list.

Here is an article from the Ohio Valley Woodturners Guild that
compares several hollowing systems and give links to each one that is
discussed.

Stephen Russell has an article on his site about hollowing tools also:
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com...ing-tools.html

Good Luck,
Ted

I found a three part set of articles that I read a while back. They
give a detailed survey on hollowing tools in PDF format. It would be
good to look these over before you choose a new hollowing set. I have
included the URL link to each of the three parts:

http://www.morewoodturning.net/hollow-1.pdf
http://www.morewoodturning.net/hollow-2.pdf
http://www.morewoodturning.net/hollow-3.pdf

I found these articles are very thorough and extremely helpful.

Ted

On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:39:50 -0800 (PST), robo hippy
wrote:


Mac, I have had the Eliminator for over a year and love it. It is an
excellent tool for end grain cutting.

Good to hear.. I'm trying to find a place to order the Mega Eliminator that will
enclose a receipt for under $100, so the mail service will bring it down..
It raises the cost of the tool a bunch if I have to spend $40 in gas and most of
a day to go pick it up at the border..

The only thing that I don't like about the Eliminator is that you use the discs
and then toss them. They aren't made to be resharpened. I like the way
the Super Cut cutter comes off and you put it on a mandril to sharpen it.

I haven't had a lot of success sharpening the HSS discs..
After a day of Ironwood, they're pretty bad and my sharpening skills say it's
more cost effective to buy 4 or 5 $12 discs at a time and just change them..
That's one reason that the carbide appeals to me..

Back to the Eliminator, I don't think of it as a roughing
tool, more of a finish cut tool. I love the flats cut on the bottom of
the tool to keep it in a shear mode (45 degrees) which is the same
angle I kept the Super Cut set to.
I rough out most of them with a 3/8" Oland tool..
I've never set the Supercut to 45 degrees, seems pretty aggressive.. But I use
it for some roughing...
The flats on the Eliminator appeal to me for not only shear cutting, but to be
able to change direction of the cut without completely reconfiguring the
Supercut..
(I do use the Termite a LOT, though)

All of the Eliminators also are straight shafted, and taper at the ends. You can do simple hollow forms with
them, but can't do the shoulders that you can with the goose neck tools can. I have heard that they are making a goose neck one. You may
also want to check out the Monster System. Really excellent for hollowing. It really is MUCH easier to use as long as you aren't going
too deep. I don't like their cutters too much as they are rather bulky compared to the McNaughton ones. The longer, 3/4 inch ones are too
long of a lever to work well with that tool, but the smaller 1/2 inch ones do fine. Same with the Eliminators.

I do very little of what I'd consider "hollowing", Reed... Some "globe" or
"closed" bowls, but mostly bowls and vases, plus a lot of what I consider "free
form" because I just use whatever ironwood is left on the lathe when it stops
fragmenting.. Free form seems to sell a lot better than creative mistakes..

Thanks, Reed... I want the Mega and wish I had it last month, so I guess I'll
order it and an extra cutter, even if we have to take a trip to the States to
pick it up..



robo hippy

On Jan 7, 1:46*pm, Gerald Ross wrote:
Woody wrote:
I'm attempting my first hollow vessel. I've completed the outside to my
satisfaction and am in the process of hollowing it out. I drilled out
the center and used a bowl gouge to get the initial hollowing complete.

I'm now trying to hollow the sides out with a smaller Sorby swan neck
tool, but am getting what seems to be excessive chatter. I'm keeping the
straight part of the tool on the toolrest.

I'm convinced the tool is sharp enough and I'm hollowing from the bottom
of the vessel to the side and from the top to the side (all downhill) so
I don't believe the chatter is from going in the wrong direction. My
impression is that with light passes, the chatter goes away, but it will
take me *forever* to get the bulk of the walls thinned.

What is/are your preferred tool(s) for hollowing vessels and, in
particular, for the "bulk hollowing" after you've set the vessel depth
and done any initial bowl gouge work.

~Mark.

* I bought some curved 1/4" tool steel cutters (I believe from
Packard). Drilled a hole in the end of a 3/4" steel bar (from Lowe's)
to accept the cutter and placed a couple of setscrews in the side to
hold it. I slipped the other end of the steel bar into a piece of
galvanized pipe, again held with set screws with a "T" on the pipe for
a hand hold to prevent twisting. Altogether cost about 15-20 dollars
and works for me. As you can see, I'm on a budget.

Darrel Feltmate has a similar tool on his web site,
aroundthewoods.com, except his is swan necked and uses a straight tool
and his handle has two elbows instead of a "T".

If this is too confusing from the description I can send you a couple
of pictures if you leave your email address.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Social Security: World's biggest Ponzi Scheme.


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

ThankTed wrote:
I found a three part set of articles that I read a while back. They
give a detailed survey on hollowing tools in PDF format. It would be
good to look these over before you choose a new hollowing set. I have
included the URL link to each of the three parts:

http://www.morewoodturning.net/hollow-1.pdf
http://www.morewoodturning.net/hollow-2.pdf
http://www.morewoodturning.net/hollow-3.pdf

I found these articles are very thorough and extremely helpful.

Ted

Thank you *all*. Much appreciated.

I think I'm going to look at a hollower with an arm brace (either
Stewart or Sorby) for now. Later, if I get really enamored with hollow
forms, I'll take the plunge for the Monster.

~Mark.

Mac,
Another after thought, but have you thought of the Easy Rougher?
Carbide tipped as well.
robo hippy

On Jan 9, 12:43*pm, Woody wrote:
ThankTed wrote:
I found a three part set of articles that I read a while back. *They
give a detailed survey on hollowing tools in PDF format. *It would be
good to look these over before you choose a new hollowing set. *I have
included the URL link to each of the three parts:

http://www.morewoodturning.net/hollow-1.pdf
http://www.morewoodturning.net/hollow-2.pdf
http://www.morewoodturning.net/hollow-3.pdf

I found these articles are very thorough and extremely helpful.

Ted

Thank you *all*. Much appreciated.

I think I'm going to look at a hollower with an arm brace (either
Stewart or Sorby) for now. Later, if I get really enamored with hollow
forms, I'll take the plunge for the Monster.

~Mark.

On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:43:54 -0500, Woody wrote:

I think I'm going to look at a hollower with an arm brace (either
Stewart or Sorby) for now. Later, if I get really enamored with hollow
forms, I'll take the plunge for the Monster.

~Mark.

Those things scare the hell outta me....
If I get a catch, (not that any of us actually do), I don't want the cutting
tool fastened to my arm... Maybe I'm just getting old.. lol


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:50:01 -0800 (PST), robo hippy
wrote:

Mac,
Another after thought, but have you thought of the Easy Rougher?
Carbide tipped as well.
robo hippy

Yep.. was thinking pretty seriously about it, despite the price, but except for
the re-positional carbide blade it sort of duplicates my larger Oland tools..

I still might get one, but I really haven't seen any good reviews on it, other
than their comments on their web page..
The line that scares me goes something like "Transfer the abuse from your arm to
the lathe"...
Having to sell quite a few pieces to recover the $2,500 or so for the latest
lathe, that statement sort of scares me..

Also, from the video on their page, it seems to be a great tool for conventional
bowl blanks, where you cut a slab, bandsaw it round and rough it out..
I'm mostly mounting very rough pieces of ironwood on a chuck screw and tailstock
and sneaking up in a bunch of corners and irregular shapes..
I think the easy rougher might do more harm that good on most of my stuff..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:43:54 -0500, Woody wrote:

I think I'm going to look at a hollower with an arm brace (either
Stewart or Sorby) for now. Later, if I get really enamored with hollow
forms, I'll take the plunge for the Monster.

~Mark.

Those things scare the hell outta me....
If I get a catch, (not that any of us actually do), I don't want the cutting
tool fastened to my arm... Maybe I'm just getting old.. lol

Actually they're not that bad. You'd have to be awfully aggressive to
catch that badly in my experience. Realistically, you're only looking
at 6" to 8" over the rest so they're not for really deep vessels...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org

In article ,
mac davis wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:43:54 -0500, Woody wrote:

I think I'm going to look at a hollower with an arm brace (either
Stewart or Sorby) for now. Later, if I get really enamored with hollow
forms, I'll take the plunge for the Monster.

~Mark.

Those things scare the hell outta me....
If I get a catch, (not that any of us actually do), I don't want the cutting
tool fastened to my arm... Maybe I'm just getting old.. lol

Not that I've actually used my wallet crowbar and gotten one for myself,
but the one time I made it to a guild of NH woodworkers turning thing,
one of the guys who uses them pointed out (and demonstrated) that unless
your lathe is absurdly overpowered (not a good idea) you simply stall
the lathe (or slip the belt, depending) if you get a catch with one of
these - the leverage is on your side of the toolrest, in a big way. IIRC
he was using a "horribly underpowered" 1-1/2 HP lathe to demo on, and
used a 2 or 2-1/2 HP at home.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by