Hi all, I a have huge roughing gouge, trouble is it's not supposed to be
used for bowl blanks. Apparently it's not designed to cope with the
alternating "with the grain, against the grain" cutting. I know some
turners use them on bowls but the practice is said to be dangerous. Fine by
me, I'm all for safety. BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?
Your comments would be appreciated.

On Sep 14, 6:32*am, "john" wrote:
Hi all, I a have huge roughing gouge, trouble is it's not supposed to be
used for bowl blanks. *Apparently it's not designed to cope with the
alternating "with the grain, against the grain" cutting. *I know some
turners use them on bowls but the practice is said to be dangerous. *Fine by
me, I'm all for safety. *BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?
Your comments would be appreciated.

I use a 1/2" bowl gouge, for roughing out both the inside and outside
of bowls.

The bowl gouge is preferable for a bunch of reasons. The deeper flute
of the bowl gouge makes it stiffer than a spindle gouge. Thus it
flexes less, making it more controllable, essential for when you are
reaching into the inside of a bowl. It takes a much smaller cut than
a roughing gouge (more properly called a spindle roughing gouge these
days), keeping the forces on the tool more manageable. And when a
catch does occur, the beefier tang of the bowl gouge makes the tool
stronger. I haven't seen it, but I've heard enough stories of a
spindle roughing gouge blowing apart at the handle when used on a bowl
and the end grain caught the cutting edge. Can ruin your day.

Bob in NC

john wrote:

Hi all, I a have huge roughing gouge, trouble is it's not supposed to be
used for bowl blanks. Apparently it's not designed to cope with the
alternating "with the grain, against the grain" cutting. I know some
turners use them on bowls but the practice is said to be dangerous. Fine
by
me, I'm all for safety. BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?
Your comments would be appreciated.

3/4" long handled bowl gouge which keeps me far enough away from the action
until everthing settles down.
--
Boru

I like an Oland tool for roughing or for that matter finish turning a bowl.
It is easy to make and to use.
http://aroundthewoods.com/oland.shtml
http://aroundthewoods.com/roughing.shtml

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"john" wrote in message
...
Hi all, I a have huge roughing gouge, trouble is it's not supposed to be
used for bowl blanks. Apparently it's not designed to cope with the
alternating "with the grain, against the grain" cutting. I know some
turners use them on bowls but the practice is said to be dangerous. Fine
by me, I'm all for safety. BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl
blank?
Your comments would be appreciated.

"john" writes:
BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?

Chain saw, then power plane to balance it, then bowl gouge.

I prefer a big heavy scraper. An Oland tool is a smaller scraper. You
can do as most others do and use a big bowl gouge. The thing I don't
like about the bowl gouges for roughing, is that they send the
shavings right across the top of your pinky finger and hand. Even if
the wood is wet, this is very abrasive and is why some turners wear a
glove on their left hand. If you do use a scraper, I prefer big heavy
ones, kind of like me and my lathe. They just feel better to me, and I
am very agressive when I rough out. Also, I always keep the scraper
angled slightly down.This helps prevent catches, and if you do have
one, it makes it a lot less dramatic. With scrapers, you can also both
push and pull with the tool, without having to change positions. If
you use a gouge, you generally have the flutes on their side for
roughing, and this is actually a scraping cut. How far back the flutes
are ground determine how big of a cut you can take. If you are
roughing out the inside of the bowl, you start with the flutes up to
make the entry cut, and then roll the gouge onto the side for roughing
after the cut has begun.
robo hippy

On Sep 14, 8:52*am, DJ Delorie wrote:
"john" writes:
BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?

Chain saw, then power plane to balance it, then bowl gouge.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:32:23 +0100, "john" wrote:

Hi all, I a have huge roughing gouge, trouble is it's not supposed to be
used for bowl blanks. Apparently it's not designed to cope with the
alternating "with the grain, against the grain" cutting. I know some
turners use them on bowls but the practice is said to be dangerous. Fine by
me, I'm all for safety. BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?
Your comments would be appreciated.

Since Mr. Feltmate made me an Oland tool addict, I do use them for roughing, but
I also use a roughing gouge..

IMHO, the warnings about not using roughing gouges on "bowls" is because of the
weakness of the tang part of the tool and the chance of breaking it with a lot
of leverage..
Since I am a devout coward, I avoid any turning that involves strain or
leverage, so I feel fine with a roughing gouge..
I use a 2" RG for the real grunt work, then a 1" for the finer roughing..

A few things that I should make clear:

I don't use a RG to rough hollow, just to rough shape the outside and
flatten/true the face.. (what will be the bowl bottom when it's reversed)

I keep the tool rest VERY close to the work and NEVER extend the RG more than
1/2" over the rest..

I maintain a steeper cutting angle that I need, so that in case of a catch, the
gouge is pushed down my side of the rest, not brought tip-first between the wood
and rest... Funny thing happens when the tip goes down.. the handle goes UP and
you don't want to be in the way of it.. DAMHIKT

I would NOT try to hollow the bowl with a RG... that's what bowl gouges and
Oland tools are for..

OTOH, I started doing "faceplate" turning years before I had heard of such a
tool as a bowl gouge, and somehow lived through it.. ;-]


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sep 14, 6:32*am, "john" wrote:
Hi all, I a have huge roughing gouge, trouble is it's not supposed to be
used for bowl blanks. *Apparently it's not designed to cope with the
alternating "with the grain, against the grain" cutting. *I know some
turners use them on bowls but the practice is said to be dangerous. *Fine by
me, I'm all for safety. *BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?
Your comments would be appreciated.

Hi folks, the current move to rename that wide gouge to a SPINDLE
ROUGHING GOUGE is for a very good reason. The width of the gouge is
NOT meant to go inside the confines of a bowl!! You will get a fatal
catch that will ruin your bowl or your self. Bowl work is best left to
BOWL GOUGES. You may vary the grind of the Bowl Gouge I use up to a
5/8" Irish ground gouge for hogging off wet wood. Any one suggesting
the use of the "SRG" for bowls is at best foolhardy, at worst stupid!

Marty

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:25:42 -0700 (PDT), robo hippy
wrote:

Hey Reed... Have you seen these yet?
http://tinyurl.com/64hodh

Kind of pricey, but I'd like your opinion.. I'm considering one..
I'm going to email them and make sure that it will fit a Kelton handle..



I prefer a big heavy scraper. An Oland tool is a smaller scraper. You
can do as most others do and use a big bowl gouge. The thing I don't
like about the bowl gouges for roughing, is that they send the
shavings right across the top of your pinky finger and hand. Even if
the wood is wet, this is very abrasive and is why some turners wear a
glove on their left hand. If you do use a scraper, I prefer big heavy
ones, kind of like me and my lathe. They just feel better to me, and I
am very agressive when I rough out. Also, I always keep the scraper
angled slightly down.This helps prevent catches, and if you do have
one, it makes it a lot less dramatic. With scrapers, you can also both
push and pull with the tool, without having to change positions. If
you use a gouge, you generally have the flutes on their side for
roughing, and this is actually a scraping cut. How far back the flutes
are ground determine how big of a cut you can take. If you are
roughing out the inside of the bowl, you start with the flutes up to
make the entry cut, and then roll the gouge onto the side for roughing
after the cut has begun.
robo hippy

On Sep 14, 8:52*am, DJ Delorie wrote:
"john" writes:
BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?

Chain saw, then power plane to balance it, then bowl gouge.


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mac
I looked at the site and the video. This is a nice scraper but it is just a
steel bar with a carbide cutter attached as a scraper. The cost is about
$10.00 to make. Use a stainless bar and the cost goes up but I doubt that
the cut would be any better. My big Oland with the 1/2" cutter lets me use
it to cut or scrape but I think this would be a very effective scraper.

Darrell

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:25:42 -0700 (PDT), robo hippy

wrote:

Hey Reed... Have you seen these yet?
http://tinyurl.com/64hodh

Kind of pricey, but I'd like your opinion.. I'm considering one..
I'm going to email them and make sure that it will fit a Kelton handle..



I prefer a big heavy scraper. An Oland tool is a smaller scraper. You
can do as most others do and use a big bowl gouge. The thing I don't
like about the bowl gouges for roughing, is that they send the
shavings right across the top of your pinky finger and hand. Even if
the wood is wet, this is very abrasive and is why some turners wear a
glove on their left hand. If you do use a scraper, I prefer big heavy
ones, kind of like me and my lathe. They just feel better to me, and I
am very agressive when I rough out. Also, I always keep the scraper
angled slightly down.This helps prevent catches, and if you do have
one, it makes it a lot less dramatic. With scrapers, you can also both
push and pull with the tool, without having to change positions. If
you use a gouge, you generally have the flutes on their side for
roughing, and this is actually a scraping cut. How far back the flutes
are ground determine how big of a cut you can take. If you are
roughing out the inside of the bowl, you start with the flutes up to
make the entry cut, and then roll the gouge onto the side for roughing
after the cut has begun.
robo hippy

On Sep 14, 8:52 am, DJ Delorie wrote:
"john" writes:
BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?

Chain saw, then power plane to balance it, then bowl gouge.


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

The 'Oregon' version of that tool, used by the coastal myrtlewood
turners is called 'the Big Ugly Tool'. To make it, you take a 3/4 inch
square bar stock about 30 inches long, and sliver solder a piece of
Tantung (don't know what exactly it is, but a piece about 7/8 inch
wide, and 2 plus inches long, and about 3/32 thick) onto each end. You
wear a glove on your right hand to protect it from the other cutter.
The profiles are slightly different, but the Tantung can be sharpened
on a standard grinding wheel. You can litterally turn for half a day
without having to resharpen. A wonderful tool, equally useful on
spindles and bowls. I have seen the daintiest of spindles/finials
turned with it, as well as bowls. For finish cuts, use it in a shear
angle. I love to rough out spindles with it, but prefer a wider tool
for bowls, in the 1 1/4 inch range. The only draw back to the Ci 1
Rougher is that you can't sharpen the cutters, and I am too cheap to
spend $22 for a new cutter each time I would wear one out. An
excellent tool though.
robo hippy

On Sep 15, 2:34*pm, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Mac
I looked at the site and the video. This is a nice scraper but it is just a
steel bar with a carbide cutter attached as a scraper. The cost is about
$10.00 to make. Use a stainless bar and the cost goes up but I doubt that
the cut would be any better. My big Oland with the 1/2" cutter lets me use
it to cut or scrape but I think this would be a very effective scraper.

Darrell

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canadahttp://aroundthewoods.comhttp://roundopinions.blogspot.com"mac davis" wrote in message

...



On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:25:42 -0700 (PDT), robo hippy

wrote:

Hey Reed... Have you seen these yet?
http://tinyurl.com/64hodh

Kind of pricey, but I'd like your opinion.. I'm considering one..
I'm going to email them and make sure that it will fit a Kelton handle...

I prefer a big heavy scraper. An Oland tool is a smaller scraper. You
can do as most others do and use a big bowl gouge. The thing I don't
like about the bowl gouges for roughing, is that they send the
shavings right across the top of your pinky finger and hand. Even if
the wood is wet, this is very abrasive and is why some turners wear a
glove on their left hand. If you do use a scraper, I prefer big heavy
ones, kind of like me and my lathe. They just feel better to me, and I
am very agressive when I rough out. Also, I always keep the scraper
angled slightly down.This helps prevent catches, and if you do have
one, it makes it a lot less dramatic. With scrapers, you can also both
push and pull with the tool, without having to change positions. If
you use a gouge, you generally have the flutes on their side for
roughing, and this is actually a scraping cut. How far back the flutes
are ground determine how big of a cut you can take. If you are
roughing out the inside of the bowl, you start with the flutes up to
make the entry cut, and then roll the gouge onto the side for roughing
after the cut has begun.
robo hippy

On Sep 14, 8:52 am, DJ Delorie wrote:
"john" writes:
BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?

Chain saw, then power plane to balance it, then bowl gouge.

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

robo hippy schreef:
The 'Oregon' version of that tool, used by the coastal myrtlewood
turners is called 'the Big Ugly Tool'. To make it, you take a 3/4 inch
square bar stock about 30 inches long, and sliver solder a piece of
Tantung (don't know what exactly it is, but a piece about 7/8 inch
wide, and 2 plus inches long, and about 3/32 thick) onto each end. You
wear a glove on your right hand to protect it from the other cutter.
The profiles are slightly different, but the Tantung can be sharpened
on a standard grinding wheel. You can litterally turn for half a day
without having to resharpen. A wonderful tool, equally useful on
spindles and bowls. I have seen the daintiest of spindles/finials
turned with it, as well as bowls. For finish cuts, use it in a shear
angle. I love to rough out spindles with it, but prefer a wider tool
for bowls, in the 1 1/4 inch range. The only draw back to the Ci 1
Rougher is that you can't sharpen the cutters, and I am too cheap to
spend $22 for a new cutter each time I would wear one out. An
excellent tool though.
robo hippy

As you can see he
http://www.easywoodtools.com/purchase.htm
the cutters are flat on top, so sharpening on a fine diamond stone must
be possible. Sharpening the sides would be a bit harder to do. If one
sharpens carbide, use water, the dust of carbide is poisonous.

Gerard.

http://woodarts4u.com/

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:44:38 -0700 (PDT), robo hippy
wrote:

The 'Oregon' version of that tool, used by the coastal myrtlewood
turners is called 'the Big Ugly Tool'. To make it, you take a 3/4 inch
square bar stock about 30 inches long, and sliver solder a piece of
Tantung (don't know what exactly it is, but a piece about 7/8 inch
wide, and 2 plus inches long, and about 3/32 thick) onto each end. You
wear a glove on your right hand to protect it from the other cutter.
The profiles are slightly different, but the Tantung can be sharpened
on a standard grinding wheel. You can litterally turn for half a day
without having to resharpen. A wonderful tool, equally useful on
spindles and bowls. I have seen the daintiest of spindles/finials
turned with it, as well as bowls. For finish cuts, use it in a shear
angle. I love to rough out spindles with it, but prefer a wider tool
for bowls, in the 1 1/4 inch range. The only draw back to the Ci 1
Rougher is that you can't sharpen the cutters, and I am too cheap to
spend $22 for a new cutter each time I would wear one out. An
excellent tool though.
robo hippy

Not being a metal worker, I have some drawbacks with things that I don't do,
like welding, soldering, bending, etc...
It was hard enough to make a batch of Oland tool...
Also, the carbide tip is what sort of got me interested, since I rough out a lot
of ironwood blanks that are rough and irregular shape and a 1/4" Oland is too
aggressive and is constantly being sharpened..
I'm thinking that if I was in the States and knew someone that had this tool, I
could probably make a bar to hold the tip, but being here, it's easier to just
spend the bucks and hope it decreases roughing time..

Sort of like the Termite, it's pricey, but has paid for itself many times over,
IMHO..
I could probably do as well with one of Darrell's hook tools, if I wanted to
take the time to learn metal working and blacksmith skills, but I'd rather be
turning and selling than doing that.. YMWV


On Sep 15, 2:34*pm, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:
Mac
I looked at the site and the video. This is a nice scraper but it is just a
steel bar with a carbide cutter attached as a scraper. The cost is about
$10.00 to make. Use a stainless bar and the cost goes up but I doubt that
the cut would be any better. My big Oland with the 1/2" cutter lets me use
it to cut or scrape but I think this would be a very effective scraper.

Darrell

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canadahttp://aroundthewoods.comhttp://roundopinions.blogspot.com"mac davis" wrote in message

...



On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:25:42 -0700 (PDT), robo hippy

wrote:

Hey Reed... Have you seen these yet?
http://tinyurl.com/64hodh

Kind of pricey, but I'd like your opinion.. I'm considering one..
I'm going to email them and make sure that it will fit a Kelton handle..

I prefer a big heavy scraper. An Oland tool is a smaller scraper. You
can do as most others do and use a big bowl gouge. The thing I don't
like about the bowl gouges for roughing, is that they send the
shavings right across the top of your pinky finger and hand. Even if
the wood is wet, this is very abrasive and is why some turners wear a
glove on their left hand. If you do use a scraper, I prefer big heavy
ones, kind of like me and my lathe. They just feel better to me, and I
am very agressive when I rough out. Also, I always keep the scraper
angled slightly down.This helps prevent catches, and if you do have
one, it makes it a lot less dramatic. With scrapers, you can also both
push and pull with the tool, without having to change positions. If
you use a gouge, you generally have the flutes on their side for
roughing, and this is actually a scraping cut. How far back the flutes
are ground determine how big of a cut you can take. If you are
roughing out the inside of the bowl, you start with the flutes up to
make the entry cut, and then roll the gouge onto the side for roughing
after the cut has begun.
robo hippy

On Sep 14, 8:52 am, DJ Delorie wrote:
"john" writes:
BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?

Chain saw, then power plane to balance it, then bowl gouge.

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hi all, thanks for the useful advice. Sorry for the delay replying, I had
computer problems.
Regards
John


On Sep 14, 6:32 am, "john" wrote:
Hi all, I a have huge roughing gouge, trouble is it's not supposed to be
used for bowl blanks. Apparently it's not designed to cope with the
alternating "with the grain, against the grain" cutting. I know some
turners use them on bowls but the practice is said to be dangerous. Fine
by
me, I'm all for safety. BUT, what 'do' I use to rough out a bowl blank?
Your comments would be appreciated.