Hey Guys

Im curious! how many of you turn for a living??

Thanks for all the great advice....... Have a good day

Lee Tollett

"Leetollett" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys

Im curious! how many of you turn for a living??

Thanks for all the great advice....... Have a good day

Lee Tollett

Even those whose signature on a piece allows them to collect large dollars
seldom earn a "living" by turning. They sell DVDS, lessons, and such. Sort
of like the ostrich farmers. The money's not in the meat produced, but the
sale of breeding stock.

Not me for one. I know one fellow who has benn "becoming" a full time turner
for about 7 years now. His work is excellent and he drives truck to pay the
bills. Another one I know has a military pension or he could not do it "full
time." Man he has a lot of inventory built up. A third has a wife with a
well paying teaching job. He also sells wood turning supplies. On the other
hand, a friend has been doing this full time for twenty years now. He does
sell a few turning supplies but not enough to matter. What he has is a well
deserved name built up over the years, and a select clentel who look to him
for his work, some of it sold well before it is finished.

It amazes me to see the huge number of folks who sell a few pens at a craft
market and assume they can now go full time. This is a highly competitive
market selling what are mostly luxury, read "not needed" items. Good luck
says I. Day jobs get in the way of turning, but bill collectors like them.


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"George" wrote in message
. net...

"Leetollett" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys

Im curious! how many of you turn for a living??

Thanks for all the great advice....... Have a good day

Lee Tollett

Even those whose signature on a piece allows them to collect large dollars
seldom earn a "living" by turning. They sell DVDS, lessons, and such.
Sort of like the ostrich farmers. The money's not in the meat produced,
but the sale of breeding stock.

On Feb 15, 9:35 am, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Not me for one.

Nor myself. For me, wood turning gives me a creative outlet, and is
another tool in the shop. I can get on a roll and make a lot of
different things in high volume from time to time, but regular work
takes precedence. I make enough money to pay for materials and some
nice tools, but that is about it. My goal is $1K a year gross, that's
it.

It amazes me to see the huge number of folks who sell a few pens at a craft
market and assume they can now go full time.

And you would be surprised how that translates across the crafts and
trades. If I had a nickel for every trim carpenter that I trained to
put up ceiling molding, make and hang cabinets, to hang and trim
doors, etc., that went out on his own and called later asking for
their job back, I would retire.

Folks don't do enough research about their own bills and what it takes
for them to survive. They don't include the simplest of things like
gas and transportation, rain days, or worse, quarterly deposits on
self employment taxes.

We have a couple of older fellows in our woodturning club that have
made the jump to self employment (I might add here they were quite
smug) and promptly had their feelings hurt so badly that they almost
quit turning altogether. They go the meetings now to see their
friends, not relate the stories of being shown in a gallery or the
travails of being shown properly as an artist, etc.

Sure, they sold an occasional piece, but never factored their
"art" like this:

Sales price: $900 for an American Indian water jug
(Yippee!!!)

Gallery takes 40%

Cost of large solid blank for 12" vessel: $125

Transportation to the gallery in Colorado (stuff like that won't sell
here in S. Texas) with adds for weight and insurance: $70, including
supervised packing with proper materials

Gas to pick up blank, + gas to take to shipper: $20

Wear on tools (no factor for investment in lathe, tools, and bit -
this would cause tears): $10

Power for lathe (he reports 40 hours of turning and a few more in
finishing, plus about three more for buffing): $10

Sandpaper, finish materials, buff compounds: $10

You now have $295. Take out your tax burden of about 35% for all of
it (remember, as a self employed you have to pay all the taxes, no
matching from your employer) and you have about $192 left.

He told me that he could turn one out in a week, but really it was
about 55 hours when all said and done. ($192 / 55 hours.... ouch...)

The worst part for him was he knew how much all his family and friends
loved his work, so he was ready for success. He never figured that
that the gallery wouldn't absolutely sell them as fast as he could
turn them out.

In his mind, if he kept to the stone he could sell 4 a month, every
month, making him a hefty profit. The gallery sold one or two a
month, and sometimes none when the touristas weren't there.

They both tried other galleries. They both had the same results.
They both no longer sell their work. They were smart and got out
before the IRS got to them for improper payment of taxes and before
the state got to them for not charging sales tax for items sold
through friends and out of their garages under their respective
company names.

Talk about a great way to ruin a hobby!

Robert

I hear you Robert. Here in Nova Scotia I am allowed $30,000 a year in gross
sales before charging sales tax (pardon me for laughing this hard). On the
other hand I have to pay the tax on materials I buy for this hobby/business.
It is worth it not to have to collect or declare tax. On the other hand I
declare every penny made to the tax department. It is worth it not only to
behonest but also to prevent them taking a dislike to me. I find the tax
folks extremely fair, but they expect us to pay the taxes if we owe them.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
wrote in message
...
On Feb 15, 9:35 am, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Not me for one.

Nor myself. For me, wood turning gives me a creative outlet, and is
another tool in the shop. I can get on a roll and make a lot of
different things in high volume from time to time, but regular work
takes precedence. I make enough money to pay for materials and some
nice tools, but that is about it. My goal is $1K a year gross, that's
it.

It amazes me to see the huge number of folks who sell a few pens at a
craft
market and assume they can now go full time.

And you would be surprised how that translates across the crafts and
trades. If I had a nickel for every trim carpenter that I trained to
put up ceiling molding, make and hang cabinets, to hang and trim
doors, etc., that went out on his own and called later asking for
their job back, I would retire.

Folks don't do enough research about their own bills and what it takes
for them to survive. They don't include the simplest of things like
gas and transportation, rain days, or worse, quarterly deposits on
self employment taxes.

We have a couple of older fellows in our woodturning club that have
made the jump to self employment (I might add here they were quite
smug) and promptly had their feelings hurt so badly that they almost
quit turning altogether. They go the meetings now to see their
friends, not relate the stories of being shown in a gallery or the
travails of being shown properly as an artist, etc.

Sure, they sold an occasional piece, but never factored their
"art" like this:

Sales price: $900 for an American Indian water jug
(Yippee!!!)

Gallery takes 40%

Cost of large solid blank for 12" vessel: $125

Transportation to the gallery in Colorado (stuff like that won't sell
here in S. Texas) with adds for weight and insurance: $70, including
supervised packing with proper materials

Gas to pick up blank, + gas to take to shipper: $20

Wear on tools (no factor for investment in lathe, tools, and bit -
this would cause tears): $10

Power for lathe (he reports 40 hours of turning and a few more in
finishing, plus about three more for buffing): $10

Sandpaper, finish materials, buff compounds: $10

You now have $295. Take out your tax burden of about 35% for all of
it (remember, as a self employed you have to pay all the taxes, no
matching from your employer) and you have about $192 left.

He told me that he could turn one out in a week, but really it was
about 55 hours when all said and done. ($192 / 55 hours.... ouch...)

The worst part for him was he knew how much all his family and friends
loved his work, so he was ready for success. He never figured that
that the gallery wouldn't absolutely sell them as fast as he could
turn them out.

In his mind, if he kept to the stone he could sell 4 a month, every
month, making him a hefty profit. The gallery sold one or two a
month, and sometimes none when the touristas weren't there.

They both tried other galleries. They both had the same results.
They both no longer sell their work. They were smart and got out
before the IRS got to them for improper payment of taxes and before
the state got to them for not charging sales tax for items sold
through friends and out of their garages under their respective
company names.

Talk about a great way to ruin a hobby!

Robert

On Feb 15, 5:39 am, Leetollett wrote:
Hey Guys

Im curious! how many of you turn for a living??

Thanks for all the great advice....... Have a good day

Lee Tollett

Not me either. Like Robert, I use this as a release from the ordeal of
finishing a Ph.D. I've sold some of my stuff and I've gone to
christmas bazaars and the like, but it was so I could purchase some
nice tools without getting in trouble with my wife.

I enjoy it too much to make it a job.

JD

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:39:08 -0600, Leetollett wrote:

Hey Guys

Im curious! how many of you turn for a living??

Thanks for all the great advice....... Have a good day

Lee Tollett

Lee... I'm a full-time turner, but would be homeless if I didn't also do web
pages..lol

I turn 6 or 7 days a week and do at least one local show a month and will never
make enough to pay for my old equipment, much less the new lathe..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I have one friend who turns full time for a living. He and his wife
have no kids. They both work. He does shows, and does comercial
projects. He earns a living and his wife has benefits. I turn full
time, but not as a job, even though it is my only work. I have other
income. I do take in about $28,000 a year from my woodworking
business. If I were really intent on doing it as a full income job, it
would be possible, but too much work to be as much fun as it is now. I
would have to do more demos which would mean more travel, and time
away from home. I would have to have several DVD's out to sell (my one
and only thus far cost me about $10,000 for production and first 1,000
copies. I have made about $300 back thus far). I would probably have
to move to a bigger population area for being able to do more demos. I
would have to do more shows (at least 1 per month, and probably 20 per
year). More travel expences. I am having too much fun to do all of
that, but it does pay for my habit, and some of the bills.
robo hippy
On Feb 15, 10:44*am, JD wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:39 am, Leetollett wrote:

Hey Guys

* * * * Im curious! *how many of you turn for a living??

Thanks for all the great advice....... * Have a good day

Lee Tollett

Not me either. Like Robert, I use this as a release from the ordeal of
finishing a Ph.D. I've sold some of my stuff and I've gone to
christmas bazaars and the like, but it was so I could purchase some
nice tools without getting in trouble with my wife.

I enjoy it too much to make it a job.

JD

Just what I expected.... LOL I love woodworking to much to turn
it into a business. i take money for my furniture but only for
materials. That way no IRS. I do loose the cost of electricity
and heat, but that's a small price to pay. I build for family
and friends mainly.

Thanks for all the replies guys... have a good one Lee

mac davis wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:39:08 -0600, Leetollett wrote:


Hey Guys

Im curious! how many of you turn for a living??

Thanks for all the great advice....... Have a good day

Lee Tollett


Lee... I'm a full-time turner, but would be homeless if I didn't also do web
pages..lol

I turn 6 or 7 days a week and do at least one local show a month and will never
make enough to pay for my old equipment, much less the new lathe..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Rick,

Do you have a website? I'd love to see some of your work.

JD

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 07:46:56 -0800 (PST), JD wrote:

Rick,

Do you have a website? I'd love to see some of your work.

JD

His site (gleaned from his email address) is like mine, a work in progress.. ;-]


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Feb 15, 7:39 am, Leetollett wrote:

Im curious! how many of you turn for a living??

I do, though we do now rely on my wife's income to a large extent.
Been at it for 12+ years now. It's nearly all production work, trying
new products and marketing approaches as needed. I used to teach, but
have dropped that now as the demand here was too inconsistent and it
became more of a hassle than anything.

Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for
woodturners

On Feb 15, 3:39 am, Leetollett wrote:
Hey Guys

Im curious! how many of you turn for a living??

Thanks for all the great advice....... Have a good day

Lee Tollett


Hello Lee,

A lot of people have told you their stories and stories of others who
tried to make a living simply turning wood. Before I retired, I had
been a manager for many years and the last eight years a business
owner. When I retired, I thought I would supplement my retirement
income with my turnings. From 1993 to 1996, I did about 12 shows a
year. I kept track of my total expenses over that three year period
and my total income from turning. At the end of three years, I found
that I had averaged earning 25 cents per hour. It was hardly worth the
effort. I stuck to writing about woodturning and started More
Woodturning.

I interviewed Richard Raffan several years ago for a story. Richard
said that anyone wishing to turn wood full time to make a living also
needed a partner with a full time job that would cover the living
expenses for them both. He also said it helped to write a few books,
teach a few classes, do paid demonstrations, etc.

My recommendation to anyone wishing to turn wood full time to make
sure they have some other extra income to support them and their
family so that the income from woodturning will simply be a bonus.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

I guess some of you guys may be missing a point - for those who have a
day job (if its a night job, I dont want to know about it), its quite
obvious that
the right thing to do is to hold on to it with both hands but for
those retired,
you should actually compare the income made (even those 25c per hour)
to not selling anything and accumilating expenses on harware and
materials.
just covering your expenses has the double advantage of stroking the
ego
and ... well, not loosing any money in the process of having fun.
Im still some distance away from retiring and to tell the truth, more
than once in a
while envious of the time many of you have.
turn for fun,
Max

On Feb 19, 10:35 am, Max63 wrote:

I guess some of you guys may be missing a point

Maybe - but the OP was asking how many turn "for a living" as in
making one.

There absolutely isn't one thing wrong with turning for fun or a tidy
profit, or even like I do - to be able to buy more woodturning stuff.

There is a huge difference though in "turning for a living" as your
source of income to support yourself and your family. That is a job.

Selling a pen or a bowl here and there, that's fun. It's a hobby.
It's "turning for fun" and if that's what you want to do, that's
great. I don't know how many pens or bowls you would have to sell to
make your house and car payment, though.

turn for fun,
Max

I'm with you.

Robert