Prior to my shelling out $$ for buffing equipment I would ask a couple
questions.
Let's assume I have turned my bowl and sanded to around 220 or so. I
then apply some Watco Danish oil, or BLO. I sand more to around 500
grit. After sanding to 500 would be the point to start the buffing,
yes? After buffing I could then apply shellac if that was my
preference, yes?

Kevin wrote:
Prior to my shelling out $$ for buffing equipment I would ask a couple
questions.
Let's assume I have turned my bowl and sanded to around 220 or so. I
then apply some Watco Danish oil, or BLO. I sand more to around 500
grit. After sanding to 500 would be the point to start the buffing,
yes? After buffing I could then apply shellac if that was my
preference, yes?


See the buffing instructions on Beall's web site at:

http://www.bealltool.com/pdfs/woodbuff.pdf

and

http://www.bealltool.com/pdfs/bowl_buff.pdf

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

"Kevin" wrote in message
ups.com...
Prior to my shelling out $$ for buffing equipment I would ask a couple
questions.
Let's assume I have turned my bowl and sanded to around 220 or so. I
then apply some Watco Danish oil, or BLO. I sand more to around 500
grit. After sanding to 500 would be the point to start the buffing,
yes? After buffing I could then apply shellac if that was my
preference, yes?


Sanding aims to fool the touch and the eye. 220 would certainly be enough
to fool the touch. Deviations in the surface would be imperceptible. The
20/20 eye, according to those who research such things, can discern about
300 medium-contrast line pairs per inch. Which compares favorably with 320
grit paper, with a mesh designed to pass 320 particles/inch. If you then
sand with the grain you reduce the contrast below the visual threshold
because you don't have tears and grooves across it. They are high-contrast
conflicts.

When you buff, you take the tiny rough edges off the scratches and round the
edges of pores, reducing light scatter. You also burnish the surface, which
you could do with shavings, as in the old trick, or a paper bag. Less
scatter, greater depth, more contrast.

Surface finishes do about the same thing as buffing, in a slightly different
manner. Their refractive index optically smoothes over and rounds the rough
edges of scratches, allowing more light to return to your eye without
scatter.

In short, buff the finish if you're going to use a finish, so that it forms
a reflective or transparent surface without scatter. Buffing before the
finish doesn't really do anything for you.

I sand to 320 on coarse-grain and 400 on fine grain woods, and it seems to
fool everyone's eye, including mine. From there it's two 1# washes with 400
dewhisker in between, and polish with the same 1# cut, lubricated with a bit
of non-curing oil. No real need to buff after you spirit off. I would
imagine that the fibers you laid down and burnished in with your buffer
would whisker up with alcohol/water anyway.

On Oct 10, 4:19 pm, Kevin wrote:
Prior to my shelling out $$ for buffing equipment I would ask a couple
questions.
Let's assume I have turned my bowl and sanded to around 220 or so. I
then apply some Watco Danish oil, or BLO. I sand more to around 500
grit. After sanding to 500 would be the point to start the buffing,
yes? After buffing I could then apply shellac if that was my
preference, yes?

Hi Kevin, First off I have to wonder why you would use Danish oil at
the 220 point.
It seems to me that this is a bit pointless. Why not sand to finish
and then put the Danish oil on.
Danish oil won't raise the grain. If you have a reason I would like to
hear it.
As to the sanding I almost never go above 320 when the piece is going
to have some sort of finish.
If you were going with no finish at all sanding higher would be
needed.
I normally sand to 320 then put on a couple coats of danish oil.
Before any finish can be put over the danish oil you need to let it
cure a couple of days minimum.
At this point I prefer 2-3 coats of a good quality paste wax and then
buff. An alternative here which I use
sometimes is the bealle system. Well worth the investment.
If your going to use shellac rather than wax make sure it is fully
cured before buffing.
I don't use this method on all woods as different woods require
different finishes.
Bob
http://www.outofcontrol-woodturning.com

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:19:42 -0700, Kevin wrote:

Prior to my shelling out $$ for buffing equipment I would ask a couple
questions.
Let's assume I have turned my bowl and sanded to around 220 or so. I
then apply some Watco Danish oil, or BLO. I sand more to around 500
grit. After sanding to 500 would be the point to start the buffing,
yes? After buffing I could then apply shellac if that was my
preference, yes?

Kevin.. My 2 cents after buffing a few hundred pens and bowls:

I usually sand bowls to 600, 800 if I think it requires it, then buff and it's
done...

I never use D. oil until it's finished sanded UNLESS I'm wet sanding with it,
which I do a lot with non-oily woods..

IMHO, I would never oil AFTER buffing because:

As George said, you buff a finish, not finish a buffed piece..

Unless you skipped the (3rd) wax wheel, oil wouldn't stick to it, would it?
I would hope that melted and buffed carnauba wax would be semi-water and oil
proof..

I have SO much stain and stuff that I save for flat work now... I have maybe
$200 invested in the buffing system and 3 sizes of bowl buffs and I've saved a
lot more than that in the stains, top coats, etc. that I haven't used for a
couple of years...
I like my work so much better with that "glowing" sheen... and it's so much
faster and easier than other finishes... Instant gratification..

Also, it's nice to tell clients that the finish is natural and the wax is an
ingredient in chewing gum and lots of other food stuff..

I find that with most hardwoods, I can go right from sanding to buffing, without
oil or anything..

NOTE: Don't EVER oil paduak and buff it, it is oily enough without it and turns
your wheels orange.. DAMHIKT




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Thanks for all the replies.
To Turner Bob: I oil the piece after sanding to 220 to 'pop' the
grain. As maple is the wood I
use more than all others combined, there are times when the oil really
brings out the
'pretties' in the wood. I go to 220 oil, and then proceed on to 320
and perhaps higher is I
think I have read that if the oil is to serve as as protectant of one
form or another, it may well
penetrate better than if applied after sanding is finished (around 500
or so).
Nova's sending of the pdf's helped out quite a bit letting me know
what to expect in many ways.




On Oct 11, 11:26 am, mac davis wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:19:42 -0700, Kevin wrote:
Prior to my shelling out $$ for buffing equipment I would ask a couple
questions.
Let's assume I have turned my bowl and sanded to around 220 or so. I
then apply some Watco Danish oil, or BLO. I sand more to around 500
grit. After sanding to 500 would be the point to start the buffing,
yes? After buffing I could then apply shellac if that was my
preference, yes?

Kevin.. My 2 cents after buffing a few hundred pens and bowls:

I usually sand bowls to 600, 800 if I think it requires it, then buff and it's
done...

I never use D. oil until it's finished sanded UNLESS I'm wet sanding with it,
which I do a lot with non-oily woods..

IMHO, I would never oil AFTER buffing because:

As George said, you buff a finish, not finish a buffed piece..

Unless you skipped the (3rd) wax wheel, oil wouldn't stick to it, would it?
I would hope that melted and buffed carnauba wax would be semi-water and oil
proof..

I have SO much stain and stuff that I save for flat work now... I have maybe
$200 invested in the buffing system and 3 sizes of bowl buffs and I've saved a
lot more than that in the stains, top coats, etc. that I haven't used for a
couple of years...
I like my work so much better with that "glowing" sheen... and it's so much
faster and easier than other finishes... Instant gratification..

Also, it's nice to tell clients that the finish is natural and the wax is an
ingredient in chewing gum and lots of other food stuff..

I find that with most hardwoods, I can go right from sanding to buffing, without
oil or anything..

NOTE: Don't EVER oil paduak and buff it, it is oily enough without it and turns
your wheels orange.. DAMHIKT

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Kevin wrote:

Prior to my shelling out $$ for buffing equipment I would ask a couple
questions.
Let's assume I have turned my bowl and sanded to around 220 or so. I
then apply some Watco Danish oil, or BLO. I sand more to around 500
grit. After sanding to 500 would be the point to start the buffing,
yes? After buffing I could then apply shellac if that was my
preference, yes?

Kevin, you mentioned using shellac, therefore I assume you have some.
Before you shell out the big bucks try this. Power sand to 320 (HF has a
nice offset drill motor for about 20 bucks - then use whatever system
catches your fancy. I like Powerlock) THEN, stop the lathe, put on two
liberal coats of shellac (I use ultra blond). As soon as they are dry,fire
up the lathe and buff with 0000 steelwool and then apply a couple of coats
Briwax (or wax of your choice) and buff with a soft cloth on the lathe.

See if you like the results.

Deb

Reverse lathe for final Powerlock and clear with compressed air.
Reverse lathe for final steelwool and clear with compressed air.
The reversing seems to help the smooth feel and the compressed air keeps the
true wood colors (walnut for extreme example).


"Dr. Deb" wrote in message
...
Kevin wrote:

Prior to my shelling out $$ for buffing equipment I would ask a couple
questions.
Let's assume I have turned my bowl and sanded to around 220 or so. I
then apply some Watco Danish oil, or BLO. I sand more to around 500
grit. After sanding to 500 would be the point to start the buffing,
yes? After buffing I could then apply shellac if that was my
preference, yes?

Kevin, you mentioned using shellac, therefore I assume you have some.
Before you shell out the big bucks try this. Power sand to 320 (HF has a
nice offset drill motor for about 20 bucks - then use whatever system
catches your fancy. I like Powerlock) THEN, stop the lathe, put on two
liberal coats of shellac (I use ultra blond). As soon as they are
dry,fire
up the lathe and buff with 0000 steelwool and then apply a couple of coats
Briwax (or wax of your choice) and buff with a soft cloth on the lathe.

See if you like the results.

Deb