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Old October 5th 04, 06:08 PM
Darren
 
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Default Buffing?

I am making a wooden bowl and used epoxy and LPU Top Coat (www.systemthree.com) to seal it. I lightly sanded between each coat but is there anything I could do on the last coat to help the "smoothness" of it? It is pretty smooth now but there is an occasional slight brush mark, small bubble etc. I was thinking maybe steel wool then buff it (with what?) or something. With other non lathe projects, with varnish, I don't touch the final coat at all but I was hoping there would be something someone could suggest for this. I talked to System Three guys and they say it can be buffed and polished after it has cured completely.

I have never buffed anything before so what do I do I need to do it? Will that bring out the slight brush marks and things like that?

Thanks
Darren

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Old October 5th 04, 06:29 PM
George
 
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Default

There's a difference between level and shine. If you don't want every
irregularity to become more evident, you need to level before buffing, or
buff to less than shine, so the light returning to your eye is scattered. I
like the 3M sponge-backed extra fine as a level, followed by a buff with
Tripoli - which is a less than full shine - then I decide if I want to go
rouge.

You should use the leveling sandpaper with some sort of backing to spread
the pressure to bridge minor defects, and some lube to keep the "bite"
constant.

"Darren" wrote in message
...
I am making a wooden bowl and used epoxy and LPU Top Coat
(www.systemthree.com) to seal it. I lightly sanded between each coat but is
there anything I could do on the last coat to help the "smoothness" of it?
It is pretty smooth now but there is an occasional slight brush mark, small
bubble etc. I was thinking maybe steel wool then buff it (with what?) or
something. With other non lathe projects, with varnish, I don't touch the
final coat at all but I was hoping there would be something someone could
suggest for this. I talked to System Three guys and they say it can be
buffed and polished after it has cured completely.

I have never buffed anything before so what do I do I need to do it? Will
that bring out the slight brush marks and things like that?

Thanks
Darren


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Old October 6th 04, 08:32 AM
Owen Lowe
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , "George" [email protected]t
wrote:


You should use the leveling sandpaper with some sort of backing to spread
the pressure to bridge minor defects, and some lube to keep the "bite"
constant.


Right. I'd suggest Darren pick up a book on auto finishing. The final
sanding prior to buffing levels the surface to a glass smooth finish.
For lacquer finishes I use grits on the order of 800-1500 with soapy
water acting as a lubricant. Be extra careful at the edges. Epoxy
behaves similarly to lacquer; make sure both are *fully* cured - I wait
at least 30 days before "color sanding," as it's called.
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Old October 6th 04, 04:19 PM
Steve Russell
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hello Darren,

I have used epoxy for almost ten years and continue to use it for numerous
lathe projects (high end projects primarily), buffing it to the appropriate
lustre level desired when it has fully cured. Your chemists recommendation
to wait until the epoxy has fully cured before buffing is absolutely
correct. If you try to buff epoxy before it has fully cured, you will
develop a most unacceptable result. There are numerous ways to buff epoxy...
Since I do not know what you may have on hand in your studio, I will offer
several options that you may wish to consider:

1.) Cutting Waxes: Cutting waxes are light waxes with an ultra fine abrasive
suspended in the wax. The wax acts as a carrier, allowing an efficient
method to apply the compound and assists in an even cut. Cutting (or
Deluxing Waxes) are better for new woodturners to use to delux their cured
film surfaces, as they are less aggressive than buffing wheels charged with
an appropriate compound. When used correctly, they can produce magnificent
results. EEE Ultra Shine and Arbortechıs Burnishing Wax are examples of
excellent cutting waxes.

2.) Buffing Wheels: 6² or 8² cloth buffing wheels, charged with Tripoli, or
White Diamond can produce excellent results on cured epoxy surfaces. Of the
two, I much prefer the White Diamond compound, as it is less aggressive and
produces a far higher ultimate lustre. The speed and aggressiveness of the
buff should be altered to match the specific epoxy film thickness on the
project and the specific lustre desired. Since you did not state the lustre
you were trying to achieve, itıs hard to recommend specific speeds. Be
careful to control heat during the buffing protocol to prevent heat induced
checking in exotic timbers.

3.) Deluxing Fluids: If the film surface is not too irregular, a deluxing
fluid can be used in conjunction with a cloth applicator pad. This will only
remove the visual haze that may be present from steel wool, or synthetic
wire wood that has been applied to the surface and will not remove heavy
orange peel. Deluxing fluids are similar to cutting waxes, but are in a
liquid form and require power buffing to perfect the film surface. With
epoxy it is particularly important to apply the epoxy smoothly, as
subsequent buffing of the cured film surface is incrementally harder than
buffing cured oil (and similar) finishes. The efficient and uniform ³laying
on² of the epoxy to the surface can significantly reduce the amount of
post-application buffing that may be required. I prefer to spray epoxy as
this produces the most uniform film surface and requires less buffing than
when applied by brushing, dipping, or wiping. The key here is to get a
smooth a layer as possible, so your deluxing protocol of the cured film is
easier.

4.) Wet Sanding: If your surface film is very irregular, a wet sanding may
be necessary to remove the high spots to prepare the surface for deluxing. I
would wet sand to at least 2000-grit metric before switching to any of the
above deluxing methods.

5.) Micro Mesh Abrasives: Micro Mesh abrasives work very well on epoxy and
can raise the lustre level to 12000-grit. Many of my smaller projects are
deluxed with Micro Mesh, including epoxy finished, man-made plastics, bone,
antler and other materials. You can apply Micro Mesh by hand if necessary,
using the supplied dense foam applicator. Micro Mesh can be used wet, or dry
and are very easy to use. At 12000-grit, the human eye cannot see the
resultant scratch pattern and visually the surface will appear wet. Very
nice abrasives indeed.

Note: Bubbles in the cured film can usually be prevented by altering the
application protocol. You mentioned brush marks, so you must have applied
the epoxy with a brush. Did you thin the epoxy at all before application to
the surface? What type of brush did you use? The el-cheapo throw away ³chip²
style brushes leave lots of brush marks, and can loose hairs during the
application as well. Thinning the epoxy is important to get a good lay-on,
and will prevent bubbles from forming during the application. It is also
important to prep the surface properly before applying your epoxy topcoat.
Did you apply a thin sealer prior to the topcoat? A thin epoxy sealer helps
to prep the surface and allows a smoother lay-on of the ultimate topcoat. If
you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thanks and all
the best to you and yours!

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available for
Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available for Shipment


On 10/5/04 11:08 AM, in article , "Darren"
wrote:

I am making a wooden bowl and used epoxy and LPU Top Coat (www.systemthree.com
http://www.systemthree.com ) to seal it. I lightly sanded between each coat
but is there anything I could do on the last coat to help the "smoothness" of
it? It is pretty smooth now but there is an occasional slight brush mark,
small bubble etc. I was thinking maybe steel wool then buff it (with what?) or
something. With other non lathe projects, with varnish, I don't touch the
final coat at all but I was hoping there would be something someone could
suggest for this. I talked to System Three guys and they say it can be buffed
and polished after it has cured completely.

I have never buffed anything before so what do I do I need to do it? Will
that bring out the slight brush marks and things like that?

Thanks
Darren





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Old October 6th 04, 05:56 PM
Darren
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Buffing?Thanks - this is the kind of info I was looking for. It looks like I have some time also to check out some books.

Thanks
Darren
"Steve Russell" wrote in message ...
Hello Darren,

I have used epoxy for almost ten years and continue to use it for numerous lathe projects (high end projects primarily), buffing it to the appropriate lustre level desired when it has fully cured. Your chemists recommendation to wait until the epoxy has fully cured before buffing is absolutely correct. If you try to buff epoxy before it has fully cured, you will develop a most unacceptable result. There are numerous ways to buff epoxy... Since I do not know what you may have on hand in your studio, I will offer several options that you may wish to consider:

1.) Cutting Waxes: Cutting waxes are light waxes with an ultra fine abrasive suspended in the wax. The wax acts as a carrier, allowing an efficient method to apply the compound and assists in an even cut. Cutting (or Deluxing Waxes) are better for new woodturners to use to delux their cured film surfaces, as they are less aggressive than buffing wheels charged with an appropriate compound. When used correctly, they can produce magnificent results. EEE Ultra Shine and Arbortech's Burnishing Wax are examples of excellent cutting waxes.

2.) Buffing Wheels: 6" or 8" cloth buffing wheels, charged with Tripoli, or White Diamond can produce excellent results on cured epoxy surfaces. Of the two, I much prefer the White Diamond compound, as it is less aggressive and produces a far higher ultimate lustre. The speed and aggressiveness of the buff should be altered to match the specific epoxy film thickness on the project and the specific lustre desired. Since you did not state the lustre you were trying to achieve, it's hard to recommend specific speeds. Be careful to control heat during the buffing protocol to prevent heat induced checking in exotic timbers.

3.) Deluxing Fluids: If the film surface is not too irregular, a deluxing fluid can be used in conjunction with a cloth applicator pad. This will only remove the visual haze that may be present from steel wool, or synthetic wire wood that has been applied to the surface and will not remove heavy orange peel. Deluxing fluids are similar to cutting waxes, but are in a liquid form and require power buffing to perfect the film surface. With epoxy it is particularly important to apply the epoxy smoothly, as subsequent buffing of the cured film surface is incrementally harder than buffing cured oil (and similar) finishes. The efficient and uniform "laying on" of the epoxy to the surface can significantly reduce the amount of post-application buffing that may be required. I prefer to spray epoxy as this produces the most uniform film surface and requires less buffing than when applied by brushing, dipping, or wiping. The key here is to get a smooth a layer as possible, so your deluxing protocol of the cured film is easier.

4.) Wet Sanding: If your surface film is very irregular, a wet sanding may be necessary to remove the high spots to prepare the surface for deluxing. I would wet sand to at least 2000-grit metric before switching to any of the above deluxing methods.

5.) Micro Mesh Abrasives: Micro Mesh abrasives work very well on epoxy and can raise the lustre level to 12000-grit. Many of my smaller projects are deluxed with Micro Mesh, including epoxy finished, man-made plastics, bone, antler and other materials. You can apply Micro Mesh by hand if necessary, using the supplied dense foam applicator. Micro Mesh can be used wet, or dry and are very easy to use. At 12000-grit, the human eye cannot see the resultant scratch pattern and visually the surface will appear wet. Very nice abrasives indeed.

Note: Bubbles in the cured film can usually be prevented by altering the application protocol. You mentioned brush marks, so you must have applied the epoxy with a brush. Did you thin the epoxy at all before application to the surface? What type of brush did you use? The el-cheapo throw away "chip" style brushes leave lots of brush marks, and can loose hairs during the application as well. Thinning the epoxy is important to get a good lay-on, and will prevent bubbles from forming during the application. It is also important to prep the surface properly before applying your epoxy topcoat. Did you apply a thin sealer prior to the topcoat? A thin epoxy sealer helps to prep the surface and allows a smoother lay-on of the ultimate topcoat. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thanks and all the best to you and yours!

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning Industries

"Woodturning with Steven D. Russell" Volume #1 CD ROM - Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video - Available for Shipment


On 10/5/04 11:08 AM, in article , "Darren" wrote:


I am making a wooden bowl and used epoxy and LPU Top Coat (www.systemthree.com http://www.systemthree.com ) to seal it. I lightly sanded between each coat but is there anything I could do on the last coat to help the "smoothness" of it? It is pretty smooth now but there is an occasional slight brush mark, small bubble etc. I was thinking maybe steel wool then buff it (with what?) or something. With other non lathe projects, with varnish, I don't touch the final coat at all but I was hoping there would be something someone could suggest for this. I talked to System Three guys and they say it can be buffed and polished after it has cured completely.

I have never buffed anything before so what do I do I need to do it? Will that bring out the slight brush marks and things like that?

Thanks
Darren







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