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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#41
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
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#42
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:38:15 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Oh they can go into a basement shop ..getting them out..now there is a serious issue...G Isn't that always the case? Getting it IN is easy... G |
#43
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
Brian Henderson wrote:
I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful. What are you welding, thimbles? -- John L. Weatherly Nashville, TN please remove XXXs to reply via email |
#44
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
On Mar 4, 1:36 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
wrote: On Mar 3, 2:00 pm, Brian Henderson wrote: On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 01:57:09 GMT, Lobby Dosser wrote: Brian Henderson wrote: Then I'm not typical because the overwhelming majority of my buys have been brand new. Then again, just about every serious woodworker I know also bought primarily new. The cost of a pretty decent shop is going to be in the neighborhood of $10K, if you can find a house for that much, buy it. Does that include the forklift? I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful. Where are you going to park the forklift when you're not using it anyhow? Isn't that just wasted space that you could have more tools or storage? Access to a forklift and pallet jack would be very nice. All of the shipping of large woodworking tools come to the freight terminal in your city unless you ask for curbside delivery with a liftgate truck. And that costs a hundred or so more dollars. With a forklift and pallet jack you would not have to pay this extra shipping fee. I can't see where the pallet jack helps unless you have a dock. OTOH, it seems to me that a clever wooddorker might build a deck the right height to be a dock and be careful with the gardening and problem solved. The house I grew up in was actually built that way--you could back an 18-wheeler up to the front porch and start unloading. Then my mother started gardening . . . -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Put the forklift and forklift onto a trailer and haul it to the trucking terminal. Have the people in the terminal put the pallet with tool on it at the edge of the dock. Use the forklift to get the pallet and tool off the dock and onto the trailer. Use the pallet jack to position the pallet and tool at one end of the trailer. Drive the forklift back onto the trailer. Pull the trailer with pallet and tool and pallet jack and forklift home. Drive forklift off trailer. Use pallet jack to move pallet and tool to one end of trailer. Use forklift to pick up pallet and tool and drive inside the shop, or more likely, near the door into the shop since the forklift is too big to go into the shop through the door. Get pallet jack off trailer and use it to move pallet and tool into shop through door and put it where you want it in the shop. Seems kind of simple that having a forklift completely eliminates the need for a dock at your home. And the pallet jack makes it possible to move the tool exactly where you need it. |
#45
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
On Mar 2, 2:58 pm, "Too_Many_Tools" wrote:
Say you want to setup a home shop for both metal and wood working....what older American or European machines would you choose to populate the shop with? In a home shop environment, the size of the work envelope can vary greatly with the work done so a number of different candidates exist for the same function performed. With welders, I would consider that newer machines might be more desirable. I have listed what categories I would consider might be wanted in a combination metal and wood work shop for the serious hobbist. I look forward to hearing of your choices and the reasons why. And feel free to add any tool that I might have forgotten. Thanks TMT = Metalworking - vertical mill - horizontal mill - metal shaper - slower drill press - small metal lathe - larger metal lathe - horizontal metal bandsaw - vertical metal bandsaw - surface grinder - bench grinder - band/disc sander - belt sander - tool grinder - air compressor - arbor press - hydraulic press - heat treating furnace - bender, brake, shear, slip roll = Woodworking - table saw - cross miter saw - radial arm saw - scroll saw - vertical wood bandsaw - jointer - planer - wood shaper - wood lathe - faster drill press = Welding - ARC welder - TIG welder - MIG welder - A/Ox welder = Material Handling - SMALL forklift (1000-2000lbs.) - Pallet jack TMT Unless you have a LOT of room and ideally a 2 room shop the wood and metal combo can be pretty evil. But the thing is what are you doing with them all. As a home shop unless space and budget are infinite you have to make a few choices usually. the first thing that i think of is what are you doing with it. Basically you need to decide whats going to be the core tool of the shop for the work you do. the Core tools should be the best you can possibly get and well setup and tooled to handle as many functions as possible. For those who dont have infinite space it becomes far more important to think of "Can i do it with what i have and just maybe adjust the tooling" thats why all of the model engineer books form way back post WW2 were so LATHE centric because milling machines were not cheap or common but in comparison functional lathes were the trick is to decide on the best tool to do the most jobs well. And ideally the best tool for the job you do most at the same time. the trick is to get the right tools at the heart the building out is easy. the woodworking equivalent of the Well tooled lathe is a well equipped tablesaw for almost any woodworking requiring right angle type cuts and a good bandsaw for stuff like boatbuilding and luthier type work where almost nothing is at right angles and even LESS is in a stright line Most Home shops will do mainly one or two things and hopefully be adaptable to cope with other needs A few general examples of the "core tools" and where a shop should focus A welding shop doing ornamental iron will have a good welding machine (Process chosen by user preference) good O/A for heating shaping and specialized cutting stuff, drill press, horizontal bandsaw, good benches and vises as the "heart" of the shop But mills and lathes are not critical in a shop wherer most of the work is by eyeball and welding a Machine shop will be focused on the Lathe and mill and associated tooling as its core and the associated tooling and measurement a close second. Stuff like grinders and jigborers and even to an extent welding equipment are secondary since it can be worked around if need be they are important but the shop wont grind to a halt or turn down work because the jig borer is on the fritz A forging shop needs a furnace to make castings. On the woodworking side a furniture shop needs the tablesaw Jointer and planer, Specialist shops might need steam bending equipment and the bandsaw as their core A luthier will be all planes bandsaw and benching as his primary tools. Butthe drum maker (Luthiers backwoods cousin) will either have a giant lathe or a router with all sorts of weird jigs as the core A woodturning shop will be focuses on the Lathe Sharpening and tooling And the list can go on and on from there. Apologies to anyone who disapproves of my example of a core tools list To me I do occasional woodworking stuff but my shop is drifting to be what i would consider a prototype shop. I have a background in electronics so my tools there are top notch which are kind of Unnecessary when this is posted in welding woodworking and metal newsgroups so i'll spare the details But making circuit boards and the parts to control what i want to make is important. So the Core of my shop right now is a well tooled lathe and a Good Tig welder and a compressor to power hand tools, A milling machine is VERY much in the cards but a CNC circuit board router is WAY up on my list compared to just about EVERYONE reading this but by the same token my Machinists Vice and a good array of hammers get as much mileage as my bench grinder. the woodworking stuff i have gets used often enough but that having been said my secodary is metal art and thats a lot looser in terms of specs since its all in how the eyeball likes it and because i TIG weld i get secondary side jobs of just about anything broken that anyone has in metal I think the list is overkill because sets of it are perfect for everyone but its too much for any one human. that haivng been said i would LOVE to have the space to amass that much but the trick is to find a core and build it up. I will likely get a a milling machine then get a big lathe and using my smaller lathe and mill recondition the big one then get rid of the lightweight atlas and get another machine to recondition with the big lathe and mill etc....... but its all about finding the core that lets you do the most with the least and working up form there Brent Ottawa Ontario |
#46
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 21:16:00 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote: On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:38:15 GMT, Gunner wrote: Oh they can go into a basement shop ..getting them out..now there is a serious issue...G Isn't that always the case? Getting it IN is easy... G Getting it in /in one piece/ and operable, with no big holes in the floor above, is almost as easy. Some days, Mr. Gravity is not your friend. ;-P -- Bruce -- |
#47
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
You should look into a Altendorf sliding table saw, it has a smaller
footprint than a unisaw with support tables built around it, and is is very versatile. |
#48
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
On Mar 4, 7:00 am, Brian Henderson
wrote: On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 01:57:09 GMT, Lobby Dosser wrote: Brian Henderson wrote: Then I'm not typical because the overwhelming majority of my buys have been brand new. Then again, just about every serious woodworker I know also bought primarily new. The cost of a pretty decent shop is going to be in the neighborhood of $10K, if you can find a house for that much, buy it. Does that include the forklift? I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful. Where are you going to park the forklift when you're not using it anyhow? Isn't that just wasted space that you could have more tools or storage? The guy with the workshop next to mine (100m2 so not small but not too big) has a great setup using a hand forklift (Crown electric job). 1 wall of pallet racking and everything that is non-essential is palletised. Table-saw, thicknesser, pan-brake, lathe etc etc. Floor layout has various locations with "drop-in anchors" already in the slab. If he's doing a project that requires the metal-working stuff, it comes down off the racks, gets bolted down and away you go. Woodworking and metal-working in the same workshop is less than ideal, granted, but some of us don't get the choice. Good dust extraction and regular cleaning is the key. For limited space is takes some beating. Keeping the floor space clear also makes cleaning up the dust (metal and wood) soooooooo much easier too. Piles of sawdust and grinding sparks makes for lots of sirens and flashing lights and an insurance company saying "what were you thinking!, don't think so mate". |
#49
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
On Mar 3, 3:00 pm, Brian Henderson
wrote: On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 01:57:09 GMT, Lobby Dosser wrote: Brian Henderson wrote: Then I'm not typical because the overwhelming majority of my buys have been brand new. Then again, just about every serious woodworker I know also bought primarily new. The cost of a pretty decent shop is going to be in the neighborhood of $10K, if you can find a house for that much, buy it. Does that include the forklift? I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful. Where are you going to park the forklift when you're not using it anyhow? Isn't that just wasted space that you could have more tools or storage? Regarding the 3 lathes - you state: (1) small and (2) larger metal lathe, and (3) wood lathe... Instaed of 3 - just get one old used USA made metal turning lathe - Like a South Bend 13...plenty about if you look - even high school metal shops...use it for the small, larger and for the wood lathe - just bolt a piece angle to crossslide and go - I have been making beautiful wood turnings on my SB 13 for years...and even if a bit worn - will work better than most imports, and the home shop doesn't really need brand new accuracy anyhow - plus once you get to know it - you can make it as accurate as you understand the machine...it's a woman though - but a good one.. For wood - I use hgihest (factory) speed most the time (1100 rpm) on 13 inch metal lathe - and that works fine - I can even make 1/8 thin dowels just fine at that speed (most would say too slow) ..it can even be a bit fast idf turning 12" logs. I like the SB weight and drive so much I bought a shot 16/24 gap bed just to turn into a wood lathe...far outperfoms any factory wood lathe when you put a 14' out of balnce log on it (columns for a fireplace mantel) |
#50
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.woodturning,sci.engr.joining.welding
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
This was a *home* shop??
goodgawd.... Too many tools, indeed! And, 5,000 sq ft oughtta just about be enough space.... If space is an issue, consider that wood and metal often don't mix. Ditto grinding dust and ways, welding sparks/fumes/flash and fire/health, etc. Layout is probably as much of an issue as tool selection. -- ------ Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message: Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican. Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way* to Materially Improve Your Family's Life. The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive! entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie, all d'numbuhs "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ps.com... Say you want to setup a home shop for both metal and wood working....what older American or European machines would you choose to populate the shop with? In a home shop environment, the size of the work envelope can vary greatly with the work done so a number of different candidates exist for the same function performed. With welders, I would consider that newer machines might be more desirable. I have listed what categories I would consider might be wanted in a combination metal and wood work shop for the serious hobbist. I look forward to hearing of your choices and the reasons why. And feel free to add any tool that I might have forgotten. Thanks TMT = Metalworking - vertical mill - horizontal mill - metal shaper - slower drill press - small metal lathe - larger metal lathe - horizontal metal bandsaw - vertical metal bandsaw - surface grinder - bench grinder - band/disc sander - belt sander - tool grinder - air compressor - arbor press - hydraulic press - heat treating furnace - bender, brake, shear, slip roll = Woodworking - table saw - cross miter saw - radial arm saw - scroll saw - vertical wood bandsaw - jointer - planer - wood shaper - wood lathe - faster drill press = Welding - ARC welder - TIG welder - MIG welder - A/Ox welder = Material Handling - SMALL forklift (1000-2000lbs.) - Pallet jack |
#51
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
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#52
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
On 3 Mar 2007 18:19:24 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote: Okay....now I understand. VERY USEFUL machines, Every shop should have at least one. Here is a site that discusses a number of variations. http://www.stackers.co.uk/ The downside is most cannot cross gravel or grass....so the search for a smaller pneumatic forklift. What... the hell... is a "pneumatic forklift"? |
#53
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
"Prometheus" wrote in message ... http://www.stackers.co.uk/ The downside is most cannot cross gravel or grass....so the search for a smaller pneumatic forklift. What... the hell... is a "pneumatic forklift"? Only the tyres are pneumatic. The lift is hydraulic.... |
#54
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
"Prometheus" wrote in message ... On 3 Mar 2007 18:19:24 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools" wrote: Okay....now I understand. VERY USEFUL machines, Every shop should have at least one. Here is a site that discusses a number of variations. http://www.stackers.co.uk/ The downside is most cannot cross gravel or grass....so the search for a smaller pneumatic forklift. What... the hell... is a "pneumatic forklift"? The term pneumatic refers to pressurizedair powered. I don't think a pneumatic forklift is in existance at this time, or ever will be. I think the original poster meant hydraulic forklift, which is still inaccurate, considering the fact that the electric models on the web site he provided all use hydraulic pumps to lift the forks. The proper term he may be looking for is internal combustion engine powered. |
#55
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:35:45 -0400, "Brian"
wrote: "Prometheus" wrote in message .. . On 3 Mar 2007 18:19:24 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools" wrote: Okay....now I understand. VERY USEFUL machines, Every shop should have at least one. Here is a site that discusses a number of variations. http://www.stackers.co.uk/ The downside is most cannot cross gravel or grass....so the search for a smaller pneumatic forklift. What... the hell... is a "pneumatic forklift"? The term pneumatic refers to pressurizedair powered. I don't think a pneumatic forklift is in existance at this time, or ever will be. I think the original poster meant hydraulic forklift, which is still inaccurate, considering the fact that the electric models on the web site he provided all use hydraulic pumps to lift the forks. The proper term he may be looking for is internal combustion engine powered. I know- hence the ellipses. I guess the point I was making rather obliquely is that if a guy doesn't know that there is no such thing as an air-powered forklift, it's probably not a good idea to buy one and try it out around the house- especially after he puts the tines through one of the walls, and gets it stuck in that grass he thinks it might cross. If you already know how to drive one, they're easy enough- but I wouldn't want a beginner driving one around anything I cared about. Most folks think it's just like drving a car, and proceed to smash things up nicely the first time they give it a whirl. Only thing I'd take on grass with tines on it is a tractor or a skyjack. Even gravel is usually asking for trouble with your average shop forklift- and if you don't have a good sized truck to pull it out, you're in for a lot of work when it gets stuck. But while we're on the subject, if any of you guys are thinking that you might need such a thing (and I've considered the value of a home forklift once or twice, I admit, but it soon passes,) it's worthwhile to look into getting a used Ford type N tractor. They're little, and have a power takeoff and hydraulic attachments that make them useful for all sorts of things around the yard, like digging holes with an auger, plowing the driveway, digging trenches to bury lines, putting a boom on it to lift shingles or trusses if you're inclined to do a little roofing or framing, etc- and they usually go for about $2k, which is less than a forklift, IIRC. Not so good inside the shop, unless you've got a really big shop, but one of those would get stuff off a truck and to the inside of the door pretty easily, and a pallet jack will usually do the job once you get stuff that far. |
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