I normally spray a finish but on repair work I need something that will dry
much quicker. I was wondering what most used for a glossy finish on pens and
such things while spinning on a lathe. I've read some on wax's and such and
would like to know just what in your opinions work the best.

Dick

--
RHN Custom Billiard Cues
Building fine cues for real pool players at
affordable prices. All work guaranteed.
Dick Neighbors Cincinnati OH
(513) 233-7499
web-site http://dickiecues.com
e-mail

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:51:49 -0500, "Dick"
wrote:


I normally spray a finish but on repair work I need something that will dry
much quicker. I was wondering what most used for a glossy finish on pens and
such things while spinning on a lathe. I've read some on wax's and such and
would like to know just what in your opinions work the best.

While I don't know how well it would work on pens, I have got some
fantastic results from applying shellac while a piece is on the lathe
and turning slowly. How fast it dries will depend on the cut, but it
will be fast no matter what- a really thick cut (3lb.- which is how it
comes in the can from the store) will take about 10 minutes to set up
enough to sand and recoat, but a thinner cut will dry much more
quickly. A 1/2 lb cut will be dry almost before you're done applying
it to the entire piece.

I let it continue to spin while drying (again, *slowly*) to prevent
any large drips or runs. Spinning it fast when drying will cause an
orangepeel effect on the surface that you'll need to sand out.

Sand with 320 between each coat, and build it until you're happy with
the finish. To shine it up, I usually burnish with a paper bag at a
reasonably high speed.

You can put wax over the top of that, if you like- though it does not
seem to add much to it if you've really polished the shellac.

There are two downsides to this (always has to be a catch, right?)
First, it's really messy. Cover the ways with some paper towels or
whatever, and make sure you don't care much about what you're wearing.
Second, sanding and burnishing fresh shellac smells like a wet dog.

Another really good thing to note is that you can sand to insanely
fine grits- and while this is more work than it may be worth for a lot
of things, it will start to look like it's made out of glass by about
1500 grit with no finish at all. In that case, a single coat of just
about any top coat will do. Deft is a decent one if you are a fan of
laquer (and it smells better than shellac!)

get some carnuba wax and melt it into a solid lump (let it cool and harden).
Get the work spinning Good and fast onthe lathe, and apply the lump of wax
until it generates enough friction to melt a thin layer onto the piece. Let
it cool for a minute, and apply a soft rag (or similar buffer - use
appropriate cautions to keep the fingers attached), and buff it up. Glass
like, hard finish that can be applied as fast as you can move the hunk of
wax. I use this for all kinds of work - bowls, wands, pretty much anything
that ins't going into a larger piece.

another method of application (if you're carefull) is to take a largish rag,
and fold it up into a fairly narrow band. Sprinkle carnuba wax flakes into
the rag as you fols it, so that the inside of the folds are full of wax
flakes. Once again, apply the rag to the spinning piece, and the heat will
melt the wax and it will seep through the rag onto the work......

note that Carnuba wax has a fairly high melting point - I don't know what it
is, but its high enough to be markedy uncomfortable if it drips on your hand
when liquid......

--JD





"Dick" wrote in message
...

I normally spray a finish but on repair work I need something that will
dry much quicker. I was wondering what most used for a glossy finish on
pens and such things while spinning on a lathe. I've read some on wax's
and such and would like to know just what in your opinions work the best.

Dick

--
RHN Custom Billiard Cues
Building fine cues for real pool players at
affordable prices. All work guaranteed.
Dick Neighbors Cincinnati OH
(513) 233-7499
web-site http://dickiecues.com
e-mail

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:48:16 -0500, "jd" wrote:

get some carnuba wax and melt it into a solid lump (let it cool and harden).
Get the work spinning Good and fast onthe lathe, and apply the lump of wax
until it generates enough friction to melt a thin layer onto the piece. Let
it cool for a minute, and apply a soft rag (or similar buffer - use
appropriate cautions to keep the fingers attached), and buff it up. Glass
like, hard finish that can be applied as fast as you can move the hunk of
wax. I use this for all kinds of work - bowls, wands, pretty much anything
that ins't going into a larger piece.

another method of application (if you're carefull) is to take a largish rag,
and fold it up into a fairly narrow band. Sprinkle carnuba wax flakes into
the rag as you fols it, so that the inside of the folds are full of wax
flakes. Once again, apply the rag to the spinning piece, and the heat will
melt the wax and it will seep through the rag onto the work......

note that Carnuba wax has a fairly high melting point - I don't know what it
is, but its high enough to be markedy uncomfortable if it drips on your hand
when liquid......

About 80C or 175F. If it's pure carnauba then when it gets hard it's
harder than concrete.

I remember my first encounter with it--I expected it to be, well,
_wax_, not something with the general demeanor of a rock.

"Dick" wrote in message
...

I normally spray a finish but on repair work I need something that will
dry much quicker. I was wondering what most used for a glossy finish on
pens and such things while spinning on a lathe. I've read some on wax's
and such and would like to know just what in your opinions work the best.

Dick

--
RHN Custom Billiard Cues
Building fine cues for real pool players at
affordable prices. All work guaranteed.
Dick Neighbors Cincinnati OH
(513) 233-7499
web-site http://dickiecues.com
e-mail

Hello JD,

Chemistry is a bit of a hobby for me and I noticed your post about Carnauba
wax. This is a bit of info from one of my articles on waxes that is on
point:

Carnauba wax is the hardest natural vegetable wax, with a penetration of
only 2 dmm at 25 degrees Centigrade and only 3 dmm at 43.3 degrees
Centigrade. It is brittle and non-tacky with a melting point of
approximately 84 degrees Centigrade. This wax produces a very high gloss and
is frequently used to increase the melting point, gloss level, durability
and lubricity of other waxes.

If you would like to read the complete article (very comprehensive article
on various waxes), point your browser to the following:

http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/wax-finishes.html

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thanks and
all the best to you and yours!
--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

Website: http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com
Free Monthly Woodturning Newsletter * Your email is kept confidential
Sign up at: http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/lathe-talk.html



On 2/15/07 7:48 AM, in article ,
"jd" wrote:

get some carnuba wax and melt it into a solid lump (let it cool and harden).
Get the work spinning Good and fast onthe lathe, and apply the lump of wax
until it generates enough friction to melt a thin layer onto the piece. Let
it cool for a minute, and apply a soft rag (or similar buffer - use
appropriate cautions to keep the fingers attached), and buff it up. Glass
like, hard finish that can be applied as fast as you can move the hunk of
wax. I use this for all kinds of work - bowls, wands, pretty much anything
that ins't going into a larger piece.

another method of application (if you're carefull) is to take a largish rag,
and fold it up into a fairly narrow band. Sprinkle carnuba wax flakes into
the rag as you fols it, so that the inside of the folds are full of wax
flakes. Once again, apply the rag to the spinning piece, and the heat will
melt the wax and it will seep through the rag onto the work......

note that Carnuba wax has a fairly high melting point - I don't know what it
is, but its high enough to be markedy uncomfortable if it drips on your hand
when liquid......

--JD





"Dick" wrote in message
...

I normally spray a finish but on repair work I need something that will
dry much quicker. I was wondering what most used for a glossy finish on
pens and such things while spinning on a lathe. I've read some on wax's
and such and would like to know just what in your opinions work the best.

Dick

--
RHN Custom Billiard Cues
Building fine cues for real pool players at
affordable prices. All work guaranteed.
Dick Neighbors Cincinnati OH
(513) 233-7499
web-site http://dickiecues.com
e-mail

Many Pen turners including myself are using CA glue as a finish for
pens. It stands up much better than wax based finishes for items that
see considerable handling. If you want to learn more check out the
library area of the IAP:
www.penturners.org/
Another good resource is the Yahoo penturners group. Both have
articles on different CA finishes.
Brad
HardingPens.com
On Feb 14, 7:51 pm, "Dick" wrote:
I normally spray a finish but on repair work I need something that will dry
much quicker. I was wondering what most used for a glossy finish on pens and
such things while spinning on a lathe. I've read some on wax's and such and
would like to know just what in your opinions work the best.

Dick

--
RHN Custom Billiard Cues
Building fine cues for real pool players at
affordable prices. All work guaranteed.
Dick Neighbors Cincinnati OH
(513) 233-7499
web-site http://dickiecues.com
e-mail

With just shellac I have found the finish to gum up and become uneven. That
is, if you try to work the finish for more than 20 seconds. Try 2 parts
shellac to 1 part mineral oil..... It's basically motorized french polish.
The oil gravitates to the top and lubricates. The shellac migrates to the
bottom. You can keep working it while the shellac sets up. Just wipe off the
oil after the shellac has hardened up.

It will give you a very quick (minutes) very glossy finish (if that's what
you want)

-Steve


"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:51:49 -0500, "Dick"
wrote:


I normally spray a finish but on repair work I need something that will
dry
much quicker. I was wondering what most used for a glossy finish on pens
and
such things while spinning on a lathe. I've read some on wax's and such
and
would like to know just what in your opinions work the best.

While I don't know how well it would work on pens, I have got some
fantastic results from applying shellac while a piece is on the lathe
and turning slowly. How fast it dries will depend on the cut, but it
will be fast no matter what- a really thick cut (3lb.- which is how it
comes in the can from the store) will take about 10 minutes to set up
enough to sand and recoat, but a thinner cut will dry much more
quickly. A 1/2 lb cut will be dry almost before you're done applying
it to the entire piece.

I let it continue to spin while drying (again, *slowly*) to prevent
any large drips or runs. Spinning it fast when drying will cause an
orangepeel effect on the surface that you'll need to sand out.

Sand with 320 between each coat, and build it until you're happy with
the finish. To shine it up, I usually burnish with a paper bag at a
reasonably high speed.

You can put wax over the top of that, if you like- though it does not
seem to add much to it if you've really polished the shellac.

There are two downsides to this (always has to be a catch, right?)
First, it's really messy. Cover the ways with some paper towels or
whatever, and make sure you don't care much about what you're wearing.
Second, sanding and burnishing fresh shellac smells like a wet dog.

Another really good thing to note is that you can sand to insanely
fine grits- and while this is more work than it may be worth for a lot
of things, it will start to look like it's made out of glass by about
1500 grit with no finish at all. In that case, a single coat of just
about any top coat will do. Deft is a decent one if you are a fan of
laquer (and it smells better than shellac!)



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Feb 15, 11:35 am, "Brad" wrote:
Many Pen turners including myself are using CA glue as a finish for
pens. It stands up much better than wax based finishes for items that
see considerable handling. If you want to learn more check out the
library area of the IAP:www.penturners.org/

I also am mostly using the CA and Boiled Linseed Oil (CA/BLO) approach
for pens. The durability is good and its relatively easy to do.
I've also had decent luck with Behlens Woodturner finish which is even
easier, but might not be as long lasting as the CA/BLO approach.
Either way I finish up with a wax. Carnauba is good, but Renaissance
seems to be a bit better.

Sorry if the shows up twice.... I waited a day

With just shellac I have found the finish to gum up and become uneven. That
is, if you try to work the finish for more than 20 seconds. Try 2 parts
shellac to 1 part mineral oil..... It's basically motorized french polish.
The oil gravitates to the top and lubricates. The shellac migrates to the
bottom. You can keep working it while the shellac sets up. Just wipe off the
oil after the shellac has hardened up.

It will give you a very quick (minutes) very glossy finish (if that's what
you want)

-Steve


"Dick" wrote in message
...

I normally spray a finish but on repair work I need something that will
dry much quicker. I was wondering what most used for a glossy finish on
pens and such things while spinning on a lathe. I've read some on wax's
and such and would like to know just what in your opinions work the best.

Dick

--
RHN Custom Billiard Cues
Building fine cues for real pool players at
affordable prices. All work guaranteed.
Dick Neighbors Cincinnati OH
(513) 233-7499
web-site http://dickiecues.com
e-mail




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Hey Steve,
Both the same with me. Shellac neat tends to gum up and sometimes I wait
a day and don't know if everybody else but me got my post or what. I
thought it was just WebTv, but I guess not.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I think it's a teranews thing ....what do you want for nothing but a $4
setup fee. I may have to get out the wallet crowbar.

I had been using newsguy, but they moved facilities over the holidays and
apparently had quite the worst-case scenario. They were down for a week and
hobbled for nearly a month. As an IT guy, it was a bit like watching a bus
crash (I had to look). My subscription has since lapsed.

So I have found teranews to be a pretty good backup for the price.... but
really finicky on posts.


-Steve




"Arch" wrote in message
...
Hey Steve,
Both the same with me. Shellac neat tends to gum up and sometimes I wait
a day and don't know if everybody else but me got my post or what. I
thought it was just WebTv, but I guess not.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Brad wrote:
Many Pen turners including myself are using CA glue as a finish for
pens. It stands up much better than wax based finishes for items that
see considerable handling. If you want to learn more check out the
library area of the IAP:
www.penturners.org/
Another good resource is the Yahoo penturners group. Both have
articles on different CA finishes.
Brad
HardingPens.com

I use CA over BLO (no need to wait for it to dry, just soak, wipe,
polish and CA, then polish at high speed to 12000) and carnauba wax over
that. Shines like fine crystal and the finish on the barrel will outlast
(for me, anyways) the finish on the metal parts.

YMMV but that is what seems to work best for me.

Bill

--
Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one
rascal less in the world.
Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)
http://nmwoodworks.com


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http://www.avast.com

On Feb 14, 7:51 pm, "Dick" wrote:
I normally spray a finish but on repair work I need something that will dry
much quicker. I was wondering what most used for a glossy finish on pens and
such things while spinning on a lathe. I've read some on wax's and such and
would like to know just what in your opinions work the best.

Dick

--
RHN Custom Billiard Cues
Building fine cues for real pool players at
affordable prices. All work guaranteed.
Dick Neighbors Cincinnati OH
(513) 233-7499
web-site http://dickiecues.com
e-mail

Thanks for the information fellows. I haven't been ignoring you as I've been
reading the replies 3 or 4 times a day. I have a U.V. outfit for putting on
a finish but the U.V. will not stick to phenolic without an epoxy sealer so
that takes longer than spraying automotive finish. When building a cue I
don't mind having to take a few days or a week to apply and rub out a good
finish but often people come in just to have a shaft made or a butt cap
replaced and this repair work needs a finish on the end of the shaft where
it meets the butt of the cue. It needs to be fairly durable and look good,
quickly. I know those words don't fit together, good and quickly. I have
been using thin CA for a finish on these shafts for some time but as a
little time expires this finish seems to break down badly. It turns white
and chips and peels badly. Maybe I'm using the wrong CA or my technique is
wrong but I have quit using it and that's the reason I am looking for a
substitute.
Thanks,
Dick

--
RHN Custom Billiard Cues
Building fine cues for real pool players at
affordable prices. All work guaranteed.
Dick Neighbors Cincinnati OH
(513) 233-7499
web-site http://dickiecues.com
e-mail
"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Brad wrote:
Many Pen turners including myself are using CA glue as a finish for
pens. It stands up much better than wax based finishes for items that
see considerable handling. If you want to learn more check out the
library area of the IAP:
www.penturners.org/
Another good resource is the Yahoo penturners group. Both have
articles on different CA finishes.
Brad
HardingPens.com

I use CA over BLO (no need to wait for it to dry, just soak, wipe, polish
and CA, then polish at high speed to 12000) and carnauba wax over that.
Shines like fine crystal and the finish on the barrel will outlast (for
me, anyways) the finish on the metal parts.

YMMV but that is what seems to work best for me.

Bill

--
Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one
rascal less in the world.
Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)
http://nmwoodworks.com


---
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Virus Database (VPS): 000714-2, 02/16/2007
Tested on: 2/16/2007 11:38:11 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:57:26 -0500, "Stephen M"
wrote:

With just shellac I have found the finish to gum up and become uneven. That
is, if you try to work the finish for more than 20 seconds. Try 2 parts
shellac to 1 part mineral oil..... It's basically motorized french polish.
The oil gravitates to the top and lubricates. The shellac migrates to the
bottom. You can keep working it while the shellac sets up. Just wipe off the
oil after the shellac has hardened up.

That's something worth trying, but one thing does immediately come to
mind- how old is your shellac? I did find that when it was very
fresh, it works great, but the can that I have had for a year or two
now no longer will set up properly at all, and becomes gummy and
uneven just as you've described. Could have been old shellac- but if
that *is* the case, the mineral oil is a superb tip. Being sort of on
the poor end of the income spectrum, finding a way to rejuvinate my
3/4 full can of shellac would be great.

It will give you a very quick (minutes) very glossy finish (if that's what
you want)

-Steve

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 15:08:10 -0500, "Dick"
wrote:

Thanks for the information fellows. I haven't been ignoring you as I've been
reading the replies 3 or 4 times a day. I have a U.V. outfit for putting on
a finish but the U.V. will not stick to phenolic without an epoxy sealer so
that takes longer than spraying automotive finish. When building a cue I
don't mind having to take a few days or a week to apply and rub out a good
finish but often people come in just to have a shaft made or a butt cap
replaced and this repair work needs a finish on the end of the shaft where
it meets the butt of the cue. It needs to be fairly durable and look good,
quickly. I know those words don't fit together, good and quickly. I have
been using thin CA for a finish on these shafts for some time but as a
little time expires this finish seems to break down badly. It turns white
and chips and peels badly. Maybe I'm using the wrong CA or my technique is
wrong but I have quit using it and that's the reason I am looking for a
substitute.

Ahhh...

Yeah, stay away from shellac for pool cues, of course. Maybe it's
different in your neck of the woods, but around here, pool is a
drinking game, and alcohol will dissolve that finish in a matter of
seconds.

Give a can of Deft a try- you'll need to clean up with laquer thinner,
but I've found it to be not only quick, but reasonably attractive as
well- and it has a long shelf life. I don't know exactly how long,
but there was a can in my basement when I bought my house over two
years ago from a 90 year old lady, and when I tested it out, it's
still working well. Odds are the stuff is thirty years old or better.
(I'm only the third owner of the place since it was built in 1946, and
all political correctness aside, I can't see that nice old lady down
in the basement clearcoating stuff with laquer- she was still pretty
spry, but there was obviously some arthritis going on when we signed
the closing papers.)

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
I did find that when it was very
fresh, it works great, but the can that I have had for a year or two
now no longer will set up properly at all, and becomes gummy and
uneven just as you've described. Could have been old shellac- but if
that *is* the case, the mineral oil is a superb tip. Being sort of on
the poor end of the income spectrum, finding a way to rejuvinate my
3/4 full can of shellac would be great.


Oil won't rejuvenate partially cured shellac. All it does is lubricate the
rag. Old shellac is useful for tack cloths, but not at all as a wood
finish.

George wrote:

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
I did find that when it was very
fresh, it works great, but the can that I have had for a year or two
now no longer will set up properly at all, and becomes gummy and
uneven just as you've described. Could have been old shellac- but if
that *is* the case, the mineral oil is a superb tip. Being sort of on
the poor end of the income spectrum, finding a way to rejuvinate my
3/4 full can of shellac would be great.


Oil won't rejuvenate partially cured shellac. All it does is lubricate
the rag. Old shellac is useful for tack cloths, but not at all as a
wood finish.

Prometheus could end up with a lot of tack rags! But George is right,
old shellac is otherwise useless as side pockets on a pig.

IIRC, the traditional way to check shellac is to spill a bit onto a flat
surface and let it dry overnight. If it's hard in the morning, it's
still good. If it's soft, it's old.

Hmmm. Maybe I'm a can of shellac. I'm getting a bit soft and just
turned 50 a couple weeks ago. ;-)

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
Registered Linux User No: 307357

With just shellac I have found the finish to gum up and become uneven.
That
is, if you try to work the finish for more than 20 seconds. Try 2 parts
shellac to 1 part mineral oil..... It's basically motorized french
polish.
The oil gravitates to the top and lubricates. The shellac migrates to the
bottom. You can keep working it while the shellac sets up. Just wipe off
the
oil after the shellac has hardened up.

That's something worth trying, but one thing does immediately come to
mind- how old is your shellac? I did find that when it was very
fresh, it works great, but the can that I have had for a year or two
now no longer will set up properly at all, and becomes gummy and
uneven just as you've described.


It's not an old shellac issue. The gummines comes bcause the finish dries
too fast ... not to slow. IME, when I put just shellac on a spinning turing,
the finish starts to cure in about 15 seconds. Inside of a minute, it's
thick and sticky. This stickyness causes more friction, and consequently
heat, which causes the finish to firm up even faster.

The problem is with the "sticky" property. I find that it tends to clump up
the shellac, the opposite of having it flow out. The result is thick and
thin bands of finish around the axis of rotation. It's basically a violation
of the "keep a wet edge" rule of shellac application. But keeping a wet edge
on a spining object tends to spray shellac everywhere (my low speed ain't
that low).

The solution is to add mineral oil to lubricate, just like a french polish.

-Steve



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com