hi to all,
i am still new to the art of woodturning and i am still investing in
high quality tools as i have always been told to buy the best i can
afford. i have been having probloms sharpening my tools as i dont want
to ruin a good tool with a bench grinder as i get the gitters when i
start to sharpen them.even at the best of times i think that they could
be sharper and neater looking. so i started to sharpen them on a good
oil stone this does the job but i dont know if they are as sharp as
they could be or good for the tool. any help on the subject would
apprecated. many thanks and safe turning!!

Hello Keith,

My best recommendation for any beginning woodturner is to get a sharpening jig.
If you can't afford one, then you can make one out of wood. The Jig will give
you repeatable sharpenings and sharper tools and a smoother bevel. There are
several good ones on the market. I have the Oneway Wolverine jig on a Woodcraft
slow speed grinder. I also have a Woodcut Tru-Grind Shaptening System. The
Woodcut system is slightly less expensive for the basic set. The Oneway
Wolverine system provides bases for each wheel. With the Woodcut you have to
purchase a second base slide if you want to be able to use both wheels. You can
make a quite useable copy of either of these systems out of wood that will do
the job nicely.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

In article .com, keith
says...

hi to all,
i am still new to the art of woodturning and i am still investing in
high quality tools as i have always been told to buy the best i can
afford. i have been having probloms sharpening my tools as i dont want
to ruin a good tool with a bench grinder as i get the gitters when i
start to sharpen them.even at the best of times i think that they could
be sharper and neater looking. so i started to sharpen them on a good
oil stone this does the job but i dont know if they are as sharp as
they could be or good for the tool. any help on the subject would
apprecated. many thanks and safe turning!!



--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

On 18 May 2006 14:04:46 -0700, "keith" wrote:

hi to all,
i am still new to the art of woodturning and i am still investing in
high quality tools as i have always been told to buy the best i can
afford. i have been having probloms sharpening my tools as i dont want
to ruin a good tool with a bench grinder as i get the gitters when i
start to sharpen them.even at the best of times i think that they could
be sharper and neater looking. so i started to sharpen them on a good
oil stone this does the job but i dont know if they are as sharp as
they could be or good for the tool. any help on the subject would
apprecated. many thanks and safe turning!!

Hi Keith,

First, take a deep breath. It's not a bad idea to buy good tools, but
you can't be afraid to use them. It sounds like you think that one
awkward slip will render your best gouge useless, and that isn't true.

My chisels are middle-to-low quality- I got a free set from Delta when
I bought my midi lathe, and they've been good enough for me. They're
not HSS, they're Chromium-Tungsten-Molybendium (I forget what the
trade term for that metal is) and I sharpen them on a regular
one-speed bench grinder on the wheels that it came with. Sure, I
burned the tips once or twice when I first got them, and even managed
to get the spindle gouge to look more like a needle than it aught to
have at one point- but with a month or two of daily practice while
turning got me to a point where I could sharpen without thinking twice
about it, and I'm sure you'll be able to do it as well.

Those tools I learned on lost about 1/4" of metal- almost nothing in
the grand scheme of things, and I did some terrible things to them
with my first attempts to sharpen them. And as a bonus, I now am able
to quickly fix nicked chisels and plane irons on any old regular
grinder as well. It's been a skill well worth aquiring.

Just keep your passes on the wheel light and brief- you're touching an
edge up, not grinding a bolt off an engine or something. If you find
you're burning a lot, get the wheels running, then shut off the power
and do your grinding while the wheels slow down- it's a good training
technique, actually.

Good Luck!

Keith,
Here is a great discussion on homemade jigs:
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=472
I think Darrel Feldmate's approach is easy, costs peanuts, and is very
effective:
http://www.aroundthewoods.com/
My post in the first link shows an effective modification. I have used
Darrel's system for two years now as a "temporary" solution. It has
become permanent.
Jerry Hall

keith wrote:
hi to all,
i am still new to the art of woodturning and i am still investing in
high quality tools as i have always been told to buy the best i can
afford. i have been having probloms sharpening my tools as i dont want
to ruin a good tool with a bench grinder as i get the gitters when i
start to sharpen them.even at the best of times i think that they could
be sharper and neater looking. so i started to sharpen them on a good
oil stone this does the job but i dont know if they are as sharp as
they could be or good for the tool. any help on the subject would
apprecated. many thanks and safe turning!!

Hi Keith,

I agree with Fred that for a beginner, like myself, a sharpening jig is the
best way to go. While I have started with less expensive tools from Harbor
Freight and Penn State Ind., I still did not want to destroy them while
learning to turn and how to correctly sharpen them. I decide to go with the
sharpening jig from Penn State Ind.,
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lcgrind4.html, because it was less
expensive than the two Fred mentioned and came complete with everything you
need including 2 bases. It has worked great for me in repeatability of
sharpening my tools quickly and get back to turning. Whether you buy a jig
on make one of your own, it will be a great asset to becoming a better
turning because your tools will be sharp and easier to work with.

John



"Fred Holder" wrote in message
...
Hello Keith,

My best recommendation for any beginning woodturner is to get a sharpening
jig.
If you can't afford one, then you can make one out of wood. The Jig will
give
you repeatable sharpenings and sharper tools and a smoother bevel. There
are
several good ones on the market. I have the Oneway Wolverine jig on a
Woodcraft
slow speed grinder. I also have a Woodcut Tru-Grind Shaptening System. The
Woodcut system is slightly less expensive for the basic set. The Oneway
Wolverine system provides bases for each wheel. With the Woodcut you have
to
purchase a second base slide if you want to be able to use both wheels.
You can
make a quite useable copy of either of these systems out of wood that will
do
the job nicely.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

In article .com, keith
says...

hi to all,
i am still new to the art of woodturning and i am still investing in
high quality tools as i have always been told to buy the best i can
afford. i have been having probloms sharpening my tools as i dont want
to ruin a good tool with a bench grinder as i get the gitters when i
start to sharpen them.even at the best of times i think that they could
be sharper and neater looking. so i started to sharpen them on a good
oil stone this does the job but i dont know if they are as sharp as
they could be or good for the tool. any help on the subject would
apprecated. many thanks and safe turning!!



--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

I'm also new and originally tried to sharpen my gouges and skews with a
Veritas tool rest (but no jigs). I had a terrible time--was not able to get
the edges clean and smooth, had lots of facets, and the tool angles were all
wrong. Finally broke down and purchased the Tru-Grind jig and within an hour
all of my gouges and skews had perfect edges--it was that easy to learn to
use it. Even my fingernail grinds look perfect, and more important--cut
perfectly. I recommend this jig highly...

Chuck


"keith" wrote in message
oups.com...
hi to all,
i am still new to the art of woodturning and i am still investing in
high quality tools as i have always been told to buy the best i can
afford. i have been having probloms sharpening my tools as i dont want
to ruin a good tool with a bench grinder as i get the gitters when i
start to sharpen them.even at the best of times i think that they could
be sharper and neater looking. so i started to sharpen them on a good
oil stone this does the job but i dont know if they are as sharp as
they could be or good for the tool. any help on the subject would
apprecated. many thanks and safe turning!!

On 18 May 2006 14:04:46 -0700, "keith" wrote:

hi to all,
i am still new to the art of woodturning and i am still investing in
high quality tools as i have always been told to buy the best i can
afford. i have been having probloms sharpening my tools as i dont want
to ruin a good tool with a bench grinder as i get the gitters when i
start to sharpen them.even at the best of times i think that they could
be sharper and neater looking. so i started to sharpen them on a good
oil stone this does the job but i dont know if they are as sharp as
they could be or good for the tool. any help on the subject would
apprecated. many thanks and safe turning!!

I use either a grinding wheel or a 1" belt sander.... what you use isn't as
important and HOW you use it..

My wife and I sharpened by hand for years and the tools were sharp but not
consistent... you don't want to get used to a new angle every time you sharpen..

I built a simple jig that clamps to the grinder and has 2 scrap boards with
slits and wing nuts to adjust length and a v-shaped block on the end to hold the
tool handle... most jigs start with simply moving the butt of the handle away
from the grinding surface until the tip is resting on the wheel at the correct
angle..

Darrell Feltmate has designed a shop built jig that will give you the idea..

http://aroundthewoods.com/sharp.shtml




Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

I built a highly ghettoized version of Darrell's method, and it works
good. The main point is to keep the angle of the tool the same
throughout the whole process. It's difficult to get a consistant bevel
by hand sharpening, so unless you want to butcher a set of tools by
practicing, a jig like others have already mentioned can be an
inexpensive investement that will save time overall.

On the other hand, I've seen people hand grind with no problem, but
they've been doing it for years that way.

"keith" wrote in message
oups.com...
hi to all,
i am still new to the art of woodturning and i am still investing in
high quality tools as i have always been told to buy the best i can
afford. i have been having probloms sharpening my tools as i dont want
to ruin a good tool with a bench grinder as i get the gitters when i
start to sharpen them.even at the best of times i think that they could
be sharper and neater looking. so i started to sharpen them on a good
oil stone this does the job but i dont know if they are as sharp as
they could be or good for the tool. any help on the subject would
apprecated. many thanks and safe turning!!

I, a green turner, have problems hand grinding to perfection, and have
been lurking around this thread, preparing to make some sort of jig.
One of the systems shown in the links, which looks pretty simple, rests
the butt end of the tool in a pocket or stop on an adjustable arm, with the
business end of the tool forming the proper angle above center on the wheel.
Am I too chicken, thinking that a slight error in judgement would cause
the tool to "catch" (as in turning) on the wheel, with frightening results?
Old Chief Lynn (the chicken hearted)

Am I too chicken, thinking that a slight error in judgement would cause
the tool to "catch" (as in turning) on the wheel, with frightening results?


Not to worry, Lynn

It wouldn't catch using a jig any more than hand grinding it would.
Since the tool is at a steep angle. I've noticed that the wheel seems
to be slightly pushing the tool away from it. Simply having a good
grip on the tool solves this.

Hi Lynn

Turning tool will not catch if the bevel rides the wood, it won't even
cut.
The tool does not cut the grinding stone, unless jammed between wheel
and rest for instance.
Just pay attention and there won't be any problems.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Have any of you used the Tormek for sharpening turning tools? I have a
chance to buy a used one and was wondering how it was for sharpening these
tools.
thanks


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Lynn

Turning tool will not catch if the bevel rides the wood, it won't even
cut.
The tool does not cut the grinding stone, unless jammed between wheel
and rest for instance.
Just pay attention and there won't be any problems.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

On Fri, 19 May 2006 14:06:47 -0700, "Lynn Coffelt"
wrote:

I, a green turner, have problems hand grinding to perfection, and have
been lurking around this thread, preparing to make some sort of jig.
One of the systems shown in the links, which looks pretty simple, rests
the butt end of the tool in a pocket or stop on an adjustable arm, with the
business end of the tool forming the proper angle above center on the wheel.
Am I too chicken, thinking that a slight error in judgement would cause
the tool to "catch" (as in turning) on the wheel, with frightening results?
Old Chief Lynn (the chicken hearted)

I hand sharpen everything (including twist drill bits), and I've never
had a "catch". The notable problems are getting a feel for the
angles, and learning how much you can grind, and how quickly, to
prevent burning on the tip.

I'm beginning to think I'm on my own with the no-jig philosophy, but
jig or no, I wouldn't worry about the grinder causing a catch like the
lathe can.

I believe that is the Wolverine system although the only place they mention
the name is on the page for the skew grinding attachment. Excellent price,
wish I had seen that before I purchased mine.

"John (NC)" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Keith,

I agree with Fred that for a beginner, like myself, a sharpening jig is
the
best way to go. While I have started with less expensive tools from Harbor
Freight and Penn State Ind., I still did not want to destroy them while
learning to turn and how to correctly sharpen them. I decide to go with
the
sharpening jig from Penn State Ind.,
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lcgrind4.html, because it was less
expensive than the two Fred mentioned and came complete with everything
you
need including 2 bases. It has worked great for me in repeatability of
sharpening my tools quickly and get back to turning. Whether you buy a jig
on make one of your own, it will be a great asset to becoming a better
turning because your tools will be sharp and easier to work with.

John



"Fred Holder" wrote in message
...
Hello Keith,

My best recommendation for any beginning woodturner is to get a
sharpening
jig.
If you can't afford one, then you can make one out of wood. The Jig will
give
you repeatable sharpenings and sharper tools and a smoother bevel. There
are
several good ones on the market. I have the Oneway Wolverine jig on a
Woodcraft
slow speed grinder. I also have a Woodcut Tru-Grind Shaptening System.
The
Woodcut system is slightly less expensive for the basic set. The Oneway
Wolverine system provides bases for each wheel. With the Woodcut you
have
to
purchase a second base slide if you want to be able to use both wheels.
You can
make a quite useable copy of either of these systems out of wood that
will
do
the job nicely.

Fred Holder
http://www.fholder.com

In article .com,
keith
says...

hi to all,
i am still new to the art of woodturning and i am still investing in
high quality tools as i have always been told to buy the best i can
afford. i have been having probloms sharpening my tools as i dont want
to ruin a good tool with a bench grinder as i get the gitters when i
start to sharpen them.even at the best of times i think that they could
be sharper and neater looking. so i started to sharpen them on a good
oil stone this does the job but i dont know if they are as sharp as
they could be or good for the tool. any help on the subject would
apprecated. many thanks and safe turning!!



--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Lynn

Turning tool will not catch if the bevel rides the wood, it won't even
cut.
The tool does not cut the grinding stone, unless jammed between wheel
and rest for instance.
Just pay attention and there won't be any problems.

What Leo means to say is that if your bevel rides the wood you can't _start_
a cut. Once you've started, of course, the bevel lays on where you've been
as you work toward where you're going. Difference being the shaving
removed. Should be touching the bevel where you've been, it's the second
safe point in cutting. The first is the toolrest.

When grinding, just laying the bevel on the wheel with mild pressure can
allow removal of some steel. That's what you want to happen. Whether you
use the rest on the grinder and the bevel of the tool as your first two
steady points or a jig makes no difference. Just don't lift the handle of
the tool with the bevel in contact, because, as you know, that's the same
action you use on the lathe to start the cut, only here rock grinds steel
rather than steel peeling wood.

Which, by the way, is the second reason I grind freehand. It's easy,
because you're really performing the same actions you perform on the lathe,
and it takes some really major changes in gouge contour to make any
significant difference in cutting presentation. That's why there are so
many gouges and so many grinds on the same gouge!

Keith & Lynn,
You have gotten some good advice and I can add little so naturally I'll
add a lot. Some random mouthings about what I think I know about
sharpening turning tools on a grinding _wheel. I leave belts, to others.
All is opinion, believe what you will, take what you want or take
nothing.

There is no mutual exclusion between free hand and jigging. Most of us
use both. Why impose limits when you consider cost, convenience,
consistency, ease of use, portability etc. I take freehand to mean
resting the tool on a platform like on a lathe's toolrest, not 'waving'
a totally unsupported tool.

Being timid, uncertain or hamfisted is not the same as a gentle yet
confident approach whether it be in sharpening or turning or surgery or
most anything else. Whether you jig or freehand, don't jiggle or slam.
"Assume the mantle if you have it not" will get you there sooner than if
you use excessive caution.

When turning or sharpening, your elbows are not chicken wings to be
flapped, keep them in by your sides. To learn a lot from your mistakes,
you have to make a lot of mistakes. Learning to sharpen either by jig or
by freehand requires practice and using up cheap tools is not a waste of
steel. Don't assume a new tool or a tool in use is as sharp as it can
be or needs to be; resharpen it to see and be sure.

Grind the bevel, not the edge and when _tiny sparks start coming over
the top of the entire edge, it _will be sharp with a smooth bevel behind
it. Rotate, twist, or push the bevel up on the wheel and lift the
handle; whatever it takes to keep all of a tool's bevel touching the
wheel and perpendicular to it. Remember that it takes two to tango and
two bevels to make an edge. In sharpening as in dancing the distaff side
is as important as the spear side.

Grind the tool's profile before starting to grind the bevel. To get the
bevel angle desired, view the bevel-stone interface from the side not
the front. You are wielding the same tools so you need the same free
space around the grinder's tool rest as around the lathe's and that
includes a comfortable height and cleared floor. A pretty bevel is like
a pretty face, nice to look at, but what's important is how it's used.
There is so much variation in tools, woods, turning speeds, approach
angles, toolrest positions, etc. that precisely identical bevels are
just one concern among many.

Practice and lots of it will cure the exaggerated fears and problems of
both sharpening and skewing. The 'grinder's sway' like the 'turner's
sway'" with the tool locked against your body is often helpful. Shaping
and dressing a grinding wheel are not the same, but both need to be done
often.

Like a broken old '78 record I repeat, "There are no 'always' or
'nevers' in woodturning and there is no rule book.
Do what works for you and that includes using a Wolverine with a belt
sander.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

All good advice. I'll add two cents more................

Even with a jig, you can make a horrible grind. While the jig will
help you accomplish the correct bevels on all the surfaces, it won't
prevent you from overgrinding any one of those surfaces. I've seen way
too many gouges where the nose of the nose of the tool is over ground
to the point of uselessness.

You should really find either a sample tool or good photo for every
grind you want to accomplish. then, when you grind, the profile will
be repeatable. When I'm learning or trying a new grind, I often grind
a tool with the grind and then shelve it for a sample. I use a second
tool for actual use. This way, I always have a comparison. Once I
learn it, then I let the sample tool go to another use.

If you go to the San Diego Woodturners website (www.sdwt.org) I have a
sharpening handout that you can download for free.

Joe Fleming - San Diego