The Look What I Can Do Trap

James Krenov, a cabinetmaker, determines when a piece is done when
there’s nothing more to remove in order to improve the design. His
pieces are crisp, clean and apparently simple - no trim, no molding, no
decorative overlays, no carved shells, no inlays, no fancy hardware.
Clean and simple. Easy, nothing to it right? Until you look more
closely and think about it a little. There’s no place to hide - a
mistake, an uneven edge, a straight line that isn’t, one of a dozen
dovetails that isn’t quite right. Everything has to be as close to
perfect as possible - or it shows - and detracts significantly from the
piece.

With “between centers” turning, there’s the tempation to fill the space
with details - beads, coves, grooves, ogees and so on. “Look what I can
do!” is the trap so easily caught in. The temptation is really easy to
succumb to. Set up a piece of stock between centers, turn on the lathe,
get things roughed to round and then turn everything in my shapes
repetoire that’ll fit. When I’m done I’ve got - a very decorated
dowel. Interesting, but still just a decorated dowel.

So “eccentric” turning becomes attractive. If I put the centers like
this - and then turn right here. And then if I shift the centers this
way - and turn this spot like this . . . With a bit of trial and error
some interesting/ odd pieces begin appearing. And once again, the “Look
what I can do!” trap springs shut. The results are still just decorated
dowels - asymetric - but just a crooked dowel. Perhaps interesting to
look at - but that’s it.

“I’m going to make something that actually does something. What can I
make with scraps I’ve got lying around? How about a hair stick - you
know, something to replace the pencil or ball point pen women with long
hair use to hold their wound up hair in place? “

Cut a piece of scrap into a 3/8” square, about 10 or 12 inches long,
find the centers and mount it between centers. Rough to round, taper it
almost to
a point and then do some fancy stuff on the last inch or so of the fat
end.
And somewhere about that time “Look what I can do!” kicks in. That last
inch or so ends up with four beads, five “disks” and a little “spire” on
the end.

“Hmmm - the shaft is awfully smooth. This thing will fall out if I
don’t turn some things In the shaft to hold it in place. A bunch of
little coves with a bunch of little beads should do the job. “Look what
I can do - really small!”

SNAP!

All right - how about some spatulas and spoons? A one foot piece of
cherry, 3/4” thick, six inchess wide and a foot long. - perfect for
making TWO 3” wide spatulas. A little bandsawing to get two basic
blanks, find the centers on each end and set it up between centers.
Roughing the handle to round gets a bit tricky at the handle/spatula
interface.

“I’ll just cut a bead where the spatula joins the turned handle.”

SNAP!

The handle is turned to a Feels Good In Hand shape. “I’ll just decorate
the end with a cove and ball.”
(can you hear the release mechanism moving?)

“And maybe I’ll turn in some V-grooves - just to provide some grip.”

(the jaws begin to move - ever so slightly - at first).

“Hell, three long ovals with beads between them would fit in here
nicely.”

SSSNNNNAAAAPPPPPPPP! The Look What I Can Do Trap got me again.

If or when I get a lot better on the lathe I know there’s The Because I
Can Trap waiting for me. Two foot diameter hollow form - with a dime
size opening, a cowboy hat perhaps or maybe a 2,500 piece segmented bowl
- just because I can. Now don’t get me wrong - if any of these things
is a way of getting an idea out of your head and so others can
experience at least some of what you had in mind - more power to you.
But that’s not driven by
“Because I Can”.

This man’s stuff is amazing - and amazingly complicated. But not
for complexity’s sake. Definitely worth checking out - if you haven’t
found his site yet.

http://www.tahoeturner.com/

Have you found other “traps”?

charlie b

Charlie, Really cool read. If Arch isn't jealous I am.

And Malcolm Tibbetts? Well, buddy, you're looking at a lot more than "Look
what I can do" since he has such a talent at creating awesome visual impact
beyond just the technical craftsman. Arch might call him an "artist". I
certainly would. Just go to the thumbnails and look at Tolerance; and Just
Imagine; or in another direction Mobius Sonata; and we can go on.

It could be his "lWICD" is in visualizing, conceiving, and implementing -
but he doesn't seem to SSSNAPPPP. He's a highly respected member of the WoW
family on the internet that Owen Lowe graciously put me onto. Lots of great
postings and info including how-dids with the pictures. Seeing some of these
works is like watching Tiger play golf and then going downstairs to play 18
holes. Sorta keeps things in perspective.

TomNie

"charlie b" wrote in message
...
The Look What I Can Do Trap

James Krenov, a cabinetmaker, determines when a piece is done when
there's nothing more to remove in order to improve the design. His
pieces are crisp, clean and apparently simple - no trim, no molding, no
decorative overlays, no carved shells, no inlays, no fancy hardware.
Clean and simple. Easy, nothing to it right? Until you look more
closely and think about it a little. There's no place to hide - a
mistake, an uneven edge, a straight line that isn't, one of a dozen
dovetails that isn't quite right. Everything has to be as close to
perfect as possible - or it shows - and detracts significantly from the
piece.

With "between centers" turning, there's the tempation to fill the space
with details - beads, coves, grooves, ogees and so on. "Look what I can
do!" is the trap so easily caught in. The temptation is really easy to
succumb to. Set up a piece of stock between centers, turn on the lathe,
get things roughed to round and then turn everything in my shapes
repetoire that'll fit. When I'm done I've got - a very decorated
dowel. Interesting, but still just a decorated dowel.

So "eccentric" turning becomes attractive. If I put the centers like
this - and then turn right here. And then if I shift the centers this
way - and turn this spot like this . . . With a bit of trial and error
some interesting/ odd pieces begin appearing. And once again, the "Look
what I can do!" trap springs shut. The results are still just decorated
dowels - asymetric - but just a crooked dowel. Perhaps interesting to
look at - but that's it.

"I'm going to make something that actually does something. What can I
make with scraps I've got lying around? How about a hair stick - you
know, something to replace the pencil or ball point pen women with long
hair use to hold their wound up hair in place? "

Cut a piece of scrap into a 3/8" square, about 10 or 12 inches long,
find the centers and mount it between centers. Rough to round, taper it
almost to
a point and then do some fancy stuff on the last inch or so of the fat
end.
And somewhere about that time "Look what I can do!" kicks in. That last
inch or so ends up with four beads, five "disks" and a little "spire" on
the end.

"Hmmm - the shaft is awfully smooth. This thing will fall out if I
don't turn some things In the shaft to hold it in place. A bunch of
little coves with a bunch of little beads should do the job. "Look what
I can do - really small!"

SNAP!

All right - how about some spatulas and spoons? A one foot piece of
cherry, 3/4" thick, six inchess wide and a foot long. - perfect for
making TWO 3" wide spatulas. A little bandsawing to get two basic
blanks, find the centers on each end and set it up between centers.
Roughing the handle to round gets a bit tricky at the handle/spatula
interface.

"I'll just cut a bead where the spatula joins the turned handle."

SNAP!

The handle is turned to a Feels Good In Hand shape. "I'll just decorate
the end with a cove and ball."
(can you hear the release mechanism moving?)

"And maybe I'll turn in some V-grooves - just to provide some grip."

(the jaws begin to move - ever so slightly - at first).

"Hell, three long ovals with beads between them would fit in here
nicely."

SSSNNNNAAAAPPPPPPPP! The Look What I Can Do Trap got me again.

If or when I get a lot better on the lathe I know there's The Because I
Can Trap waiting for me. Two foot diameter hollow form - with a dime
size opening, a cowboy hat perhaps or maybe a 2,500 piece segmented bowl
- just because I can. Now don't get me wrong - if any of these things
is a way of getting an idea out of your head and so others can
experience at least some of what you had in mind - more power to you.
But that's not driven by
"Because I Can".

This man's stuff is amazing - and amazingly complicated. But not
for complexity's sake. Definitely worth checking out - if you haven't
found his site yet.

http://www.tahoeturner.com/

Have you found other "traps"?

charlie b

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:11:04 -0800, charlie b
wrote:

The Look What I Can Do Trap
---snip---
Have you found other “traps”?

We're going to have to start calling you Arch Jr.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"charlie b" wrote: His pieces are crisp, clean and apparently simple
(clip) There's no place to hide - a
mistake(clip)shows - and detracts significantly from the piece.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a real insight, that I cannot recall seeing discussed before. I'd
like to add another thought. The complexity of a piece may be a way of
covering mistakes--it may also be a way of distracting the viewer from
seeing that it is a poor design. A simple pen drawing can often say more
than a complexly done oil painting. None of Vivaldi's compositions is as
beautiful to me as "Amazing Grace." Less is more.

"Tom Nie" wrote:

Seeing some of these
works is like watching Tiger play golf and then going downstairs to
play 18 holes. Sorta keeps things in perspective.


If you have enough space 'downstairs' for an 18 hole golf course, we don't
want to hear you whining that you don't have enough workshop space. G

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:


"charlie b" wrote: His pieces are crisp, clean and apparently simple
(clip) There's no place to hide - a
mistake(clip)shows - and detracts significantly from the piece.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a real insight, that I cannot recall seeing discussed before.
I'd like to add another thought. The complexity of a piece may be a
way of covering mistakes--it may also be a way of distracting the
viewer from seeing that it is a poor design. A simple pen drawing can
often say more than a complexly done oil painting. None of Vivaldi's
compositions is as beautiful to me as "Amazing Grace." Less is more.




Much of the adornment on furniture is there precisely to cover joints - ill
fitting or otherwise - and to cover for wood movement. Same thing on a
larger scale with houses and molding.

there is another MAJOR trap specifically for turners - "Thin is Good"
- so if I can turn a transparent 1/6 inch walled 18 inch diameter
vessel that is great. WRONG - it turns out that I can do that, and
that I did it, but the result is only of interest to other turners
-the form is too light, the transparency is not helpful to the shape,
and it is therefore not a success - the same form with a bit more mass
would have been better. So, thin is a sign that you have mastered a
particular technical skill, it is not a sign of a good design.


my 2 cents

bill








On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:11:04 -0800, charlie b
wrote:

The Look What I Can Do Trap

James Krenov, a cabinetmaker, determines when a piece is done when
there’s nothing more to remove in order to improve the design. His
pieces are crisp, clean and apparently simple - no trim, no molding, no
decorative overlays, no carved shells, no inlays, no fancy hardware.
Clean and simple. Easy, nothing to it right? Until you look more
closely and think about it a little. There’s no place to hide - a
mistake, an uneven edge, a straight line that isn’t, one of a dozen
dovetails that isn’t quite right. Everything has to be as close to
perfect as possible - or it shows - and detracts significantly from the
piece.

SNIP----------------


Have you found other “traps”?

charlie b
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

Leo Lichtman wrote:

This is a real insight, that I cannot recall seeing discussed before.

It's something that comes up in discussions of design over in
rec.woodworking, tucked away between long threads on Which
Table Saw To Buy and How Do You ...

James Krenov and George Nakashima are the poster boys
for this approach to design. Sam Maloof's "you just want
to run your hand over every inch of this thing" rocking
chairs is of the same No Place To Hide school

I'd
like to add another thought. The complexity of a piece may be a way of
covering mistakes--

but it can also be used to minimize or eliminate the visual
distraction of a pin knot , sap pocket or some other flaw
in the wood.

it may also be a way of distracting the viewer from
seeing that it is a poor design.

Or worse yet, take a promising design and vear off into
Look What I Can Do.

A simple pen drawing can often say more
than a complexly done oil painting.

I think oriental brush painting, sumie for example,
illustrates this nicely. Most of what the viewer
sees isn't provided by the artist, but merely implied.
Most of what you see isn't there - but in here (tapping
his temple). Haiku does the same thing - but with
words.

None of Vivaldi's compositions is as
beautiful to me as "Amazing Grace." Less is more.

Amen.
================================

and Lobby Dosser responded

Much of the adornment on furniture is there precisely to cover joints - ill
fitting or otherwise - and to cover for wood movement.

Chinese furniture makers seemed to have gotten around those
issues - without all the molding and froo-froo that appears in
"western" furniture. BUT - that requires some tricky to make
joints that don't lend themselves to The Industrial Revolution
approach to things.

Same thing on a
larger scale with houses and molding.

Again - it ain't necessary. The Japanese temple builders
found ways to do things without molding and trim. If they
include decorative elements they do so for decroative purposes
only - not to hide anything.

======================================

Tom Nie wrote:

snip

And Malcolm Tibbetts? Well, buddy, you're looking at a lot more than "Look
what I can do" since he has such a talent at creating awesome visual impact
beyond just the technical craftsman. Arch might call him an "artist". I
certainly would. Just go to the thumbnails and look at Tolerance; and Just
Imagine; or in another direction Mobius Sonata; and we can go on.

To clarify - Mr. Tibbetts'is the antithesis of Look What I Can Do. He
does
what he does because that's what it takes to convey what's in his head
-
and apparently - in his heart. His ability to be able to see his
vision
with enough clarity to allow it to become a reality, with all the
things
that must be done to do so, is astounding. And with all of that, it
doesn't
seem to be an ego driven thing - not a Look At What I Can Do thing,
but
rather a This Is What I See and Now You Can Too.

There are people who can transcend normal human experiences. Some,
musicians for example, can take anyone with them for the ride Yo Yo
Ma does it all the time. Mr. Tibbett does it with wood - and ideas.
Just Imagine.

==============================

and Bill N added

there is another MAJOR trap specifically for turners - "Thin is Good"
- so if I can turn a transparent 1/6 inch walled 18 inch diameter
vessel that is great. WRONG - it turns out that I can do that, and
that I did it, but the result is only of interest to other turners
-the form is too light, the transparency is not helpful to the shape,
and it is therefore not a success - the same form with a bit more mass
would have been better. So, thin is a sign that you have mastered a
particular technical skill, it is not a sign of a good design.

I think this one falls under The Because I Can.Trap - when
technique over rides everything else. Turning thin walls
serves a purpose - to minimize the amount of wood expansion
and contraction. Beyond some functional minimum, thinner
can work against the piece.

my 2 cents

You're a master of the understatement

bill

========================================

Tom Nie wrote:

snip

And Malcolm Tibbetts? Well, buddy, you're looking at a lot more than "Look
what I can do" since he has such a talent at creating awesome visual impact
beyond just the technical craftsman. Arch might call him an "artist". I
certainly would. Just go to the thumbnails and look at Tolerance; and Just
Imagine; or in another direction Mobius Sonata; and we can go on.

To clarify - Mr. Tibbetts'is the antithesis of Look What I Can Do. He
does
what he does because that's what it takes to convey what's in his head
-
and apparently - in his heart. His ability to be able to see his
vision
with enough clarity to allow it to become a reality, with all the
things
that must be done to do so, is astounding. And with all of that, it
doesn't
seem to be an ego driven thing - not a Look At What I Can Do thing,
but
rather a This Is What I See and Now You Can Too.

There are people who can transcend normal human experiences. Some,
musicians for example, can take anyone with them for the ride Yo Yo
Ma does it all the time. Mr. Tibbett does it with wood - and ideas.
Just Imagine.

==================================

Now what about "textures" and spirals, natural edges and
perfect balls?

charlie b

Bill,
To affirm from personal observation.
My first bowl in turning school - 1/8" and perfectly symetrical. So proud of
how evenly finished, etc. etc.
Another bowl, bulky and with some surface uneveness, done in a simple demo.
I have to explain what's so great about bowl one and listen to unsolicited
raves on bowl two.

TomNie

"William B Noble (don't reply to this address)" wrote
in message ...
there is another MAJOR trap specifically for turners - "Thin is Good"
- so if I can turn a transparent 1/6 inch walled 18 inch diameter
vessel that is great. WRONG - it turns out that I can do that, and
that I did it, but the result is only of interest to other turners
-the form is too light, the transparency is not helpful to the shape,
and it is therefore not a success - the same form with a bit more mass
would have been better. So, thin is a sign that you have mastered a
particular technical skill, it is not a sign of a good design.


my 2 cents

bill








On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:11:04 -0800, charlie b
wrote:

The Look What I Can Do Trap

James Krenov, a cabinetmaker, determines when a piece is done when
there's nothing more to remove in order to improve the design. His
pieces are crisp, clean and apparently simple - no trim, no molding, no
decorative overlays, no carved shells, no inlays, no fancy hardware.
Clean and simple. Easy, nothing to it right? Until you look more
closely and think about it a little. There's no place to hide - a
mistake, an uneven edge, a straight line that isn't, one of a dozen
dovetails that isn't quite right. Everything has to be as close to
perfect as possible - or it shows - and detracts significantly from the
piece.

SNIP----------------


Have you found other "traps"?

charlie b
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

Highly figured wood offers a similar trap. The figure needs to be
appropriate for the design of the piece. How you orient the grain, where
you position natural features such as knots or bark inclusions, etc., can
be the difference between 'ho hum' and 'wow!' I have seen way too many
basically ugly pieces turned from gorgeous wood. The guy who can turn a
gorgeous piece from plain wood has really done something, in my opinion.
I like pretty wood as much as anyone, but it doesn't make up for poor
design or poor execution.

-mike paulson, fort collins, co


This is a real insight, that I cannot recall seeing discussed before.
I'd like to add another thought. The complexity of a piece may be a
way of covering mistakes--it may also be a way of distracting the
viewer from seeing that it is a poor design. A simple pen drawing can
often say more than a complexly done oil painting. None of Vivaldi's
compositions is as beautiful to me as "Amazing Grace." Less is more.

charlie b wrote:


I think oriental brush painting, sumie for example,
illustrates this nicely. Most of what the viewer
sees isn't provided by the artist, but merely implied.
Most of what you see isn't there - but in here (tapping
his temple). Haiku does the same thing - but with
words.



But the artist *is* providing it. And 'it' is the empty spaces.