Hello All,

I'm pretty new to woodturning, and so far have always used pre-dried wood.
I moved into a lakeside community last spring, so this summer I've started
to collect logs from people in the development that I find cutting down
trees. Although I stored the logs in my basement (where I thought they
would dry out slow enough not to crack, all of the logs have stress cracks
on the ends. The average size is 8 - 12" in diameter and approx 24" long.

Is it possible to make a homebrew preservative to apply to the ends of my
logs? I have no local place to purchase it, and to purchase a gallon at an
online store and have it shipped, I would be concerned about it arriving in
one piece. Plus the additional cost of the shipping. ($7.00 at Woodcraft
for a gallon jug). I've never used it before, but assume that a gallon
wouldn't go far either.

Would melting old candles and apply the wax to the ends do the same job?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, how long will it take for the logs to get dry enough to turn? (dry -
as in not green wood that would not warp considerably after turning like
green turned bowls do). My basement is fairly dry with a constant
temperature of around 65 degrees. I say fairly dry-- I have a cement floor
in the basement with a (submerged) sump pump but also run a dehumidifier (I
have my workshop down there).
--
Thanks...JEB

Stop by and visit
JEB's (fishing) Website
at www.jebswebsite.com

Jeb, I use Anchorseal and buy it direct from them. Before I used it I
would get parifin wax, melt it and paint it on the ends of logs. That
worked fairly well. If you are turning bowls go ahead and turn the
green wood, then let them dry. There are all kinds of methods of
drying the bowls. You can do a search for bowl drying. I am using the
denatured alcohol method by Dave Smith with success. I have also used
Anchorseal to coat bowls made from green wood. I put them away to dry
for a few months.

Jeb,

I've been scavenging wood too, and I used some Anchorseal and it is great
stuff. But I ran out, and I used some leftover exterior Latex paint.
(Latex forms a sort of a skin when it dries) It seems to work pretty well
too.

Things I have learned the hard way.

The ends are going to crack, no matter what. Just cut them away when you
are ready to turn. If you cut the log in half lengthwise through the pith,
it will check less. If you chainsaw it, you have a flat surface you can
screw to a face plate. If you split it, like I did some, you have a non
flat surface that you have to do a lot of planing on before you can mount
it.

Don't wait for it to get dry before turning it. Turning wet wood is a
treat. (I haven't had any that was so green it splattered, but on some of
it I the shavings felt damp. I have some 12 in logs that were cut 6 years
ago, and they STILL are damp. Not as damp as the ones I cut last year, tho.

I rough turn the bowl green, and hollow it out. I leave the wall thickness
about 10% of the diameter. Then I just put it on the shelf. No wrap, no
alcohol, just shelf it. I bought a food scale, and I weigh it about once a
week. When I have two weeks with no weight loss, I figure it is ready to
turn. It has warped enuf so that you have to redo the outside and the
inside again.

I still end up with some checks (cracks). I figure I'm turning for
practice, not beauty. If the crack makes the bowl unsound, I use superglue
to heal it. If it is just an appearance thing, I fill it by slurry sanding,
and that's as good as it gets.

I've used this system on hard maple, butternut, honey locust and ash, and
I'm pretty happy with it.

Walt C



"JEB" wrote in message
...
Hello All,

I'm pretty new to woodturning, and so far have always used pre-dried wood.
I moved into a lakeside community last spring, so this summer I've started
to collect logs from people in the development that I find cutting down
trees. Although I stored the logs in my basement (where I thought they
would dry out slow enough not to crack, all of the logs have stress cracks
on the ends. The average size is 8 - 12" in diameter and approx 24" long.

Is it possible to make a homebrew preservative to apply to the ends of my
logs? I have no local place to purchase it, and to purchase a gallon at
an
online store and have it shipped, I would be concerned about it arriving
in
one piece. Plus the additional cost of the shipping. ($7.00 at Woodcraft
for a gallon jug). I've never used it before, but assume that a gallon
wouldn't go far either.

Would melting old candles and apply the wax to the ends do the same job?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, how long will it take for the logs to get dry enough to turn?
(dry -
as in not green wood that would not warp considerably after turning like
green turned bowls do). My basement is fairly dry with a constant
temperature of around 65 degrees. I say fairly dry-- I have a cement
floor
in the basement with a (submerged) sump pump but also run a dehumidifier
(I
have my workshop down there).
--
Thanks...JEB

Stop by and visit
JEB's (fishing) Website
at www.jebswebsite.com

In article ,
"JEB" wrote:

Would melting old candles and apply the wax to the ends do the same job?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I use both melted wax and the liquid, wax-emulsion sealer (Anchorseal,
"endgrain sealer", etc.) for slowing the drying of wood.

For the melted wax, I use a shallow electric kitchen fryer (about 12"
sq. x 3" deep), obtained from the local thrift store for a couple bucks
to melt down candle odds and ends. My wife will buy old taper and pillar
candles at yard sales for a dollar or two and I add these as my wax gets
used up. (BTW, there's no need to peel labels or worry about the wick as
the wax certainly won't stay clean from the bark and such falling into
it anyway.) This method is used for all wood that can be easily handled
while dipping the ends into the pool of hot wax - and is small enough to
fit the fryer. I tried brushing on the melted wax, but it cooled so
quickly on the wet wood that the wax just chipped off in sheets. When
the wood is dipped, I hold it in the wax for a couple, three, four
seconds and then pull it out and allow the excess to drip off. After
about 10 minutes of cooling time I dip a second time but just a quick in
and out to add a second layer. This is done only to the endgrain and
about an inch up the sides. If you encapsulate the wood in wax there
will be no drying whatsoever - which could be what you're after if it's
a highly reactive wood to drying stresses. (In North America, many fruit
trees have this characteristic.)

The wax-emulsion gets used when the wood is too large to dip into the
melted wax container. I generally brush the emulsion on with a cheapo
80-cent utility brush. Two coats work better for longer term storage and
you'll be surprised at just how far a gallon of the stuff can go.
Overall, I've found the hot wax dip to be superior to the brushed
emulsion. That could be due to the superior coating in every nook and
cranny and wax thickness the dip process yields.

Keep in mind that if the wood is left in log form it's practically
inevitable that it'll crack in time - it's just the way the drying
forces work on the wood and it's structure. Also, keep the bark on if
you want to retain as much moisture in the wood as possible. However, if
you check on your stash and see bugs making a condominium out there,
peel it off. If you store your wood outdoors, cover loosely with a
waterproof tarp or some such covering. If you store inside, keep in a
cool location *without* a lot of air movement; the more humid the better.

Also, how long will it take for the logs to get dry enough to turn? (dry -
as in not green wood that would not warp considerably after turning like
green turned bowls do). My basement is fairly dry with a constant
temperature of around 65 degrees. I say fairly dry-- I have a cement floor
in the basement with a (submerged) sump pump but also run a dehumidifier (I
have my workshop down there).

Dry enough to turn? No such thing. I look at it a different way: is the
wood too dry to have an enjoyable turning experience? Dress in your
worst clothes, don your face shield and begin turning immediately. The
wood is a joy to work when it's wet - much easier cutting and
substantially less dulling on the tool edges. Be forewarned though - the
spinning wood will spray a stripe of water on you, the lathe, back wall
and the ceiling - some folks hang shower curtains to form a little
"room" to contain the wet shavings and flung water. Read up on turning
green wood as you may need to turn it twice before you end up with what
you're after.

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners,
Cascade Woodturners,
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Tips fer Turnin': Pour your end-grain sealer into a clean, wide-mouth
clothes detergent bottle. The lid makes a handy dipping container for
your brush and the leftovers will drain back into the bottle when you
recap the jug.

Is it possible to make a homebrew preservative to apply to the ends of my
logs? I have no local place to purchase it, and to purchase a gallon

PVA glue will do the trick. It's not the best, but certainly better than
nothing...

Also, how long will it take for the logs to get dry enough to turn?
(dry - as in not green wood that would not warp considerably after
turning like green turned bowls do). My basement is fairly dry with a

Rule of thumb: 1 year for every 1" dia. + 1 year more. This'll vary but is
a fairly reliable means of guesstimating.

--
- Andy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where is human nature so weak as in the toolstore?

In article ,
Owen Lowe wrote:


Dry enough to turn? No such thing. I look at it a different way: is the
wood too dry to have an enjoyable turning experience? Dress in your
worst clothes, don your face shield and begin turning immediately. The
wood is a joy to work when it's wet - much easier cutting and
substantially less dulling on the tool edges. Be forewarned though - the
spinning wood will spray a stripe of water on you, the lathe, back wall
and the ceiling - some folks hang shower curtains to form a little
"room" to contain the wet shavings and flung water. Read up on turning
green wood as you may need to turn it twice before you end up with what
you're after.

Qwen,
thanks for a nice comprehensive post on preparation for drying. Now for
the big question. How do you stack the logs? Lay them on their sides a
la firewood or stand them on end? I read somewhere, maybe in this group,
that logs stood on end do not crack as much and dry faster. Anyone?

--
Remove no & spam to email

meet me at:
http://peterhyde.bravehost.com/

"Peter Hyde" wrote in message
...
Now for
the big question. How do you stack the logs? Lay them on their sides a
la firewood or stand them on end? I read somewhere, maybe in this group,
that logs stood on end do not crack as much and dry faster. Anyone?

Logs crack because the flow of moisture from the interior to the surface is
inadequate to keep it near the FSP (fiber saturation point) of ~30%. Since
moisture is lost from endgrain ten times faster than from face grain, it is
the ends which show first damage. If you watch such things, you'll find
that end checks are self-limiting. The sheltered area in the checks and the
dry area outside which cuts off capillary draw ultimately combine to
maintain the interior at a favorable moisture content.

Does it make a difference how logs are kept? Of course. Loss from two
surfaces is more rapid than loss from one. The sideways stack loses
moisture faster. The protected surface of a log on end suffers less from
end checks than the exposed surface, but seems more prone to radial checks,
which are what really destroys a piece for turning.

Roughing makes all things easier. End grain exposure is immense, so the
blank dries rapidly, the thinner walls allow for continuous capillary draw,
diminishing end check formation, while the geometry of a bowl with no long
continuous cross-sections, minimizes overall distortion. It's the way to
go. Easier to cut green than cured wood, and far easier to get a bowl to
survive than a chunk of wood.

Periodically, I like to remind folks of the resource at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm , where
chapter three should be required reading for woodturners.

Oh yes, if you have wax, a low-sudsing laundry detergent and a big blender,
you could make your own emulsion to coat endgrain.

Another take on this drying biz:

From time to time I clean out the shop and find left over cans of
polyurethane, shellac, laquer, etc. that are not good enough to use on
a project, or that have expired past their shelf life.
I mix all these together with some mineral spirits if needed, and have
a nice mix of.... stuff.

With an old brush, I slather this stuff on my green finds. Since it is
thinner than the wax emulsions, it has some penetration and can dry
rapidly. If that is the case I slather on another coat. You would be
surprised how well this stuff works. I started doing this with quart
of plain, left over poly that a buddy of mine gave me and have since
changed it to a shelf cleaning project throwing everything that mixes
or doesn't together so I will have some ready when I get some wood.

Like Owen, I have found that the best way is to only do about an inch
or so up the ends. I found this out the hard way when I bought a 2X2
stick of Cocobolo a few years ago at a woodworking show. His deal was
that his wood was perfectly protected since it was dipped in a vat of
wax. Great, right?

I figured that the wood I was looking at was in the jungle six or so
months ago, so it had six months of drying, then another 6 months until
I got around to turning Christmas ornaments. So it was "off the tree"
for a year, drying with the dealer and in my protected garage.

Every ornament I turned from that piece cracked after being out in the
air for about 10 days. My own experiments revealed that it was the
drying/preservation technique, not the wood as I was able to duplicate
the results.

So get the ends, sticker it up to get some good air flow, and keep your
cut and treated wood pile out of direct sunlight after you have
finished. To cut the immediate air flow down and help with the face
checking, I also put a tarp over the first couple of courses, but leave
room for ventilation around the bottom.

I have mine set up on treated sills as direct contact with the ground
in South Texas means instant termites and borers. If I know I will
not get to this pile for a few months, at this time I also spray
insecticide on the wood so it won't be too attractive to the wood
workers of the insect world.

Robert

Hi Jeb,
Doesn't answer your question, but since wood is plentiful here, I can be
both
lazy and thrifty by staying out of Mother Nature's way in her efforts to
help me.

I often just wait for short logs to split and dry or spalt. Many will
have a single very deep crack straight along the length of a short log
that often can be easily wedged into fairly equal halves. The big crack
seems to have 'used up' the cracking forces and the two splits remain
stable. The two splits can be further rived for spindles (or firewood)
or left intact for cross grain work. After cleaning up the ends by
cutting to size the rough surfaces are easily prepared for holding with
spur
centers or pin or single screw chucks.

For Norfolk Island Pine I remove the limb stubs and bark with a hatchet,
then rough to cylinders. Then slather any 50-50 liquid dish detergent
liberally over the entire roughed blank. The clean blanks dry and remain
stable and are easily stored. Might not work for other timbers or other
turners or in other galaxies, but it works for me.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch wrote:
slather any 50-50 liquid dish detergent
liberally over the entire roughed blank. The clean blanks dry and remain
stable and are easily stored.

Arch:

Are you saying that you just put the LDD on the blank and let it dry?
No dipping, re-coating, etc? Do you store your blanks inside your
shop/garage/shed or do you leave them outside in the elements? Do the
boring critters bother your wood with the soap on it?

Always interested in something new...

Robert

Robert, I don't dip or recoat the blanks with LDD, just store them in an
open floored shed. No critters in the stored blanks, but lots of round
worms beneath the bark when it is removed. My field lizards sure enjoy
them. Remember, I'm referring to whole NIP logs only, mostly turned end
grain with no problems of knots fallig out.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Thanks Arch.

Seems like if it worked well on NIP, then it should work well on other
softer woods. And at the price of that stuff, I could literally put it
in a 5 gal bucket and just dunk it and put it on the saw horse to dry.

I will try that out on my next pieces of super green ash coming my way.
It would be a lot less messy and safer than my "witches brew" of odds
and ends.

Robert