"TEK" wrote in message

Sometimes Raffan works so fast in his tapes it is hard to pick up what
he is doing! You have to watch him like a hawk and then back up the tape
and watch him again. Alan Lacer is a little easier to follow. If you can
get his Tape or DVD, "The Skew Chisel" I think you will find it easier
to follow. Cut some Pine or Fir 2x4's up unto 2x2's and practice on
them. The softwoods show tearout from poor technique, are cheap, and
good to practice on. Mike Darlow's 2 DVD set "Practice of Woodturning"
is a good resource too. It's $69.95 from Packard Tools, but maybe your
library or woodturning club as a copy. Luckily the Woodtuning club I
belong to has one in the library. There is over 7 hours of viewing in
those 2 DVD's. You only need to hone the burr off of the skew. Don't
worry about the flats. I have the Veritas Skew grinding jig and find it
helpful in getting a consistent bevel. That jig makes an edge with a
curve. If you prefer the straight grind do not get the jig. I also
prefer to use my large skew (1 1/8" P&N) whenever possible. I think
it's easier to control than the small one (1/2" Crown). I use the small
one where I can't get the big one in. The big one was intimidating when
I first started using it and now it's my favorite.
Tom

Lots of good suggestions. Thanks, Tom.

I have a Wolverine system, but without the skew jig. I find I'm able to
grind them quite well on the flat plate included with the system. Today I
put a slight radius on my larger (1") skew, and I've not had quite the
number of catches I had earlier, but haven't eliminated them entirely. I'll
try the radius for a while and if I gain some skill I may straighten it out
again. Skews produce such a nice surface--I wish they were simpler to
learn.

I never thought of ripping 2x4s--definitely will give that a try. And I
ordered Alan Lacer's DVD today.

Jeff

"Jeff" wrote in message
nk.net...
I've suspected that ash is probably not the best wood on which to learn
the skew. But I have so darned much of it, and I also concluded that if I
could master the skew on dry ash I could use it on almost anything.
Faulty reasoning, probably. Sadly I chose to forego taking some branches
from my neighbor's apple tree, which he just cut down last week.


Steel wins the battle against wood every time, even ash. I wouldn't look
any farther than the woodpile for practice material. After all, if it's
what you have in abundance - and a fine display wood to boot - you're going
to be turning things out of it anyway.

“Steel wins the battle against wood every time, even ash. I wouldn't look
any farther than the woodpile for practice material. After all, if it's
what you have in abundance - and a fine display wood to boot - you're going
to be turning things out of it anyway.”[/quote]
I agree with George there is nothing wrong with turning Ash for practice and it does make nice finished pieces. The advantage of turning the softwood 2 x 2’s is it will cut faster because it is not as hard and it will show tear out from dull tools or poor technique. You should probably practice on both. I find that I feel what the tool is doing as much as I see what the tool is doing. There is a lot of difference in the feel of a dense wood compared to a soft wood. If you get another chance at some apple take it. It turns very nicely, but can be a bit of trouble to dry without cracking. I like the color and grain of apple also.
Tom

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 04:29:59 GMT, "Jeff" wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message

Jeff... I can't tell you about technique, but I have a lot of experience
with
impatience...

It's taken me years to learn to do 2 things:

When it stops being fun, go do something else for an hour or so.. your
subconscious will be working on it and will bring you back to the project
with a
better mind set..

When I was "younger", I was always in a hurry to finish things.. if a step
involved waiting for something, I'd skip it..
Now, when I'm up against something like glue setting or a finish drying, I
go
play on the computer, mow the lawn, beat the grand kids, whatever.. just
to
force myself to wait... as a reformed control freak, it's been an uphill
battle.. lol

I really haven't learned patience as much as the ability to recognize my
impatience and deal with it.. group hugs help, too.. *g*

My impatience is innate, and I, too, struggle with it. Skew chisels have
become my nemesis. They leave such a lovely surface when used correctly,
and catch all too frequently. I've even put a slight radius on my larger
skew--I'll try that for a while and see if it eliminates some of the
catches. If not I'll straighten it out again.

It's difficult to see DVDs of pro turners using skews with the same skill I
possess with a fork when feeding my face and not get impatient. I too
recognize my impatience while being generally unable to eliminate it.
(sigh)

Jeff

my kids got discouraged when after a couple of sessions on the lathe, they
couldn't do the stuff that I do.. (and I'm far, far from an expert)

I usually solved patience problems with them with something like "did you learn
to hit a pitched baseball on your first day?"..
It put things in prospective for them and might explain the difference in you
skill/experience with a fork vs. a skew.. *g*

If all else fails, thinking that billions of people around the world don't know
that I put a ding in a chunk of wood, and they wouldn't give a **** if they did
know..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"TEK" wrote in message
...

"Steel wins the battle against wood every time, even ash. I wouldn't
look
any farther than the woodpile for practice material. After all, if
it's
what you have in abundance - and a fine display wood to boot - you're
going
to be turning things out of it anyway."


I agree with George there is nothing wrong with turning Ash for practice
and it does make nice finished pieces. The advantage of turning the
softwood 2 x 2's is it will cut faster because it is not as hard and it
will show tear out from dull tools or poor technique. You should probably
practice on both. I find that I feel what the tool is doing as much as I
see what the tool is doing. There is a lot of difference in the feel of a
dense wood compared to a soft wood. If you get another chance at some
apple take it. It turns very nicely, but can be a bit of trouble to dry
without cracking. I like the color and grain of apple also.
Tom

I have a pile of apple sections from the same neighbor's tree, but they've
all dried and have cracked beyond use for faceplate work, even end-coated
with Anchorseal. However they should be okay for spindle work/practice.

Your comment about feeling the tool as opposed to seeing is very true, I've
discovered, especially on harder woods such as the dry ash. In fact I'd
have to conclude that I can tell more about how the tool is cutting by its
sound and feel than visually. I believe I'm getting my tool very sharp and
correctly ground, but I still find the difference between a catch and
properly keeping the bevel rubbing and the skew cutting is a very small
angle indeed. Learning to maintain that angle is the hard part.

Jeff

"mac davis" wrote in message

my kids got discouraged when after a couple of sessions on the lathe, they
couldn't do the stuff that I do.. (and I'm far, far from an expert)

I usually solved patience problems with them with something like "did you
learn
to hit a pitched baseball on your first day?"..
It put things in prospective for them and might explain the difference in
you
skill/experience with a fork vs. a skew.. *g*

If all else fails, thinking that billions of people around the world don't
know
that I put a ding in a chunk of wood, and they wouldn't give a **** if
they did
know..

I did some turning in high school--lemme see, that was about-oh, never
mind--and it didn't seem too difficult at the time. Then again I don't
recall using a skew chisel at any time--just gouges, scrapers, and parting
tools. But I assumed relearning to turn would be a snap. I was very wrong.
It's not nearly as simple as Raffan or Ellsworth make it appear. But I am
learning and will continue to persevere with the skew. I'll get it, but I
was hoping the learning curve with that tool would be steeper than it's
turning out to be. i.e.--impatience.

Your last sentence says it all: in the macrocosmic scheme of things, my
ability to use a skew is rather like tachyons departing the nucleus of a
single atom--no one is going to notice. Except me.

Jeff

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:26:59 +0100, TEK wrote:
snip
I find that I feel what the tool is doing as much as I see what the tool is doing.
There is a lot of difference in the feel of a dense wood compared to a soft wood.

Tom.. do you also go by the sound?

I didn't realize that I get a lot of "feedback" from the sound of the lathe rpm,
the cutting edge on the wood, etc., until the other night when I was roughing a
bowl and my wife turned on a finish sander and shop vac...
Everything just "felt" different.. I really hadn't expected noise to make a
difference..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:36:58 GMT, "Jeff" wrote:

I have a pile of apple sections from the same neighbor's tree, but they've
all dried and have cracked beyond use for faceplate work, even end-coated
with Anchorseal. However they should be okay for spindle work/practice.

Your comment about feeling the tool as opposed to seeing is very true, I've
discovered, especially on harder woods such as the dry ash. In fact I'd
have to conclude that I can tell more about how the tool is cutting by its
sound and feel than visually. I believe I'm getting my tool very sharp and
correctly ground, but I still find the difference between a catch and
properly keeping the bevel rubbing and the skew cutting is a very small
angle indeed. Learning to maintain that angle is the hard part.

Yep, the skew is tricky. I left mine laying in the case for months on
end, because I was tired of them wrecking stuff, until I finally got
tired of leaving them alone, and just spent about 4 hours turning big
hunks of wood down to the size of toothpicks with those darn things,
and now it's like second nature. It's hard to master, and the real
benefit is that it cuts down on sanding. May or may not be worth it,
in the long run. I've found that I get a finish almost as good as the
skews by using a 1/4" spindle gouge with swept-back wings.

I know one other turner in the non-usenet world, and he won't touch a
skew with a 30' pole. He's been production-turning bowls,
bottle-stoppers and chalices and never saw the need for them. And
I'll admit- even after sort of mastering the things, I still end up
just using a good sharp gouge. YMMV!

Hi Mac

Better develop that feeling feedback thing, before the hearing catches
up with the seeing, etc. damhik.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote:

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:26:59 +0100, TEK wrote:
snip

I find that I feel what the tool is doing as much as I see what the tool is doing.
There is a lot of difference in the feel of a dense wood compared to a soft wood.


Tom.. do you also go by the sound?

I didn't realize that I get a lot of "feedback" from the sound of the lathe rpm,
the cutting edge on the wood, etc., until the other night when I was roughing a
bowl and my wife turned on a finish sander and shop vac...
Everything just "felt" different.. I really hadn't expected noise to make a
difference..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:36:58 GMT, "Jeff" wrote:

I have a pile of apple sections from the same neighbor's tree, but they've
all dried and have cracked beyond use for faceplate work, even end-coated
with Anchorseal. However they should be okay for spindle work/practice.

Your comment about feeling the tool as opposed to seeing is very true,
I've
discovered, especially on harder woods such as the dry ash. In fact I'd
have to conclude that I can tell more about how the tool is cutting by its
sound and feel than visually. I believe I'm getting my tool very sharp
and
correctly ground, but I still find the difference between a catch and
properly keeping the bevel rubbing and the skew cutting is a very small
angle indeed. Learning to maintain that angle is the hard part.

Yep, the skew is tricky. I left mine laying in the case for months on
end, because I was tired of them wrecking stuff, until I finally got
tired of leaving them alone, and just spent about 4 hours turning big
hunks of wood down to the size of toothpicks with those darn things,
and now it's like second nature. It's hard to master, and the real
benefit is that it cuts down on sanding. May or may not be worth it,
in the long run. I've found that I get a finish almost as good as the
skews by using a 1/4" spindle gouge with swept-back wings.

I know one other turner in the non-usenet world, and he won't touch a
skew with a 30' pole. He's been production-turning bowls,
bottle-stoppers and chalices and never saw the need for them. And
I'll admit- even after sort of mastering the things, I still end up
just using a good sharp gouge. YMMV!

I don't really have any spindle gouges, save for a very small detail gouge
with which I've had no success either. But I'll have to agree that a skew
leaves a beautiful surface--just before it catches and ruins the piece. I
hate to sound cynical, but even if I master the skew, I'll probably not use
it much, as I tend more toward face work. Still, the skill would be a nice
one to have. I've certainly created some attractive firewood lately.

Jeff

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 02:13:40 -0400, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:

Hi Mac

Better develop that feeling feedback thing, before the hearing catches
up with the seeing, etc. damhik.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

what?? speak up, Leo..


mac davis wrote:

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:26:59 +0100, TEK wrote:
snip

I find that I feel what the tool is doing as much as I see what the tool is doing.
There is a lot of difference in the feel of a dense wood compared to a soft wood.


Tom.. do you also go by the sound?

I didn't realize that I get a lot of "feedback" from the sound of the lathe rpm,
the cutting edge on the wood, etc., until the other night when I was roughing a
bowl and my wife turned on a finish sander and shop vac...
Everything just "felt" different.. I really hadn't expected noise to make a
difference..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing