Excellent work doesn't arise 'de nouveau'.
Fine turnings result from hard work and attention to detail. At least I
think that's true. Question: where is it written that to advance, we
must always do the best we can? Answer: Everywhere.

Almost every instructional demo, article or posting admonishes us to
turn at our max and strive for even higher, no exceptions. It appears
that anything less is anathema and the attitude of a flawed woodturner.

Reasonably good but less than best may be unacceptable, even for
production work, but this isn't about turning 50 fine bannisters or a
superior one-off object. It's about sloppy turning, happy and
unfettered. Is it wrong to just have fun with no need to eternally reach
for unattainable perfection?

Forget art vs craft, grind vs hone, peel vs punch, and all that;
carefree vs compulsive is the debate du jour. If there are no rules, no
always, no nevers and no turning police, am I a heretic for not trying
for my best at the lathe every time?

Is this a fault of one carefree underachiever or are there other
part-time slobs out there? If so, can the compulsive overachievers ever
understand us? Moreover, who cares?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Excellent work doesn't arise 'de nouveau'.
Fine turnings result from hard work and attention to detail. At least I
think that's true. Question: where is it written that to advance, we
must always do the best we can? Answer: Everywhere.

Almost every instructional demo, article or posting admonishes us to
turn at our max and strive for even higher, no exceptions. It appears
that anything less is anathema and the attitude of a flawed woodturner.

Reasonably good but less than best may be unacceptable, even for
production work, but this isn't about turning 50 fine bannisters or a
superior one-off object. It's about sloppy turning, happy and
unfettered. Is it wrong to just have fun with no need to eternally reach
for unattainable perfection?

Forget art vs craft, grind vs hone, peel vs punch, and all that;
carefree vs compulsive is the debate du jour. If there are no rules, no
always, no nevers and no turning police, am I a heretic for not trying
for my best at the lathe every time?

Is this a fault of one carefree underachiever or are there other
part-time slobs out there? If so, can the compulsive overachievers ever
understand us? Moreover, who cares?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter

===== Arch, ain'tcha heard we gotta practice diversity in everything, so
there must be room for us compulsive underachievers! It's the law, and don't
forget to buckle up! *G*

Leif

"Arch" (clip) can the compulsive overachievers ever
understand us? (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your point is well taken, Arch. I think the question is, "Do we
underachievers understand ourselves?" I wonder how many aspiring turners
join the clubs, subscribe to the magazines, attend the conferences, where
they see the outstanding work of the most accomplished turners, and then
eventually get discouraged and drop out.

Arch, I believe your message is, "It's okay to turn at whatever level suits
you, without feeling miserable or guilty because your work is not gallery
quality."

Hi Arch

VERY SHORT ANSWER, I HOPE NOT, SAW ONE THIS MORNING SMILING IN THE
MIRROR, I SWEAR I DON'T KNOW "IT"

Just read my sig.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Arch wrote: , am I a heretic for not trying
for my best at the lathe every time?

Is this a fault of one carefree underachiever or are there other
part-time slobs out there? If so, can the compulsive overachievers ever
understand us? Moreover, who cares?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Your comment goes to the question: "Why do I turn?"

Some turn for the challenge - they might want to improve. Some turn
for fun and are quite satisfied with their product. Some turn for
commerce where speed, quality and cost containment mean everything.

Faults? No. Only different motivations.

Joe Fleming - San Diego



Arch wrote:
Excellent work doesn't arise 'de nouveau'.
Fine turnings result from hard work and attention to detail. At least
I
think that's true. Question: where is it written that to advance, we
must always do the best we can? Answer: Everywhere.

Almost every instructional demo, article or posting admonishes us to
turn at our max and strive for even higher, no exceptions. It appears
that anything less is anathema and the attitude of a flawed
woodturner.

Reasonably good but less than best may be unacceptable, even for
production work, but this isn't about turning 50 fine bannisters or a
superior one-off object. It's about sloppy turning, happy and
unfettered. Is it wrong to just have fun with no need to eternally
reach
for unattainable perfection?

Forget art vs craft, grind vs hone, peel vs punch, and all that;
carefree vs compulsive is the debate du jour. If there are no rules,
no
always, no nevers and no turning police, am I a heretic for not
trying
for my best at the lathe every time?

Is this a fault of one carefree underachiever or are there other
part-time slobs out there? If so, can the compulsive overachievers
ever
understand us? Moreover, who cares?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Joe Fleming" wrote in message
oups.com...
Your comment goes to the question: "Why do I turn?"

Some turn for the challenge - they might want to improve. Some turn
for fun and are quite satisfied with their product. Some turn for
commerce where speed, quality and cost containment mean everything.

Faults? No. Only different motivations.


Concisely and correctly put. Though a hobby turner can be any or none at
different times. I tend to turn in "tears" as the musicians have it. I get
an idea and make it over and over, varying a bit here and there, making in
different wood, even, as the current fascination - plates, moving the center
around to make an otherwise regular piece of scrap look different. I have a
feeling that the 4x7 pine cutoff I turned may end the obsession for me.
That, and the fact that if I don't get off my duff and final turn some of
those roughs, I may not have enough commercial product to pay the kid's
college....

On Sat, 7 May 2005 17:44:09 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

Excellent work doesn't arise 'de nouveau'.
Fine turnings result from hard work and attention to detail. At least I
think that's true. Question: where is it written that to advance, we
must always do the best we can? Answer: Everywhere.

Almost every instructional demo, article or posting admonishes us to
turn at our max and strive for even higher, no exceptions. It appears
that anything less is anathema and the attitude of a flawed woodturner.

Reasonably good but less than best may be unacceptable, even for
production work, but this isn't about turning 50 fine bannisters or a
superior one-off object. It's about sloppy turning, happy and
unfettered. Is it wrong to just have fun with no need to eternally reach
for unattainable perfection?

Forget art vs craft, grind vs hone, peel vs punch, and all that;
carefree vs compulsive is the debate du jour. If there are no rules, no
always, no nevers and no turning police, am I a heretic for not trying
for my best at the lathe every time?

Is this a fault of one carefree underachiever or are there other
part-time slobs out there? If so, can the compulsive overachievers ever
understand us? Moreover, who cares?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter

yes and no, but not right away.. *g*

My ego prevents me from imagining perfection in my work, but I'm trying to get
better and more efficient with each turning..

OTOH, I'll often just chuck up a foot or so of branch wood and make shavings...
sure, I'm often trying things that I read about here that day, but mostly doing
it for the joy of turning..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Very much akin to Mac, every now and then I mount a length of
branchwood and just hammer it, not WITH a hammer, not trying to make
anything, just to be a beginner again and experience the sheer pleasure
of just turning. Sometimes it works although more often than not it
stimulates me into turning something worthwhile.

As for being less accomplished, I think the whole experience is
enhanced by a form of regressive activity, or have I missed the point?

Regards,
Peter Charles Fagg
Freshwater, Isle of Wight,
United Kingdom.
www.petersplatters.co.uk
Each can do but little!
But if each DID that little,
ALL would be done!

I think you should try to do your best all the time. People have different
levels of skill and one should work with in that range occatioally pushing
your self to advace, but that is not on every job or project. I have have
been working in my job occupation for a long time. When management wants
something fast and you throw it together or you repeatedly have to redo
things your craftmenship starts to slip and your work goes down. It has
happened to me. That gets to be the norm and you have to push yourself to
get back in the groove. I now try to do the best and temp work I make look
like temp work so it has to be redone. At the end of the day you are the
one who has to look at it and be satisfied.

Bruce
"Arch" wrote in message
...
Excellent work doesn't arise 'de nouveau'.
Fine turnings result from hard work and attention to detail. At least I
think that's true. Question: where is it written that to advance, we
must always do the best we can? Answer: Everywhere.

Almost every instructional demo, article or posting admonishes us to
turn at our max and strive for even higher, no exceptions. It appears
that anything less is anathema and the attitude of a flawed woodturner.

Reasonably good but less than best may be unacceptable, even for
production work, but this isn't about turning 50 fine bannisters or a
superior one-off object. It's about sloppy turning, happy and
unfettered. Is it wrong to just have fun with no need to eternally reach
for unattainable perfection?

Forget art vs craft, grind vs hone, peel vs punch, and all that;
carefree vs compulsive is the debate du jour. If there are no rules, no
always, no nevers and no turning police, am I a heretic for not trying
for my best at the lathe every time?

Is this a fault of one carefree underachiever or are there other
part-time slobs out there? If so, can the compulsive overachievers ever
understand us? Moreover, who cares?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch wrote:
Excellent work doesn't arise 'de nouveau'.
Fine turnings result from hard work and attention to detail. At least I
think that's true. Question: where is it written that to advance, we
must always do the best we can? Answer: Everywhere.

Almost every instructional demo, article or posting admonishes us to
turn at our max and strive for even higher, no exceptions. It appears
that anything less is anathema and the attitude of a flawed woodturner.

Reasonably good but less than best may be unacceptable, even for
production work, but this isn't about turning 50 fine bannisters or a
superior one-off object. It's about sloppy turning, happy and
unfettered. Is it wrong to just have fun with no need to eternally reach
for unattainable perfection?

Forget art vs craft, grind vs hone, peel vs punch, and all that;
carefree vs compulsive is the debate du jour. If there are no rules, no
always, no nevers and no turning police, am I a heretic for not trying
for my best at the lathe every time?

Is this a fault of one carefree underachiever or are there other
part-time slobs out there? If so, can the compulsive overachievers ever
understand us? Moreover, who cares?

I often approach the lathe with no goal in mind, I just want to turn
something and make shavings because it's fun, and I get a thrill out of
just using tools in general.
I feel it's very important to enjoy the process itself, rather than just
a means to an end. Then you tend to get better at it, naturally.
Zen and the art of woodturning, maybe?

Ken Grunke
http://www.token.crwoodturner.com/

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Bruce Ferguson wrote:
I think you should try to do your best all the time. People have different
levels of skill and one should work with in that range occatioally pushing
your self to advace, but that is not on every job or project. I have have
been working in my job occupation for a long time. When management wants
something fast and you throw it together or you repeatedly have to redo
things your craftmenship starts to slip and your work goes down. It has
happened to me. That gets to be the norm and you have to push yourself to
get back in the groove. I now try to do the best and temp work I make look
like temp work so it has to be redone. At the end of the day you are the
one who has to look at it and be satisfied.

I think there is room for individuals to set their own goals. Just as in
business there is sometimes a need to make absolute top quality
products, there is also more often the need for a level of quality that
can be achieved to a fixed cost. As unpleasant as the latter may be, at
many levels, it is a reality we often have to live with.

For the hobbiest woodturner it is up to them to set their goals and
decide why they want to pursue the craft. If that means hacking away at
a hunk of wood with dull scraping tools just for the sheer pleasure of
making rough shapes in wood, then why not? Ultimately that person may
set a new personal goal and improve their skills. Whether they will get
as much enjoyment from making the more perfect piece is hard to say and
will depend on their personality.

Let me tell you a story. I once tried my hand at golf. I quiet fancied
whacking a ball around a field. But everyone else took it so damn
serious. They worried about how they held the club and how many whacks
it took to get around the course. For me that ruined the experience and
I never went back. For me the 'doing' was much more important than the
end result. I should add that this attitude does not roll over into my
woodturning endeavours, where I set much higher goals, depending on what
I am making.

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/

I'd suggest that your "best" work is a funcion of what you are trying to
accomplish. "Best" for a piece of furniture you expect to last for 200
years is quite different than "best" for having fun making curlies from
a branch off the firewood pile. The objective in each case is quite
different, therefor what comprises "best work" has to change as well.
The "best" quick and dirty patch is one that is accomplished the most
quickly and cheaply that accomplishes the task. Spending hours out in
the storm to make an elegantly crafted, perfectly fit patch for the hole
in the wall is a pretty perverted idea of best when the rain is coming
in the house! Similarly painstaking attention to detail may not
accomplish either the fun or learning goals of playing with making
shavings out of firewood.

Yes, I think one should always strive for "best", but the definition of
best has to be made appropriate to the task at hand--are you
accomplishing the goal in an optimal way, be that making the most
perfect object you can, or having the most fun possible, or whatever
blend you have set for yourself that day.

Roger

(Arch) wrote in news:11233-427D36A9-68@storefull-
3177.bay.webtv.net:
snip
Is this a fault of one carefree underachiever or are there other
part-time slobs out there? If so, can the compulsive overachievers ever
understand us? Moreover, who cares?


If it's not production, it's practice?

What about the oft-expressed notion "the most fun you can have with your
pants on"?

Patriarch,
turning neophyte

"Derek Andrews" wrote: (clip)I once tried my hand at golf. I quiet fancied
whacking a ball around a field. But everyone else took it so damn serious.
They worried about how they held the club and how many whacks it took to
get around the course. For me that ruined the experience and I never went
back. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am not a golfer, so maybe I don't "get it," but I don't see how you can
expect golf to be interesting if you take away the purpose of the game.
"How many whacks it took to get around the course" is what the game is
about. You might as well drive the Indy 500 as a Sunday drive, or play
tennis without trying to defeat your opponent. On the other hand, I'm happy
as can be riding my bicycle without racing against anyone.

Woodturning can be like a competive sport, if you want it to be, where you
get your enjoyment from outdoing other turners, and winning blue ribbons.
Or it can be a fun activity, where you just do what you enjoy, and maybe
give the pieces away to family and friends. Or it can be a part of a more
general shop activity, where you use the lathe to make things round, for
purposes of construction or repair.

On Tue, 10 May 2005 07:59:35 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

Woodturning can be like a competive sport, if you want it to be, where you
get your enjoyment from outdoing other turners, and winning blue ribbons.
Or it can be a fun activity, where you just do what you enjoy, and maybe
give the pieces away to family and friends. Or it can be a part of a more
general shop activity, where you use the lathe to make things round, for
purposes of construction or repair.

I'd second that. My lathe was purchased for making accessories like
knobs and spindles to use in larger furniture projects, and things
like chessmen turned between centers to go with nice chessboards
(where the chessboard was the centerpiece, not the men)

When I make something like a lamp or a vase, it's just a fun little
side project, and doing my best generally means just getting a glassy
surface on some nice looking wood. I could care less what the bottom
looks like, or how thin the walls are, but that's just my take on it.
Most of those projects end up as gifts, and the people who get them
seem to really like the stuff, so that's good enough for me.

On the other hand, if I make a table and one leg is 1/32" longer than
the other three, or if a hidden joint has a 1/64" gap in it, I get
pretty upset about it. Guess it just depends on where your focus
is...

And of course, I may change my mind about some of that as I develop
greater skill with the lathe- but for now it's a welcome relief from
the stress I put on myself when it comes to cabinetry, and it'd be
nice to keep it that way!
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"Derek Andrews" wrote: (clip)I once tried my hand at golf. I quiet
fancied
whacking a ball around a field. But everyone else took it so damn
serious.
They worried about how they held the club and how many whacks it took to
get around the course. For me that ruined the experience and I never went
back. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am not a golfer, so maybe I don't "get it," but I don't see how you can
expect golf to be interesting if you take away the purpose of the game.
"How many whacks it took to get around the course" is what the game is
about. You might as well drive the Indy 500 as a Sunday drive, or play
tennis without trying to defeat your opponent. On the other hand, I'm
happy
as can be riding my bicycle without racing against anyone.

Woodturning can be like a competive sport, if you want it to be, where you
get your enjoyment from outdoing other turners, and winning blue ribbons.
Or it can be a fun activity, where you just do what you enjoy, and maybe
give the pieces away to family and friends. Or it can be a part of a more
general shop activity, where you use the lathe to make things round, for
purposes of construction or repair.



Perhaps Derek was measuring himself against the task rather than the others
("outdoing"), gaining pleasure from the experience, not yelling fore, taking
five and writing three.

I think the ones whose teeth were gritted, stomachs churning and temper
flaring as they pursued par or better, or who had to remind themselves over
and over to relax are the ones who have lost sight of the purpose of the
game.

On Tue, 10 May 2005 06:33:05 -0400, "George" george@least wrote:


"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...
snip

Perhaps Derek was measuring himself against the task rather than the others
("outdoing"), gaining pleasure from the experience, not yelling fore, taking
five and writing three.

I think the ones whose teeth were gritted, stomachs churning and temper
flaring as they pursued par or better, or who had to remind themselves over
and over to relax are the ones who have lost sight of the purpose of the
game.

Bottom line, IMHO... they forget that it's just a GAME..

Some people take up hobbies to lower stress and then stress out over their
hobbies..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing