I certainly do not wish to enter into the arena of musing Arch has so
painstakingly planted and nourished. A good bit of our time is spent
pondering, musing, cogitatin' and dreaming. As such, I was doing some
thinking the other night and wondered this group as well as the many
websites and books have given me a fine start in turning. Following
suggestions, looking at the pics and what not go a long way toward teaching
and illuminating. Answers to "How do I ... "questions are answered here or
on the webpages.
However most of the questions and answers focus on the pre turn or finishing
stages. What about those issues such as:
Boy I really screwed this thing up. Turned a bit too green, wasn't able to
get back to it for a day or two and how it split all to hades and back.
These things happend particuarly to those of us who have yet to be able to
claim 100s of hours in front of spinning wood.
I was thinking of a fix it type page. For example, how to fix splits/cracks
in a bowl that lacks nothing but the final sanding and finish. Do I get
some of the fine sawdust, pack it into the crack and drizzle thin CA over
it? Perhaps a thicker CA is the way to go.

thanks,
-Kevin

I was thinking of a fix it type page. For example, how to fix
splits/cracks
in a bowl that lacks nothing but the final sanding and finish. Do I get
some of the fine sawdust, pack it into the crack and drizzle thin CA over
it? Perhaps a thicker CA is the way to go.

Kevin, for cracks it depends on how big the crack is. If it is real big I
see two choices: 1) designate it as firewood or 2) leave it cracked and call
it a design feature. (Remember, if it won't hold soup, it is art!)

Now for smaller cracks you can fill them with something. Sawdust is OK. I've
used coffee grounds that I crushed into a finer powder. Others us brass
shavings. And there are some commercial products. I think Inlace is one of
them. And of course drizzle it with CA as you suggested.

I turn mostly green wood and if I leave it over-night or longer I paint it
with PVA sealer. It works for me.
When you get back to it again all takes is a thin skim and you are back to
where you left it.
To do this it is necessry to leave it over size and then go for the finish
in one session.

It also works if you are roughing the piece and putting it away to season.

Good luck.

BillR

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
Boy I really screwed this thing up. Turned a bit too green, wasn't able
to
get back to it for a day or two and how it split all to hades and back.
thanks,
-Kevin

I just turned a few green Maple bowls & they're cracking badly at the
heart wood. I'm trying (not sure if it will work) to fix them by
putting a wet paper towel over the crack & keeping that moist to let
the rest of the bowl catch up. I have microwaved them some, but don't
like to do it too much or that leads to other cracks. The bowls are
decorative & the dark heart shouldn't show a small crack sealed with
CA. Anyone ever had any luck doing this?

Jim

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I certainly do not wish to enter into the arena of musing Arch has so
painstakingly planted and nourished. A good bit of our time is spent
pondering, musing, cogitatin' and dreaming. As such, I was doing some
thinking the other night and wondered this group as well as the many
websites and books have given me a fine start in turning. Following
suggestions, looking at the pics and what not go a long way toward
teaching
and illuminating. Answers to "How do I ... "questions are answered here
or
on the webpages.
However most of the questions and answers focus on the pre turn or
finishing
stages. What about those issues such as:
Boy I really screwed this thing up. Turned a bit too green, wasn't able
to
get back to it for a day or two and how it split all to hades and back.
These things happend particuarly to those of us who have yet to be able to
claim 100s of hours in front of spinning wood.
I was thinking of a fix it type page. For example, how to fix
splits/cracks
in a bowl that lacks nothing but the final sanding and finish. Do I get
some of the fine sawdust, pack it into the crack and drizzle thin CA over
it? Perhaps a thicker CA is the way to go.

thanks,
-Kevin
=======You are treading on dangerous territory and stand the risk of
rousing the COC's ire for trespassing on the Muse's prerogatives! However,
I expect we can accept a "wondering" inquiry without too much fear of Music
ire. As to the green wood problem, I am a proponent of the LDD method and,
as a result, suffer greatly for my stalwart defense of it. You might want to
try it if you are strong enough to withstand the slings and arrows of less
progressive turners. Prophets in their lands . . . etc! As to cracks, you
can claim them as artistic expressions in the piece, or your can pack them
with colored material available for such a purpose, pour molten metal into
them, stitch them together, rivet them, further widen them and call them
handholds and ultimately, you can just pitch it into the firewood pile and
try all over with a new piece of wood.

Best of Luck,
Leif

"Jim" wrote in message
ups.com...
I just turned a few green Maple bowls & they're cracking badly at the
heart wood. I'm trying (not sure if it will work) to fix them by
putting a wet paper towel over the crack & keeping that moist to let
the rest of the bowl catch up. I have microwaved them some, but don't
like to do it too much or that leads to other cracks. The bowls are
decorative & the dark heart shouldn't show a small crack sealed with
CA. Anyone ever had any luck doing this?


If you look at how the wood shrinks as it dries, you'll find that the heart
is under the most stress. Radial shrinkage pulls the sides down, tangential
pulls them in, and focus for both seems to be right there. It's also about
the weakest point in the wood, since it's the oldest, took a lot of abuse
whipping around before it grew enough support, and so forth. Don't use it,
and don't expect any puny CA glue to hold it against cracking. You might
get away with it once, but the next ten times....

Now, considering that as the sides withdraw, and this area will remain above
to be trimmed later to get a smooth rim, you can push things a bit, going
within a half inch of the pith, looking at the piece daily during the first
week of drying, and carving away any incipient cracking. Remember, it would
have been above the rim anyway, and stopping the beginning stops the
continuation. You're safe on hard maple for 1/4" of trim on a 10" bowl.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm will get
you to a marvelous publication, with chapter 3 showing you in pictures and
words how wood warps, explaining the difference between bound and unbound
water, and why only the first affects warping. Armed with this information,
you can make some informed decisions about where and how to turn and store
your green wood. There are many people who believe you can dry things by
soaks, boiling, or sacrificing a virgin - a method seldom used now due to
the difficulty of finding one - at midnight on the fifth Thursday of the
month. Though they may begin elsewhere, all end up the same place, trying
to control the bound moisture loss from the surface of the piece to a pace
which will allow steady replacement from the interior. This is done by
controlling relative humidity. I have a basement, so I just set them near
the floor, tossing a newsprint tent over them in the dead of dry winter.
Drier climates demand more stringent control.

Then there's the truth that brownheart in maple has so many cracks in it
that it's best trimmed away. As long as the heart is the more familiar
blue-gray, you're good. When full brown and tobacco-smelling, it's a fools
errand chasing the cracks.

Kevin,
I don't think that I've ever cut through a log that didn't have some
radial cracking in the center. I used to try to cut exactly down the
pith trying to line up the grain for centering in the bowl and the
cracks. Now, on most logs I will usually cut a 1 to 4 inch section out
of the center, to remove the pith and radial cracks. I lost a number of
bowls to cracks that I thought I had turned out but didn't quite get
them all out. The center section can still yield some nice bowls (more
of the personal size kind) and the quarter sawn pattern is nice.

I am also rethinking the use of CA glue. I was visiting Mike Mahoney's
web site and saw his guarentee. It is life time because all of his
bowls are free of defects. I have always wondered how long the CA glue
will hold. Sometimes, the time spent repairing a cracked bowl isn't
worth it. For the art pieces I think it would be safer, but for the use
and abuse pieces, which are 75% of my sales, I am refraining form using
the glue a lot more.

robo hippy

Thanks, George, but darn. Full brown heart it is. I'm not really sure
where the stresses in this piece are. The end of log picture in the
FPL's book is a good one, but this piece is the base of a branch coming
out of a big, old trunk. The grain is going all over. Several
different grain patterns in the bowl. I probably should have cut the
piece smaller.

Jim

"Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks, George, but darn. Full brown heart it is. I'm not really sure
where the stresses in this piece are. The end of log picture in the
FPL's book is a good one, but this piece is the base of a branch coming
out of a big, old trunk. The grain is going all over. Several
different grain patterns in the bowl. I probably should have cut the
piece smaller.

Crotch figure. Remember, all warp is local, just like politics. Visualize
the branch as it intersects the trunk, consider how it will warp, and figure
it's going to distort the underlying accordingly.

The stress is actually compression under the branch, tension above. This is
unpredictable to a degree, as you might guess from the curl. I leave it a
bit fat, and dry slow. Worst part is that it tends to, for lack of a better
description, flake up on either side of the branch insertion.

Bring 'er down slow after you've cleared as much brown as possible. Worst
case is you wasted some floor space on a piece of firewood. That's the way
it is with crotch figure. Do everything right, and a bark pocket runs
wrong, making a split platter. Do everything wrong, and you blunder onto
the one that shows full feathers.

Main thing is to do.

Well, it looks like I got everything balanced pretty well with the way
the grain ran around, but I have that knot right in the bottom. I
filled it with clear epoxy, which didn't come out as clear as I would
have liked, but looks OK. The knot had a pretty even split in it with
3 legs. I ground them out a bit with a roto tool bit, so they still
look pretty natural but a bit neater. Anyway, I'm trying to clean it
up now & that didn't go well this morning. Kept tearing the bottom
grain. I hadn't planned on rechucking it, so it's tough to get a good
grip on. (I typically like to turn them green & then dry them letting
any warping stay.) Anyway, it hasn't been a waste of time. I've
learned a lot. Never had a piece of Maple cut like this or this wet
before. Live & learn & turn, turn, turn.... G As you say, George.
Just do.

Unfortunately, I had to take a break to put up a fence for the horses
who are trying to play with a pony on the other side & keep hurting
themselves. (Half ton animals that make chickens look smart. sigh)

Do you ever dye a filler? Ever put a dye in epoxy? I thought about
it, but didn't have any on hand. Never done it anyway. Do they make
special dyes for epoxy?

Jim

"Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
SNIP .......
Do you ever dye a filler? Ever put a dye in epoxy? I thought about
it, but didn't have any on hand. Never done it anyway. Do they make
special dyes for epoxy?

Jim
===============
Jim,
There are several wAys you can color epoxy. Brass filings work well, as does
crushed stone like turquoise. I've used artist's acrylic paints (a couple of
drops in a spoonful of epoxy) and got good results. Too much of the paint
will weaken the epoxy. I have heard of others using aniline dyes, but I have
no experience myself. Other fillings include coffe, charcoal, sawdust, etc.,
anything that will give you the color you want. YMMY

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX

"Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well, it looks like I got everything balanced pretty well with the way
the grain ran around, but I have that knot right in the bottom. I
filled it with clear epoxy, which didn't come out as clear as I would
have liked, but looks OK.

Unfortunately, I had to take a break to put up a fence for the horses
who are trying to play with a pony on the other side & keep hurting
themselves. (Half ton animals that make chickens look smart. sigh)

Do you ever dye a filler? Ever put a dye in epoxy? I thought about
it, but didn't have any on hand. Never done it anyway. Do they make
special dyes for epoxy?


I haven't been working much outside, as it's been snowing off and on up
here, so I turned some waterlogged yellow birch pieces yesterday. They
were down at least a half dozen years, so there were a lot of cracks
revealed in the process. With the extent of spalt, most should remain as
is rather than open as the pieces finally dry.

I take chunks of bark, run through a burr mill and bottle 'em. Runs from
cherry which is almost black to birch underbark, which is yellow, down to
aspen which is near white. Coffee is a bit oily, so it's not my first
choice, and with sawdust you get that dead fish eye look, so I pack with
grindings and glue to close to my final surface, scattering the last on top
where it adheres without absorbing much. That allows a wider latitude in
finishes.

Check the plumbing part of your home center for colored epoxy. I like the
copper-colored stuff with cherry and birch, but they have black as well.

Thank you, Ken.

Thanks, George. Spring has sprung here, so I really should be doing
more outside - fresh asparagus last night from our bed.

I have a clear epoxy that I buy in gallon jugs & mix up a bit at a
time, since it comes with 1oz pumps. It's made for clear table tops &
I've used it on bowls with good success. It's excellent for filling in
voids in a Maple burl & making a usable bowl out of it or holding it
together if there is a big chunk of bark in it. I may try some of the
dyes or paint that Ken mentioned. Typically, I prefer the natural
look, but that cracked knot might have looked good with something more
striking in it. I'll look for the plumbing epoxy too. That might have
been better in this application anyway. The clear stuff can be kind of
finicky.

That bowl never did turn out. I think it was doomed from the get go.
I'd touch it with a chisel, go along fine & suddenly get a catch. Get
that 99% of the way out & get another. Did that until the bottom was
too thin. sigh Oh well, there's more wood where that came from.

Jim

"Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
That bowl never did turn out. I think it was doomed from the get go.
I'd touch it with a chisel, go along fine & suddenly get a catch. Get
that 99% of the way out & get another. Did that until the bottom was
too thin. sigh Oh well, there's more wood where that came from.

Some are, but I know I still try to sneak around some known fault for the
sake of some particularly nice figure. It's the one in ten that makes it -
spectacularly - that keeps us trying.

Kevin wrote in message on Thursday
28 April 2005 03:14 pm:

What about those issues such as:
Boy I really screwed this thing up. Turned a bit too green, wasn't able
to get back to it for a day or two and how it split all to hades and back.

I have two bowls at present that were deliberately turned this way. They
came from logs with about an 8" dia so they aren't especially big bowls,
but they do have some nice figure due to crotches (ash / emerald borer ...
I hope the city isn't too disappointed that I grabbed that log they left
waying by the road).

Rather than risk letting natural forces dry them, I turned them now even
though I can't find the tool bit I need for hollowing them. (I'll get them
from Woodcraft tomorrow on the way home from work.) Since it will be many
hours before I can finish this off, I hit on the idea of dunking them in a
pail full of water to keep them wet until I am good and ready to dry them
(after more roughing out)

What say you? Inspired madness or did I just machine gun myself in the foot?

Bill C.

"Bill C." wrote in message
...


Rather than risk letting natural forces dry them, I turned them now even
though I can't find the tool bit I need for hollowing them. (I'll get them
from Woodcraft tomorrow on the way home from work.) Since it will be many
hours before I can finish this off, I hit on the idea of dunking them in a
pail full of water to keep them wet until I am good and ready to dry them
(after more roughing out)

What say you? Inspired madness or did I just machine gun myself in the
foot?


Years of logging practice has sprayed uncut timber to keep it from checking.
Little disinfectant in the water wouldn't hurt, especially if you forget
them until Sunday. Things can work up to fermenting in a few days.

You could also close bag them with good success.