Recently, I was reduced to watching a TV program, "Antiques Roadshow".
No Leif, I was _not the main character! Anyway, a higher value was
placed on objects that were handmade by recognizable craftsmen who used
crude tools and local materials. Granted that some of the most valuable
items were ornate and made of expensive and exotic materials. Also true,
these objects were considered as antiques and not judged against the
art/craft/whatever of today. Nevertheless, I wonder if there is any
message for today's turners, whether hobbyists, tradesmen or artists.

If an original, exquisite near perfect bowl could be made and finished
on a machine and signed by the programmer, would it still be less worthy
than a copy of it handturned and signed? I leave the answer and
explanation to you. It seems the less an object is made by using
controlled machines and the assistance of sophisticated tooling the
higher the value placed on it by the cognoscenti. Turners have access to
threading devices, specialized kit for hollowing, ornamental equipment,
lasers and microwaves. Today's catalogs are full of turning aids and no
telling what will be offered for sale tomorrow. There's no halting
progress, but is there a dividing line drawn somewhere between holding a
gouge on a handrest and programming a CNC? If so, who drew it and where
is it drawn? Maybe it moves around according to the state of the art
and our need to return to simple things. Maybe I'm a nut in COC
clothing!
I know that there a few professional turners remaining who use a pole
lathe and a few others that turn treen and simple things for a living.
In the years to come will their work be the leading actors on the TV
Antiques Road Show? Will there even be TV (or hand turning for that
matter) in 2050? I'll never know, but I hope you guys will post your
opinions, positive or negative, now. An orphan musing is a sad thing.


Just musing on a rainy Sunday afternoon. Arch

Fortiter,


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch, I don't believe I have seen a orphan musing yet. But who is it to
really say if a turned piece of 50 or 100 years ago is anything other
antique just because of age, therefor worth a lot of $, when one turned
buy a woodworker for the sheer pleasure, of the same quality or better,
is worth less. I think worth should also consider sentiment to the
owner and or buyer.

As for stuff done one a CNC, yes it may be well made, but where is the
craftsmanship of producing the piece? You could say the craftsmanship
is in the design of the piece but designers can and do produce beautiful
work (concept, drawings, etc.) but how many produce the finished product
with there own hands as well?

If this missed the meat of your musing, hopefully it snicked a corner.

James
www.cryscom.nb.ca


Arch wrote:
Recently, I was reduced to watching a TV program, "Antiques Roadshow".
No Leif, I was _not the main character! Anyway, a higher value was
placed on objects that were handmade by recognizable craftsmen who used
crude tools and local materials. Granted that some of the most valuable
items were ornate and made of expensive and exotic materials. Also true,
these objects were considered as antiques and not judged against the
art/craft/whatever of today. Nevertheless, I wonder if there is any
message for today's turners, whether hobbyists, tradesmen or artists.

If an original, exquisite near perfect bowl could be made and finished
on a machine and signed by the programmer, would it still be less worthy
than a copy of it handturned and signed? I leave the answer and
explanation to you. It seems the less an object is made by using
controlled machines and the assistance of sophisticated tooling the
higher the value placed on it by the cognoscenti. Turners have access to
threading devices, specialized kit for hollowing, ornamental equipment,
lasers and microwaves. Today's catalogs are full of turning aids and no
telling what will be offered for sale tomorrow. There's no halting
progress, but is there a dividing line drawn somewhere between holding a
gouge on a handrest and programming a CNC? If so, who drew it and where
is it drawn? Maybe it moves around according to the state of the art
and our need to return to simple things. Maybe I'm a nut in COC
clothing!
I know that there a few professional turners remaining who use a pole
lathe and a few others that turn treen and simple things for a living.
In the years to come will their work be the leading actors on the TV
Antiques Road Show? Will there even be TV (or hand turning for that
matter) in 2050? I'll never know, but I hope you guys will post your
opinions, positive or negative, now. An orphan musing is a sad thing.


Just musing on a rainy Sunday afternoon. Arch

Fortiter,


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Yep, Radziwill, Ruczinsky, Dobrowolski....

"Arch" wrote in message
...
I know that there a few professional turners remaining who use a pole
lathe and a few others that turn treen and simple things for a living.
In the years to come will their work be the leading actors on the TV
Antiques Road Show? Will there even be TV (or hand turning for that
matter) in 2050? I'll never know, but I hope you guys will post your
opinions, positive or negative, now. An orphan musing is a sad thing.

I know that there a few professional turners remaining who use a pole
lathe and a few others that turn treen and simple things for a living.
In the years to come will their work be the leading actors on the TV
Antiques Road Show?

IMO, doubtful. I find it hard to envision that piees of moderate economic
value today (say a nicely made salad bowl by a "no name recognition turner" -
like me for example) is somehow going to jump past an Ellsworth fifty years
down the line. And wasn't Antiques Roadshow the program that NPR reported on a
few years ago that was somehow hoking up values to get attention for their
"expert appraisers" ?

Kip Powers
Rogers, AR

Arch,

I use some the new-fangled aids in hollowing. The difference between what I (we?) do, and CNC, is that I define the outside of the hollow form by hand and eye, then hollow to reach a desired thickness. The shape, curves, and texture of each bowl is unique - I can't get two exactly alike, even if I try. The shape in CNC is drawn or copied, and each will turn out exactly the same (to the tolerence of the machine). Also, once the shape is drawn, and the code sent to the machine, the CNC will craft what is drawn - no editing in progress. The CNC process assumes that the design is complete before the turning begins. As I turn, I look at curves and shapes, and refine as I go. Would this piece look better with a wider rim? Would a contrasting neck set off the grain better? I like to think that some of the value in a hand-turned piece, even those complemented by new technology, comes from the turner's interaction with each piece of wood.

My 2 cents.

Ron Williams
Minn-Dak Woodturners
Moorhead, MN

If an original, exquisite near perfect bowl could be made and finished
on a machine and signed by the programmer, would it still be less worthy
than a copy of it handturned and signed? I leave the answer and
explanation to you. It seems the less an object is made by using
controlled machines and the assistance of sophisticated tooling the
higher the value placed on it by the cognoscenti. Turners have access to
threading devices, specialized kit for hollowing, ornamental equipment,
lasers and microwaves. Today's catalogs are full of turning aids and no
telling what will be offered for sale tomorrow. There's no halting
progress, but is there a dividing line drawn somewhere between holding a
gouge on a handrest and programming a CNC? If so, who drew it and where
is it drawn? Maybe it moves around according to the state of the art
and our need to return to simple things.

Hi Arch

Arch maybe I'm just cynical but,
I thought the antiques road show was just a way for the insurance
industry to get more money out of every owner of old stuff.
then again maybe i'm wrong.
But Two hundred and forty thousand Dollars for a platter and nobody
cared who made it, just who's face is on it, o well, if I had it I would
be counting dollars, you can have the platter.

"Arch" wrote in message

In the years to come will their work be the leading actors on the TV
Antiques Road Show? Will there even be TV (or hand turning for that
matter) in 2050? I'll never know, but I hope you guys will post your
opinions, positive or negative, now. An orphan musing is a sad thing.

Thanks to each of you for adopting the orphan. I do love good
conversation and you all make valid points. I agree about the demerits
of the TV program and only used it for a can opener. James, not a
problem, often I don't know what I mean and there may not be any meat in
the can.

I'm CNC illiterate but I wonder why one couldn't be manipulated on line
by a programmer who is also an artist/craftsman (played like a piano)
to produce a unique bowl. Jim Gaydos? Arch

Fortiter,


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

You know, I really don't care if my stuff if worth thousands of dollars 50
years from now. I'll be dead, so that is someone else's problem or benefit.
I just can't worry about my legacy in that regard.

As long as I make my buck now, I'm happy.

Joe Fleming - San Diego
===================================
"Arch" wrote in message
...
Recently, I was reduced to watching a TV program, "Antiques Roadshow".
No Leif, I was _not the main character! Anyway, a higher value was
placed on objects that were handmade by recognizable craftsmen who used
crude tools and local materials. Granted that some of the most valuable
items were ornate and made of expensive and exotic materials. Also true,
these objects were considered as antiques and not judged against the
art/craft/whatever of today. Nevertheless, I wonder if there is any
message for today's turners, whether hobbyists, tradesmen or artists.

If an original, exquisite near perfect bowl could be made and finished
on a machine and signed by the programmer, would it still be less worthy
than a copy of it handturned and signed? I leave the answer and
explanation to you. It seems the less an object is made by using
controlled machines and the assistance of sophisticated tooling the
higher the value placed on it by the cognoscenti. Turners have access to
threading devices, specialized kit for hollowing, ornamental equipment,
lasers and microwaves. Today's catalogs are full of turning aids and no
telling what will be offered for sale tomorrow. There's no halting
progress, but is there a dividing line drawn somewhere between holding a
gouge on a handrest and programming a CNC? If so, who drew it and where
is it drawn? Maybe it moves around according to the state of the art
and our need to return to simple things. Maybe I'm a nut in COC
clothing!
I know that there a few professional turners remaining who use a pole
lathe and a few others that turn treen and simple things for a living.
In the years to come will their work be the leading actors on the TV
Antiques Road Show? Will there even be TV (or hand turning for that
matter) in 2050? I'll never know, but I hope you guys will post your
opinions, positive or negative, now. An orphan musing is a sad thing.


Just musing on a rainy Sunday afternoon. Arch

Fortiter,


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Oh, Joe! That is so instant gratification like! Think of the generations
unborn turners who will appreciate your work! The moment is important, of
course,but remember it will be the past in the future!*G*

Leif
"Joe Fleming" wrote in message
...
You know, I really don't care if my stuff if worth thousands of dollars 50
years from now. I'll be dead, so that is someone else's problem or
benefit.
I just can't worry about my legacy in that regard.

As long as I make my buck now, I'm happy.

Joe Fleming - San Diego
===================================
"Arch" wrote in message
...
Recently, I was reduced to watching a TV program, "Antiques Roadshow".
No Leif, I was _not the main character! Anyway, a higher value was
placed on objects that were handmade by recognizable craftsmen who used
crude tools and local materials. Granted that some of the most valuable
items were ornate and made of expensive and exotic materials. Also true,
these objects were considered as antiques and not judged against the
art/craft/whatever of today. Nevertheless, I wonder if there is any
message for today's turners, whether hobbyists, tradesmen or artists.

If an original, exquisite near perfect bowl could be made and finished
on a machine and signed by the programmer, would it still be less worthy
than a copy of it handturned and signed? I leave the answer and
explanation to you. It seems the less an object is made by using
controlled machines and the assistance of sophisticated tooling the
higher the value placed on it by the cognoscenti. Turners have access to
threading devices, specialized kit for hollowing, ornamental equipment,
lasers and microwaves. Today's catalogs are full of turning aids and no
telling what will be offered for sale tomorrow. There's no halting
progress, but is there a dividing line drawn somewhere between holding a
gouge on a handrest and programming a CNC? If so, who drew it and where
is it drawn? Maybe it moves around according to the state of the art
and our need to return to simple things. Maybe I'm a nut in COC
clothing!
I know that there a few professional turners remaining who use a pole
lathe and a few others that turn treen and simple things for a living.
In the years to come will their work be the leading actors on the TV
Antiques Road Show? Will there even be TV (or hand turning for that
matter) in 2050? I'll never know, but I hope you guys will post your
opinions, positive or negative, now. An orphan musing is a sad thing.


Just musing on a rainy Sunday afternoon. Arch

Fortiter,


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Greetings Arch,

Hmm, I think I feel a tangent coming on......Now I've watched "Antiques
Road Show " religiously for several decades both the North American and Brit
versions, and y'know apart from the odd spinning top I cant remember ever
seeing a larger turning being examined..........Did I miss the big one ?

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Recently, I was reduced to watching a TV program, "Antiques Roadshow".
No Leif, I was _not the main character! Anyway, a higher value was
placed on objects that were handmade by recognizable craftsmen who used
crude tools and local materials. Granted that some of the most valuable
items were ornate and made of expensive and exotic materials. Also true,
these objects were considered as antiques and not judged against the
art/craft/whatever of today. Nevertheless, I wonder if there is any
message for today's turners, whether hobbyists, tradesmen or artists.

If an original, exquisite near perfect bowl could be made and finished
on a machine and signed by the programmer, would it still be less worthy
than a copy of it handturned and signed? I leave the answer and
explanation to you. It seems the less an object is made by using
controlled machines and the assistance of sophisticated tooling the
higher the value placed on it by the cognoscenti. Turners have access to
threading devices, specialized kit for hollowing, ornamental equipment,
lasers and microwaves. Today's catalogs are full of turning aids and no
telling what will be offered for sale tomorrow. There's no halting
progress, but is there a dividing line drawn somewhere between holding a
gouge on a handrest and programming a CNC? If so, who drew it and where
is it drawn? Maybe it moves around according to the state of the art
and our need to return to simple things. Maybe I'm a nut in COC
clothing!
I know that there a few professional turners remaining who use a pole
lathe and a few others that turn treen and simple things for a living.
In the years to come will their work be the leading actors on the TV
Antiques Road Show? Will there even be TV (or hand turning for that
matter) in 2050? I'll never know, but I hope you guys will post your
opinions, positive or negative, now. An orphan musing is a sad thing.


Just musing on a rainy Sunday afternoon. Arch

Fortiter,


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings