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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#1
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My daughter is a professional artist and she is paid surprisingly high
(it seems to her dad 'G') prices for her paintings by international clients. She seems to pay little attention to the 'tools of her trade' while I spend hours thinking about, trying out and agonizing over turning stock, equipment and turning techniques. She is a success as an artist, I'm a journeyman. Things concerned with the making seem more important to me than the objects I make. I guess that means that woodturning is a hobby for me, but is this also true for workers in other media where art resides in an object? If art is in an object, craft must, of necessity, be involved. Unlike music, poetry, and painting, wood art demands that an object be made; Utilitarian or not; no object, no object of art. Embellishing by adding something not natural to the wood and/or ornamenting with coves, beads and such are part of crafting an object of wood art. How much or if any, of each is a world class FAQ, but it has no answer. The old adage: "Ornament the construction, don't construct the ornament" is sound advice, but hard to follow in actual practice. If I aspire to be a wood artist as well as a wood turner must I learn to execute, in depth, all the techniques needed to turn wood before I attempt to turn wood art? It seems obvious that there can be no mutual exclusion of either, but to some extent does an excess of one endeavor tend to diminish the other? Ain't I artful? Yep, I know this is beating a dead art/craft horse, but one hasn't been beaten on the ng all week and there are early signs of irritation and other withdrawal symptoms on rcw. My musing is a bad tasting antidote, but hopefully it's palliative. ![]() Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter, http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#2
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The post on potato chip bowls and the word "embellishing" remind me of a few
things I do as a matter of course to bowls intended for particular use. A salad bowl needs to stand up with the serving utensils hanging out. This means a broader base and/or heavier bottom than a display piece. A potato chip bowl doesn't need such a firm footing, but it certainly could use a lip extending either inward, where it would be in the way for salad, or outward, which would reduce capacity if turning at the max throw of the lathe. The lip acts as a thumbhold or a fingerhold as the bowl is passed, and can't really be replaced by beads, though two/three "V" grooves might do. Popcorn bowls are usually passed, but they also require thicker bottoms to keep the heat isolated from your lap, and special consideration in finish selection. Can't use a surface finish on a popcorn bowl. The old maids hold a lot of heat, and even if you're using Orville, there will be enough of them to blister the finish. Not to mention the obvious, that with salad and popcorn both, the ultimate finish is the oil used in the contents. Even chips are not _that_ oily. Anyone else with considerations for either design or material selection? It's an artistic choice just like bronze versus marble or fresco versus mosaic, in my opinion. "Arch" wrote in message ... Embellishing by adding something not natural to the wood and/or ornamenting with coves, beads and such are part of crafting an object of wood art. How much or if any, of each is a world class FAQ, but it has no answer. The old adage: "Ornament the construction, don't construct the ornament" is sound advice, but hard to follow in actual practice. |
#3
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Arch, which comes first the crafsman or the artist? Can you be one with
out the other or will one turn into the other. Are there natural born artists and craftsman or does one start as the craftsman and turns into an artist? What about us that are artistically challanged are we destend to be coppiers and forgers? For myself I think I have no imagination. As a painter I am looking at a blank canvas or writer with nothing on paper. I have a hard time with language and music. I think the toutchy feely part of my brain is small but the anyalitical side is much larger or is the more dominant. I also tend to look at the tools and the process of turning and I am delighted when something is completed and works. Could that be because I am at the begining of my craftmanship where things do not tend to work well. It is natural as skill develops one looks for the more difficult as one needs the challange. Will the artisticlly challanged ever see the art piece in the wood or must they depend on what others see. To the artist is the carftmanship a means to the end. Do they care how they got there or what shape their tools are in. I think the craftsman looks at the tools, loveingly cares for them, loves the process of the work for it's own sake and the product he makes is a bonus. As a craftsman I love being in my garadge shop with my books and videos. It is fun to read and then see if I can do that as a turner. I know I will never be an artist and I am happy at my level of craftmanship because I know it will get better and my enjoyment comes from the journey. Bruce "Arch" wrote in message ... My daughter is a professional artist and she is paid surprisingly high (it seems to her dad 'G') prices for her paintings by international clients. She seems to pay little attention to the 'tools of her trade' while I spend hours thinking about, trying out and agonizing over turning stock, equipment and turning techniques. She is a success as an artist, I'm a journeyman. Things concerned with the making seem more important to me than the objects I make. I guess that means that woodturning is a hobby for me, but is this also true for workers in other media where art resides in an object? If art is in an object, craft must, of necessity, be involved. Unlike music, poetry, and painting, wood art demands that an object be made; Utilitarian or not; no object, no object of art. Embellishing by adding something not natural to the wood and/or ornamenting with coves, beads and such are part of crafting an object of wood art. How much or if any, of each is a world class FAQ, but it has no answer. The old adage: "Ornament the construction, don't construct the ornament" is sound advice, but hard to follow in actual practice. If I aspire to be a wood artist as well as a wood turner must I learn to execute, in depth, all the techniques needed to turn wood before I attempt to turn wood art? It seems obvious that there can be no mutual exclusion of either, but to some extent does an excess of one endeavor tend to diminish the other? Ain't I artful? Yep, I know this is beating a dead art/craft horse, but one hasn't been beaten on the ng all week and there are early signs of irritation and other withdrawal symptoms on rcw. My musing is a bad tasting antidote, but hopefully it's palliative. ![]() Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter, http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#4
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Yep.
-- Gerald Ross Cochran, GA I'm not loafing. I work so fast I'm always finished ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#5
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Arch
I tend to think of the Art/Craft battle in terms of how the person who is performing the turning looks at what he does. If one goes out to his shop and is taking a set of plans or the latest project from "Woodturning Design" (no offense) with him/her and is having to stop and check every measurement and every thickness and consult the warning labels of the tools and finishes before using them and is always worried about having a terrible catch, then that person is taking the craft approach to woodturning. If one goes out to his studio with an idea of something he/she wants to make, but thinks that the process from getting from the lump of wood to the final piece of work is not as important as the joy they felt in making the shavings and arriving at the finished product with out someone elses input - then that is the approach of an artist. Whether the finished piece is art or crap that is the question that is answered at the point of sale. And that is all I have to say about that! Ray |
#6
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Arch
I tend to think of the Art/Craft battle in terms of how the person who is performing the turning looks at what he does. If one goes out to his shop and is taking a set of plans or the latest project from "Woodturning Design" (no offense) with him/her and is having to stop and check every measurement and every thickness and consult the warning labels of the tools and finishes before using them and is always worried about having a terrible catch, then that person is taking the craft approach to woodturning. If one goes out to his studio with an idea of something he/she wants to make, but thinks that the process from getting from the lump of wood to the final piece of work is not as important as the joy they felt in making the shavings and arriving at the finished product with out someone elses input - then that is the approach of an artist. Whether the finished piece is art or crap that is the question that is answered at the point of sale. And that is all I have to say about that! Ray |
#8
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![]() "Ray Sandusky" wrote in message ... Arch I tend to think of the Art/Craft battle in terms of how the person who is performing the turning looks at what he does. If one goes out to his shop and is taking a set of plans or the latest project from "Woodturning Design" (no offense) with him/her and is having to stop and check every measurement and every thickness and consult the warning labels of the tools and finishes before using them and is always worried about having a terrible catch, then that person is taking the craft approach to woodturning. If one goes out to his studio with an idea of something he/she wants to make, but thinks that the process from getting from the lump of wood to the final piece of work is not as important as the joy they felt in making the shavings and arriving at the finished product with out someone elses input - then that is the approach of an artist. Whether the finished piece is art or crap that is the question that is answered at the point of sale. And that is all I have to say about that! Ray ====Jeez, Ray! Are you saying my paint-by-the-number oeuvres aren't art?? *G* Leif |
#9
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Leif
I do not point fingers - if I point at you I have 3 fingers pointed back at me and that is enough of an indictment! However, I will suggest that you not follow the numbers and see what you get! Ray "Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message ... ====Jeez, Ray! Are you saying my paint-by-the-number oeuvres aren't art?? *G* Leif |
#10
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Everybody's a critic! *G*
"Ray Sandusky" wrote in message ... Leif I do not point fingers - if I point at you I have 3 fingers pointed back at me and that is enough of an indictment! However, I will suggest that you not follow the numbers and see what you get! Ray "Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message ... ====Jeez, Ray! Are you saying my paint-by-the-number oeuvres aren't art?? *G* Leif |
#11
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A craftsman and an artist are not mutually exclusive concepts except a
craftsman discounts the price of a work with mistakes and an artist increases the price of a work with mistakes. (a little joke) However an artist will never call it a mistake. (another little joke) Then again is a perfect photograph the product of a craftsman or an artist? A craftsman would be able to take the picture again. An artist would not want to. Finally, art is in the eye of the beholder. It can be something as discusting as a jar of urine or be a finely carved and polished statue done hundreds of years ago. It can take minutes or years to create. I bet you could not convince a parent that the 1st grade drawings on their refridgerator are not art. Is your salad bowl art? I helped a neighbor cut down a tree over the weekend. While in the middle of cutting it up into sections long enough to burn, the wife stopped me wanting the remaining part to use in landscaping the yard. The husband questioned (twice) that she wanted to put 'that' in the front yard. Is it art? To her it has a shape she likes and wants to display. Was I an artist because I was cutting up the tree? I didn't feel like one. |
#12
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Don't know William but I think a arborist could be a artist? yes?
Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo william kossack wrote: A craftsman and an artist are not mutually exclusive concepts except a craftsman discounts the price of a work with mistakes and an artist increases the price of a work with mistakes. (a little joke) However an artist will never call it a mistake. (another little joke) Then again is a perfect photograph the product of a craftsman or an artist? A craftsman would be able to take the picture again. An artist would not want to. Finally, art is in the eye of the beholder. It can be something as discusting as a jar of urine or be a finely carved and polished statue done hundreds of years ago. It can take minutes or years to create. I bet you could not convince a parent that the 1st grade drawings on their refridgerator are not art. Is your salad bowl art? I helped a neighbor cut down a tree over the weekend. While in the middle of cutting it up into sections long enough to burn, the wife stopped me wanting the remaining part to use in landscaping the yard. The husband questioned (twice) that she wanted to put 'that' in the front yard. Is it art? To her it has a shape she likes and wants to display. Was I an artist because I was cutting up the tree? I didn't feel like one. |
#13
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you bet
Leo Van Der Loo wrote in message ... Don't know William but I think a arborist could be a artist? yes? Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo william kossack wrote: A craftsman and an artist are not mutually exclusive concepts except a craftsman discounts the price of a work with mistakes and an artist increases the price of a work with mistakes. (a little joke) However an artist will never call it a mistake. (another little joke) Then again is a perfect photograph the product of a craftsman or an artist? A craftsman would be able to take the picture again. An artist would not want to. Finally, art is in the eye of the beholder. It can be something as discusting as a jar of urine or be a finely carved and polished statue done hundreds of years ago. It can take minutes or years to create. I bet you could not convince a parent that the 1st grade drawings on their refridgerator are not art. Is your salad bowl art? I helped a neighbor cut down a tree over the weekend. While in the middle of cutting it up into sections long enough to burn, the wife stopped me wanting the remaining part to use in landscaping the yard. The husband questioned (twice) that she wanted to put 'that' in the front yard. Is it art? To her it has a shape she likes and wants to display. Was I an artist because I was cutting up the tree? I didn't feel like one. |
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