Steve Firth wrote:

Is it possible to get a thermal store that will heat the incoming cold
water mains without needing a plate exchanger?

Yes. Our 'thermal store', which I converted into a heat bank (by adding
an external heat exchanger, flow switch and pump), can do exactly this.
It has a built in heat exchanger coil. Very long coil inside the
cylinder. You pass cold water in and it comes out hot.


--
Grunff

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 02:58:54 +0100, (Steve Firth)
wrote:


Up front, dIMM can **** off, I'm not interested in what he has to say.


Good to set out your store before starting :-)



My place in Italy is going to have several heat sources. Wood burner,
solar and possibly an LPG boiler of some sort. A thermal store therefore
seems like a good idea, particularly because SWMBO has decreed that the
ground floor *will* have underfloor heating.

However there's a weeny problem or two, both electricity and water
supplies are variable, and of course lack of availability of one has no
relationship to the other. All of the thermal stores I have looked at
are pumped, with three pumps on the majority of systems. That would mean
no hot water on days with no electricity.

Is it possible to get a thermal store that will heat the incoming cold
water mains without needing a plate exchanger?

I've seen one in a specialist place in California. It had a large
heat exchanger inside the store consisting of a sandwich of plates
rather like a plate heat exchanger but formed into chambers with gaps
in between. In effect, it provided a large contact area for the cold
water running through to be heated by the store water which was free
to circulate around the plate sections. The exchanger was a lot
larger than the typical plate heat exchanger and the overall store
must have been at least 500 litres. I've never seen these in Europe,
though.

Had you thought about solar electricity generation? A friend in
California is into this and with solar panels on his roof is able to
generate enough electricity on most days to run his electricity
requirements apart from cooking. This includes several computers and
associated equipment, lighting and charging his electric car.
I don't know the size of the panels but the house is a mid sized
suburban house - larger than Europe but not vast.
Perhaps it would be worth considering this and using more conventional
store and heating equipment. There would be more flexibility as well,
in that if the electricity fails, there is quite a lot that you can't
do. You might like some aspects of that of course :-)



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Is it possible to get a thermal store that will heat the incoming cold
water mains without needing a plate exchanger?

Yes. In fact a "thermal store" is exactly this. The type with a plate heat
exchanger is called a "heat bank". Although heat banks are better
performing, if you have a reliability issue that outweighs this, then the
thermal store would be best for you.

Another alternative is to have battery backup. This way you could keep the
entire heating system going, and maybe some emergency lighting, especially
if you have frequent short cuts.

Christian.

In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:

Is it possible to get a thermal store that will heat the incoming cold
water mains without needing a plate exchanger?

Yes. Our 'thermal store', which I converted into a heat bank (by adding
an external heat exchanger, flow switch and pump), can do exactly this.
It has a built in heat exchanger coil. Very long coil inside the
cylinder. You pass cold water in and it comes out hot.

How well did/does the internal coil work? I'm conidering such a tank
to save a bit of space. (and money) Water through the coil will come
from a loft tank and be pumped rather than mains, but the net effect
ought to be the same. (Very low mains flow rate where I am) However,
we have a rather large bath to fill, so wondering if it'll cope...

Gordon

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .

Up front, dIMM can **** off, I'm not interested in what he has to say.

Maxie, get in here. This one is insulting Dim Lin, the Oriental enchantress,
the love of your life. What scum! The world is full of filth, Steve Filth.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 02:58:54 +0100, (Steve Firth)
wrote:


Up front, dIMM can **** off, I'm not interested in what he has to say.

My place in Italy is going to have several heat sources. Wood burner,
solar and possibly an LPG boiler of some sort. A thermal store therefore
seems like a good idea, particularly because SWMBO has decreed that the
ground floor *will* have underfloor heating.

However there's a weeny problem or two, both electricity and water
supplies are variable, and of course lack of availability of one has no
relationship to the other. All of the thermal stores I have looked at
are pumped, with three pumps on the majority of systems. That would mean
no hot water on days with no electricity.

Is it possible to get a thermal store that will heat the incoming cold
water mains without needing a plate exchanger?

It may work out cheaper to get one of those little £44 generators from
Makro to run the pump on the rare occasions the mains supply goes
down.

sponix

Gordon Henderson wrote:

How well did/does the internal coil work? I'm conidering such a tank
to save a bit of space. (and money) Water through the coil will come
from a loft tank and be pumped rather than mains, but the net effect
ought to be the same. (Very low mains flow rate where I am) However,
we have a rather large bath to fill, so wondering if it'll cope...


It actually works very well. We used it with the internal coil for
several weeks before I switched to an external exchanger. My reason for
switching to an exchanger was not because I wanted more capacity, but
because I knew the coil would eventually scale up (very hard well
water). With an exchanger, replacement is easy.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Steve Firth wrote:

Is it possible to get a thermal store that will heat the incoming cold
water mains without needing a plate exchanger?

Yes. Our 'thermal store', which I converted into a heat bank (by adding
an external heat exchanger, flow switch and pump), can do exactly this.
It has a built in heat exchanger coil. Very long coil inside the
cylinder. You pass cold water in and it comes out hot.

You now have a hybrid thermal store. Why did you add a plate heat exchanger?
How did you pipe the coil/plate? How does it perform?



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Doctor Evil wrote:

You now have a hybrid thermal store. Why did you add a plate heat exchanger?

Because we have very hard water, I suspected that the coil would scale
up within 5-10 years. Replacing a plate exchanger is easy.


How did you pipe the coil/plate?

The tank had several spare blanked off threads at different levels. I
just used a spare pair, one about 1/3 of the way up, the other near the top.


How does it perform?

There is little difference in performance. The only noticeable thing is
a small increase in hot water delivery, because of the lower resistance
of the plate exchanger compared to the coil.


--
Grunff

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .

Is it possible to get a thermal
store that will heat the incoming cold
water mains without needing a plate
exchanger?

You don't need a thermal store. You need electric over the sink heaters
everywhere. When are you going to Italy for good?



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

You now have a hybrid thermal store. Why did you add a plate heat
exchanger?

Because we have very hard water, I suspected that the coil would scale
up within 5-10 years. Replacing a plate exchanger is easy.

How did you pipe the coil/plate?

The tank had several spare blanked off threads at different levels. I
just used a spare pair, one about 1/3 of the way up, the other near the
top.


How does it perform?

There is little difference in performance. The only noticeable thing is
a small increase in hot water delivery, because of the lower resistance
of the plate exchanger compared to the coil.

So, you disconnected the coil? It would have been better to have used the
coil for the kitchen tap. As then you will prevent the pump from cycling on
and off. If the kitchen tap is opened for a second, which is quite common,
the pump will energise for no apparent benefit. You could have took the
outlet of the coil into the plate. Around the flowswitch have a flow
regulator, which is a cheap in-line isolator. This only brings the plate in
when there are high flows.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
However there's a weeny problem or two, both electricity and water
supplies are variable, and of course lack of availability of one has no
relationship to the other. All of the thermal stores I have looked at
are pumped, with three pumps on the majority of systems. That would mean
no hot water on days with no electricity.

What sort of current do these pumps take?
Incorporating an invertor for supplying 230v from a car battery on a new
installation isn't too big or expensive a job.

--
*If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Evil wrote:

So, you disconnected the coil?

Yes, but it's still there.


It would have been better to have used the
coil for the kitchen tap. As then you will prevent the pump from cycling on
and off. If the kitchen tap is opened for a second, which is quite common,
the pump will energise for no apparent benefit. You could have took the
outlet of the coil into the plate. Around the flowswitch have a flow
regulator, which is a cheap in-line isolator. This only brings the plate in
when there are high flows.

Not a bad idea. Except that in order to get hot water in the kitchen,
you have to run the tap for at least 20 seconds. It's on the opposite
side of the house.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

So, you disconnected the coil?

Yes, but it's still there.


It would have been better to have used the
coil for the kitchen tap. As then you will prevent the pump from cycling
on
and off. If the kitchen tap is opened for a second, which is quite
common,
the pump will energise for no apparent benefit. You could have took the
outlet of the coil into the plate. Around the flowswitch have a flow
regulator, which is a cheap in-line isolator. This only brings the plate
in
when there are high flows.

Not a bad idea. Except that in order to get hot water in the kitchen,
you have to run the tap for at least 20 seconds. It's on the opposite
side of the house.

A secondary circulation loop required here.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Doctor Evil wrote:

A secondary circulation loop required here.

And one of those is?


--
Grunff

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
You don't need a thermal store. You need electric over the sink heaters
everywhere.

Can't say I've seen this solution in Ideal Homes. Do they fit neatly
between the twin 'combi's'?

--
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

A secondary circulation loop required here.

And one of those is?

A DHW draw-off pipe taken from the store looping around to all the taps and
back to the store. Hot water is pumped through the loop, so instant
draw-off at the taps. A bronze pump on a timer (or a dedicated secondary
circulation Grundfos will do) , a pipe stat and a few check valves. The
timer keeps the pump off at night.

Do Google secondary circulation on IMM and how to fit on a heat bank or
thermal store should be there.

In your case, I would connect up the coil from the cold supply, out of the
coil and into the plate, to the taps and back to the cold supply. Two check
valves have to be fitted near the cold inlet and the pump is fitted near the
cold supply to the coil. Put in an in-line restrictor on the return to
lower the flow so the flow switch does not cut in unnecessarily.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

You don't need a thermal store. You need electric over the sink heaters
everywhere.

Can't say I've seen this solution in Ideal Homes. Do they fit neatly
between the twin 'combi's'?

Yes, right next to the cabers.









_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Doctor Evil wrote:

In your case, I would connect up the coil from the cold supply, out of the
coil and into the plate, to the taps and back to the cold supply. Two check
valves have to be fitted near the cold inlet and the pump is fitted near the
cold supply to the coil. Put in an in-line restrictor on the return to
lower the flow so the flow switch does not cut in unnecessarily.


Maybe next time around. The house is now done. No more DIY for a good
few years.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

In your case, I would connect up the coil from the cold supply, out of
the
coil and into the plate, to the taps and back to the cold supply. Two
check
valves have to be fitted near the cold inlet and the pump is fitted near
the
cold supply to the coil. Put in an in-line restrictor on the return to
lower the flow so the flow switch does not cut in unnecessarily.

Maybe next time around. The house is now done. No more DIY for a good
few years.

I would have at least connected up the coil with the plate in parallel, so
that if the DHW pump or plate fails, turning three valves will bring in the
coil, and no down time in DHW. It is there so use it. That can be done in
a few hours costing about £15.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:44:49 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Gordon Henderson wrote:

How well did/does the internal coil work? I'm conidering such a tank
to save a bit of space. (and money) Water through the coil will come
from a loft tank and be pumped rather than mains, but the net effect
ought to be the same. (Very low mains flow rate where I am) However,
we have a rather large bath to fill, so wondering if it'll cope...


It actually works very well. We used it with the internal coil for
several weeks before I switched to an external exchanger. My reason for
switching to an exchanger was not because I wanted more capacity, but
because I knew the coil would eventually scale up (very hard well
water). With an exchanger, replacement is easy.

You need one of those electronic things.... :-)



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , Doctor Evil wrote:
You don't need a thermal store. You need electric over the sink heaters
everywhere. When are you going to Italy for good?

What's wrong with an undersink heater? Much neater.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Evil wrote:
You don't need a thermal store. You need electric over the sink heaters
everywhere. When are you going to Italy for good?

What's wrong with an undersink heater? Much neater.

His need to be over the sink. He can they put flowers on top of them.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Gordon Henderson wrote:

How well did/does the internal coil work? I'm conidering such a tank
to save a bit of space. (and money) Water through the coil will come
from a loft tank and be pumped rather than mains, but the net effect
ought to be the same. (Very low mains flow rate where I am) However,
we have a rather large bath to fill, so wondering if it'll cope...

It actually works very well. We used it with the internal coil for
several weeks before I switched to an external exchanger. My reason for
switching to an exchanger was not because I wanted more capacity, but
because I knew the coil would eventually scale up (very hard well
water). With an exchanger, replacement is easy.

Thanks. Very soft water here (Southish Dartmoor) so that shouldn't be a
problem. Not a hint of scale in the kettle after nearly 3 years. Lots of
mud though and they are digging up the street again to try to fix it )-:
(at least I hope thats why they are digging up the street again /mutter)

Gordon

"Gordon Henderson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Gordon Henderson wrote:

How well did/does the internal coil work? I'm conidering such a tank
to save a bit of space. (and money) Water through the coil will come
from a loft tank and be pumped rather than mains, but the net effect
ought to be the same. (Very low mains flow rate where I am) However,
we have a rather large bath to fill, so wondering if it'll cope...

It actually works very well. We used it with the internal coil for
several weeks before I switched to an external exchanger. My reason for
switching to an exchanger was not because I wanted more capacity, but
because I knew the coil would eventually scale up (very hard well
water). With an exchanger, replacement is easy.

Thanks. Very soft water here (Southish Dartmoor) so that shouldn't be a
problem. Not a hint of scale in the kettle after nearly 3 years. Lots of
mud though and they are digging up the street again to try to fix it )-:
(at least I hope thats why they are digging up the street again /mutter)

All mains pressure appliances musty have strainers on the cold supply.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Andy Hall wrote:

You need one of those electronic things.... :-)

I was kind of inviting that response from Drevil...

--
Grunff

s--p--o--n--i--x wrote:
It may work out cheaper to get one of those little £44 generators from
Makro to run the pump on the rare occasions the mains supply goes
down.

Or as there's an LPG boiler, probably on a bombolino, a gas-powered
generator.

Owain

Doctor Evil wrote:
You don't need a thermal store. You need electric over the sink heaters
everywhere.
Can't say I've seen this solution in Ideal Homes.

Ideal Homes 1951 I think...

Do they fit neatly
between the twin 'combi's'?
Yes, right next to the cabers.

Are those the cabers you spend all your time tossing?

Owain

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:34:14 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Evil wrote:
You don't need a thermal store. You need electric over the sink heaters
everywhere. When are you going to Italy for good?

What's wrong with an undersink heater? Much neater.

His need to be over the sink. He can they put flowers on top of them.

Have you been on the pop already?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .

Up front, dIMM can **** off, I'm not interested in what he has to say.

My place in Italy is going to have several heat sources. Wood burner,
solar and possibly an LPG boiler of some sort. A thermal store therefore
seems like a good idea, particularly because SWMBO has decreed that the
ground floor *will* have underfloor heating.

However there's a weeny problem or two, both electricity and water
supplies are variable, and of course lack of availability of one has no
relationship to the other. All of the thermal stores I have looked at
are pumped, with three pumps on the majority of systems. That would mean
no hot water on days with no electricity.

Is it possible to get a thermal store that will heat the incoming cold
water mains without needing a plate exchanger?


If you have a heat exchanging coil within the higher part of the body of the
store then there is no need for a pump. Stored water systems may need a
greater diameter coil bore depending on the "head" of the storage tank. How
hard is the local water? The coil may have internal scaling problems in a
hard water area but a routine acid flush will prevent problems for some
considerable time. Suitably located valving will ease access to do this.

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:39:19 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:

If you have a heat exchanging coil within the higher part of the body of the
store then there is no need for a pump. Stored water systems may need a
greater diameter coil bore depending on the "head" of the storage tank. How
hard is the local water? The coil may have internal scaling problems in a
hard water area but a routine acid flush will prevent problems for some
considerable time. Suitably located valving will ease access to do this.

I read somewhere that as long as the temperature of the water is 60 C
or below, that scale will not precipiate of the water much.

This would explain why kettle and immersion elements scale up, but the
inside of how water pipes don't suffer nearly so badly.

Anyway came aross some links on scaling and descalers:

http://www.processingtalk.com/news/env/env100.html
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=22
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=31

They have quite an impressive client list and their site doesn't look
like a snake oil marketing job.

cheers,
Pete.

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:22:42 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:39:19 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:

If you have a heat exchanging coil within the higher part of the body of the
store then there is no need for a pump. Stored water systems may need a
greater diameter coil bore depending on the "head" of the storage tank. How
hard is the local water? The coil may have internal scaling problems in a
hard water area but a routine acid flush will prevent problems for some
considerable time. Suitably located valving will ease access to do this.

I read somewhere that as long as the temperature of the water is 60 C
or below, that scale will not precipiate of the water much.

This would explain why kettle and immersion elements scale up, but the
inside of how water pipes don't suffer nearly so badly.

Anyway came aross some links on scaling and descalers:

http://www.processingtalk.com/news/env/env100.html
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=22
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=31

They have quite an impressive client list and their site doesn't look
like a snake oil marketing job.

cheers,
Pete.


This is a wind-up right??



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Pete C" wrote in message
...

I read somewhere that as long
as the temperature of the water is 60 C
or below, that scale will not precipiate
of the water much.

This would explain why kettle and immersion elements scale up, but the
inside of how water pipes don't suffer nearly so badly.

The lower the temperature the better. Plate heat exchangers are more
efficient than immersed coils. Rule of thumb: A plate will drop the temp
about 10C. So, 70C store temp then the plate will give 60C. A coil is
about 20C. So, with a coil the store temp needs to be 20C higher. 80C
store temp, 60 DHW temp. Having a larger store, using a plate and a lower
temperature helps to reduce scale vastly.

Many combi's have scale reduction, in that the DHW temp never gets above 60C

Anyway came aross some links on scaling and descalers:

http://www.processingtalk.com/news/env/env100.html
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=22
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=31

They have quite an impressive client list and their site doesn't look
like a snake oil marketing job.

Pete, they do work. Mine does.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:
You don't need a thermal store. You need electric over the sink
heaters
everywhere.
Can't say I've seen this solution in Ideal Homes.

Ideal Homes 1951 I think...

Do they fit neatly
between the twin 'combi's'?
Yes, right next to the cabers.

Are those the cabers you spend
all your time tossing?

No, I dodge them.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:22:42 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:39:19 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:

If you have a heat exchanging coil within the higher part of the body of
the
store then there is no need for a pump. Stored water systems may need a
greater diameter coil bore depending on the "head" of the storage tank.
How
hard is the local water? The coil may have internal scaling problems in
a
hard water area but a routine acid flush will prevent problems for some
considerable time. Suitably located valving will ease access to do this.

I read somewhere that as long as the temperature of the water is 60 C
or below, that scale will not precipiate of the water much.

This would explain why kettle and immersion elements scale up, but the
inside of how water pipes don't suffer nearly so badly.

Anyway came aross some links on scaling and descalers:

http://www.processingtalk.com/news/env/env100.html
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=22
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=31

They have quite an impressive client list and their site doesn't look
like a snake oil marketing job.

This is a wind-up right??

Lord Hall, do you mean that web site is wrong and all those impressive and
highly professional companies do not use the scale reducers?


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Doctor Evil wrote:

Lord Hall, do you mean that web site is wrong and all those impressive and
highly professional companies do not use the scale reducers?

quote
Using modern microprocessors and signal processing techniques, the
Scalewatcher™ ENiGMA produces a complex, modulating frequency waveform
(which in terms of magnetic strength is insignificant). When this is
applied to the water, the energy induced in the water is sufficient to
cause the premature precipitation of the calcium. Because precipitation
occurs in the bulk of the water, the crystals seed onto other naturally
occurring ions in the water, such as zinc, copper, iron etc. Their size
and shape bear no physical resemblance to those formed in untreated
water and they remain in suspension until discharged to drain.
/quote


I don't think any more needs to be said.


--
Grunff

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:08:15 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:




Anyway came aross some links on scaling and descalers:

http://www.processingtalk.com/news/env/env100.html
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=22
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=31

They have quite an impressive client list and their site doesn't look
like a snake oil marketing job.

This is a wind-up right??

Lord Hall, do you mean that web site is wrong and all those impressive and
highly professional companies do not use the scale reducers?


You can't have worked at all of them.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:08:15 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:




Anyway came aross some links on scaling and descalers:

http://www.processingtalk.com/news/env/env100.html
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=22
http://www.electronicdescaler.com/indexx.php?id=31

They have quite an impressive client list and their site doesn't look
like a snake oil marketing job.

This is a wind-up right??

Lord Hall, do you mean that web site is wrong and all those impressive
and
highly professional companies do not use the scale reducers?

You can't have worked at all of them.

Lord Hall, many of those names spring to mind.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Steve Firth wrote:


Is it possible to get a thermal store that will heat the incoming cold
water mains without needing a plate exchanger?

This is just a quick thanks for all the replies. I've not had to time to
fully absorb every nuance but they all help with my decision making. If
I get time I'll try to reply in detail to some of the Q's.

What's the point, you will screw it up anyway.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

In your case, I would connect up the coil from the cold supply, out of
the
coil and into the plate, to the taps and back to the cold supply. Two
check
valves have to be fitted near the cold inlet and the pump is fitted near
the
cold supply to the coil. Put in an in-line restrictor on the return to
lower the flow so the flow switch does not cut in unnecessarily.


Maybe next time around. The house is now done. No more DIY for a good
few years.

If you had told me what you intended to do, then I would have advised on a
superior solution. All you had to do was ask.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account