Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!

Maria wrote:

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

They certainly now need to open wide enough to permit escape of
resident/entry of fireman in an emergency, yes - nothing specific about
a bottom opener though. There are other stipulations, and the rules are
very specific - see the building regulationss at
http://tinyurl.com/4yf4f (or
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...reg_br1015.pdf)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!

You're allowed to fit specific child safety locks to stop this
happening! There are also special hinges with over-ridable stays which
do the job.

David

Not sure about the regulations, but my fitter, on two separate jobs,
mentioned the same thing.

He fitted windows that had an opening of at least, I hope I remember
correctly, 40cm to allow for an adult to escape. They did however have a
child lock that allowed you to limit the opening to a lot less than that
(say 10cm) to allow for ventilation only.


"Maria" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!

Maria wrote:
Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

yes, it is. 'means of egress' or some such twaddle. basically if /you/ fit
a window you need BC approval but if you have it fitted by a company
they are supposed to self regulate which gives automatis approval.

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!

there are a few methods of locking windows, that's where the regs and
FENSA accreditiation is supposed to come in.


RT

In message , Maria
writes

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!

My how fast children grow up these days!!!!!!!!!!!

Children under 6 will have to be stooped climbing trees next.

Indeed young persons under 12 will have to be stooped from going to the
Scouts all by themselves after that.

When I were a boy in the war and burnt my hand on mums freshly lit fire.
her response was -- She giggled "THAT WILL TEACH YOU ROGER"

I remember it still.

Watch out Maria if your 3 year old can do as you claim what will that
young person be up to in 2 years time - NOT GETTING IN -- "YOUR"
bed!!!!!!!!!

Yours Bored
--
Roger J. P. Jones

"Maria" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!


Load of twaddle , the opening window can hinge from any point you wish as
long as it meets the required opening sizes for escape , not all upstairs
windows are required to open in this manner either

In the construction industry fensa is looked upon as a bit of a joke , a
money making scheme thought up by the glass and glazing federation so the
could achieve some importance

better speaking to your local building control who will give you all the
correct info

steve robinson wrote:
"Maria" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!


Load of twaddle , the opening window can hinge from any point you wish as
long as it meets the required opening sizes for escape.

not true, either in a practical sense or a legal one.

not all upstairs windows are required to open in this manner either

no, but the regs are there to guide people like the OP who's unsure, so
from the OPs POV it would make sense for them to adhere to the regs.

In the construction industry fensa is looked upon as a bit of a joke

*most* regulations are looked upon by the 'construction industry' as "a bit of
a joke" and (whoodathunkit) the reason we the public have such regulations
is down to the fact that X regulation "is looked upon as a bit of a joke"

like em or loathe em, regulations protect us from them (you?), geddit ?

a money making scheme thought up by the glass and glazing federation so the
could achieve some importance

or a way of ensuring that your average householder has correctly installed
windows that wont trap them and their kids in the event of a fire ?

better speaking to your local building control who will give you all the
correct info

'better speak to your BCO' to advise on 'joke' regs ? talk about confused !



RT

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:22:54 +0000, Maria wrote:

Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?


Don't know about bottom openers but building regs guy at the local
council told me that upper floor windows now had to open in a way to
allow egress. That was about 15 yrs ago.

Try free.uk.diy.home
They might know.

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:01:58 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

steve robinson wrote:
"Maria" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!


Load of twaddle , the opening window can hinge from any point you wish as
long as it meets the required opening sizes for escape.

not true, either in a practical sense or a legal one.

not all upstairs windows are required to open in this manner either

no, but the regs are there to guide people like the OP who's unsure, so
from the OPs POV it would make sense for them to adhere to the regs.

In the construction industry fensa is looked upon as a bit of a joke

*most* regulations are looked upon by the 'construction industry' as "a bit of
a joke" and (whoodathunkit) the reason we the public have such regulations
is down to the fact that X regulation "is looked upon as a bit of a joke"

like em or loathe em, regulations protect us from them (you?), geddit ?

a money making scheme thought up by the glass and glazing federation so the
could achieve some importance

or a way of ensuring that your average householder has correctly installed
windows that wont trap them and their kids in the event of a fire ?

The FENSA regulations have nothing to do with safety and everything to
do with the governments desire to be seen to be cutting greenhouse gas
emissions. The regs were introduced at the same time as the regulation
requiring you to notify the local authority if you changed your water
heating boiler. Failure to tell the nosy authoritarian *******s can
get you whopping thousands of pounds fine. Safety regs predate FENSA
by a long time.

Maria wrote:
Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!

We had the same issue. The windows had to be bottom opening as otherwise the
opening would have been to high to use as an exit.

Our builder agreed with us that making them lockable though was a good idea.
We decided that as we do not smoke, do not use a chip pan, do not have an
open fire or gas fire or gas cooker then the risk of our young child falling
out of the window was greater than the risk of a fire.

HTH

Emma

I believe it's only the bedroom windows that need to open wide enough to
allow escape. The only differecnce is in the hinge which pivots the window
close to the frame to allow more room.
You might find the regulation he


http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...reg_027756.pdf


"Maria" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!

Our builder agreed with us that making them lockable though was a good
idea. We decided that as we do not smoke, do not use a chip pan, do not
have an open fire or gas fire or gas cooker then the risk of our young
child falling out of the window was greater than the risk of a fire.

It is quite possible to have windows that comply with the regulations and
are also safe for children. Whilst the risk to your family may be low, and
I do see your point of view, building regulations are there not only to
protect you, but future owners of the property as well. When you come to
sell your house you will be obliged to sign a declaration that all work that
has been done to the standards prevailing at the time the work was done. So
then you are faced with the choice of committing perjury or having a buyer
insist the work is corrected before they will buy.

Peter Crosland

"[news]" wrote in message
...
steve robinson wrote:
"Maria" wrote in message
...
Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!


Load of twaddle , the opening window can hinge from any point you wish
as
long as it meets the required opening sizes for escape.

not true, either in a practical sense or a legal one.

wrong as long as the window sash opens in such a manner as to allow egress
meets the required opening size for a fire escapeing window it can be
hinged from any suitable position the client wishes furher the window does
not nessarily require an opening sash to comply with the regulations if an
alternative escape method is available

not all upstairs windows are required to open in this manner either

no, but the regs are there to guide people like the OP who's unsure, so
from the OPs POV it would make sense for them to adhere to the regs.

never said she should not adhere to the regs

In the construction industry fensa is looked upon as a bit of a joke

*most* regulations are looked upon by the 'construction industry' as "a
bit of
a joke" and (whoodathunkit) the reason we the public have such regulations
is down to the fact that X regulation "is looked upon as a bit of a joke"


actaully most regs are well recieved in the industry , its only cowboys you
need to be protected from



like em or loathe em, regulations protect us from them (you?), geddit ?

they protect both the consumer and tradesmen gives tradesmen a base to
quote from

a money making scheme thought up by the glass and glazing federation so
the
could achieve some importance

or a way of ensuring that your average householder has correctly installed
windows that wont trap them and their kids in the event of a fire ?

but it doesnt , the companies are self regulating which has been proven
many times not to work , the quality companies required no regulation the
cowboys only obey it when fensa wish to inspect that particular job other
than that they dont give a toss

better speaking to your local building control who will give you all the
correct info

'better speak to your BCO' to advise on 'joke' regs ? talk about confused
!

well thats only to be expected from an idiot

fensa are the joke not building regs

fensa does not garentee all work meets appropriate building regulation it
only covers the installation so that the windows reach the correct u values
not any other works required such as structural work it does not cover the
quality of hte installation either . most fensa registered companies do not
have a clue about building regulations and quote them incorrectly an
alarmly amount of times

fensa is self regualting thats why its a joke

anyone can join fensa for a large fee

most window companies do not employe qualified tradesmen (carpenters /
joiners etc) to install the units instead they use semi skilled clowns who
have not served an apprentiseship and have very little knowledge of allied
trades

steve robinson wrote:

snip confused, contradictory, badly constructed, poorly spelled/
spelt and generally hard to follow reply offering no alarmly (sic)
nessarily (sic) garentees (sic)

the prosecution gently rests it's case ;-)



RT

"[news]" wrote in message
...
steve robinson wrote:

snip confused, contradictory, badly constructed, poorly spelled/
spelt and generally hard to follow reply offering no alarmly (sic)
nessarily (sic) garentees (sic)

the prosecution gently rests it's case ;-)

Your * it's * should be * its * without the apostrophe ;-)

"[news]" wrote in message
...
steve robinson wrote:

snip confused, contradictory, badly constructed, poorly spelled/
spelt and generally hard to follow reply offering no alarmly (sic)
nessarily (sic) garentees (sic)

the prosecution gently rests it's case ;-)

In which case, we the jury find for the defence m'lord.

--

regards or otherwise,

Periander

"[news]" wrote in message
...
steve robinson wrote:

snip confused, contradictory, badly constructed, poorly spelled/
spelt and generally hard to follow reply offering no alarmly (sic)
nessarily (sic) garentees (sic)

the prosecution gently rests it's case ;-)



RT

unfortunately I sent the draft version in error

Helen wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
...
steve robinson wrote:

snip confused, contradictory, badly constructed, poorly spelled/
spelt and generally hard to follow reply offering no alarmly (sic)
nessarily (sic) garentees (sic)

the prosecution gently rests it's case ;-)

Your * it's * should be * its * without the apostrophe ;-)

quite right.

in mitigation I respectfully point m'learned friend to the bottle of malt to my right.



RT

Maria wrote:

Hi

I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which
claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to
have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.

Can anyone advise if this is true please?

Yes. More or less. One window per room needs IIRC 600mm clear opening width.

Thanks.

(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom
openers for fire escape)

PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a
kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening
if he had half a chance!

Roger J. P. Jones wrote:

When I were a boy in the war and burnt my hand on mums freshly lit fire.
her response was -- She giggled "THAT WILL TEACH YOU ROGER"

Watch out Maria if your 3 year old can do as you claim what will that
young person be up to in 2 years time - NOT GETTING IN -- "YOUR"
bed!!!!!!!!!

Not sure her bed has to do with anything, but I gather that as Maria's
toddler plummets earthwards from the 1st floor window, you expect her to
giggle "THAT WILL TEACH YOU!!"

Nice one, Roger.

David

Lobster wrote:

Roger J. P. Jones wrote:

When I were a boy in the war and burnt my hand on mums freshly lit fire.
her response was -- She giggled "THAT WILL TEACH YOU ROGER"


Watch out Maria if your 3 year old can do as you claim what will that
young person be up to in 2 years time - NOT GETTING IN -- "YOUR"
bed!!!!!!!!!


Not sure her bed has to do with anything, but I gather that as Maria's
toddler plummets earthwards from the 1st floor window, you expect her to
giggle "THAT WILL TEACH YOU!!"


So it will, so it will.

Nice one, Roger.


Indeed.

David

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Lobster wrote:

Roger J. P. Jones wrote:

When I were a boy in the war and burnt my hand on mums freshly lit
fire.
her response was -- She giggled "THAT WILL TEACH YOU ROGER"

Watch out Maria if your 3 year old can do as you claim what will
that young person be up to in 2 years time - NOT GETTING IN --
"YOUR" bed!!!!!!!!!
Not sure her bed has to do with anything, but I gather that as
Maria's toddler plummets earthwards from the 1st floor window, you
expect her to giggle "THAT WILL TEACH YOU!!"


So it will, so it will.

Nice one, Roger.


Indeed.

David

children!!!! Now calm down!

THINK!!! (once!)

THEN THINK AGAIN.

THEN --- ONLY THEN - OPEN YOU SO YOUNG TRAPS!!!

"CONSIDER YET AGAIN YOUNG PERSONS"

RJ`s input---

Watch out Maria if your 3 year old can do as you claim what will
that young person be up to in 2 years time - NOT GETTING IN --
"YOUR" bed!!!!!!!!!

Now do that before Daddy gets home.

did you hear me!!! (Stop playing with dummy Jonathan!!!)

Yours bored.
--
Roger J. P. Jones

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:46:21 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

Our builder agreed with us that making them lockable though was a good
idea. We decided that as we do not smoke, do not use a chip pan, do not
have an open fire or gas fire or gas cooker then the risk of our young
child falling out of the window was greater than the risk of a fire.

It is quite possible to have windows that comply with the regulations and
are also safe for children. Whilst the risk to your family may be low, and
I do see your point of view, building regulations are there not only to
protect you, but future owners of the property as well. When you come to
sell your house you will be obliged to sign a declaration that all work that
has been done to the standards prevailing at the time the work was done. So
then you are faced with the choice of committing perjury or having a buyer
insist the work is corrected before they will buy.

But building regs, if I remember correctly, only *require* these as a
means of escape in certain circumstances (specifically, if your
staircase doesn't lead directly outside without passing through a
"room"). They are only recommended in other situations (I know because
we had a choice of putting in the windows, or changing our open-plan
downstairs).
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)