I'm confused (not the first time)....but what are the basics of new legislation coming up for DIY. I have just completed my second bathroom - totally ripped-out, moved the location of the sanitaryware around a bit, re plumbed crappy pipework and put in a new towel rad and new bath, basin and lav........I'm no expert, but I think I know my way around the basics (most fo the time).

My brother wants to do the same to his house and has asked me to help. Am I no longer allowed to do this for him? Or do I have to get a Buildings Insepctor down once the work is completed (or semi completed). (And what will happen if I dont????)

Needless to say, I wont touch gas - but when it comes to power showers, shaving sockets and lighting am I forbidden from DIY-ing these

Thereare so many threads on this I'm struggling to find the simplest and most definitive answer.

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 18:00:42 +0000, alexbartman wrote:


I'm confused (not the first time)....but what are the basics of new
legislation coming up for DIY. I have just completed my second
bathroom - totally ripped-out, moved the location of the sanitaryware
around a bit, re plumbed crappy pipework and put in a new towel rad and
new bath, basin and lav........I'm no expert, but I think I know my way
around the basics (most fo the time).

My brother wants to do the same to his house and has asked me to help.
Am I no longer allowed to do this for him?

You are allowed, subject to below:

Or do I have to get a
Buildings Insepctor down once the work is completed (or semi
completed).

Yes - in fact you need to write up and submit a Building Notice
Application (BNA) 48 hours before you start. The Building Control Officer
(BCO) will advise about visits, but you may begin the work after 48 hours.

Unless you already started the work *cough* before Dec 31st 2004, in
which case you have the rest of March to finish it...

(And what will happen if I dont????)

Probably not much. Technically it's a criminal offence leading to a max
5000GBP fine, but the council only have 6 months to get this to court.

There are scaremonger wibblings about it being difficult to sell the house
down the line, but I think that's a load of b*ll*cks. It might invalidate
his house/contents insurnace though - so best read the small print.

Might not look good if he needs building control for a bigger project in
the future though, if you've obviously taken the mick by ignoring
building control. Assuming they can spot any new work...

Needless to say, I wont touch gas

Which, somewhat perversly, you still can without telling anyone, unless
it's for hire or reward, then you need to be CORGI registered...

- but when it comes to power showers,
shaving sockets and lighting am I forbidden from DIY-ing these

Of course not. You just have to invoke a layer of beaurocracy and cough
up 120 odd quid, plus maybe get an inspection done at the end.

Thereare so many threads on this I'm struggling to find the simplest
and most definitive answer.

That's it in a nutshell...

There are "non notifiable" works, eg spur or changing fittings like for
like, but these exemptions don't apply in the bathroom (and some
other areas).

Tim

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 23:07:09 +0000, Tim S wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 18:00:42 +0000, alexbartman wrote:


I'm confused (not the first time)....but what are the basics of new
legislation coming up for DIY. I have just completed my second
bathroom - totally ripped-out, moved the location of the sanitaryware
around a bit, re plumbed crappy pipework and put in a new towel rad and
new bath, basin and lav........I'm no expert, but I think I know my way
around the basics (most fo the time).

My brother wants to do the same to his house and has asked me to help.
Am I no longer allowed to do this for him?


Bugger, It's too late - what I wrote applies to electrics. Got Part P on
the brain...

You need a BNA (or more) in general for electrics (Part P),
changing windows (Part L) and definately anything structural, eg moving a
door in a load bearing wall. And foul water drains outside. Technically.
And possibly lots of other things. But not interior DIY in general,
subject to what I have mentioned. Just pay attention to the equipotential
bonding in the new revised bathroom - it's quite important you don't cock
it up or you can create a dangerous situation.

You are allowed, subject to below:

If you are somehow not touching the electrics and are leaving the window
alone, I don't think you need any building control. Water plumbing's not
regulated yet.

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
news
Needless to say, I wont touch gas

Which, somewhat perversly, you still can without telling anyone, unless
it's for hire or reward, then you need to be CORGI registered...

But you still need to tell your BCO so it's really the same as Part P only
BCOs seem qualified to check gas whereas they seem to want to hire in people
for electricity.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:14:31 +0000, Mike wrote:


"Tim S" wrote in message
news
Needless to say, I wont touch gas

Which, somewhat perversly, you still can without telling anyone, unless
it's for hire or reward, then you need to be CORGI registered...

But you still need to tell your BCO so it's really the same as Part P only
BCOs seem qualified to check gas whereas they seem to want to hire in people
for electricity.

Really? I hadn't come across that, then I haven't tried installing gas,
though when my Dad did so, he ran the pipe, tested it and asked the Gas
Board ('twas a long time ago) to come and connect to the meter. They
tested it again and did so. Do you know which section that comes under?

Cheers

Tim

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:00:42 +0000, alexbartman wrote:


I'm confused (not the first time)....but what are the basics of new
legislation coming up for DIY. I have just completed my second
bathroom - totally ripped-out, moved the location of the sanitaryware
around a bit, re plumbed crappy pipework and put in a new towel rad and
new bath, basin and lav........I'm no expert, but I think I know my way
around the basics (most fo the time).

My brother wants to do the same to his house and has asked me to help.
Am I no longer allowed to do this for him? Or do I have to get a
Buildings Insepctor down once the work is completed (or semi
completed). (And what will happen if I dont????)

Needless to say, I wont touch gas - but when it comes to power showers,
shaving sockets and lighting am I forbidden from DIY-ing these

Thereare so many threads on this I'm struggling to find the simplest
and most definitive answer.

In theory, you need to jump through BCO hoops. In practice, unless there is any way anybody could
prove it was done after the end of last year, just go ahead and do it.
As long as it is done competently, there is zero chance of any consequences. Discard all receipts.

In article , Tim S wrote:
There are scaremonger wibblings about it being difficult to sell
the house down the line, but I think that's a load of b*ll*cks.

We've just sold a flat which had new windows last year and the
solicitors went to town on the FENSA paperwork - if we'd not been
able to produce it I doubt whether it would have stopped the sale
but would probably have been used to force a price reduction. It may
be a bit different with electrics if there's nothing to show when
the work was done and you don't fess up.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:04:45 +0000, Tony Bryer wrote:

In article , Tim S wrote:
There are scaremonger wibblings about it being difficult to sell
the house down the line, but I think that's a load of b*ll*cks.

We've just sold a flat which had new windows last year and the
solicitors went to town on the FENSA paperwork - if we'd not been
able to produce it I doubt whether it would have stopped the sale
but would probably have been used to force a price reduction. It may
be a bit different with electrics if there's nothing to show when
the work was done and you don't fess up.

I suppose a surveyor worth his salt might look sufficiently closely at a
few bits of electrics to spot the odd tell tale date stamp on the plastic,
as some products have. Not that it proves anything, unless he finds it in
the bathroom, kitchen or CU to name a few non-exempted places/things.

I think as a buyer, I'd be happy to hear any suspicions my surveyor had,
but by and large I wouldn't expect to ask my solicitor to chase it -
waste of my money, as long as the work looks basically up to par. After a
couple of transfers of property ownership, missing paperwork doesn't prove
very much IMO. When I sold my flat, (3rd owner since new) I was asked for
the electrical installation certificate (we're talking about Ideal Homes
here).

I told them it didn't exist and that was the end of that.

You're right, though, buyer's are always looking for an angle to haggle.
Can't blame them... But it has to be a good angle before I'll give in,
depending on whether I'm pressured to sell quickly or not and how many
other people are interested in the property.

Cheers

Tim

In article ,
Tony Bryer writes:
In article , Tim S wrote:
There are scaremonger wibblings about it being difficult to sell
the house down the line, but I think that's a load of b*ll*cks.

We've just sold a flat which had new windows last year and the
solicitors went to town on the FENSA paperwork - if we'd not been
able to produce it I doubt whether it would have stopped the sale
but would probably have been used to force a price reduction. It may
be a bit different with electrics if there's nothing to show when
the work was done and you don't fess up.

My impression (from a rather small sample of various colleagues
moving) is that for the year after Part L came in, all the solicitors
were asking for all the details. However, in the last year, most of
the building control related questions seem to have vanished -- two
of them were both asked specifically only about any structural changes
and any changes to underground drains they'd done (none in either case).
Maybe it depends on the buyer's solicitors, and/or any questions the
buyers mortgage company specifically ask, which may in turn depend on
the percentage mortgage?

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tony Bryer writes:
In article , Tim S wrote:
There are scaremonger wibblings about it being difficult to sell
the house down the line, but I think that's a load of b*ll*cks.

We've just sold a flat which had new windows last year and the
solicitors went to town on the FENSA paperwork - if we'd not been
able to produce it I doubt whether it would have stopped the sale
but would probably have been used to force a price reduction.

Recently viewed a house up for sale ...
the stair case had no spindles at all ... just banister rails
up the side stair, half landing and landing area ... never mind
about a 100 mm ball passing through ... one could have
passed a one-metre beach-ball through! But, not a mention
by the estate-agent.. The house 'went' at the full asking-price!

--

Brian

Brian Sharrock wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tony Bryer writes:
In article , Tim S wrote:
There are scaremonger wibblings about it being difficult to sell
the house down the line, but I think that's a load of b*ll*cks.

We've just sold a flat which had new windows last year and the
solicitors went to town on the FENSA paperwork - if we'd not been
able to produce it I doubt whether it would have stopped the sale
but would probably have been used to force a price reduction.

Recently viewed a house up for sale ...
the stair case had no spindles at all ... just banister rails
up the side stair, half landing and landing area ... never mind
about a 100 mm ball passing through ... one could have
passed a one-metre beach-ball through! But, not a mention
by the estate-agent.. The house 'went' at the full asking-price!

Probably sold to people without children. Either that or they were keen
DIY'ers (I'm doing similar job tomorrow!) or just were happy to pay someone
to fix it after they moved in.

David

"Tim S" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:14:31 +0000, Mike wrote:


"Tim S" wrote in message
news
Needless to say, I wont touch gas

Which, somewhat perversly, you still can without telling anyone, unless
it's for hire or reward, then you need to be CORGI registered...

But you still need to tell your BCO so it's really the same as Part P
only
BCOs seem qualified to check gas whereas they seem to want to hire in
people
for electricity.

Really? I hadn't come across that, then I haven't tried installing gas,
though when my Dad did so, he ran the pipe, tested it and asked the Gas
Board

('twas a long time ago)

Indeed it was. I'm afraid for oil and gas (unless you are OFTEC or CORGI
registered) the BCO now has to inspect before the commissioning document you
must submit can even be filled in to send to him.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:55:00 +0000, Mike wrote:


('twas a long time ago)

Indeed it was. I'm afraid for oil and gas (unless you are OFTEC or CORGI
registered) the BCO now has to inspect before the commissioning document you
must submit can even be filled in to send to him.

Well, thanks for enlightening me.

It was definitely better when we had proper single-function utility
companies. They'd often check the installation for nowt and at least you
were more likely to have a specialist looking at your handiwork rather
than some overworked poor BCO trying to keep abreast of the regulations
covering everything.

Now it's 100+VAT for everything... Where did it all go wrong...

Shakes Head

Tim

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:36:58 +0000, Tim S wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:14:31 +0000, Mike wrote:


"Tim S" wrote in message
news
Needless to say, I wont touch gas

Which, somewhat perversly, you still can without telling anyone, unless
it's for hire or reward, then you need to be CORGI registered...

But you still need to tell your BCO so it's really the same as Part P only
BCOs seem qualified to check gas whereas they seem to want to hire in people
for electricity.

Really? I hadn't come across that, then I haven't tried installing gas,
though when my Dad did so, he ran the pipe, tested it and asked the Gas
Board ('twas a long time ago) to come and connect to the meter. They
tested it again and did so. Do you know which section that comes under?


See the FAQ.

However do note that installing a boiler comes under the building regs
Part J IIRC as part of heating regs.

CORGI members may self certify compliance on the commissioning log book.
The only impact of not having this paperwork would be a zealous solicitor
and.or a wriggling boiler manufacturer who want to disown a warranty claim.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 21:14:14 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:36:58 +0000, Tim S wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:14:31 +0000, Mike wrote:


"Tim S" wrote in message
news Needless to say, I wont touch gas

Which, somewhat perversly, you still can without telling anyone, unless
it's for hire or reward, then you need to be CORGI registered...

But you still need to tell your BCO so it's really the same as Part P only
BCOs seem qualified to check gas whereas they seem to want to hire in people
for electricity.

Really? I hadn't come across that, then I haven't tried installing gas,
though when my Dad did so, he ran the pipe, tested it and asked the Gas
Board ('twas a long time ago) to come and connect to the meter. They
tested it again and did so. Do you know which section that comes under?


See the FAQ.

Will do, thanks.

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:55:00 +0000, Mike wrote:


('twas a long time ago)

Indeed it was. I'm afraid for oil and gas (unless you are OFTEC or
CORGI
registered) the BCO now has to inspect before the commissioning document
you
must submit can even be filled in to send to him.

Well, thanks for enlightening me.

It was definitely better when we had proper single-function utility
companies. They'd often check the installation for nowt and at least you
were more likely to have a specialist looking at your handiwork rather
than some overworked poor BCO trying to keep abreast of the regulations
covering everything.

Now it's 100+VAT for everything... Where did it all go wrong...

When Part P cam out and some people here have founf the £100+VAT appears to
have turned into a lot lot more.

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Tony Bryer writes:
In article , Tim S wrote:
There are scaremonger wibblings about it being difficult to sell
the house down the line, but I think that's a load of b*ll*cks.

We've just sold a flat which had new windows last year and the
solicitors went to town on the FENSA paperwork - if we'd not been
able to produce it I doubt whether it would have stopped the sale
but would probably have been used to force a price reduction. It may
be a bit different with electrics if there's nothing to show when
the work was done and you don't fess up.

My impression (from a rather small sample of various colleagues
moving) is that for the year after Part L came in, all the solicitors
were asking for all the details. However, in the last year, most of
the building control related questions seem to have vanished -- two
of them were both asked specifically only about any structural changes
and any changes to underground drains they'd done (none in either case).
Maybe it depends on the buyer's solicitors, and/or any questions the
buyers mortgage company specifically ask, which may in turn depend on
the percentage mortgage?

We are in the middle of buying and selling, both the information form
that we filled in, and the one the sellers of the house we are buying
filled in had questions regarding FENSA paperwork for windows and one
asking about BRA for any electrical work carried out after Jan 1 2005,
as well as general ones about any alterations/conversions etc. and any
necessary consents, BRA etc. for them.

Then again, our buyers solictor has asked us if we have BRA paperwork
for the carport put up in 1965 by the previous owner...... FGS, they did
a big extension, new garage and I guess the carport all together almost
40 years ago - who gives a toss now?

On this point, is there some limit (I assume there is) on the time after
works are done when any action or enforcement can be taken against you
for not complying with building regs (or for that matter planning regs)
--
Chris French, Leeds