My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink has
just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the sink when
draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a blockage
between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the overflow
to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.

I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he

http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html

... is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative approaches
I could use? TIA.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

"Abso" wrote in message
...
My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink has
just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the sink when
draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a blockage
between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the overflow
to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.

I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he

http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html

.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative approaches
I could use? TIA.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

I used the active foamer recently on the sink in the bathroom, and it worked
very well.

ajg_xch wrote:

"Abso" wrote in message
...
My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink
has just almost flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the
sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a
blockage between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the
overflow to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.

I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he

http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html

.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative
approaches I could use? TIA.

Snip

I used the active foamer recently on the sink in the bathroom, and it
worked very well.

Thanks. Does it provide for more than one application, or is the idea
that you bung it all down there at once?

I'm not sure whether the active foamer or the sink + plughole unblocker
is the best option. Mr Muscle says that you only use the s+p unblocker
when there is a total blockage but in my case the sink takes 10 mins to
drain from full. I'm not sure if that qualifies as merely slow
draining or a total block. The former I suppose.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Abso wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink
has just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the
sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a
blockage between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the overflow
to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.

I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he

http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html

.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative approaches
I could use? TIA.

Chemicals sometimes work, but it's often a lot quicker to dismantle the
traps and wastepipes (unless they're solvent welded) and clean them out
properly. It's a messy job, but should last a while once done.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"Abso" wrote
| My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen
| sink has just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of
| overfilling the sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but
| that tells me there's a blockage between the sink and the
| main drain.
| I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a
| syringe type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the
| overflow (straight down my shirt, lovely). I can't think
| of a way to block the overflow to increase the pressure

Someone else holding a wet rag firmly over the overflow hole whilst you
attend to the plug hole.

| so I'm looking for alternatives.
| I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he
| http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html
| .. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative approaches
| I could use? TIA.

They are effective if the blockage is in the sink trap. They are not as much
use if the blockage is further down.

Owain

Set Square wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Abso wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink
has just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the
sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a
blockage between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the overflow
to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.

I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he

http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html

.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative
approaches I could use? TIA.

Chemicals sometimes work, but it's often a lot quicker to dismantle
the traps and wastepipes (unless they're solvent welded) and clean
them out properly. It's a messy job, but should last a while once
done.

These 'Mr Muscle' products are probably all based on sodium carbonate and
sodium hydroxide, which are available at a tenth of the price which they
charge. Are you sure the slow draining isn't caused by a blockage in the
outside drains? Is you toilet water level low- this is often a clue. Have
a look in the manholes outside. On three occasions, I've had similar
problems and the problem was in the outside drains - a blockage in next
door's manhole, which was communal to 7 properties, and probably due to
disposable nappies - the smell was horrendous. The solution was achieved by
using drain rods and later a pressure washer with a back-flush attachment.
If this is your problem, Mr Muscle is a waste of time. The local council
used to do this job free of charge but sadly no longer.

Terry D.

"Abso" wrote in message
...
..

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the overflow
to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.


With many types of overflow design, the traditional way to block them up,
whilst using a plunger over the plug hole, is to ram a damp cloth into the
overflow - often works remarkably well.

Cycle wrote:


"Abso" wrote in message
...
.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the
overflow to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.


With many types of overflow design, the traditional way to block them
up, whilst using a plunger over the plug hole, is to ram a damp cloth
into the overflow - often works remarkably well.

Sadly I don't think that will work as this is a stainless steel sink
with simple slots cut into the rear - 4 slots of approx 5mm wide by
30mm long.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Abso wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink
has just almost flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the
sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a
blockage between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the
overflow to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.

I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he

http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html

.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative
approaches I could use? TIA.

Chemicals sometimes work, but it's often a lot quicker to dismantle
the traps and wastepipes (unless they're solvent welded) and clean
them out properly. It's a messy job, but should last a while once
done.

I'll have a look at doing this. I'm sure I can get the sink trap off
but I suspect the block is in the drain pipe leading away from the sink
and I can only get to one end of this.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

Terry D wrote:

Set Square wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Abso wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink
has just almost flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the
sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a
blockage between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow
(straight down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block
the overflow to increase the pressure so I'm looking for
alternatives.

I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he

http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html

.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative
approaches I could use? TIA.

Chemicals sometimes work, but it's often a lot quicker to dismantle
the traps and wastepipes (unless they're solvent welded) and clean
them out properly. It's a messy job, but should last a while once
done.

These 'Mr Muscle' products are probably all based on sodium carbonate
and sodium hydroxide, which are available at a tenth of the price
which they charge. Are you sure the slow draining isn't caused by a
blockage in the outside drains? Is you toilet water level low- this
is often a clue.

I think it's local to the kitchen sink. The toilet, bathroom sink and
bath are all draining ok.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

Owain wrote:

"Abso" wrote
My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen
sink has just almost flooded the kitchen by means of
overfilling the sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but
that tells me there's a blockage between the sink and the
main drain.
I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a
syringe type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the
overflow (straight down my shirt, lovely). I can't think
of a way to block the overflow to increase the pressure

Someone else holding a wet rag firmly over the overflow hole whilst
you attend to the plug hole.

Or for a loner like me perhaps a wet rag held over the overflow with
one foot whilst the other stands on the floor and I plunger the sink
for all it's worth. I'll either discover muscles I never knew I had,
or get acquainted with A&E at the local hospital.

so I'm looking for alternatives.
I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he
http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html
.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative
approaches I could use? TIA.

They are effective if the blockage is in the sink trap. They are not
as much use if the blockage is further down.

I think it's further down.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

On 6 Jun 2004 17:25:40 GMT, "Abso" wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink has
just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the sink when
draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a blockage
between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the overflow
to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.

Hi,

Why is it difficult to block the overflow, would another plunger/coke
bottle end do it?

I've had good results unblocking a kitchen sink pipe by drilling a
1/16" hole in the pipe in a suitable place, threading in some wire
with a spiral end to clear the blockage, then taping over the hole
with aluminium tape.

I've also unblocked a shower drain with a steamer, but it needs some
care.

cheers,
Pete.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Abso" wrote
| My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen
| sink has just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of
| overfilling the sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but
| that tells me there's a blockage between the sink and the
| main drain.
| I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a
| syringe type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the
| overflow (straight down my shirt, lovely). I can't think
| of a way to block the overflow to increase the pressure

Someone else holding a wet rag firmly over the overflow hole whilst you
attend to the plug hole.

| so I'm looking for alternatives.
| I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he
| http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html
| .. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative approaches
| I could use? TIA.

They are effective if the blockage is in the sink trap. They are not as
much
use if the blockage is further down.

Go to Plumbase and ask for the strong "One Shot" drain cleaner... officially
only sold to the "trade" (whatever that is) and comes with all sorts of dire
H&S warnings.
Basically its 80%+ H2SO4 and will shift most things; inc presumably cast
iron drains :-)

"Abso" wrote
| I think it's further down.

A Wire Snaky Thing (tm) from a plumber's merchant may be what you need.

Owain

On 6 Jun 2004 19:54:52 GMT, "Abso" wrote:



I'll have a look at doing this. I'm sure I can get the sink trap off
but I suspect the block is in the drain pipe leading away from the sink
and I can only get to one end of this.

It's caused by washing machines these days going all green and using
lower water temperatures and less water. The result is a build up on
the drain pipes of a grey sticky goo made up of discarded skin and,
if you have children, you don't want to know what else.

It's quite easily shifted by Caustic Soda or any of the proprietary
cleaners and they are far easier to use than dismantling the whole
thing. It will recur about every 6 to 18 months if you don't
remember to pour about a pint of caustic soda solution down the
Washing machine drain pipe every now and again.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Set Square" wrote in message ...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Abso wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink
has just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the
sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a
blockage between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the overflow
to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.

I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he

http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html

.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative approaches
I could use? TIA.

Chemicals sometimes work, but it's often a lot quicker to dismantle the
traps and wastepipes (unless they're solvent welded) and clean them out
properly. It's a messy job, but should last a while once done.

Yes dismantling and cleaning is the 100% effectice route and the
cheapest .Other routes are netcurtain wire type devices problem with
these is that hard to clear the whole diameter of the pipe. for
blocking up the overflow when plunging try gaffa/duct tape then hold a
folded up cloth over the overflow again the problem is clearing the
whole bore of the pipe

If you dismantle check the ends of the pipes for swarf from when they
were cut as these can be the start of a build up ,its easy when the
pipes are dismantled to run a sharp knife round to remove the swarf.
Also remember up you are going to dismantle to empty the sink as much
as you can before removing the trap also have a bucket/washing up bowl
under the trap be prepared for a stink tho :-)

If you have a bottle trap consider replacing with a p trap, bottle
traps are just a plain pain in the butt for blockages

Steve

Abso wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink
has just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the
sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a
blockage between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the overflow
to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.
snip


Often all thats neeed is some caustic soda. I put a cupful in the
sink, over the plug hole, and poured some boiling water on it. Its
very effective, but !beware! It spits alkali, and the spit drops can
do your eyes a serious and nasty injury. I did it facing the other
way, and did _not_ turn to look. Never do this, ever. It didnt occur
to me till later that one moment of forgetful turn around...


Regards, NT

On 6 Jun 2004 14:30:34 -0700, (N. Thornton) wrote:


Often all thats neeed is some caustic soda. I put a cupful in the
sink, over the plug hole, and poured some boiling water on it.

With respect that is a really silly idea - when caustic soda
dissolves the reaction is strongly exothermic - it generates a lot of
heat. Pouring near boiling water on it is not sensible as you get an
immediate boiling mass of concentrated caustic soda.

Its very effective,

Indeed - but it is equally effective if made up following the
destructions on the container and a damn sight safer.

but !beware! It spits alkali, and the spit drops can
do your eyes a serious and nasty injury.

There is no can about it - boiling concentrated caustic soda will
blind you very quickly. Alkali burns from caustic soda are _always_
worse than they look and should always be treated as emergencies and
the victim taken to hospital after rapid first aid of complete
irrigation of the eye with copious amounts of water.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Abso wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink has
just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the sink when
draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a blockage
between the sink and the main drain.

I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a syringe
type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the overflow (straight
down my shirt, lovely). I can't think of a way to block the overflow
to increase the pressure so I'm looking for alternatives.

I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details he

http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html

.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative approaches
I could use? TIA.


Chepaaer is to get some caustic soda - not washing soda - and dribble it
down the plughole.

Then pour a kettle of hot water down.

And stand clear of the corrosive fuming boiling mess that results.

A few doses of this usually does teh trick.

I will not get flamed by people telling you how dangerous this is. Which
it is. Don't let it spalsh in your eyes, and wear old clothing.

Wash any splashes off with cold water ASDAP as it does sting a little,
and can leave a bit of a moinor burn if you leave it. Its very bad for
eyes tho.

Peter Parry wrote:

On 6 Jun 2004 14:30:34 -0700, (N. Thornton) wrote:



Often all thats neeed is some caustic soda. I put a cupful in the
sink, over the plug hole, and poured some boiling water on it.


With respect that is a really silly idea - when caustic soda
dissolves the reaction is strongly exothermic - it generates a lot of
heat. Pouring near boiling water on it is not sensible as you get an
immediate boiling mass of concentrated caustic soda.


Its very effective,


Indeed - but it is equally effective if made up following the
destructions on the container and a damn sight safer.


but !beware! It spits alkali, and the spit drops can
do your eyes a serious and nasty injury.


There is no can about it - boiling concentrated caustic soda will
blind you very quickly. Alkali burns from caustic soda are _always_
worse than they look and should always be treated as emergencies and
the victim taken to hospital after rapid first aid of complete
irrigation of the eye with copious amounts of water.


Eyes yes, but skin burns are nothing. I have had dozens of minor caustic
spalshes and never once went to hospital.

For eyes, its a question of massive and immediate dilution. Time is of
the essence. Don't rush to A & E, get the eye washed with clean cold
water again and again and THEN get to A & E. But they won't do anything
much more than wash it again. If its damaged, its damaged, and the only
treatment is something to stop it hurting ad keep infection at bay, and
hope it heals itself.

Abso wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink has
just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the sink when
draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a blockage
between the sink and the main drain.

FWIW, We are totally re-furb'ing our 1970's house.
In the process of removing all plumbing and waste pipes from sink, we
found the problem of slowly draining sink caused by a 97% blocked waste
pipe from the sink to the soil pipe, this was over the entire length (a
good 4m of pipe)!

No drian cleaner or other would have cleaned that lot out, and the smell
was beyound belief!

Has anyone tried "jet blasting" heavily soiled waste pipes?



--
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Pet wrote in message ...
FWIW, We are totally re-furb'ing our 1970's house.
In the process of removing all plumbing and waste pipes from sink, we
found the problem of slowly draining sink caused by a 97% blocked waste
pipe from the sink to the soil pipe, this was over the entire length (a
good 4m of pipe)!

No drian cleaner or other would have cleaned that lot out, and the smell
was beyound belief!

Has anyone tried "jet blasting" heavily soiled waste pipes?

Not as bad as you, but I had about 50cm of solid dark brown sludge in
my kitchen waste and about 20cm of grey sludge in my separate w/m
waste. Tried coat hanger, plumber's snake - the sludge was too
compacted. I ended up disassembling the pipes (in one case having to
cut open a solvent-welded joint) and scraping it out with a knife
until I could get a coat hanger through it. Then stuck the garden
hose down for 10 mins until it ran clear at the outlet.

I did see several sulphiric acid drain-clear profucts, but was too
scared to try them.

One lesson - if I ever I install a kitchen or w/m waste system I'll
try to put in several access points for "rodding".

John

Pet wrote in message ...
FWIW, We are totally re-furb'ing our 1970's house.
In the process of removing all plumbing and waste pipes from sink, we
found the problem of slowly draining sink caused by a 97% blocked waste
pipe from the sink to the soil pipe, this was over the entire length (a
good 4m of pipe)!

No drian cleaner or other would have cleaned that lot out, and the smell
was beyound belief!

Has anyone tried "jet blasting" heavily soiled waste pipes?

Not as bad as you, but I had about 50cm of solid dark brown sludge in
my kitchen waste and about 20cm of grey sludge in my separate w/m
waste. Tried coat hanger, plumber's snake - the sludge was too
compacted. I ended up disassembling the pipes (in one case having to
cut open a solvent-welded joint) and scraping it out with a knife
until I could get a coat hanger through it. Then stuck the garden
hose down for 10 mins until it ran clear at the outlet.

I did see several sulphiric acid drain-clear profucts, but was too
scared to try them.

One lesson - if I ever I install a kitchen or w/m waste system I'll
try to put in several access points for "rodding".

John

Pet wrote:
Abso wrote:

My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen sink has
just *almost* flooded the kitchen by means of overfilling the sink when
draining. Now I'm no expert, but that tells me there's a blockage
between the sink and the main drain.


FWIW, We are totally re-furb'ing our 1970's house.
In the process of removing all plumbing and waste pipes from sink, we
found the problem of slowly draining sink caused by a 97% blocked waste
pipe from the sink to the soil pipe, this was over the entire length (a
good 4m of pipe)!

No drian cleaner or other would have cleaned that lot out, and the smell
was beyound belief!

You would be surprised.

Once any caustic gets in to that section, it eats away at the muck. Then
the flow rate goes up, and any loose stuff is washed away . Further
applications of caustic then get into the mess at high strength, and
start to boil and gas there blowing still further amounts of sludge in
both directions.

If there is ANY flow at all, hot caustic is the first technique to try.



Has anyone tried "jet blasting" heavily soiled waste pipes?

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:37:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Eyes yes, but skin burns are nothing. I have had dozens of minor caustic
spalshes and never once went to hospital.

My comment referred to eye injuries, I did not make that clear.

For eyes, its a question of massive and immediate dilution. Time is of
the essence. Don't rush to A & E, get the eye washed with clean cold
water again and again and THEN get to A & E.

I agree, you should wash the eye (as in let the water from a running
tap pour over the eyeball not just dribble a bit of water in) for at
least 20 minutes and ideally continue to provide some irrigation for
the journey to hospital. At A&E any alkali eye burns should be
referred to an ophthalmologist either immediately or, for mild burns,
within 24 hours. Acid burns look much worse than alkali burns
initially but are (with the notable exception of hydrofluoric acid)
generally far less damaging than alkali burns.

Caustic Soda dissociates into a hydroxyl ion and a cation in the eye
surface. The hydroxyl ion saponifies cell membrane fatty acids, while
the cation interacts with stromal collagen and glycosaminoglycans.
This interaction helps the caustic soda penetrate deeper into and
through the cornea and into the anterior segment of the eye.

This results in corneal clouding. Collagen hydration causes fibril
distortion and shortening, leading to increased intraocular pressure.
Additionally, the inflammatory agents released during this process
stimulate the release of prostaglandins, which can further increase
in intraocular pressure.

The combination of scarring, tissue damage and raised pressure in the
eyeball make opthalmic follow-up essential. As an aside the most
dangerous alkali as far as eye damage is concerned is Ammonia.
Liquified Ammonia gas (anhydrous ammonia) is used in the USA as a
fertiliser, it is directly injected into the soil, and a number of
agricultural workers are blinded every year in accidents with it.

But they won't do anything much more than wash it again.
If its damaged, its damaged, and the only
treatment is something to stop it hurting ad keep infection at bay, and
hope it heals itself.

Not so. Apart from irrigation, treatment of opthalmic alkali burns
would comprise:-

Control of inflammation to reduce the secondary effects of the
damage. Topical steroids are useful during the early recovery phase.
Cycloplegics also reduce inflammation by stabilising the
blood-aqueous barrier.

Prevention of infection: The corneal epithelium serves as a barrier
to infection. When this layer is absent, the eye is susceptible to
infection.

Reduce intraocular pressu Aqueous suppressants are used to reduce
IOP secondary to chemical injuries, both as an initial therapy and
during the later recovery phase.

Promotion of epithelial healing: Chemically injured eyes have a
tendency to poorly produce adequate tears; therefore, artificial tear
supplements play an important role in healing.

Control pain: Severe chemical burns can be extremely painful.

Ophthalmic referral for even seemingly minor burns is quite usual as
they can be far worse than they look.

As we both agree - keeping it out of the eye in the first place is a
really good idea. The danger of putting caustic soda in crystalline
form down a sink and then adding water is that in the process of
dissolving the caustic soda generates a lot of heat. In a sink drain
this can easily be enough to cause the concentrated solution to boil
and there is nowhere for the steam pressure to go which results in it
exploding the caustic liquid violently upwards out of the drain and
forwards out of the overflow.

Mixing the caustic soda properly and pouring the resultant liquor
down the drain is equally effective as far as clearing the drain is
concerned and far less risky. I agree its also a lot less exciting -
but with some things being boring is quite sufficient thank you :-)..

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


If there is ANY flow at all, hot caustic is the first technique to try.

I'll remember that, though our plumber is doing the long run in 2" pipe
just to ensure a good flow.


--
http://gymratz.co.uk - UK's best bodybuilding supplements,gym equipment.
http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam!
TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for Personal Trainers or individual purchase.
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Pet wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If there is ANY flow at all, hot caustic is the first technique
to try.

I'll remember that, though our plumber is doing the long run in 2"
pipe just to ensure a good flow.

I have occasionally run waste in 1 1/4" rather than 1 1/2" to
maintain a high flow velocity. No probs AFAIK.


J.B.

Peter Parry wrote in message . ..
On 6 Jun 2004 14:30:34 -0700, (N. Thornton) wrote:

Often all thats neeed is some caustic soda. I put a cupful in the
sink, over the plug hole, and poured some boiling water on it.

With respect that is a really silly idea - when caustic soda
dissolves the reaction is strongly exothermic - it generates a lot of
heat. Pouring near boiling water on it is not sensible as you get an
immediate boiling mass of concentrated caustic soda.

that was precisely the point.


Its very effective,

Indeed - but it is equally effective if made up following the
destructions on the container and a damn sight safer.

but !beware! It spits alkali, and the spit drops can
do your eyes a serious and nasty injury.

There is no can about it - boiling concentrated caustic soda will
blind you very quickly. Alkali burns from caustic soda are _always_
worse than they look and should always be treated as emergencies and
the victim taken to hospital after rapid first aid of complete
irrigation of the eye with copious amounts of water.

not when youre facing the other way it doesnt - but it only takes one
moments inattention for disaster. Dont copy.

Regards, NT

On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:42:11 +0100, "Terry D"
wrote:

These 'Mr Muscle' products are probably all based on sodium carbonate and
sodium hydroxide,

No, they aren't. The "active" Mr Muscle is something quite obscure.
Recreating it was goign to cost considerably more than buying it
retail - as it was obscure, the only sources were either lab grade or
buying it by the tonne.

Although sodium carbonate and sodium hydroxide certainly shouldn't be
overlooked.

BTW - the pH of Mr Muscle spray is a little frightening too.

--
Smert' spamionam

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:

[snip]
BTW - the pH of Mr Muscle spray is a little frightening too.

Why is it legal to sell (say) a caustic oven cleaner
in spray form.... spray it into the closed space of
an oven and the first thing does is blow straight
back into your face, eyes, lungs, etc.

--
Tony Williams.

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:42:11 +0100, "Terry D"
wrote:


These 'Mr Muscle' products are probably all based on sodium carbonate and
sodium hydroxide,


No, they aren't. The "active" Mr Muscle is something quite obscure.
Recreating it was goign to cost considerably more than buying it
retail - as it was obscure, the only sources were either lab grade or
buying it by the tonne.

Although sodium carbonate and sodium hydroxide certainly shouldn't be
overlooked.

BTW - the pH of Mr Muscle spray is a little frightening too.

Mr Muscle spray appears to be simply caustic soda in some sort of foam.

Having switched the aga off as its no longer cold enough to justify it,
I cleaned it all with mr muscle yesterday. Same smell as caustic, same
effect as caustic, especially on my hands and arms.

Its a highly alkaline reducing agent, bleach and saponification mixture.
To me, only caustic comes close in meeting those criteria.

Tony Williams wrote:

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:

[snip]

BTW - the pH of Mr Muscle spray is a little frightening too.


Why is it legal to sell (say) a caustic oven cleaner
in spray form.... spray it into the closed space of
an oven and the first thing does is blow straight
back into your face, eyes, lungs, etc.

Because it actually works?

Why is it leagsl to sell a million thimgs that, handle incoprrectly,
casue death and mutilation. A router or electric saw spring to
mind...not to mention a motor-car.

BillV wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Abso" wrote
My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen
sink has just almost flooded the kitchen by means of
overfilling the sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but
that tells me there's a blockage between the sink and the
main drain.
I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a
syringe type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the
overflow (straight down my shirt, lovely). I can't think
of a way to block the overflow to increase the pressure

Someone else holding a wet rag firmly over the overflow hole whilst
you attend to the plug hole.

so I'm looking for alternatives.
I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details
he http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html
.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative
approaches I could use? TIA.

They are effective if the blockage is in the sink trap. They are
not as
much
use if the blockage is further down.

Go to Plumbase and ask for the strong "One Shot" drain cleaner...
officially only sold to the "trade" (whatever that is) and comes with
all sorts of dire H&S warnings.
Basically its 80%+ H2SO4 and will shift most things; inc presumably
cast iron drains :-)

Well, I never made it to the plumber's merchant but I was in Waitrose
and saw Mr Muscle sink + plughole unblocker on sale, so I decided to
invest 4 GBP in this (on the recommendation of a couple of contributors
to this thread). Having checked the label I can report that Mr Muscle
is composed of Sodium Hydroxide (which IIRC is the same as caustic
soda) and some other stuff. On reflection, and considering the way in
which this tale unfolds, it's just as well I didn't get my hands on the
ultra strong stuff that you recommended.

So anyway, Mr Muscle in my sweaty palms I carefully unscrewed the top
and discharged the whole bottle into the sink trap as directed.
Reassured not to have splashed it anywhere near my eyes I retired a
safe distance and waited over twice the recommended duration of 30mins
before coming back to it. Naturally I was full of anticipation as I
turned on the tap to find....
.... the sink filling at the same rate as before. Bugger.

Two days passed in which I did nothing but resent the whole kitchen.
By last night it still hadn't learned its lesson and still the sink was
blocked, so I resigned myself to getting my hands dirty. Now I'm not
one of the world's most gifted plumbers, in fact it would be more
accurate to say that I'm a one man plumbing disaster zone (My toilet
has the permanent fixture of a drip-catching bowl beneath the cistern
ever since I upgraded it to a flushmaster mechanism and my dishwasher
and WM drain into a McAlpine trap topped by a plastic bag secured with
a cable tie.)

So perhaps it's no surprise that I was later to be found clumsily
twisting to and fro an elbow connector under the sink, only to find
that it gave with a jerk and splashed its contents into my eyes. Now
having read some of the contributions in this thread re. caustic soda
in eyes you can imagine that I was less than thrilled about the
situation and so I proceeded without delay to the shower where I spent
20 mins trying to achieve the difficult trick of looking onto the water
spray without blinking.

One trip to A&E later and having had yellow stain put into my eyes and
a huge great telescope of an eye 'scope pointed my way I'm pleased to
report that my initial eye wash shifted all the nasty stuff and I only
have a precautionary antibiotic ointment course to complete.

If there's a moral to this story is that it's a good idea to wear eye
protection when disassembling a sink trap into which you've previously
poured a heavier than water drain cleaner which is likely to be still
hanging around.

Ho hum.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Abso wrote:

BillV wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Abso" wrote
My washing m/c, which is connected for drainage at the kitchen
sink has just almost flooded the kitchen by means of
overfilling the sink when draining. Now I'm no expert, but
that tells me there's a blockage between the sink and the
main drain.
I've tried a traditional plunger on the kitchen sink, and a
syringe type plunger but both merely blow crap out of the
overflow (straight down my shirt, lovely). I can't think
of a way to block the overflow to increase the pressure

Someone else holding a wet rag firmly over the overflow hole whilst
you attend to the plug hole.

so I'm looking for alternatives.
I've come across the Mr Muscle range of two products, details
he http://www.mrmuscleonline.co.uk/page3.html
.. is this kind of product any good? Are there alternative
approaches I could use? TIA.

They are effective if the blockage is in the sink trap. They are
not as
much
use if the blockage is further down.

Go to Plumbase and ask for the strong "One Shot" drain cleaner...
officially only sold to the "trade" (whatever that is) and comes with
all sorts of dire H&S warnings.
Basically its 80%+ H2SO4 and will shift most things; inc presumably
cast iron drains :-)

Well, I never made it to the plumber's merchant but I was in Waitrose
and saw Mr Muscle sink + plughole unblocker on sale, so I decided to
invest 4 GBP in this (on the recommendation of a couple of
contributors to this thread). Having checked the label I can report
that Mr Muscle is composed of Sodium Hydroxide (which IIRC is the
same as caustic soda) and some other stuff. On reflection, and
considering the way in which this tale unfolds, it's just as well I
didn't get my hands on the ultra strong stuff that you recommended.

So anyway, Mr Muscle in my sweaty palms I carefully unscrewed the top
and discharged the whole bottle into the sink trap as directed.
Reassured not to have splashed it anywhere near my eyes I retired a
safe distance and waited over twice the recommended duration of 30mins
before coming back to it. Naturally I was full of anticipation as I
turned on the tap to find....
... the sink filling at the same rate as before. Bugger.

Two days passed in which I did nothing but resent the whole kitchen.
By last night it still hadn't learned its lesson and still the sink
was blocked, so I resigned myself to getting my hands dirty. Now I'm
not one of the world's most gifted plumbers, in fact it would be more
accurate to say that I'm a one man plumbing disaster zone (My toilet
has the permanent fixture of a drip-catching bowl beneath the cistern
ever since I upgraded it to a flushmaster mechanism and my dishwasher
and WM drain into a McAlpine trap topped by a plastic bag secured with
a cable tie.)

So perhaps it's no surprise that I was later to be found clumsily
twisting to and fro an elbow connector under the sink, only to find
that it gave with a jerk and splashed its contents into my eyes. Now
having read some of the contributions in this thread re. caustic soda
in eyes you can imagine that I was less than thrilled about the
situation and so I proceeded without delay to the shower where I spent
20 mins trying to achieve the difficult trick of looking onto the
water spray without blinking.

One trip to A&E later and having had yellow stain put into my eyes and
a huge great telescope of an eye 'scope pointed my way I'm pleased to
report that my initial eye wash shifted all the nasty stuff and I only
have a precautionary antibiotic ointment course to complete.

If there's a moral to this story is that it's a good idea to wear eye
protection when disassembling a sink trap into which you've previously
poured a heavier than water drain cleaner which is likely to be still
hanging around.

Ho hum.


Yes, but have you now cleared the blockage by dismantling it? I suspected
that you would need to do this - as stated in an earlier reply. It's often
the best way, and if you do it *before* putting any nasty chemicals down the
plug-hole, you're less likely to end up in A&E.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Abso wrote:

snip
If there's a moral to this story is that it's a good idea to wear
eye protection when disassembling a sink trap into which you've
previously poured a heavier than water drain cleaner which is
likely to be still hanging around.

Ho hum.


Yes, but have you now cleared the blockage by dismantling it?

Unfortunately not. Despite removing an unlikely amount of gunge from
the u bend and adjacent pipe ends I now find that the sink drains
roughly as slowly as before. Clearly the block is further down the
pipe which leads towards the main drain, but it is not accessible so I
think I either need one of Owain's patent pending Wire Snaky things, or
some more chemicals.

I'm off to Gibbs and Dandy shortly to ask their advice, they seem a
helpful bunch in there.

I
suspected that you would need to do this - as stated in an earlier
reply. It's often the best way, and if you do it before putting any
nasty chemicals down the plug-hole, you're less likely to end up in
A&E.

Yes, I should have started unscrewing U traps first but I didn't
realise how easily removed these compression fit items are.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

In article ,
Abso wrote:

Unfortunately not. Despite removing an unlikely amount of gunge
from the u bend and adjacent pipe ends I now find that the sink
drains roughly as slowly as before. Clearly the block is further
down the pipe which leads towards the main drain, but it is not
accessible so I think I either need one of Owain's patent pending
Wire Snaky things, or some more chemicals.

This is the trouble I caused for myself.
It was a bathroom sink with a long outlet,
nearly horizontal, and fairly well gunged-up
over the whole of it's length. Using caustic
as the first thing was a mistake, because it
softened the gunge upstream, which promptly
blocked-off what little flow there was.

The only solution was to rod from outside.
This involved removing the r.angle coupler
and vertical section down the outside wall.

I did remember not to stand in front of the
(now caustic) gunge, but didn't think of
putting on a temporary straight coupler and
stub end of pipe, to keep the gunge from the
rodding away from the brick wall.

--
Tony Williams.

Tony Williams wrote:

In article ,
Abso wrote:

Unfortunately not. Despite removing an unlikely amount of gunge
from the u bend and adjacent pipe ends I now find that the sink
drains roughly as slowly as before. Clearly the block is further
down the pipe which leads towards the main drain, but it is not
accessible so I think I either need one of Owain's patent pending
Wire Snaky things, or some more chemicals.

This is the trouble I caused for myself.
It was a bathroom sink with a long outlet,
nearly horizontal, and fairly well gunged-up
over the whole of it's length. Using caustic
as the first thing was a mistake, because it
softened the gunge upstream, which promptly
blocked-off what little flow there was.

The only solution was to rod from outside.
This involved removing the r.angle coupler
and vertical section down the outside wall.

I did remember not to stand in front of the
(now caustic) gunge, but didn't think of
putting on a temporary straight coupler and
stub end of pipe, to keep the gunge from the
rodding away from the brick wall.

Heh, it's always afterwards that you know how you *should* have done it
)

Anyway, by way of an update I now have a gurgling, free running kitchen
sink courtesy of Owain's (tm) Wire Snaky thing which I bought this
morning at Gibbs and Dandy.

It was a sod to get this past the bends in the pipe, but eventually it
co-operated and as I pulled it back I found some white chalky stuff and
some hairballs lodged in the end of the wire snaky.

What's the best way to clean these things after use? Because of the
coiled construction of the wire snaky its whole length appears to be
impregnated with gunge. I'm thinking of letting it sit in a bath of
bleach for a few hours, unless anyone has a better idea?

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk

Owain wrote:

"Abso" wrote
I think it's further down.

A Wire Snaky Thing (tm) from a plumber's merchant may be what you
need.

Thanks for this suggestion, it fixed the problem. See more detailed
post up there ^ a bit.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net

The FAQ for upce is at http:\\upce.org.uk