I need to replace a (second) radiator after a pinhole appeared in it. It's
one of the original 1970 radiators, others being added in 1983 to make a
total of 16. The system was flushed and had inhibitor added quite some time
ago now and I'm sure it's due for another clear out and another dose of
inhibitor!

Can anyone recommend suitable products? Fernox seems to be the most common,
but is it the best? If it's to be Fernox, which ones - there seems to be a
variety of Fernox inhibitors for example.

As we have concrete floors downstairs, the pipes to radiators drop down
from the bedrooms. Unfortunately some of the drops do not have any way to
drain them off. I seem to remember mention on here of some kind of
alternative lockshield valve which might be useful in these circumastances.
Anyone able to enlighten me?

TIA.

--
F

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F wrote:
I need to replace a (second) radiator after a pinhole appeared in it. It's
one of the original 1970 radiators, others being added in 1983 to make a
total of 16. The system was flushed and had inhibitor added quite some time
ago now and I'm sure it's due for another clear out and another dose of
inhibitor!

The absolute best way is to remove the radiators, and flush them outside
using a hosepipe.
Then add a filter, and flush the system conventionally.

"F" wrote in message
...
(Snippage occurred ...)

As we have concrete floors downstairs, the pipes to radiators drop down
from the bedrooms. Unfortunately some of the drops do not have any way to
drain them off. I seem to remember mention on here of some kind of
alternative lockshield valve which might be useful in these
circumastances.
Anyone able to enlighten me?

Just had a major overhaul of the CH system and the plumber pointed out the
same problem to me - 2 rads on a drop from above with no drain cock. So, as
part of the overhaul included fitting TRVs and new lockshields, he fitted
one of the 'special' type. The valve is kind of like a tee where the 'leg'
attaches to the pipe, one end of the 'crossbar' attaches to the rad, and the
other end of the crossbar is the drain point. Apparently (not tried it, but
this is what he told me) shutting down the valve closes off both the leg and
tee connections at the same time. Then, with the valve closed, a bleed key
is inserted into the drain cock - up the spout, as it were - to remove an
internal plug, you attach your drain hose and open the valve again. Water
flows from the feed (or more likely return) pipe and from the radiator until
both are empty. Damned clever idea ... !

Oh, and by the way, to all those people who replied to my post a few weeks
ago on the topic of my sooty boiler, you have caused me to spend two grand
on getting a new boiler installed and overhauling the system. It was
unquestionably the right decision, thank you.

My CORGI pointed out that the vent for the air needed for combustion was
undersized - he showed me the data tables and there's no doubt he was
right - so bigger hole in wall and new vent fitted. When a replacement gas
meter was fitted a couple of years ago the replacement was smaller than the
old one so they left it sitting in mid air supported only by the gas pipes.
He was unhappy about that and re-made the outlet connection in a way to
permit the meter to be supported. Then on commissioning the new boiler he
discovered the gas pressure on the incoming main was insufficient so he had
to call Transco to come and fit a new regulator which they promptly did. He
was both amused and concerned that the "young lad" wouldn't agree that the
pressure had to be set with all appliances - hob, boiler and gas fire -
operating simultaneously, and had to make a call back to 'base' before he
was convinced and sheepishly agreed John (plumber) was correct! (Thinks, I
wonder how many other regulators he has fitted and set incorrectly ....).
The system is currently pumping a (second) bottle of X400 around in the
water and he's coming back next week to drain it down and re-fill with the
inhibitor added.

He left me the printout from his combustion analyser with the boiler's log
book and if I read it correctly, it seems to be producing 24 parts per
million of carbon monoxide which is apparently well within the required
limits, and is operating at a very respectable 87% efficiency. It's a
Potterton Kingfisher 60,000 Btu unit with a conventional flue. One thing
I'm not too sure about is the flow and return water temperatures, recorded
as 80 and 69 degrees respectively. ISTR 82 and 70-something being mentioned
here in previous threads as the numbers to aim for. Anyone care to comment?

F wrote:

Any particular cleanser or inhibitor recommended? Fernox products seem to
sell at around £19 for 10 radiators but Screwfix have a couple I've not
heard of before, 'Flushex' and 'Protex', at £3.69. However, they've got
silly names and I don't trust products/companies with silly names - if they
can't be bothered to think up anything more original then how much effort
do they put in elsewhere?

Fernox MB1 and Sentinel X100 do what they say on the tin.
Nothing is better than Protex :-)

Dunno about flushex but given the relative performance of protex wrt the
others I'm sticking to the Fernox & Sentinel products.

Ian Stirling wrote:
F wrote:

Sorry, what do you mean by 'filter'? What is it and where does it go?


It goes in the flow or return pipes, and is a filter, that picks up sludge.
I'm not sure where you'd get one.

BES
7532 15MM Y IN-LINE STRAINER £3.54
7533 22MM Y IN-LINE STRAINER £4.97
+ VAT

In article ,
"Mike Faithfull" writes:

He left me the printout from his combustion analyser with the boiler's log
book and if I read it correctly, it seems to be producing 24 parts per
million of carbon monoxide which is apparently well within the required

The interesting figure is the CO/CO2 ratio, rather than the raw CO
figure, but there shouldn't be a problem with a new boiler.

limits, and is operating at a very respectable 87% efficiency. It's a
Potterton Kingfisher 60,000 Btu unit with a conventional flue. One thing
I'm not too sure about is the flow and return water temperatures, recorded
as 80 and 69 degrees respectively. ISTR 82 and 70-something being mentioned
here in previous threads as the numbers to aim for. Anyone care to comment?

The figures are fine. The boiler stat will adjust them, but don't
adjust the return below 60, or you risk getting condesation
forming in a non-condensing boiler, which will corrode it.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

You've had a new boiler fitted which relies on a vent for the air needed
for combustion? You're mad. Sorry to say so. Nobody in their right mind
did this 30 years ago - let alone now.

When you're at the limit of what you can't really afford anyway, you have to
make compromises - replacing the old boiler like for like, more or less, was
the cheapest option. A conventional floor standing unit is lower cost than
a more modern condensing boiler, and the flue was already in place for
re-use. I will hold my hands up to making an assumption that the new unit
would be as basic and simple as the old one (ultra-reliable, only
thermocouples ever needed replacing) but it has electronic gubbins, pressure
switches and fans in it - all extra stuff to wear out and go wrong that I
didn't want. But there we are, job done now. We're warm and safe!

John Stumbles wrote in
:
BES
7532 15MM Y IN-LINE STRAINER £3.54
7533 22MM Y IN-LINE STRAINER £4.97
+ VAT

Ah! Thanks.

--
F

Beware spamtrap - remove the negative

"Mike Faithfull" wrote in
:

Just had a major overhaul of the CH system and the plumber pointed out
the same problem to me - 2 rads on a drop from above with no drain
cock. So, as part of the overhaul included fitting TRVs and new
lockshields, he fitted one of the 'special' type. The valve is kind
of like a tee where the 'leg' attaches to the pipe, one end of the
'crossbar' attaches to the rad, and the other end of the crossbar is
the drain point.

Thanks. This sounds similar to, but not the same as, a couple of
lockshields I have found at Screwfix - 11074-47 and 82588-47.

Anyone got any views on relative merits?
--
F

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F wrote:
"Mike Faithfull" wrote in
:


Just had a major overhaul of the CH system and the plumber pointed out
the same problem to me - 2 rads on a drop from above with no drain
cock. So, as part of the overhaul included fitting TRVs and new
lockshields, he fitted one of the 'special' type. The valve is kind
of like a tee where the 'leg' attaches to the pipe, one end of the
'crossbar' attaches to the rad, and the other end of the crossbar is
the drain point.


Thanks. This sounds similar to, but not the same as, a couple of
lockshields I have found at Screwfix - 11074-47 and 82588-47.

Anyone got any views on relative merits?

Of the rads I've come across with drain-off valves, and regular drain
cocks in general, a large proportion have been either stuck (and won't
drain) or the rubber washers have perished and fall apart when you
disturb the cock and won't shut tight again leaving you with water
p****ing out over the customer's nice clean carpets :-(.

KISS. A rad can be drained from the valve/radiator unions (as long as
there's room to get a shallow tray underneath) and you should have to do
this so infrequently that the added complication (and unreliability) of
a drain cock isn't worth it. Plus they look shyte :-)

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
F wrote:
"Mike Faithfull" wrote in
:



KISS. A rad can be drained from the valve/radiator unions (as long as
there's room to get a shallow tray underneath) and you should have to do
this so infrequently that the added complication (and unreliability) of
a drain cock isn't worth it. Plus they look shyte :-)

I would have to agree with your KISS principle John - however, IMHO having a
drain cock, with whatever its shortcomings, is a small price to pay for the
speed and convenience of being able to attach a hose which can go straight
out the patio doors into an outside drain instead of spending ages pratting
about with unstable trays full of black nasty water - however infrequently
this may be required ... YMMV )

Mike Faithfull wrote:


I would have to agree with your KISS principle John - however, IMHO having a
drain cock, with whatever its shortcomings, is a small price to pay for the
speed and convenience of being able to attach a hose which can go straight
out the patio doors into an outside drain instead of spending ages pratting
about with unstable trays full of black nasty water - however infrequently
this may be required ... YMMV )

Agreed - our previous house had an unusually intelligent version of this
idea: a drain cock in a large understairs cupboard, so the odd leakette
of sludgy gunge (if such were present) would stain only floorboards,
rather than your finest lounge carpet.

Never did get round to running a captive length of garden hose (with
creepie-crawlie cap) through the airbrick close by - only time we had to
drain down we just hooked up the garden hose and let it snake through
hall and kitchen...

The message
from Stefek Zaba contains these words:

I would have to agree with your KISS principle John - however, IMHO
having a
drain cock, with whatever its shortcomings, is a small price to pay
for the
speed and convenience of being able to attach a hose which can go straight
out the patio doors into an outside drain instead of spending ages
pratting
about with unstable trays full of black nasty water - however infrequently
this may be required ... YMMV )

Agreed - our previous house had an unusually intelligent version of this
idea: a drain cock in a large understairs cupboard, so the odd leakette
of sludgy gunge (if such were present) would stain only floorboards,
rather than your finest lounge carpet.

AIUI the particular problem referred to above is drop down links from
upstairs which need a drain valve on each section so a common drain cock
wouldn't work in that case.

Never did get round to running a captive length of garden hose (with
creepie-crawlie cap) through the airbrick close by - only time we had to
drain down we just hooked up the garden hose and let it snake through
hall and kitchen...

FWIW I have drains through the outside wall teed off both flow and
return at the lowest point on the circuit. Still have to use hosepipes
though as the discharge would otherwise end up in the well. Anyway being
tight I drain down into a plastic dustbin and pump back afterwards.

I also have a (gatevalved)* cross link between cold feed for the
cylinder and the feed to the hot taps so next time I have to drain down
the cylinder I won't have to wait hours while the contents syphon out.

*Or maybe just a stop cock.
--
Roger

John Stumbles wrote in
:

KISS. A rad can be drained from the valve/radiator unions (as long as
there's room to get a shallow tray underneath) and you should have to do
this so infrequently that the added complication (and unreliability) of
a drain cock isn't worth it. Plus they look shyte :-)

This is how I've drained the parts of the system without drain cocks in the
past but we've just got new carpets and with my luck...

Might add the lockshield valves with the integral drain cocks but expect
them to fall to pieces when it comes to using them and so take appropriate
precautions in the form of a shallow tray etc.!

--
F

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John Stumbles wrote in
:

Nothing is better than Protex :-)

I had to read that several times before I was sure of what you were saying!

I've found Toolstation and they have 'Tower' inhibitor and cleanser at £6+
each. Anyone got any experience of these? Or should I stick to the Fernox
and Sentinel at just short of three times the price?

--
F

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