I've got a rather complicated soil pipe run to install and I'm at a bit of a
loss as to whether what I'm trying to do will even be possible. A picture's
worth a thousand words etc. etc. so here you go:-

http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/soil.gif


The first problem is that as soon as the soil pipe leaves the building
through a 2ft thick brick wall, it needs to turn 90 degrees and head towards
the soil stack. Can I even put a 90 degree access bend directly against the
brickwork like this, or will it cause the adjoining soil pipe to be too far
away from the wall to attach the supporting clips?

Secondly, I'd like (if possible) to run my sink waste into this soil pipe,
to avoid the need for a second waste pipe to weave it's way around the w/c
etc. By my understanding this means I'll need some form of horizontal T
connector directly attaching to the pan. I'd then run a standard section of
soil pipe to the right of this, along to the sink, with a screw-on end cap
for access. The sink would just have a single vertical waste drop (hidden
behind the pedestal) and attach to the soil pipe with a 40mm strap boss.

Can you actually get a T pan connector that would allow this? I assume
public lavatories must have something like this, allowing several w/c's to
connect to the same horizontal soil run?

Thirdly, I gather the stub stack can just be attached via a 92.5 degree
access branch turned on it's side?

Anyway, some pointers and guidance would be greatly appreciated!

TIA,

Andy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Pecanfan wrote:

I've got a rather complicated soil pipe run to install and I'm at a
bit of a loss as to whether what I'm trying to do will even be
possible. A picture's worth a thousand words etc. etc. so here you
go:-

http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/soil.gif


The first problem is that as soon as the soil pipe leaves the building
through a 2ft thick brick wall, it needs to turn 90 degrees and head
towards the soil stack. Can I even put a 90 degree access bend
directly against the brickwork like this, or will it cause the
adjoining soil pipe to be too far away from the wall to attach the
supporting clips?

Can't you build the bend slightly *into* the brickwork - as long as you can
still get at the rodding point access cover ok?

Secondly, I'd like (if possible) to run my sink waste into this soil
pipe, to avoid the need for a second waste pipe to weave it's way
around the w/c etc. By my understanding this means I'll need some
form of horizontal T connector directly attaching to the pan. I'd
then run a standard section of soil pipe to the right of this, along
to the sink, with a screw-on end cap for access. The sink would just
have a single vertical waste drop (hidden behind the pedestal) and
attach to the soil pipe with a 40mm strap boss.

Can you actually get a T pan connector that would allow this? I
assume public lavatories must have something like this, allowing
several w/c's to connect to the same horizontal soil run?


Does the soil pipe *need* to extend along to the basin? Can't you bring a
smaller pipe along, and connect it into the large pipe near the pan?

A good source of inspiration may be to visit the toilets in a few of your
local supermarkets. They seem to use exposed soilpipes with all sorts of
things connected into them. May well give you some ideas!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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Pecanfan wrote:
I've got a rather complicated soil pipe run to install and I'm at a bit of a
loss as to whether what I'm trying to do will even be possible. A picture's
worth a thousand words etc. etc. so here you go:-

http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/soil.gif


The first problem is that as soon as the soil pipe leaves the building
through a 2ft thick brick wall, it needs to turn 90 degrees and head towards
the soil stack. Can I even put a 90 degree access bend directly against the
brickwork like this, or will it cause the adjoining soil pipe to be too far
away from the wall to attach the supporting clips?

Secondly, I'd like (if possible) to run my sink waste into this soil pipe,
to avoid the need for a second waste pipe to weave it's way around the w/c
etc. By my understanding this means I'll need some form of horizontal T
connector directly attaching to the pan. I'd then run a standard section of
soil pipe to the right of this, along to the sink, with a screw-on end cap
for access. The sink would just have a single vertical waste drop (hidden
behind the pedestal) and attach to the soil pipe with a 40mm strap boss.

Can you actually get a T pan connector that would allow this? I assume
public lavatories must have something like this, allowing several w/c's to
connect to the same horizontal soil run?

Thirdly, I gather the stub stack can just be attached via a 92.5 degree
access branch turned on it's side?

Anyway, some pointers and guidance would be greatly appreciated!

TIA,

Andy

See the following url for the bldg regs view (beware line splits:
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...csp#P190_14437

I'd always thought that a basin, shower, etc could only terminate in the
soil stack but from re-reading the regs this isn't as clear as I thought
previously.
--
Dave S
(The return email address is a dummy)

Pecanfan wrote:

I've got a rather complicated soil pipe run to install and I'm at a bit of a
loss as to whether what I'm trying to do will even be possible. A picture's
worth a thousand words etc. etc. so here you go:-

http://www.pciq.co.uk/pics/soil.gif

BTW. If the main stack is not that far away, and it is vented, then you
won't need the air admitance valve on your new section.

The first problem is that as soon as the soil pipe leaves the building
through a 2ft thick brick wall, it needs to turn 90 degrees and head towards
the soil stack. Can I even put a 90 degree access bend directly against the
brickwork like this, or will it cause the adjoining soil pipe to be too far
away from the wall to attach the supporting clips?

I did this recently and found that the end of the elbow (or tee) needed
to start inside the wall to get the turn in the right place so that the
external pipe run can be clipped correctly.

Secondly, I'd like (if possible) to run my sink waste into this soil pipe,
to avoid the need for a second waste pipe to weave it's way around the w/c
etc. By my understanding this means I'll need some form of horizontal T
connector directly attaching to the pan. I'd then run a standard section of

You can get WC pan connectors designed to do exactly this:-

http://www.mcalpineplumbing.com/product_menu.htm

Thirdly, I gather the stub stack can just be attached via a 92.5 degree
access branch turned on it's side?

Yup - there is enough give to allow a 90 degree angle if required.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Does the soil pipe *need* to extend along to the basin? Can't you bring a
smaller pipe along, and connect it into the large pipe near the pan?


Potentially, but I've never seen a soil pipe end-cap with a 40mm waste hole
built into it. That means I'd have to do the strap boss thing, which means
the waste from the sink would have to meander along to the soil pipe *above*
the level of the soil pipe (in order to drop into it). It's OK, shortly
after posting I found this which should do the job nicely...
http://database.hunterplastics.co.uk/products?group=519 :-)

Andy

Pecanfan wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,


Does the soil pipe *need* to extend along to the basin? Can't you bring a
smaller pipe along, and connect it into the large pipe near the pan?



Potentially, but I've never seen a soil pipe end-cap with a 40mm waste hole
built into it.

I have. Lots. Big rubber bung with a 1/34" hole in it.

That means I'd have to do the strap boss thing, which means
the waste from the sink would have to meander along to the soil pipe *above*
the level of the soil pipe (in order to drop into it). It's OK, shortly
after posting I found this which should do the job nicely...
http://database.hunterplastics.co.uk/products?group=519 :-)

Oh. Never seen that particular combination meself Neat.


My plumbers solved this one by drilling into the vertical soil pipe and
glueing waste 'collars' into it so bath and basin feed in the side of it
and bog in the top.


Andy

BTW. If the main stack is not that far away, and it is vented, then you
won't need the air admitance valve on your new section.

Unfortunately it's about 8m away. :-(


I did this recently and found that the end of the elbow (or tee) needed
to start inside the wall to get the turn in the right place so that the
external pipe run can be clipped correctly.

Thought that might be the case - seems reasonable. Do you know roughly what
size hole that requires? Presumably 130mm or so?


You can get WC pan connectors designed to do exactly this:-

http://www.mcalpineplumbing.com/product_menu.htm

Found those just after I sent my original post - d'oh! That's do the job
perfectly. Ta!


Yup - there is enough give to allow a 90 degree angle if required.

Cool - all problems solved. T'interweb's great. :-)

Cheers all!

Andy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Pecanfan wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Does the soil pipe *need* to extend along to the basin? Can't you
bring a smaller pipe along, and connect it into the large pipe near
the pan?


Potentially, but I've never seen a soil pipe end-cap with a 40mm
waste hole built into it. That means I'd have to do the strap boss
thing, which means the waste from the sink would have to meander
along to the soil pipe *above* the level of the soil pipe (in order
to drop into it). It's OK, shortly after posting I found this which
should do the job nicely...
http://database.hunterplastics.co.uk/products?group=519 :-)

Andy

Yes, that's the sort of thing I had in mind.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Pecanfan wrote:

I did this recently and found that the end of the elbow (or tee) needed
to start inside the wall to get the turn in the right place so that the
external pipe run can be clipped correctly.


Thought that might be the case - seems reasonable. Do you know roughly what
size hole that requires? Presumably 130mm or so?

Sounds about right, or maybe a tad more... I was fitting through an
exterior rendered stud wall (which is a pain to make holes through
because it starts out with mortar, then expanded metal lath, then ply,
then foam, the plasterboard - try finding a drill bit to go through that!)

I held the end of the elbow against the wall and drew round it. Used a
chisel on the SDS to cut round the outside of the line, tin snipped
through the lath, then used a 5" hole saw on the ply and the
plasterboard and foam. I actually found the 5" hole in the ply was still
a little too small and needed to attack it with a reciprocating saw. So
I would guess a 6" hole would see you clear. It does not need to be that
size all the way through BTW, because the elbow will only penetrate a
couple of inches into the wall.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Sounds about right, or maybe a tad more... I was fitting through an
exterior rendered stud wall (which is a pain to make holes through
because it starts out with mortar, then expanded metal lath, then ply,
then foam, the plasterboard - try finding a drill bit to go through that!)

I held the end of the elbow against the wall and drew round it. Used a
chisel on the SDS to cut round the outside of the line, tin snipped
through the lath, then used a 5" hole saw on the ply and the
plasterboard and foam. I actually found the 5" hole in the ply was still
a little too small and needed to attack it with a reciprocating saw. So
I would guess a 6" hole would see you clear. It does not need to be that
size all the way through BTW, because the elbow will only penetrate a
couple of inches into the wall.

Sounds like fun! Well, I need to get through approximately 2ft of the
hardest brick in the world so I'm going to look into hiring some form of
diamond core drill - just to add to the fun I'll be 20ft up a ladder in gale
force winds at the time - woohoo!! :-|

Andy

Pecanfan wrote:

Sounds like fun! Well, I need to get through approximately 2ft of the
hardest brick in the world so I'm going to look into hiring some form of
diamond core drill - just to add to the fun I'll be 20ft up a ladder in gale
force winds at the time - woohoo!! :-|

If using a core drill, why not drill from the inside out?

I have done a 4" core with 11" solid walls... that was easy to do by
sticking a pilot hole right through and then drilling half way in from
each side... the second one I did it was not as easy to get to the
outside, so I did that all from the inside and just broke out the core
when I ran out of depth on the core drill. You will need a powerful
drill for a core much bigger than 4", my 780W Makita SDS only just coped
with that.

In think in your case I would be tempted to core bore a hole big enough
for the pipe (say 120mm), and then open out the final couple of inches a
bit wider to accept the elbow using a SDS chisel, rather than make the
whole length of the hole bigger than you need just so the coller of the
elbow will fit one end.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

If using a core drill, why not drill from the inside out?

'cause a) I'm nervous about the last bits of brick etc. hitting our
downstair's neighbour's window, which is directly under the hole and b) I
need to core a slightly bigger hole on the outside to take the lip of the
access bend.


drill for a core much bigger than 4", my 780W Makita SDS only just coped
with that.

Think I've got the same drill as you - HR2450? Great piece of kit -
definitely my best buy last year :-). So far, this year's best buy is a £4
angle grinder from ScrewFix - £4 'a tells ya!!! Anyway, not planning on
abusing my drill with this job - I think the local hire shop do a proper
core drill with bits for £20 or so.


In think in your case I would be tempted to core bore a hole big enough
for the pipe (say 120mm), and then open out the final couple of inches a
bit wider to accept the elbow using a SDS chisel, rather than make the
whole length of the hole bigger than you need just so the coller of the
elbow will fit one end.

Yeah - I'll either be doing that or, if possible, I'll use two separate core
drills - using the larger from outside to cut a 1-2" rebate into the
brickwork as mentioned.

Andy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Pecanfan wrote:

If using a core drill, why not drill from the inside out?

'cause a) I'm nervous about the last bits of brick etc. hitting our
downstair's neighbour's window, which is directly under the hole and
b) I need to core a slightly bigger hole on the outside to take the
lip of the access bend.


drill for a core much bigger than 4", my 780W Makita SDS only just
coped with that.

Think I've got the same drill as you - HR2450? Great piece of kit -
definitely my best buy last year :-). So far, this year's best buy
is a £4 angle grinder from ScrewFix - £4 'a tells ya!!! Anyway, not
planning on abusing my drill with this job - I think the local hire
shop do a proper core drill with bits for £20 or so.


In think in your case I would be tempted to core bore a hole big
enough for the pipe (say 120mm), and then open out the final couple
of inches a bit wider to accept the elbow using a SDS chisel, rather
than make the whole length of the hole bigger than you need just so
the coller of the elbow will fit one end.

Yeah - I'll either be doing that or, if possible, I'll use two
separate core drills - using the larger from outside to cut a 1-2"
rebate into the brickwork as mentioned.

Andy

You *really* don't want to be operating a core drill when 20' up a ladder!
You wouldn't be *allowed* to do it on H&S grounds if you were being employed
rather than d.i.y-ing. You really ought to be doing it from the inside -
even if that means having someone else on the ladder to catch any large bits
of brick when you break through.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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Pecanfan wrote:

If using a core drill, why not drill from the inside out?


'cause a) I'm nervous about the last bits of brick etc. hitting our
downstair's neighbour's window, which is directly under the hole and b) I

I tend to find there is no real breakout with a core drill - a large
lump of core should stay put in the end of the bit.

need to core a slightly bigger hole on the outside to take the lip of the
access bend.

Even if you do that you will still need to attack with a chisel to break
it away from the wall since it wont be going all the way through...

drill for a core much bigger than 4", my 780W Makita SDS only just coped
with that.


Think I've got the same drill as you - HR2450? Great piece of kit -
definitely my best buy last year :-). So far, this year's best buy is a ?4

Yup, that is the beastie, and very nice it is too ;-)

It is not so much a power issue (it has no trouble swinging the bit),
but unless you drill dead straight you find yourself right on the limit
of the torque limiter, which can make it difficult to get the bit
spinning at all. (back out a little and then use light pressure as you
ease back toward the coal face!). In some respects if you were going to
use the drill up a ladder then I would feel relatively safe with that
one since when it does snag, the clutch does a very good job of
insulating you from any kick.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

If the 8M leads directly to the soil stack, I still cant see the nead
for the stub stack & AAV. However, if you feel this is a must have,
then i'd recommend taking a smaller dia pipe up to loft level
(Assuming you own all the floors above you:=)) and then fitting the
AAV there. However, as long as the stack is vented, I don't see it
being needed.

If the 8M leads directly to the soil stack, I still cant see the nead
for the stub stack & AAV. However, if you feel this is a must have,
then i'd recommend taking a smaller dia pipe up to loft level
(Assuming you own all the floors above you:=)) and then fitting the
AAV there. However, as long as the stack is vented, I don't see it
being needed.

It was building regs who suggested the AAV on a 1m stub stack so I took it
as read really (don't know if it makes a difference, but the 8m is via 3 90
degree bends!). Hadn't thought of running it all the way up to the loft -
good idea! How would that work then? Could I just put a strap boss on the
soil pipe to the left of the toilet and run 40mm to the loft? If so, can
you get AAVs that fit to 40mm pipe? That would certainly be much more
practical.

Cheers!

Andy