Hi All,

Today I took my (70 ish year old) Mum round the sheds because she
would like a new bathroom. Dad isn't into DIY (now) and she tends to
drive anything that get's done these days (she also tripped over a
speed bump in the carpark, hitting the deck and cutting the finger
that was nearly bitten off by a dog a while back) ;-(

They were talking of removing the huge cast iron bath (any value ..
horse trough, planter etc or is it sledge hammer time?) and replacing
it with a shorter one (just to retain a 'bath') and fitting a decent
sized shower cubicle that would take a stool (for Dad) etc.

None of the sheds had a 'short' bath on display but did have corner
(and semi corner) ones but they would upset the useable layout of the
smallish bathroom.

I think I've found some 'studio' baths out there in internet land but
wondered if anyone had any experience of them in the flesh so to
speak?

Just for a bit more background .. they have a fairly old central
heating system (wall mounted balanced flue with pumped indirect system
to rads / cylinder (was all convection / coal fired)) and now what
seems to be fashionable flat panel cast iron rads ;-)

So, questions if I may ..

Where could we see a range of good (but not 'deluxe' / expensive)
shorter baths?

Who does a nice range of 'roomy' shower cubicles (spec as above). What
are the pro's / cons re over / under floor plumbing on the shower
waste please?

I think Dad would like a 'power shower' but believe you can't have
pumped shower and a combi / sealed boiler (if they were to go over to
one with a heating upgrade in the future)?

Any general tips / advice welcome please ;-)

All the best for 2005 ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

Today I took my (70 ish year old) Mum round the sheds because she
would like a new bathroom. Dad isn't into DIY (now) and she tends to
drive anything that get's done these days (she also tripped over a
speed bump in the carpark, hitting the deck and cutting the finger
that was nearly bitten off by a dog a while back) ;-(

They were talking of removing the huge cast iron bath (any value ..
horse trough, planter etc or is it sledge hammer time?) and replacing
it with a shorter one (just to retain a 'bath') and fitting a decent
sized shower cubicle that would take a stool (for Dad) etc.

None of the sheds had a 'short' bath on display but did have corner
(and semi corner) ones but they would upset the useable layout of the
smallish bathroom.

I think I've found some 'studio' baths out there in internet land but
wondered if anyone had any experience of them in the flesh so to
speak?

Just for a bit more background .. they have a fairly old central
heating system (wall mounted balanced flue with pumped indirect system
to rads / cylinder (was all convection / coal fired)) and now what
seems to be fashionable flat panel cast iron rads ;-)

So, questions if I may ..

Where could we see a range of good (but not 'deluxe' / expensive)
shorter baths?

Who does a nice range of 'roomy' shower cubicles (spec as above). What
are the pro's / cons re over / under floor plumbing on the shower
waste please?

I think Dad would like a 'power shower' but believe you can't have
pumped shower and a combi / sealed boiler (if they were to go over to
one with a heating upgrade in the future)?

Any general tips / advice welcome please ;-)

All the best for 2005 ..


Go to a "proper" bathroom shop. Not a facetious comment, they will have the
catalogues etc., and may (if you are lucky) be able to give advice. Assuming
there is one near you, of course. Stuff that is not available in the sheds
will be more expensive though.

In this particular circumstance, both sides of the combi argument would
probably agree that a combi is fine and you wouldn't need a power (pumped)
shower. If it's a long way off, you would just have to dump the pump at the
time.

Cast iron bath: If in good nick and out on a truck it might be worth
something, but you've got to get it out which will generally involve a
desperate slide into madness or (more likely) the use of a sledge hammer and
a large amount of aggro.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

Today I took my (70 ish year old) Mum round the sheds because she
would like a new bathroom. Dad isn't into DIY (now) and she tends to
drive anything that get's done these days (she also tripped over a
speed bump in the carpark, hitting the deck and cutting the finger
that was nearly bitten off by a dog a while back) ;-(

They were talking of removing the huge cast iron bath (any value ..
horse trough, planter etc or is it sledge hammer time?) and replacing
it with a shorter one (just to retain a 'bath') and fitting a decent
sized shower cubicle that would take a stool (for Dad) etc.

None of the sheds had a 'short' bath on display but did have corner
(and semi corner) ones but they would upset the useable layout of the
smallish bathroom.

I think I've found some 'studio' baths out there in internet land but
wondered if anyone had any experience of them in the flesh so to
speak?

Just for a bit more background .. they have a fairly old central
heating system (wall mounted balanced flue with pumped indirect system
to rads / cylinder (was all convection / coal fired)) and now what
seems to be fashionable flat panel cast iron rads ;-)

So, questions if I may ..

Where could we see a range of good (but not 'deluxe' / expensive)
shorter baths?

Who does a nice range of 'roomy' shower cubicles (spec as above). What
are the pro's / cons re over / under floor plumbing on the shower
waste please?

I think Dad would like a 'power shower' but believe you can't have
pumped shower and a combi / sealed boiler (if they were to go over to
one with a heating upgrade in the future)?

Any general tips / advice welcome please ;-)

All the best for 2005 ..


Go to a "proper" bathroom shop. Not a facetious comment, they will have
the
catalogues etc., and may (if you are lucky) be able to give advice.
Assuming
there is one near you, of course. Stuff that is not available in the sheds
will be more expensive though.

In this particular circumstance, both sides of the combi argument would
probably agree that a combi is fine and you wouldn't need a power (pumped)
shower. If it's a long way off, you would just have to dump the pump at
the
time.

Would be better of fitting a normal shower (thermostatic preferably) with a
shower pump fitted, so when you get a combi, just disconnect the pump will
save having to fit another shower unit.

I think Dad would like a 'power shower' but believe you can't have
pumped shower and a combi / sealed boiler (if they were to go over to
one with a heating upgrade in the future)?

Although you can't pump a combi based shower, it doesn't matter as it
already has plenty of oomph. Choose a thermostatic mixer shower and an
external pump. When/if the combi arrives on the scene, the pump becomes eBay
fodder, but the flush mounted taseful chrome mixer can remain, along with
the tiling.

Christian.

In article ,
"Bob Mannix" writes:

Go to a "proper" bathroom shop. Not a facetious comment, they will have the
catalogues etc., and may (if you are lucky) be able to give advice. Assuming
there is one near you, of course. Stuff that is not available in the sheds
will be more expensive though.

I looked in bathroom shops, decided what I wanted, and ordered the
bits from a small plumbers merchant, which came in the next day,
and that was cheapest option too. I did get a shower screen and
bath in the bathroom shop as they were on sale, and exactly what
I wanted.

In this particular circumstance, both sides of the combi argument would
probably agree that a combi is fine and you wouldn't need a power (pumped)
shower. If it's a long way off, you would just have to dump the pump at the
time.

You must check flow rate at your main before going down the combi
path, and also bear in mind Thames Water is going round reducing
water pressure in areas of London at the moment, so even if it was
good enough, it might cease being so in the future.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:01:40 -0000, "Bob Mannix"
wrote:


Go to a "proper" bathroom shop. Not a facetious comment, they will have the
catalogues etc., and may (if you are lucky) be able to give advice. Assuming
there is one near you, of course. Stuff that is not available in the sheds
will be more expensive though.

Thanks for that Bob .. that was sorta our next port of call. After her
tumble I thought it was enough running about for today ;-(

In this particular circumstance, both sides of the combi argument would
probably agree that a combi is fine and you wouldn't need a power (pumped)
shower. If it's a long way off, you would just have to dump the pump at the
time.

Ok .. understood. Do folk still install 'traditional' 'tanks in the
loft and cyl in the airing cupboard' type setups? ie, if we were to
stay with the main system (it's all 1-1/4", 3/4" , 1/2" .. it has all
been there a while but (currently) has no problems) could we simply
fit a 'modern' high-efficiency boiler?

Cast iron bath: If in good nick and out on a truck it might be worth
something, but you've got to get it out which will generally involve a
desperate slide into madness or (more likely) the use of a sledge hammer and
a large amount of aggro.

Hmm .. it does look pretty big .. and heavy .. ;-( It's one of those
things .. four of you struggle for half a day and get it out in one
piece, only to have it sit there for a few months before you give it
to the 'scrappy'? Or, smash it up only to have someone say "Have you
still got that bath .. I'll give you £100 for it!"

All the best ..

T i m

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:20:26 -0000, "Dave Jones"
wrote:


In this particular circumstance, both sides of the combi argument would
probably agree that a combi is fine and you wouldn't need a power (pumped)
shower. If it's a long way off, you would just have to dump the pump at
the
time.

Would be better of fitting a normal shower (thermostatic preferably) with a
shower pump fitted, so when you get a combi, just disconnect the pump will
save having to fit another shower unit.

Ok . slightly confused here. By a 'normal shower' you mean a shower
that *could* run off a gravity fed system? This would be ~150 quids
worth of Mira or similar?

Then I could fit a pump to that if I (they) wanted a bit more 'ooomph'
but would still run from a sealed / combi type heater thing without
the pump if they went that way?

If we went for a 'Power Shower' we would *have* to have it pumped or
it (probably) wouldn't deliver?

Am I close?

All the best ..

T i m

On 6 Jan 2005 17:52:29 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"Bob Mannix" writes:

Go to a "proper" bathroom shop. Not a facetious comment, they will have the
catalogues etc., and may (if you are lucky) be able to give advice. Assuming
there is one near you, of course. Stuff that is not available in the sheds
will be more expensive though.

I looked in bathroom shops, decided what I wanted, and ordered the
bits from a small plumbers merchant, which came in the next day,
and that was cheapest option too.

So, a bit like 'window shopping' in PC World then getting it off the
net elsewhere! ;-)

I did get a shower screen and
bath in the bathroom shop as they were on sale, and exactly what
I wanted.

That's a big part of it isn't it .. getting what you want. While going
about with Mum today we would see something then be turned round by
the price, (inappropriate) size, fittings (location) quality (too
flash / too nasty) etc.

In this particular circumstance, both sides of the combi argument would
probably agree that a combi is fine and you wouldn't need a power (pumped)
shower. If it's a long way off, you would just have to dump the pump at the
time.

You must check flow rate at your main before going down the combi
path, and also bear in mind Thames Water is going round reducing
water pressure in areas of London at the moment, so even if it was
good enough, it might cease being so in the future.

Didn't know that .. but might that also have a big impact on some of
the existing installations .. spoil folks day etc? I suppose they will
come up with a solution .. (like LRP for leaded) .. a pump on the
input .. or (now here's a good idea) .. a sorta storage tank in the
loft! (nah, wouldn't work) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:28:17 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

I think Dad would like a 'power shower' but believe you can't have
pumped shower and a combi / sealed boiler (if they were to go over to
one with a heating upgrade in the future)?

Although you can't pump a combi based shower, it doesn't matter as it
already has plenty of oomph. Choose a thermostatic mixer shower and an
external pump. When/if the combi arrives on the scene, the pump becomes eBay
fodder, but the flush mounted taseful chrome mixer can remain, along with
the tiling.

Hi Christian,

'eBay fodder' .. LOL ..

Funny though .. we'd probably get what we paid for it, on eBay!

On that then .. would I be right in thinking that a 'good brand' pump
would be more re-sellable than a 'shed brand'? If that is the case,
what name should we be looking for please?

All the best ..

T i m

In article ,
T i m writes:
You must check flow rate at your main before going down the combi
path, and also bear in mind Thames Water is going round reducing
water pressure in areas of London at the moment, so even if it was
good enough, it might cease being so in the future.

Didn't know that .. but might that also have a big impact on some of
the existing installations .. spoil folks day etc? I suppose they will
come up with a solution .. (like LRP for leaded) .. a pump on the
input .. or (now here's a good idea) .. a sorta storage tank in the
loft! (nah, wouldn't work) ;-)

Yes, householder has to buy a pump, and they're very expensive.
Councils have had to fork out millions on them already for council
tower blocks in the areas already affected.

It's all to do with targets. Government have given water companies
a leakage target to meet. Water companies have discovered they can
meet it just by reducing the pressure in the mains, without fixing
the leaks. The target should have included the mains pressure
somewhere in the denominator, but government isn't clever enough
to think up that.

--
Andrew Gabriel

T i m wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:20:26 -0000, "Dave Jones"
wrote:



In this particular circumstance, both sides of the combi argument would
probably agree that a combi is fine and you wouldn't need a power (pumped)
shower. If it's a long way off, you would just have to dump the pump at
the
time.


Would be better of fitting a normal shower (thermostatic preferably) with a
shower pump fitted, so when you get a combi, just disconnect the pump will
save having to fit another shower unit.


Ok . slightly confused here. By a 'normal shower' you mean a shower
that *could* run off a gravity fed system? This would be ~150 quids
worth of Mira or similar?

£150 will only get you a non-thermostatic Mira whereas you could get a
thermostatic bar mixer valve from Screwfix. They're surface mounted so
if it packs up after a few years you can just screw a new one in,
instead of being stuck with £100 for a replacement element for a Mira.


Then I could fit a pump to that if I (they) wanted a bit more 'ooomph'
but would still run from a sealed / combi type heater thing without
the pump if they went that way?

Yup. Unless you have a good head (a floor or more) between tank in the
attic and shower head I'd go for a pump (until they get a combi). You
can always resell it on eBay (or buy one there in the first place).


If we went for a 'Power Shower' we would *have* to have it pumped or
it (probably) wouldn't deliver?

A separate valve and pump will give you a 'Power Shower', though the
term is also used for all-in-one boxes containing a pump + mixer valve
(thermostatic or otherwise). These look superficially like
electrically-heated showers i.e. a box about 300 * 200 with
knobs/switches on and a hose coming out the bottom.

T i m wrote:

Ok .. understood. Do folk still install 'traditional' 'tanks in the
loft and cyl in the airing cupboard' type setups?

Yup, or even both (and even the boiler) in the loft.


ie, if we were to
stay with the main system (it's all 1-1/4", 3/4" , 1/2" .. it has all
been there a while but (currently) has no problems) could we simply
fit a 'modern' high-efficiency boiler?

Yes

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:57:08 +0000, John Stumbles
wrote:


Ok . slightly confused here. By a 'normal shower' you mean a shower
that *could* run off a gravity fed system? This would be ~150 quids
worth of Mira or similar?

£150 will only get you a non-thermostatic Mira whereas you could get a
thermostatic bar mixer valve from Screwfix. They're surface mounted so
if it packs up after a few years you can just screw a new one in,
instead of being stuck with £100 for a replacement element for a Mira.

Ok, no not quite as pretty (if surface mount) but more servicable and
if we loose the Mira badge, better VFM ;-)


Then I could fit a pump to that if I (they) wanted a bit more 'ooomph'
but would still run from a sealed / combi type heater thing without
the pump if they went that way?

Yup. Unless you have a good head (a floor or more) between tank in the
attic and shower head I'd go for a pump (until they get a combi). You
can always resell it on eBay (or buy one there in the first place).

Ok ;-)


If we went for a 'Power Shower' we would *have* to have it pumped or
it (probably) wouldn't deliver?

A separate valve and pump will give you a 'Power Shower', though the
term is also used for all-in-one boxes containing a pump + mixer valve
(thermostatic or otherwise). These look superficially like
electrically-heated showers i.e. a box about 300 * 200 with
knobs/switches on and a hose coming out the bottom.

Ah, yes, may have seen a bay of those in B&Q today .. .. so it would
go ..straight mixer, thermostatic, external pumped thermo, 'power
shower' (and electric)?

All the best .. and thanks John ..

T i m

On that then .. would I be right in thinking that a 'good brand' pump
would be more re-sellable than a 'shed brand'? If that is the case,
what name should we be looking for please?

Stuart Turner.

Christian.

"Dave Jones" wrote in message
...



Go to a "proper" bathroom shop. Not a facetious comment, they will have
the
catalogues etc., and may (if you are lucky) be able to give advice.
Assuming
there is one near you, of course. Stuff that is not available in the
sheds
will be more expensive though.

In this particular circumstance, both sides of the combi argument would
probably agree that a combi is fine and you wouldn't need a power
(pumped)
shower. If it's a long way off, you would just have to dump the pump at
the
time.

Would be better of fitting a normal shower (thermostatic preferably) with
a
shower pump fitted, so when you get a combi, just disconnect the pump will
save having to fit another shower unit.

Er, I believe that's what I said (aside from the thermostatic)!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:57:08 +0000, John Stumbles
wrote:



A separate valve and pump will give you a 'Power Shower', though the
term is also used for all-in-one boxes containing a pump + mixer valve
(thermostatic or otherwise). These look superficially like
electrically-heated showers i.e. a box about 300 * 200 with
knobs/switches on and a hose coming out the bottom.

Ah, yes, may have seen a bay of those in B&Q today .. .. so it would
go ..straight mixer, thermostatic, external pumped thermo, 'power
shower' (and electric)?

Not "electric" if I see what you mean. As John says "power shower" means a
pumped shower. The pump is either in a shower unit on the wall or (better)
separate. An electric instantaneous shower is something else, which runs of
the cold mains and heats the water in the unit on the wall, which means the
flow is very low by comparison. This and the wall mounted power shower look
similar but aren't the same. If you had another shower room, of course, an
instantaneous electric shower would be a sensible option there (if little
used) as it provides backup for when the other hot water system is broken.

Were you keeping the pump, thermostatic control would be an unnecessary
expense and complication. The bulk of the required thermostatic adjustment
in gravity fed showers covers effects from others opening hot taps etc. The
pump removes this problem, leaving changes in water temperature the only
thing you might want controlled. This is rarely a problem during the course
of one shower. If you are going to dump the pump later and run off a combi,
then you would need the thermostatic control. The flow from the combi would
be plenty for a shower but a pumped shower is likely to provide more flow.

I have a single lever Trevi shower driven by a pump which has been
excellent for many years (and is on its second pump).


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)