I have a plumber who works for me on occasions, doing work which has
included fitting gas boilers. This guy is now actually retired after a
lifetime's plumbing, therefore doesn't have a CORGI ticket; so I have had
the gas installations CORGI'd subsequently in order to remain properly above
board.

So far so good; but today he tells me that he won't be able to fit any more
boilers now due to new rules coming in in the new year. This is the first
I've heard of this, can anyone enlighten me? He reckons that when you buy a
new boiler after January, you'll need to sign your life away or something,
and provide full details of who'll be fitting it etc etc; evidently he's
been frightened off by this. He also told me about Part P (electrical) in
the same breath, which I knew about, but which makes me think his source may
be reliable.

Can anybody tell me more about this? I'm hoping to be able to convince my
plumber friend he's wrong!

Thanks
David

Lobster wrote:
I have a plumber who works for me on occasions, doing work which has
included fitting gas boilers. This guy is now actually retired after
a
lifetime's plumbing, therefore doesn't have a CORGI ticket; so I have
had
the gas installations CORGI'd subsequently in order to remain
properly above
board.

So far so good; but today he tells me that he won't be able to fit
any more
boilers now due to new rules coming in in the new year. This is the
first
I've heard of this, can anyone enlighten me? He reckons that when
you buy a
new boiler after January, you'll need to sign your life away or
something,
and provide full details of who'll be fitting it etc etc; evidently
he's
been frightened off by this. He also told me about Part P
(electrical) in
the same breath, which I knew about, but which makes me think his
source may
be reliable.

Can anybody tell me more about this? I'm hoping to be able to
convince my
plumber friend he's wrong!

Thanks
David

Whilst browsing in the plumbing section of my local B+Q shed this
afternoon, I
came across a label attatched to a shelf displaying gas boilers. It
stated
that it is illegal for a gas boiler to be installed by an individual
unless
he/she is registered with CORGI. Maybe they check the customers corgi
card
when the boiler is presented at the till. ;-)

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 08:39:33 -0800, Jyestyn wrote:


Lobster wrote:
I have a plumber who works for me on occasions, doing work which has
included fitting gas boilers. This guy is now actually retired after
a
lifetime's plumbing, therefore doesn't have a CORGI ticket; so I have
had
the gas installations CORGI'd subsequently in order to remain
properly above
board.

So far so good; but today he tells me that he won't be able to fit
any more
boilers now due to new rules coming in in the new year. This is the
first
I've heard of this, can anyone enlighten me? He reckons that when
you buy a
new boiler after January, you'll need to sign your life away or
something,
and provide full details of who'll be fitting it etc etc; evidently
he's
been frightened off by this. He also told me about Part P
(electrical) in
the same breath, which I knew about, but which makes me think his
source may
be reliable.

Can anybody tell me more about this? I'm hoping to be able to
convince my
plumber friend he's wrong!

Thanks
David

Whilst browsing in the plumbing section of my local B+Q shed this
afternoon, I
came across a label attatched to a shelf displaying gas boilers. It
stated
that it is illegal for a gas boiler to be installed by an individual
unless
he/she is registered with CORGI. Maybe they check the customers corgi
card
when the boiler is presented at the till. ;-)

It is not AFAIK illegal due to the Gas Regs provided you are competant.

However heating appliances come under building regs and there will be issues
about self certification of compliance v. submitting a building notice.

This is going to be observed in the breach along with part P.

I'm surprised that you semi retired friend doesn't think that £200 annual
subscription and £400 liability insurance can't be made to pay for itself
in the course of a year.
It might be that his exam passes are out of date and then he'd be looking
at some serious (£1-5k) to renew.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
It is not AFAIK illegal due to the Gas Regs provided you are competant.

True


I'm surprised that you semi retired friend doesn't think that £200 annual
subscription

B****y hell. It's only £112 for a Chartered Engineer. I would have thought
something under £100 was more in line.

How do bodies such as CORGI justify such exhorbitant fees ?

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:53:43 -0000, "Mike" wrote:


"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
It is not AFAIK illegal due to the Gas Regs provided you are competant.

True


I'm surprised that you semi retired friend doesn't think that £200 annual
subscription

B****y hell. It's only £112 for a Chartered Engineer. I would have thought
something under £100 was more in line.

How do bodies such as CORGI justify such exhorbitant fees ?


Because the law allows the HSE to approve a "class of persons" for the
purposes of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998.

It chooses to appoint CORGI, and only CORGI for this purpose.

If you look on the HSE web site, you will find that there have
periodically been objections to this, studies have been done, etc.
The outcome has been not to change this.

Therefore CORGI doesn't need to justify its fees within quite a margin
of reason.

Put a different way - Why does a dog lick its balls?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:53:43 -0000, "Mike" wrote:


"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
It is not AFAIK illegal due to the Gas Regs provided you are competant.

True


I'm surprised that you semi retired friend doesn't think that £200
annual
subscription

B****y hell. It's only £112 for a Chartered Engineer. I would have
thought
something under £100 was more in line.

How do bodies such as CORGI justify such exhorbitant fees ?


Because the law allows the HSE to approve a "class of persons" for the
purposes of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998.

It chooses to appoint CORGI, and only CORGI for this purpose.

If you look on the HSE web site, you will find that there have
periodically been objections to this, studies have been done, etc.
The outcome has been not to change this.

Therefore CORGI doesn't need to justify its fees within quite a margin
of reason.

But the IEE is the only body to charter electrical/electronic engineers and
the people needing the charter could probably afford far more yet aren't
ripped off like this.

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:36:01 -0000, "Mike" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

Because the law allows the HSE to approve a "class of persons" for the
purposes of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998.

It chooses to appoint CORGI, and only CORGI for this purpose.

If you look on the HSE web site, you will find that there have
periodically been objections to this, studies have been done, etc.
The outcome has been not to change this.

Therefore CORGI doesn't need to justify its fees within quite a margin
of reason.

But the IEE is the only body to charter electrical/electronic engineers and
the people needing the charter could probably afford far more yet aren't
ripped off like this.


Yes, but you don't *have* to be an IEE member in order to be an
electrical or electronics engineer. I don't know what proportion of
jobs in these fields require chartered engineer, but unless it has
changed dramatically in the last couple of years, it's not the
majority by a long way.

Whether that is the reason that IEE fees are low is hard to say, but
it's not really comparing apples with apples when you consider CORGI's
pseudo governmental role.

You do have to be a CORGI member in order to legally do gas fitting
professionally.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:

Put a different way - Why does a dog lick its balls?

To take away the taste of the food you insist on providing for it? :-)

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:36:01 -0000, "Mike" wrote:

But the IEE is the only body to charter electrical/electronic engineers

But how many chartered engineers _need_ to be chartered engineers?
There's some prestige to it, but almost none of them are required to
be so by any mandatory rule.

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:36:01 -0000, "Mike" wrote:

But the IEE is the only body to charter electrical/electronic engineers

But how many chartered engineers _need_ to be chartered engineers?
There's some prestige to it, but almost none of them are required to
be so by any mandatory rule.

In my industry (computing), people started getting excited about
it in the late 1980's with rumors of EU legislation requiring it
for certain things, related to signing products off from a liability
perspective IIRC. One or two EU countries (Austria springs to mind)
did see significant numbers of engineers going through charter
applications, but the whole EU initiative then died before it ever
got off the ground. The professional bodies (IoP in my case) still
keep pushing it, but no one else seems remotely interested now,
at least in my experience.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 9 Dec 2004 15:40:53 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:36:01 -0000, "Mike" wrote:

But the IEE is the only body to charter electrical/electronic engineers

But how many chartered engineers _need_ to be chartered engineers?
There's some prestige to it, but almost none of them are required to
be so by any mandatory rule.

In my industry (computing), people started getting excited about
it in the late 1980's with rumors of EU legislation requiring it
for certain things, related to signing products off from a liability
perspective IIRC. One or two EU countries (Austria springs to mind)
did see significant numbers of engineers going through charter
applications, but the whole EU initiative then died before it ever
got off the ground. The professional bodies (IoP in my case) still
keep pushing it, but no one else seems remotely interested now,
at least in my experience.

Institute of Plumbers?

That's for people doing networking and is Microsoft's view of Cisco.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
Andy Hall writes:
On 9 Dec 2004 15:40:53 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:
In my industry (computing), people started getting excited about
it in the late 1980's with rumors of EU legislation requiring it
for certain things, related to signing products off from a liability
perspective IIRC. One or two EU countries (Austria springs to mind)
did see significant numbers of engineers going through charter
applications, but the whole EU initiative then died before it ever
got off the ground. The professional bodies (IoP in my case) still
keep pushing it, but no one else seems remotely interested now,
at least in my experience.

Institute of Plumbers?

I doubt the Institute of Plumbers is entitled to award chartered status. :-)
No, Institute of Physics.

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:36:01 -0000, "Mike" wrote:

But the IEE is the only body to charter electrical/electronic engineers

ISTR Institue of Physics used to also award Chartered Engineer
status on behalf of IEE before IEE was granted permission to do
so itself. I don't know if they would still do that now.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:36:01 -0000, "Mike" wrote:

But the IEE is the only body to charter electrical/electronic engineers

But how many chartered engineers _need_ to be chartered engineers?
There's some prestige to it, but almost none of them are required to
be so by any mandatory rule.

Depends what you are doing - anything legal needs charter for instance.
Also it helps in presentations to governments.

But for many other engineering-based professions - especially civil
engineering, architecture and so on, it is almost impossible to practice
without a charter.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:16:36 -0000, "Mike" wrote:


"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:36:01 -0000, "Mike" wrote:

But the IEE is the only body to charter electrical/electronic engineers

But how many chartered engineers _need_ to be chartered engineers?
There's some prestige to it, but almost none of them are required to
be so by any mandatory rule.

Depends what you are doing - anything legal needs charter for instance.
Also it helps in presentations to governments.

But for many other engineering-based professions - especially civil
engineering, architecture and so on, it is almost impossible to practice
without a charter.



Personally, I prefer to get it right rather than to practice :-)



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mike" wrote in message
...



Depends what you are doing - anything legal needs charter for instance.
Also it helps in presentations to governments.

That's been the raison d'etre when trying to persuade members of
associations to apply for a charter, in my experience.

But when it's been successful it's never worked with governments :-(

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Mike" wrote in message
...

Depends what you are doing - anything legal needs charter for instance.
Also it helps in presentations to governments.

That's been the raison d'etre when trying to persuade members of
associations to apply for a charter, in my experience.

But when it's been successful it's never worked with governments :-(


Not here anyway. But in France it is essential to have gone to the right
sort of schools to move up the political ladder. We have that here a bit of
course (Eton and so on) but these are state schools that choose on ability
those likely to be able to lead a country.