"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Brian Sharrock
writes

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:49:39 -0800, Rob Graham wrote:

Andy Hall wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:43:21 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote
| (Said he, fed up because the Times has turned exclusively tabloid
| this week - don't know what the world's coming to.

I wonder if they'll have a special Reader Offer for tabloid-sized
budgerigar
cages and cat litter trays, as the new paper will not fit readers'
existing
receptacles without Sellotaping sections together.

Owain



What's the format of the Scotsman these days?

I can claim Scots descent at least, although perhaps this paper isn't


entirely suitable for sassenachs (or saesneg if you prefer )

Regretably it has gone the same way.

What a wonderful collection of silver surfers we have here. I always
thought this NG was full of people younger than I (~60) but I clearly
see that you are all pushing along too.


Clearly from the number of people whose memory was awoken to the
"compass
in the heel shoe". There must be a lot of us in the 45-50 range.

IMHO; there's another group as well; too old to have had 'compass'
shoes bought for them.

You mean the ones who refused to buy them for us ?
(well until worn down in a war of attrition )

I could never wear down my parents.

Our children could never wear us down.

Of eight grandchildren five can wear down their parents.

None of them can wear us down - but they still keep trying.

Mary

--
geoff

Chris wrote:

Oh, I expected to be able to 'browse' to the wood screws if you
see what I mean.

Yes, so did I. I resorted to the search engine when I couldn't find a link
to wood screws (or woodscrews!).

In fact even armed with your help (i.e. search for 'wood screws')
it's still well nigh impossible to find anything useful. 251 'hits' and
no easy way to look through them. I want to be able to go to a
type of screw and then get what I want rather than have to try and
guess a search string that will find what I want (maybe).

The search engine is a bit primitive and it doesn't seem to accept
wildcards. However, once you have found 'wood screws', you can refine your
search by referring to the terminology used, e.g. CSK = Countersunk, RSD =
Raised Head, 5.5M X 65M = 5.5mm dia. x 65mm long, etc. I guess the 'M'
stands for Metric.

I found my No.12 x 2.1/2" c/sunk woods screws by using the search strings
'wood screw 5.5M CSK' and 'wood screw NO 12 CSK'. I then scrolled through
the 30 or so hits to find the (metric) length I required.
--
Mike
-Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your
reply-

Nigel M wrote:

I've never had a problem, just use a good plug (e.g. Rawlplug
or Fischer) and the maximum size of screw that the fitting
will take.

I still maintain that the traditional design wood screw, with its gradual,
full-length taper and full diameter shank cannot be beaten for use with wall
plugs.

It is the continuous, uniform expansion of the wall plug caused by the
'wedge-effect' of the slow taper that gives the secure fixing.

And Unifix wallplugs are, IMHO, amongst the best (just remember to push them
a few mm below the surface).

These fancy modern screws, with their reduced shanks and deep, sharp
threads, just seem inferior and prone to stripping the centre out of the
wall plug, especially those horrid, modern, grey plastic plugs.

Guess that makes me a Luddite :-)
--
Mike
-Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your
reply-

"mlv" wrote in message
...
Nigel M wrote:

I've never had a problem, just use a good plug (e.g. Rawlplug
or Fischer) and the maximum size of screw that the fitting
will take.

I still maintain that the traditional design wood screw, with its gradual,
full-length taper and full diameter shank cannot be beaten for use with
wall
plugs.

It is the continuous, uniform expansion of the wall plug caused by the
'wedge-effect' of the slow taper that gives the secure fixing.

And Unifix wallplugs are, IMHO, amongst the best (just remember to push
them
a few mm below the surface).

These fancy modern screws, with their reduced shanks and deep, sharp
threads, just seem inferior and prone to stripping the centre out of the
wall plug, especially those horrid, modern, grey plastic plugs.

Guess that makes me a Luddite :-)

There are still many of us who agree with you.

Mary
--
Mike
-Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your
reply-

mlv wrote:
Nigel M wrote:

I've never had a problem, just use a good plug (e.g. Rawlplug
or Fischer) and the maximum size of screw that the fitting
will take.

I still maintain that the traditional design wood screw, with its gradual,
full-length taper and full diameter shank cannot be beaten for use with wall
plugs.

It is the continuous, uniform expansion of the wall plug caused by the
'wedge-effect' of the slow taper that gives the secure fixing.

And Unifix wallplugs are, IMHO, amongst the best (just remember to push them
a few mm below the surface).

These fancy modern screws, with their reduced shanks and deep, sharp
threads, just seem inferior and prone to stripping the centre out of the
wall plug, especially those horrid, modern, grey plastic plugs.

I think you just need to use screws much closer to the size of the
hole than was traditional with the older style of screw. I usually
put 4mm screws in yellow plugs in 4.5mm holes. That's a much
'tighter' fit than one would have attempted with the older sort of
screw.

--
Chris Green

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
These fancy modern screws, with their reduced shanks and deep, sharp
threads, just seem inferior and prone to stripping the centre out of
the wall plug, especially those horrid, modern, grey plastic plugs.

Guess that makes me a Luddite :-)

There are still many of us who agree with you.

Not me for one.

Old type woodscrews had a nasty habit of shearing - and that's if you
didn't chew up the slot first. Also, if using a power driver, far more
chance of the bit slipping. Injuries in industry dropped dramatically with
the change to pozidriv etc.

Also, modern screws grip better to any wood or chipboard etc. Their
stronger material allows a better thread/shank ratio.

If you've problems with a brick wall fixing giving way, then the screw
size is too short, too small, the hole is wrong, or you're using the wrong
type of plug.

The only time I now prefer slot screws is for ornamental purposes - like
with exposed brass hinges.

--
*Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Old type woodscrews had a nasty habit of shearing - and that's if you
didn't chew up the slot first. Also, if using a power driver, far more
chance of the bit slipping. Injuries in industry dropped dramatically with
the change to pozidriv etc.

I don't think I've ever sheared an old style steel woodscrew, other than
seriously rusty ones I've tried to remove. I've sheared a few brass ones
though. I've also sheared a few of these modern thin-shanked, hardened
screws too, probably because the hardening process was incorrectly done,
leaving the shanks brittle.

I'm not a great fan of power driving screws for wall fixings, especially if
the screw is slotted. I like to feel what is going on. For serious fixings I
use a short-crank carpenter's ratchet brace with a good quality parallel
blade bit in the chuck. Lots of pressure and leverage, lots of feedback and
control and no batteries to charge :-)

Also, modern screws grip better to any wood or chipboard etc.
Their stronger material allows a better thread/shank ratio.

Agreed. I said as much in my originating post.

If you've problems with a brick wall fixing giving way, then the screw
size is too short, too small, the hole is wrong, or you're using the wrong
type of plug.

Except that I used the manufacturer's supplied screws and wallplugs and the
correct size drill. The result was loose screws and reamed wallplugs.

The only time I now prefer slot screws is for ornamental purposes
- like with exposed brass hinges.

I hope you align all the slots.
--
Mike
-Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your
reply-

"mlv" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

The only time I now prefer slot screws is for ornamental purposes
- like with exposed brass hinges.

I hope you align all the slots.

LOL!

Reminds me of father in law who always put his hub caps on with the 'W' the
same way up and couldn't understand why they kept changing ...

Mary

In article ,
mlv wrote:
If you've problems with a brick wall fixing giving way, then the screw
size is too short, too small, the hole is wrong, or you're using the
wrong type of plug.

Except that I used the manufacturer's supplied screws and wallplugs and
the correct size drill. The result was loose screws and reamed wallplugs.

Ah. I don't think I've *ever* found supplied screws and plugs any use for
the purpose intended. They're never long enough to go through the average
thickness of plaster and into brick properly. Think if they can save
0.00000000000001p they will.

The only time I now prefer slot screws is for ornamental purposes -
like with exposed brass hinges.

I hope you align all the slots.

Naturally.

--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
Reminds me of father in law who always put his hub caps on with the 'W'
the same way up and couldn't understand why they kept changing ...

The latest 'BMW' Rolls Royce has the wheel badges weighted so they stay
upright. Or knowing BMW, gyroscopically stabilised.

--
*Reality is the illusion that occurs due to the lack of alcohol *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Ah. I don't think I've *ever* found supplied screws and plugs any
use for the purpose intended. They're never long enough to go
through the average thickness of plaster and into brick properly.
Think if they can save 0.00000000000001p they will.

Problem solved - thank goodness for car boot sales!

1 x box No.12 x 2.1/2" 'proper' c/sunk woodscrews for £1.00.

BTW, I think this is one of the longest threads (no pun) I have ever
initiated, even if it did wander way off target when the 'nostalgia brigade'
hijacked it :-)
--
Mike
-Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your
reply-

In article ,
mlv wrote:
Problem solved - thank goodness for car boot sales!

1 x box No.12 x 2.1/2" 'proper' c/sunk woodscrews for £1.00.

If you really want old style screws of many sizes you're welcome to the
ones I've got left. Many pretty large ones, and quite a few.

--
*If you can read this, thank a teecher

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

If you really want old style screws of many sizes you're
welcome to the ones I've got left. Many pretty large ones,
and quite a few.

Thanks for the kind offer, Dave

I do have loads of the 'old style' woodscrews myself. It's just that in
traditional Sod's Law fashion, I never seem to have the size I actually need
(No.12 x 2.1/2", in this instance).

I still have old tobacco tins full of various size woodscrews left over from
the sixties, when I was an apprentice electrician (no, I didn't smoke -
girlfriend's father used to donate his empty baccy tins). Jolly useful
storage containers, those old metal tobacco tins.

A friend who found the No.12 x 2.1/2" woodscrews for me at the car boot sale
said the seller had loads of them and they were selling surprisingly fast.
Collector's items, I suppose.
--
Mike
-Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your
reply-

In article ,
mlv wrote:
I do have loads of the 'old style' woodscrews myself. It's just that in
traditional Sod's Law fashion, I never seem to have the size I actually need
(No.12 x 2.1/2", in this instance).

Can't help there.

I've got 3.5, 3, and 2" all in 12. No 2.5 ;-)

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.