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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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A Decent Screw!
Does anyone know where I can buy some traditional #12 x 2.1/2" zinc-plated
steel c/sunk woodscrews? Everyone (and I do mean everyone) seems to only stock these fancy hardened, twin-threaded, gold-plated, reduced shank, pozi-headed, etc. screws that may be just wonderful for screwing into wood, but are (IMHO) quite inadequate when used with plastic wallplugs. They simply don't give the firm, reliable grip of the traditional woodscrew and seem rather prone to ripping the centre out of the wallplug. I've tried all the obvious suppliers without success and I guess I now need to find an old-fashioned hardware shop that still closes on a Wednesday afternoon. Brass and stainless steel c/sunk woodscrews still come in the traditional design, but brass would be too likely to shear off and I can't source any #12 x 2.1/2" in stainless steel. I only need 20 of them! Thanks -- Mike -Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your reply- |
#2
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mlv wrote:
Does anyone know where I can buy some traditional #12 x 2.1/2" zinc-plated steel c/sunk woodscrews? Everyone (and I do mean everyone) seems to only stock these fancy hardened, twin-threaded, gold-plated, reduced shank, pozi-headed, etc. screws that may be just wonderful for screwing into wood, but are (IMHO) quite inadequate when used with plastic wallplugs. They simply don't give the firm, reliable grip of the traditional woodscrew and seem rather prone to ripping the centre out of the wallplug. I've got hundreds of ScrewFix Goldscrews and Turbogold screws (both of the type you seem to dislike) in plastic plugs all around my house and my experience is that they seem to stay in better than old fashioned tapered screws. I find that I tend to use slightly smaller drills than recommended for the plugs and slightly smaller plugs than most other people seem to use. I now use far more yellow plugs than red and rarely use the bigger ones at all. I drill 4.5mm holes for yellow plugs, sometimes you can get away with 4mm, it depends on the type of wall you're drilling into. The plugs should be easy to just tap into the hole. I then use 3.5mm or 4mm screws in the yellow plugs and, as I said, have had no problems at all with their security. I really can't imagine what I'd want to fix with big plastic plugs. Even one of those monitor shelves on a flexible arm is only fixed with red plugs and 5mm screws and seems perfectly sound even with a heavyish monitor on it. -- Chris Green |
#3
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Even one of those monitor shelves on a flexible arm is only fixed with
red plugs and 5mm screws and seems perfectly sound even with a heavyish monitor on it. I use 5mm or 6mm screws into brown plugs myself, drilled with a 6.5mm SDS bit. The yellow plugs scare me for anothing bigger than holding up a paper calendar. If I'm doing anything heavy, like kitchen cupboards, then I go for the full rawlbolt. Why do you go for the smaller rawlplugs? It's not like screws or plugs are expensive. Christian. |
#4
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Christian McArdle wrote:
Even one of those monitor shelves on a flexible arm is only fixed with red plugs and 5mm screws and seems perfectly sound even with a heavyish monitor on it. I use 5mm or 6mm screws into brown plugs myself, drilled with a 6.5mm SDS bit. The yellow plugs scare me for anothing bigger than holding up a paper calendar. If I'm doing anything heavy, like kitchen cupboards, then I go for the full rawlbolt. Why do you go for the smaller rawlplugs? It's not like screws or plugs are expensive. Because almost everything I fix uses 3.5 or 4mm screws and these hold best in 4mm plugs in my experience. You can hang a heck of a lot of weight on just a single 4mm screw. A quick calculation suggests that a 4mm screw's tensile breaking strain will be almost a ton (probably more than a ton if it's stronger than mild steel), so the screw isn't going to break with any remotely normal load on it. I find that yellow plugs with 4mm screws are just about immovable. -- Chris Green |
#5
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I find that yellow plugs with 4mm screws are just about immovable.
It may depend on your walls. If you've got soft brick and 100 year old plaster, a yellow plug has as much chance of staying in as one of those really scary nailed picture hooks (i.e. 5 minutes if you're lucky). It wouldn't even reach the brick and the plaster can be picked out with a finger. Christian. |
#6
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Christian McArdle wrote:
I find that yellow plugs with 4mm screws are just about immovable. It may depend on your walls. If you've got soft brick and 100 year old plaster, a yellow plug has as much chance of staying in as one of those really scary nailed picture hooks (i.e. 5 minutes if you're lucky). It wouldn't even reach the brick and the plaster can be picked out with a finger. As I said elsewhere I do make sure the plug is in the brick if I'm fixing something heavy. As I very frequently use 4 x 40mm screws with yellow plugs it's easy enough to get them 'below the plaster'. -- Chris Green |
#7
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wrote in message ...
mlv wrote: I find that I tend to use slightly smaller drills than recommended for the plugs and slightly smaller plugs than most other people seem to use. I now use far more yellow plugs than red and rarely use the bigger ones at all. I drill 4.5mm holes for yellow plugs, sometimes you can get away with 4mm, it depends on the type of wall you're drilling into. The plugs should be easy to just tap into the hole. I then use 3.5mm or 4mm screws in the yellow plugs and, as I said, have had no problems at all with their security. I really can't imagine what I'd want to fix with big plastic plugs. I'm guessing you live in a modern house with solid brickwork and maybe sand-cement render on the internal walls?! I hardly ever use yellow plugs, simply because they aren't deep enough to get through the half-inch layer of powdery plaster which was applied about a century ago, and wouldn't take any sort of weight whatsoever. David |
#8
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Lobster wrote:
I then use 3.5mm or 4mm screws in the yellow plugs and, as I said, have had no problems at all with their security. I really can't imagine what I'd want to fix with big plastic plugs. I'm guessing you live in a modern house with solid brickwork and maybe sand-cement render on the internal walls?! I hardly ever use yellow plugs, simply because they aren't deep enough to get through the half-inch layer of powdery plaster which was applied about a century ago, and wouldn't take any sort of weight whatsoever. Well push them further in then! There's no requirement that the plug has to be flush with the surface. Or you can put two plugs in if using really long screws. My 'standard' screw tends to to a 4 x 40mm, that's pretty similar to an 8 x 1.5" but a bit longer. If there's half an inch of plaster then a yellow plug will nestle neatly down below the plaster. As it happens my house was built in the 1920s. -- Chris Green |
#9
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In article ,
"mlv" writes: I've tried all the obvious suppliers without success and I guess I now need to find an old-fashioned hardware shop that still closes on a Wednesday afternoon. If you're anywhere near Fleet, Hampshire, then Bakers in the main shopping road (Fleet Road) is one of the few left. Just don't come on a Wednesday afternoon (and I'm not joking;-) -- Andrew Gabriel |
#11
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In article ,
Andy Hall writes: On 3 Nov 2004 10:50:36 GMT, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: In article , "mlv" writes: I've tried all the obvious suppliers without success and I guess I now need to find an old-fashioned hardware shop that still closes on a Wednesday afternoon. If you're anywhere near Fleet, Hampshire, then Bakers in the main shopping road (Fleet Road) is one of the few left. Just don't come on a Wednesday afternoon (and I'm not joking;-) Do they have one of those systems with wires across the ceiling with little pots carrying the money to the cashier? No -- there's too much merchandise hanging from the ceiling for one of those to work. They do add up the cost of the items using paper and pencil though -- I can't recall there being a till in the shop, or at least if there is, it isn't used for adding up the totals. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#13
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In article ,
Andy Hall writes: Do they have one of those systems with wires across the ceiling with little pots carrying the money to the cashier? No -- there's too much merchandise hanging from the ceiling for one of those to work. I haven't seen one for years. When I was a kid, all the shoe shops had them. The V&A had a moch-up of a shop some years back, probably based on 1920's, with a working one of these. Pull a cord, and the cannister was pinged across the ceiling on a cable. As a kid, I recall a number of the stores in Reading using vacuum tubes with cylindrical canisters, which took your money to the cashier, and returned the change. Modern versions of these are still used in supermarkets and the like for carrying excess cash back from the tills, but not for individual customer transactions. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#14
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In article ,
am says... On 3 Nov 2004 11:28:46 GMT, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: In article , Andy Hall writes: On 3 Nov 2004 10:50:36 GMT, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: In article , "mlv" writes: I've tried all the obvious suppliers without success and I guess I now need to find an old-fashioned hardware shop that still closes on a Wednesday afternoon. If you're anywhere near Fleet, Hampshire, then Bakers in the main shopping road (Fleet Road) is one of the few left. Just don't come on a Wednesday afternoon (and I'm not joking;-) Do they have one of those systems with wires across the ceiling with little pots carrying the money to the cashier? No -- there's too much merchandise hanging from the ceiling for one of those to work. I haven't seen one for years. When I was a kid, all the shoe shops had them. snip ............and a machime to x-ray your feet -- Paul Mc Cann |
#15
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"Andy Hall" wrote
| Andrew Gabriel wrote: | Do they have one of those systems with wires across the ceiling | with little pots carrying the money to the cashier? | No -- there's too much merchandise hanging from the ceiling | for one of those to work. | I haven't seen one for years. When I was a kid, all the shoe | shops had them. I can remember the shoe shop used when I was little having a cuckoo-clock, which fascinated me greatly and meant that shoe-buying trips had to be synchronised to the hour :-) | They do add up the cost of the items | using paper and pencil though -- I can't recall there being a | till in the shop, or at least if there is, it isn't used for | adding up the totals. They'll have problems recruiting staff under 40 with that skill. I expect they have to convert to decimal every time they find a really old box of something in t'back still priced at £4 19s 6d. (Paying cash sir? We'll drop the odd farthing then.) Owain |
#16
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In article ,
mlv wrote: Everyone (and I do mean everyone) seems to only stock these fancy hardened, twin-threaded, gold-plated, reduced shank, pozi-headed, etc. screws that may be just wonderful for screwing into wood, but are (IMHO) quite inadequate when used with plastic wallplugs. They simply don't give the firm, reliable grip of the traditional woodscrew and seem rather prone to ripping the centre out of the wallplug. Then you're using the wrong wall plugs, or wrong sized drill. -- *There are two sides to every divorce: Yours and **** head's* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#17
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Dave Plowman wrote:
Then you're using the wrong wall plugs, or wrong sized drill. I'm mounting some (very) heavy duty TV wall brackets. The screws and plugs came with the brackets, as did the drilling/fixing instructions. The wallplugs were those awful flimsy grey things, mostly hollow and with little sticky-out prongs. Internal walls are breeze (clinker) block with cement render. My initial instinct (which I should have followed) was to bin the grey wallplugs and use the superior brown Unifix plugs. However, I decided to use the supplied plugs and screws. The holes were drilled exactly as instructed and the screws where tightened........... well that's the problem, they never actually achieved tight. Certainly, if I had drilled a hole smaller than was specified and hammered the plugs home, then the screws would have gripped better. Much better however, would be to use a system I know works well: Unifix plastic wallplugs and traditional woodscrews. -- Mike -Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your reply- |
#18
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I'm mounting some (very) heavy duty TV wall brackets. The screws and
plugs came with the brackets, as did the drilling/fixing instructions. I don't think I have ever used screws and plugs that came with something. They are almost by definition, utterly unusable. Much better however, would be to use a system I know works well: Unifix plastic wallplugs and traditional woodscrews. Indeed, but you can use moderns screws, too. The failure in the supplied parts was because they were bought by the manufacturer for 0.0000000001p and they got what they paid for. Christian. |
#19
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mlv wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote: Then you're using the wrong wall plugs, or wrong sized drill. I'm mounting some (very) heavy duty TV wall brackets. The screws and plugs came with the brackets, as did the drilling/fixing instructions. I nearly always don't use the supplied screws and plugs. They are often rather poor quality and too short. The wallplugs were those awful flimsy grey things, mostly hollow and with little sticky-out prongs. Internal walls are breeze (clinker) block with cement render. Ah, breeze block can be difficult. I'd just go for extra long 5mm screws for this sort of weight on it. Much better however, would be to use a system I know works well: Unifix plastic wallplugs and traditional woodscrews. I guess that's where we both are, we're familiar with a particular pairing of wallplug and screw that works well. It makes sense to stay using that and not to use plugs supplied simply because one will be better at working with the familiar ones. I have a big 'trade case' of TurbGold screws so I always have the 'right' screw for virtually any application. It cost £50 or so but I've never regretted buying it, it saves so much time finding screws for this job and that job over the years. I'm replacing ones that I run out of with stainless steel ones now. -- Chris Green |
#20
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Try www.a2a4.co.uk - they do a lot of stainless screws,
both traditional woodscrews - as well as the new versions. They also do small stainless hinges, useful for windows. |
#21
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dorothy wrote:
Try www.a2a4.co.uk - they do a lot of stainless screws, both traditional woodscrews - as well as the new versions. I can't see any woodscrews at all on their web site. -- Chris Green |
#22
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Chris wrote:
Dorothy wrote: Try www.a2a4.co.uk - they do a lot of stainless screws, both traditional woodscrews - as well as the new versions. I can't see any woodscrews at all on their web site. I can! Thanks Dot, they have the metric equivalent of #12 x 2.1/2" (5.5 x 65mm). Mind you, they haven't replied to my e-mail asking for confirmation that these screws are the traditional style woodscrew. Chris - A2A4's search engine is not too hot and it don't cross-reference common names/descriptors. Search for 'wood screws' and you'll get lots of hits. Search for 'woodscrews' and you'll get none. Similarly, search for 'countersunk' or 'c/sunk' and you'll get no hits. Search for 'CSK' and you'll get loads. -- Mike -Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your reply- |
#23
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mlv wrote:
Chris wrote: Dorothy wrote: Try www.a2a4.co.uk - they do a lot of stainless screws, both traditional woodscrews - as well as the new versions. I can't see any woodscrews at all on their web site. I can! Thanks Dot, they have the metric equivalent of #12 x 2.1/2" (5.5 x 65mm). Mind you, they haven't replied to my e-mail asking for confirmation that these screws are the traditional style woodscrew. Chris - A2A4's search engine is not too hot and it don't cross-reference common names/descriptors. Search for 'wood screws' and you'll get lots of hits. Search for 'woodscrews' and you'll get none. Similarly, search for 'countersunk' or 'c/sunk' and you'll get no hits. Search for 'CSK' and you'll get loads. Oh, I expected to be able to 'browse' to the wood screws if you see what I mean. I very rarely use site search engines as they're often (as you say) rubbish. I just browsed through the links on their site and none of them took me to wood screws. In fact even armed with your help (i.e. search for 'wood screws') it's still well nigh impossible to find anything useful. 251 'hits' and no easy way to look through them. I want to be able to go to a type of screw and then get what I want rather than have to try and guess a search string that will find what I want (maybe). -- Chris Green |
#24
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Chris wrote:
Oh, I expected to be able to 'browse' to the wood screws if you see what I mean. Yes, so did I. I resorted to the search engine when I couldn't find a link to wood screws (or woodscrews!). In fact even armed with your help (i.e. search for 'wood screws') it's still well nigh impossible to find anything useful. 251 'hits' and no easy way to look through them. I want to be able to go to a type of screw and then get what I want rather than have to try and guess a search string that will find what I want (maybe). The search engine is a bit primitive and it doesn't seem to accept wildcards. However, once you have found 'wood screws', you can refine your search by referring to the terminology used, e.g. CSK = Countersunk, RSD = Raised Head, 5.5M X 65M = 5.5mm dia. x 65mm long, etc. I guess the 'M' stands for Metric. I found my No.12 x 2.1/2" c/sunk woods screws by using the search strings 'wood screw 5.5M CSK' and 'wood screw NO 12 CSK'. I then scrolled through the 30 or so hits to find the (metric) length I required. -- Mike -Please remove 'safetycatch' from e-mail address before firing off your reply- |
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