On 15 Oct 2004, dave wrote

I want to make a glass sided case to show the workings of a double
escapment (grand )piano action. Is anyone out there breaking one
or have one for sale? I just want a single key (maybe two).Will
pay a reasonable cost+pp of course. (This sort of thing isn't
available on ebay :-) so apols if is OT)

Can't help personally, but if you rang 'round to the piano tuners in
your area you might find one with a lead to a junked grand or parts
thereof.

(The piano tuner I use here in Basingstoke has a sideline in
reconditioned pianos; I'd be surprised if that's not the case
elsewhere.)

--
Cheers,
Harvey

(The piano tuner I use here in Basingstoke has a sideline in
reconditioned pianos; I'd be surprised if that's not the case
elsewhere.)

Roughly how much should it cost to have a piano tuned?

My mother's sounds like an East End knees-up and could do with a bit of
twiddling before Christmas.

Christian.

On 15 Oct 2004, Christian McArdle wrote

(The piano tuner I use here in Basingstoke has a sideline in
reconditioned pianos; I'd be surprised if that's not the case
elsewhere.)

Roughly how much should it cost to have a piano tuned?

It's just gone up from £40 to £42 (it was done last week). I have it
done twice a year.

My mother's sounds like an East End knees-up and could do with a
bit of twiddling before Christmas.

If it's really out of tune, it'll probably need at least two tunings to
get it back into correct pitch. (Once to get it in fairly good tune;
then you let it slide back out for a couple of weeks and re-do it
again.)

As this is DIY, though, I should mention that many years ago I owned a
piano that was so bad -- couldn't hold a tune at all -- that I couldn't
find a tuner who was interested in dealing with it. I bought a tuning
wrench (called a tuning "hammer", I think -- I still have it), and at
least got the strings into relative tune with one another -- albeit a
half or full tone down from where it should have been tuned.

--
Cheers,
Harvey

I bought a tuning wrench (called a tuning "hammer", I think --
I still have it), and at least got the strings into relative
tune with one another -- albeit a half or full tone down from
where it should have been tuned.

I don't think it is that bad!

It's just that it evokes that lock-in at the pub for "roll out the barrel"
feeling, which isn't appropriate for Grieg or Rachmaninov.

Christian.

On 15 Oct 2004, Christian McArdle wrote

I bought a tuning wrench (called a tuning "hammer", I think --
I still have it), and at least got the strings into relative
tune with one another -- albeit a half or full tone down from
where it should have been tuned.

I don't think it is that bad!

It's just that it evokes that lock-in at the pub for "roll out the
barrel" feeling, which isn't appropriate for Grieg or Rachmaninov.

Oh, I dunno: I rather fancy the idea of "now I'm gonna play a li'l bi'
of yer honky-tonk Rokkers"...

--
Cheers,
Harvey

It's just gone up from £40 to £42 (it was done last week). I have it
done twice a year.

Do you know how much extra it is to adjust the action? I imagine it is due
for that. The keys are all at different heights, for a start!

Christian.

On 15 Oct 2004, Christian McArdle wrote

It's just gone up from £40 to £42 (it was done last week). I
have it done twice a year.

Do you know how much extra it is to adjust the action? I imagine
it is due for that. The keys are all at different heights, for a
start!

No idea; sorry. (I've never needed to have that done, but I can
imagine it takes a tad longer than the hour or so it takes to do the
semi-annual tuning!)

--
Cheers,
Harvey

In message , Christian
McArdle writes
(The piano tuner I use here in Basingstoke has a sideline in
reconditioned pianos; I'd be surprised if that's not the case
elsewhere.)

Roughly how much should it cost to have a piano tuned?

My mother's sounds like an East End knees-up and could do with a bit of
twiddling before Christmas.

Aren't you oop north ?

I have a friend who normally does mine for free, so I don't know, but
could find out

I have tuned my piano myself, and it was reasonably successful (but you
do need a reasonably good or trained ear) - I was quite surprised at how
well it came out with regard to even tempered tuning

One important question is whether you are ever going to play it with
other instruments, if not, you can tune it to the average of it's tuning
rather than trying to pull it up to concert pitch which would be more
difficult and would need several attempts over a period of time as it
settles down
--
geoff

I really do suggest that you have a go yourself, if the keys are at
different heights, it sounds like you can't do much more damage than
already exists

There are lots of books about tuning and overhauling pianos. Have a look
in
your local Library.

I'll certainly think about it. Time is at a premium, however, and I'm not
particularly musical myself. It would certainly require some electronic
help.

Christian.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote:

I really do suggest that you have a go yourself, if the keys are at
different heights, it sounds like you can't do much more damage than
already exists

There are lots of books about tuning and overhauling pianos. Have a
look in your local Library.

I'll certainly think about it. Time is at a premium, however, and I'm
not particularly musical myself. It would certainly require some
electronic help.

Christian.

The mechanical bits - like levelling the keyboard and adjusting the action -
shouldn't be too difficult. Tuning is another matter though! I suspect that
its one of those things like plastering - where you have to do a *lot* of it
to become any good. There is certainly a black art in getting an
equi-tempered scale, including getting the right beat frequency between
harmonics. There is also a technique required to slightly over-tighten each
string, and then ease off a bit so that pin friction is on your side when it
comes to holding the tune. Then there's the practice of tuning the top end
notes slightly sharp so that they *sound* right!

I think that there are electronic frequency generators which may help with
some of this - but I suspect that *proper* piano tuners don't use them.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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In message , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote:

I really do suggest that you have a go yourself, if the keys are at
different heights, it sounds like you can't do much more damage than
already exists

There are lots of books about tuning and overhauling pianos. Have a
look in your local Library.

I'll certainly think about it. Time is at a premium, however, and I'm
not particularly musical myself. It would certainly require some
electronic help.

Christian.

The mechanical bits - like levelling the keyboard and adjusting the action -
shouldn't be too difficult.

Yes, just time consuming

Tuning is another matter though! I suspect that
its one of those things like plastering - where you have to do a *lot* of it
to become any good.

It really depends on how good an ear you have. Also don't forget, you
have to have a tool to dampen the two strings you're not actually
tuning.

There is certainly a black art in getting an
equi-tempered scale, including getting the right beat frequency between
harmonics.

Yes piano tuners work on beats, but the way I did it was to get one
octave to be (what I considered to be ) even tempered, and then tuned
the other octaves to it

There is also a technique required to slightly over-tighten each
string, and then ease off a bit so that pin friction is on your side when it
comes to holding the tune.

Yes, you should do this with any stringed instrument. To be honest, I
didn't find it to be much of a problem. I expect it depends on the
quality of the wood the pin is set into

Then there's the practice of tuning the top end
notes slightly sharp so that they *sound* right!

I think that there are electronic frequency generators which may help with
some of this - but I suspect that *proper* piano tuners don't use them.

A bit like a brickie using one of those gadgets to lay his bricks
correctly - no chance


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--
geoff

On 18 Oct 2004, raden wrote
In message , Set Square
writes

-snip-

There is also a technique required to slightly over-tighten each
string, and then ease off a bit so that pin friction is on your
side when it comes to holding the tune.

Yes, you should do this with any stringed instrument. To be
honest, I didn't find it to be much of a problem. I expect it
depends on the quality of the wood the pin is set into

As an aside, this applies to almost any fine-tuning of any mechanical
device.

Offhand, I can't think of any case where the standard practice isn't to
move a control just beyond the desired point, and then to bring it back
to where it should be.

--
Cheers,
Harvey

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:08:40 GMT, Harvey Van Sickle
wrote:

Offhand, I can't think of any case where the standard practice isn't to
move a control just beyond the desired point, and then to bring it back
to where it should be.

Anything with backlash. There are a lot of adjustments where you must
always approach them from the same side, either because there's a
clearance that will tend to close up over time if you don't do it
first, or else just for consistency.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Dingley wrote:

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:08:40 GMT, Harvey Van Sickle
wrote:

Offhand, I can't think of any case where the standard practice isn't
to move a control just beyond the desired point, and then to bring
it back to where it should be.

Anything with backlash.


Or hysteresis - as in the case of a piano string, wound round a pin held by
friction.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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In message , Andy Dingley
writes
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:08:40 GMT, Harvey Van Sickle
wrote:

Offhand, I can't think of any case where the standard practice isn't to
move a control just beyond the desired point, and then to bring it back
to where it should be.

Anything with backlash. There are a lot of adjustments where you must
always approach them from the same side, either because there's a
clearance that will tend to close up over time if you don't do it
first, or else just for consistency.

AKA hysteresis


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http://www.diyprojects.info

--
geoff