The plumber who installed a boiler for one of my customers (finally
after months of waiting) still has not been to finish off the work and
sign the paperwork.

Tomorrow I am going to ring corgi to see if there is anything they can
do.
I suspect not as there isn't anything wrong with the work as is stands.
I have spoken to another plumber (corgi) who is willing to finish off
the work and sign off the benchmark form etc.

What I am worried about is that the form says 'installer'; except for a
few small bits of work the boiler is 'installed'. Will the new plumber
suffice as the 'installer'? Can he inspect the boiler and sign it off as
if he were the installer or will he have to dismantle everything to
ensure it has been done properly? He knows the original installer is
corgi registered and knows who he is and of his work.
Am I doing anything wrong and could the original plumber report me for
anything?

Worry worry
(Although I cant wit to tell the old plumber that I'll be deducting the
new guys fee from his final bill :- )
--
mark

"mark" wrote in message
...
The plumber who installed a boiler for one of my customers (finally
after months of waiting) still has not been to finish off the work and
sign the paperwork.

Tomorrow I am going to ring corgi to see if there is anything they can
do.
I suspect not as there isn't anything wrong with the work as is stands.
I have spoken to another plumber (corgi) who is willing to finish off
the work and sign off the benchmark form etc.

What I am worried about is that the form says 'installer'; except for a
few small bits of work the boiler is 'installed'. Will the new plumber
suffice as the 'installer'? Can he inspect the boiler and sign it off as
if he were the installer or will he have to dismantle everything to
ensure it has been done properly? He knows the original installer is
corgi registered and knows who he is and of his work.
Am I doing anything wrong and could the original plumber report me for
anything?

Worry worry
(Although I cant wit to tell the old plumber that I'll be deducting the
new guys fee from his final bill :- )

If he hasn't finished the job he's hasn't kept to contract so you're under
no real obligation to pay him at all.



--
mark

In message , G&M
writes


If he hasn't finished the job he's hasn't kept to contract so you're under
no real obligation to pay him at all.


True enough.
He has actually done most of the work now.
I rang him in May to tell him I would like him there for July.
Rang him in the middle of June and he said he was going on holiday in
July and couldn't make it until he got back.
Fair enough, I asked him to ring me back when he returned.
Last week of July I'd heard nothing so I rang him up again.
(Ringing him normally took at least half a dozen calls leaving messages
with his wife, machine and children; he has only actually rang me back a
couple of times).
Said he'd be there to measure up etc.
No sign so I actually turn up at his home address which causes him much
annoyance !
Middle of August he finally shows up to measure.
End of August shows up to do some of the work over a weekend.
By this time we've done every scrap of work we can possibly do except
boxing in the non existent pipes etc.
All that's left is the actual bits and bobs of the boiler and swapping
the unvented cylinder for the right one (which is standing there next to
the wrong one; but that's another very long story).
We haven't seen him for over 3 weeks now and I'm back to leaving
messages etc.



--
mark

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:31:37 +0100, mark wrote:

The plumber who installed a boiler for one of my customers (finally
after months of waiting) still has not been to finish off the work and
sign the paperwork.

Tomorrow I am going to ring corgi to see if there is anything they can
do.
I suspect not as there isn't anything wrong with the work as is stands.
I have spoken to another plumber (corgi) who is willing to finish off
the work and sign off the benchmark form etc.

What I am worried about is that the form says 'installer'; except for a
few small bits of work the boiler is 'installed'. Will the new plumber
suffice as the 'installer'? Can he inspect the boiler and sign it off as
if he were the installer or will he have to dismantle everything to
ensure it has been done properly? He knows the original installer is
corgi registered and knows who he is and of his work.
Am I doing anything wrong and could the original plumber report me for
anything?

Worry worry
(Although I cant wit to tell the old plumber that I'll be deducting the
new guys fee from his final bill :- )

The benchmark form allows for the installer and commissioner to be
different.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:31:37 +0100, mark wrote:

(Although I cant wit to tell the old plumber that I'll be deducting the
new guys fee from his final bill :- )

The benchmark form allows for the installer and commissioner to be
different.


Since there is no reason for the first one to be paid and the second is
happy with his bill you should write and tell the original that though
he doesn't need the money, he may phone you to make arrangements to
recieve it.

It would be nice to find how eager he will become, to please an old and
honoured customer.

Keep us informed how long he keeps it up before he gets the message.

Don't put anything in writing though. BTW has he got anything in writing
from you?


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

In article lgate.org,
Michael Mcneil writes
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:31:37 +0100, mark wrote:

(Although I cant wit to tell the old plumber that I'll be deducting the
new guys fee from his final bill :- )

The benchmark form allows for the installer and commissioner to be
different.


Since there is no reason for the first one to be paid and the second is
happy with his bill you should write and tell the original that though
he doesn't need the money, he may phone you to make arrangements to
recieve it.

It would be nice to find how eager he will become, to please an old and
honoured customer.

Keep us informed how long he keeps it up before he gets the message.



Don't put anything in writing though. BTW has he got anything in writing
from you?


Why should that be a problem?......
--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:53:30 +0100, mark
wrote:

In message , G&M
writes


If he hasn't finished the job he's hasn't kept to contract so you're under
no real obligation to pay him at all.


True enough.
He has actually done most of the work now.

Hi,

Unless a contract states otherwise, you have to pay him in part for
the work done. But the threat of non payment might help him to finish
the job :^)

cheers,
Pete.

In message .uk, Ed
Sirett writes
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:31:37 +0100, mark wrote:


The benchmark form allows for the installer and commissioner to be
different.

The commissioning ill be carried out by the suppliers (eco-hometec).
They won't start the ball rolling until I return the benchmark form
completed by the installer.
I phoned corgi today and they didn't have a problem with me getting a
different corgi plumber to check it over finish off the minor stuff and
sign it off.
--
mark

In message lgate.org,
Michael Mcneil writes
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:31:37 +0100, mark wrote:

(Although I cant wit to tell the old plumber that I'll be deducting the
new guys fee from his final bill :- )

The benchmark form allows for the installer and commissioner to be
different.


Since there is no reason for the first one to be paid and the second is
happy with his bill you should write and tell the original that though
he doesn't need the money, he may phone you to make arrangements to
recieve it.

It would be nice to find how eager he will become, to please an old and
honoured customer.

Keep us informed how long he keeps it up before he gets the message.

Don't put anything in writing though. BTW has he got anything in writing
from you?


Well actually I was going to put it in writing to him.
I've tried phoning him but even his answering machine is off now.
Telling him that we are instructing a new plumber following a chat with
corgi and could he possibly send a fully itemised bill for the work he's
done already listing hours and materials for our consideration.

Did you have a reason in mind that would make writing a bad idea?



--
mark

In article , mark
writes
In message lgate.org,
Michael Mcneil writes
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:31:37 +0100, mark wrote:

(Although I cant wit to tell the old plumber that I'll be deducting the
new guys fee from his final bill :- )

The benchmark form allows for the installer and commissioner to be
different.


Since there is no reason for the first one to be paid and the second is
happy with his bill you should write and tell the original that though
he doesn't need the money, he may phone you to make arrangements to
recieve it.

It would be nice to find how eager he will become, to please an old and
honoured customer.

Keep us informed how long he keeps it up before he gets the message.

Don't put anything in writing though. BTW has he got anything in writing
from you?


Well actually I was going to put it in writing to him.
I've tried phoning him but even his answering machine is off now.
Telling him that we are instructing a new plumber following a chat with
corgi and could he possibly send a fully itemised bill for the work he's
done already listing hours and materials for our consideration.

Did you have a reason in mind that would make writing a bad idea?




Well if it were me I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, just tell him
that if he wants his money then he'd better get his botty round here en
tout sweet and get the job done, or else he can sing for it.....all of
it too....or see U in court...
--
Tony Sayer

"Pete C" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:53:30 +0100, mark
wrote:

In message , G&M
writes


If he hasn't finished the job he's hasn't kept to contract so you're
under
no real obligation to pay him at all.


True enough.
He has actually done most of the work now.

Hi,

Unless a contract states otherwise, you have to pay him in part for
the work done. But the threat of non payment might help him to finish
the job :^)

Not quite - under contract law if somebody doesn't complete the work, you
pay them for the work done less the cost of finding somebody to complete
that work - i.e. not the new worker's charges but your expenses in finding
that person.

However I'd still not pay him and tell him to sue you. Also ask the new
plumber for an opinion on the quality of work of the first guy. Any hint of
poor workmanship and he'd be best to stay quiet.

In message , tony sayer
writes




Well if it were me I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, just tell him
that if he wants his money then he'd better get his botty round here en
tout sweet and get the job done, or else he can sing for it.....all of
it too....or see U in court...

Basically that is what is going to happen.
The problem I've had up to now is finding a replacement plumber who was
willing to sort out someone else's work who could prove to me that he
was capable enough.
Now I've found one I can tell him so (the original plumber).


--
mark

In message , G&M
writes
Not quite - under contract law if somebody doesn't complete the work, you
pay them for the work done less the cost of finding somebody to complete
that work - i.e. not the new worker's charges but your expenses in finding
that person.

However I'd still not pay him and tell him to sue you. Also ask the new
plumber for an opinion on the quality of work of the first guy. Any hint of
poor workmanship and he'd be best to stay quiet.



Hmm. That was my understanding also.
I've wasted several hours hanging about on site, whilst I could have
been better occupied elsewhere; just fiddling really.
Rest assured these hours will be itemised in the deduction sheet I will
be applying to his fully itemised invoice for work done so far.
Be interesting to see how organised he can be when there's money
involved.
FYI the quote was for 4.5k ( I supplied the boiler, unvented cylinder
and bathroom suites) and he has received 2k already so there is 2.5k in
the kitty as far as I am concerned to pay the new plumber. He will be
paid on a time and materials basis out of the remainder of the work.
I look forward to informing the original plumber of this arrangement.
--
mark

In article , mark
writes
In message , tony sayer
writes




Well if it were me I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, just tell him
that if he wants his money then he'd better get his botty round here en
tout sweet and get the job done, or else he can sing for it.....all of
it too....or see U in court...

Basically that is what is going to happen.
The problem I've had up to now is finding a replacement plumber who was
willing to sort out someone else's work who could prove to me that he
was capable enough.
Now I've found one I can tell him so (the original plumber).


One reason why I do all me own plumbering these days, as well as most
everything else)
--
Tony Sayer

In message , tony sayer
writes
In article , mark
writes
In message , tony sayer
writes




Well if it were me I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, just tell him
that if he wants his money then he'd better get his botty round here en
tout sweet and get the job done, or else he can sing for it.....all of
it too....or see U in court...

Basically that is what is going to happen.
The problem I've had up to now is finding a replacement plumber who was
willing to sort out someone else's work who could prove to me that he
was capable enough.
Now I've found one I can tell him so (the original plumber).


One reason why I do all me own plumbering these days, as well as most
everything else)

Oh I do my own.
This is a contract for a customer
Oh for the days before corgi.......................................
--
mark

In message , mark
writes
In message , tony sayer
writes
In article , mark
writes
In message , tony sayer
writes




Well if it were me I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, just tell him
that if he wants his money then he'd better get his botty round here en
tout sweet and get the job done, or else he can sing for it.....all of
it too....or see U in court...

Basically that is what is going to happen.
The problem I've had up to now is finding a replacement plumber who was
willing to sort out someone else's work who could prove to me that he
was capable enough.
Now I've found one I can tell him so (the original plumber).


One reason why I do all me own plumbering these days, as well as most
everything else)

Oh I do my own.
This is a contract for a customer
Oh for the days before corgi.......................................


What's CORGI got to do with it, got to do with is
(in the immortal words of Tina Turner)

--
geoff

In message , tony sayer
writes

Basically that is what is going to happen.
The problem I've had up to now is finding a replacement plumber who was
willing to sort out someone else's work who could prove to me that he
was capable enough.
Now I've found one I can tell him so (the original plumber).


One reason why I do all me own plumbering these days, as well as most
everything else)

I never really thought of doing it any other way

--
geoff

In message , raden
writes

What's CORGI got to do with it, got to do with is
(in the immortal words of Tina Turner)


Cant do gas fitting or pressurised systems for reward unless you are.
--
mark

In message , mark
writes
In message , raden
writes

What's CORGI got to do with it, got to do with is
(in the immortal words of Tina Turner)


Cant do gas fitting or pressurised systems for reward unless you are.

And ?

Where's the doing it for reward if it's your own installation ?


--
geoff

In message , raden
writes
In message , mark
writes
In message , raden
writes

What's CORGI got to do with it, got to do with is
(in the immortal words of Tina Turner)


Cant do gas fitting or pressurised systems for reward unless you are.

And ?

Where's the doing it for reward if it's your own installation ?


Its not my own.
Should I apologise for it not being DIY at this stage?
--
mark

In message , mark
writes
In message , raden
writes
In message , mark
writes
In message , raden
writes

What's CORGI got to do with it, got to do with is
(in the immortal words of Tina Turner)


Cant do gas fitting or pressurised systems for reward unless you are.

And ?

Where's the doing it for reward if it's your own installation ?


Its not my own.
Should I apologise for it not being DIY at this stage?

We've moved on from your original post haven't we ...

No, you clearly stated it was a commercial transaction


"The plumber who installed a boiler for one of my customers (finally
after months of waiting) still has not been to finish off the work and
sign the paperwork.

Tomorrow I am going to ring corgi to see if there is anything they can
do."


I very much doubt CORGI will display the slightest interest, unless
there's been a serious (deadly) error
--
geoff

In article , raden
writes
In message , mark
writes
In message , raden
writes
In message , mark
writes
In message , raden
writes

What's CORGI got to do with it, got to do with is
(in the immortal words of Tina Turner)


Cant do gas fitting or pressurised systems for reward unless you are.

And ?

Where's the doing it for reward if it's your own installation ?


Its not my own.
Should I apologise for it not being DIY at this stage?

We've moved on from your original post haven't we ...

No, you clearly stated it was a commercial transaction


"The plumber who installed a boiler for one of my customers (finally
after months of waiting) still has not been to finish off the work and
sign the paperwork.

Tomorrow I am going to ring corgi to see if there is anything they can
do."


I very much doubt CORGI will display the slightest interest, unless
there's been a serious (deadly) error

I wonder how "your" customer is viewing all this;(
--
Tony Sayer

In message , raden
writes
In message , mark
writes

Tomorrow I am going to ring corgi to see if there is anything they can
do."


I very much doubt CORGI will display the slightest interest, unless
there's been a serious (deadly) error

No they won't but that wasn't why I rang them.
I was unsure if there would be a problem with a different plumber
signing it off after most if the installation was carried out by a
different person.



--
mark

In message , tony sayer
writes

I wonder how "your" customer is viewing all this;(

They have been incredibly patient.
I've told them what's going on in any event but it doesn't prevent me
from feeling very embarrassed. The whole job is costing them a 6 figure
sum and the supply of plumbing equipment and its installation is souring
the whole experience for them (and me).

I hope you'll forgive the missing DIY component of this sad saga; its
therapy for me and I thought you might find it interesting to examine
the anatomy of what seems to be a typical complaint from customers from
a different angle.

--
mark

"mark" wrote in message
...
I hope you'll forgive the missing DIY component of this sad saga;

No problem at all. Just makes us all more glad (and smug ?:-) that we can
do these things ourselves with advice from this forum where needed.

In message , mark
writes
In message , tony sayer
writes

I wonder how "your" customer is viewing all this;(

They have been incredibly patient.
I've told them what's going on in any event but it doesn't prevent me
from feeling very embarrassed. The whole job is costing them a 6 figure
sum and the supply of plumbing equipment and its installation is
souring the whole experience for them (and me).

I hope you'll forgive the missing DIY component of this sad saga; its
therapy for me and I thought you might find it interesting to examine
the anatomy of what seems to be a typical complaint from customers from
a different angle.

There are only three things which are unacceptable here - spam, binaries
and commercial advertising.

I might have missed something, but that's the bottom line

--
geoff