"David" wrote in message
...

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
So two Alpha CB 50s would be well within a domestic gas supply and give
you
showers in abundance and NEVER run out of water, and no tanks or
cylinders
and natural,CH zoning of one down and one doing up.

But would still take over 5 minutes to fill a bath.

Christian.



I thought in general a bath was meant to be a relaxing experience, what is
the obsession about having it filling in less than 2 min?

And what happens to everyone when IMM enters a thread, OK, so he's an arse

Another mentalist enter the fray.

but he does actually have some decent info on high flow rate combi's.

Andy and IMM need to take there personal wee chat over to e-mail after
about 5 posts here, when they both then start to repeat themselves ad
nauseum.

Andy is nauseous. You are right.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
So two Alpha CB 50s would be well within a domestic gas supply and give
you
showers in abundance and NEVER run out of water, and no tanks or
cylinders
and natural,CH zoning of one down and one doing up.

But would still take over 5 minutes to fill a bath.

Two of them? Nonsense!!!!

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:00:51 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:39:41 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


If a 1" gas main the meter can handle 100% overload. Easily 300 cu/foot
hr.
There you go. You cam use two 40kW W-B Greenstars giving 32 litres/min
for
2K and natural CH zoning up and down. One does one bathroom one the
other.
Brilliant.

So does Transco approve running their services in this way.?

British gas did.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:26:47 +0100, "David"
wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.net...
So two Alpha CB 50s would be well within a domestic gas supply and
give
you
showers in abundance and NEVER run out of water, and no tanks or
cylinders
and natural,CH zoning of one down and one doing up.

But would still take over 5 minutes to fill a bath.

Christian.



I thought in general a bath was meant to be a relaxing experience, what
is
the obsession about having it filling in less than 2 min?

Agreed, but imagine what happens when 4 people are competing to use
the bathroom facilities and it takes nearly 15 minutes to fill a bath.


And what happens to everyone when IMM enters a thread, OK, so he's an
arse
but he does actually have some decent info on high flow rate combi's.

Check that one carefully.


Andy and IMM need to take there personal wee chat over to e-mail after
about 5 posts here, when they both then start to repeat themselves ad
nauseum.

I am happy to have an email conversation with anybody and frequently
do. However this does require an email address to use.

A did use one but mentalists kept sending stuff there.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:39:06 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:00:51 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:39:41 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


If a 1" gas main the meter can handle 100% overload. Easily 300 cu/foot
hr.
There you go. You cam use two 40kW W-B Greenstars giving 32 litres/min
for
2K and natural CH zoning up and down. One does one bathroom one the
other.
Brilliant.

So does Transco approve running their services in this way.?

British gas did.



Can you produce an official document from them or Transco to the
effect that they approve overloading of their services and measuring
equipment as you describe?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:39:06 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:00:51 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:39:41 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


If a 1" gas main the meter can handle 100% overload. Easily 300
cu/foot
hr.
There you go. You cam use two 40kW W-B Greenstars giving 32 litres/min
for
2K and natural CH zoning up and down. One does one bathroom one the
other.
Brilliant.

So does Transco approve running their services in this way.?

British gas did.

Can you produce an official document from them or Transco to the
effect that they approve overloading of their services and measuring
equipment as you describe?

It wasn't overloading. A 212 cu/ft hr meter was good for x 2 as standard.
The was 100, 200, 250 and 400 cu/ft hr meters. They were all done away with
for one U6 212 cu ft/hr. A 350 cu foot/hr installation would have a 212 U6
fitted with 1" inlet and outlet.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 17:08:04 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

So does Transco approve running their services in this way.?

British gas did.

Can you produce an official document from them or Transco to the
effect that they approve overloading of their services and measuring
equipment as you describe?

It wasn't overloading. A 212 cu/ft hr meter was good for x 2 as standard.
The was 100, 200, 250 and 400 cu/ft hr meters. They were all done away with
for one U6 212 cu ft/hr. A 350 cu foot/hr installation would have a 212 U6
fitted with 1" inlet and outlet.


So answer the question. Where is the official documentation from
Transco or BG approving this as acceptable practice.?
Can you provide the name and phone number of somebody in either
organisation willing to confirm this in writing?
What about the supply pipe from the street main?




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 17:08:04 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

So does Transco approve running their services in this way.?

British gas did.

Can you produce an official document from them or Transco to the
effect that they approve overloading of their services and measuring
equipment as you describe?

It wasn't overloading. A 212 cu/ft hr meter was good for x 2 as
standard.
The was 100, 200, 250 and 400 cu/ft hr meters. They were all done away
with
for one U6 212 cu ft/hr. A 350 cu foot/hr installation would have a 212
U6
fitted with 1" inlet and outlet.


So answer the question. Where is the official documentation from
Transco or BG approving this as acceptable practice.?

Contact them. Transco may have reduced the flow through a U6 being a private
cheapskate company who don't want to upgrade the system. When it was the
gas boards they had a duty to supply a minimum amount of gas. If the lines
were too small they had to increase them.

Can you provide the name and phone number of somebody in either
organisation willing to confirm this in writing?

Do your own resesarch, lazy sod! I have given you the pointer so go ahead.

What about the supply pipe from the street main?

If not good enough they had to upgrade it, a law in 1965, when it was
determined the UK would go ng, set the tone for what they were to guarantee
to supply. With town gas the line pressure was 4" wg, compounded that the
cv went from 500 to 1000 and ng pressure went up to 8" wg, you could half
the pipe sizes. So, as the old mains were geared for a low pressure and cv,
this meant the mains pipes did not have to be upgraded as people went from
gas boilers by the million. Boilers running on town gas tafter conversion
had pipes twice the size. Virtually all boilers had 1" pipes up to the
boiler. This also meant many meters could be done away with and replaced
with a few.

If I need to install two W-B Greenstar 40 kW combi's, that is 80kW and about
300 cu foot per hour, I would ensure the meter inlet and outlet was 1" and
leave it. The meter and gas lines should cope. So, for 2K you can have 32
litres/min instantly and never run out of water. Not bad at all.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:16:26 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

how much did your
boiler and store cost?

Boiler and cylinder together were about £1800.

I can run two showers or a shower and a bath very quickly and not have
to worry about them going cold or taking an eon to fill and run.

Not bad at all!

Added to that there would be the cost of
getting an installer in to connect them together.

No because the cylinder isn't pressurised.

Sounds good. Do you take water directly off the store or via a heat
exchanger?

I would have thought a heat exchanger would need the store temperature
to be higher.

cheers,
Pete.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:11:50 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


So answer the question. Where is the official documentation from
Transco or BG approving this as acceptable practice.?

Contact them. Transco may have reduced the flow through a U6 being a private
cheapskate company who don't want to upgrade the system. When it was the
gas boards they had a duty to supply a minimum amount of gas. If the lines
were too small they had to increase them.

Right, so a pipework size increase is necessary.



Can you provide the name and phone number of somebody in either
organisation willing to confirm this in writing?

Do your own resesarch, lazy sod! I have given you the pointer so go ahead.

Certainly not.

You made the assertion, so you justify it.



What about the supply pipe from the street main?

If not good enough they had to upgrade it, a law in 1965, when it was
determined the UK would go ng, set the tone for what they were to guarantee
to supply. With town gas the line pressure was 4" wg, compounded that the
cv went from 500 to 1000 and ng pressure went up to 8" wg, you could half
the pipe sizes. So, as the old mains were geared for a low pressure and cv,
this meant the mains pipes did not have to be upgraded as people went from
gas boilers by the million. Boilers running on town gas tafter conversion
had pipes twice the size. Virtually all boilers had 1" pipes up to the
boiler. This also meant many meters could be done away with and replaced
with a few.

So answer the question. If I were to contact my gas supplier today
and tell them that I have a standard supply and meter, but I want
80kW, what would they tell me?

Would it be that it's OK to go ahead or that a larger service pipe and
meter is needed? I am sure that I know who would have to pay for
any upgrades.



If I need to install two W-B Greenstar 40 kW combi's, that is 80kW and about
300 cu foot per hour, I would ensure the meter inlet and outlet was 1" and
leave it. The meter and gas lines should cope. So, for 2K you can have 32
litres/min instantly and never run out of water. Not bad at all.

Would this be an approved installation on a standard service and
meter?



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:25:14 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:16:26 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

how much did your
boiler and store cost?

Boiler and cylinder together were about £1800.

I can run two showers or a shower and a bath very quickly and not have
to worry about them going cold or taking an eon to fill and run.

Not bad at all!

Added to that there would be the cost of
getting an installer in to connect them together.

No because the cylinder isn't pressurised.

Sounds good. Do you take water directly off the store or via a heat
exchanger?

The water is used directly.

A heat bank would be an advantage in principle because it could be
maintained at 80 degrees rather than 60. To heat the DHW, a
stainless steel brazed plate heat exchanger would be used to do the
heat transfer to the cold water. These are excellent devices and
able to transfer 100-200kW in a unit not much bigger than a house
brick. I have one in use for running a separate heating circuit to
my workshop.

The problem that I have is that the mains water flow is not that good
- about 15lpm - so the performance would not be good. Ergo, the
better solution is a large roof tank and cylinder.


I would have thought a heat exchanger would need the store temperature
to be higher.

It doesn't need it, but it makes sense because you can store more
energy.





cheers,
Pete.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:11:50 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message

So answer the question. Where is the official documentation from
Transco or BG approving this as acceptable practice.?

Contact them. Transco may have reduced the flow through a U6 being a
private
cheapskate company who don't want to upgrade the system. When it was the
gas boards they had a duty to supply a minimum amount of gas. If the
lines
were too small they had to increase them.

Right, so a pipework size increase is necessary.

Nope.

Can you provide the name and phone number of somebody in either
organisation willing to confirm this in writing?

Do your own resesarch, lazy sod! I have given you the pointer so go
ahead.

Certainly not.

Well why ask?

You made the assertion, so you justify it.

You want the info you get it and I gave the pointer.

What about the supply pipe from the street main?

If not good enough they had to upgrade it, a law in 1965, when it was
determined the UK would go ng, set the tone for what they were to
guarantee
to supply. With town gas the line pressure was 4" wg, compounded that
the
cv went from 500 to 1000 and ng pressure went up to 8" wg, you could half
the pipe sizes. So, as the old mains were geared for a low pressure and
cv,
this meant the mains pipes did not have to be upgraded as people went
from
gas boilers by the million. Boilers running on town gas tafter
conversion
had pipes twice the size. Virtually all boilers had 1" pipes up to the
boiler. This also meant many meters could be done away with and replaced
with a few.

So answer the question. If I were to contact my gas supplier today
and tell them that I have a standard supply and meter, but I want
80kW, what would they tell me?

Ring them and see.

Would it be that it's OK to go ahead or that
a larger service pipe and meter is needed?

I doubt the 1" service pipe would need replacing. They may replace the
meter for some bizarre reason with them being very amateurish.

I am sure that I know who would
have to pay for any upgrades.

If I need to install two W-B Greenstar 40 kW combi's, that is 80kW and
about
300 cu foot per hour, I would ensure the meter inlet and outlet was 1"
and
leave it. The meter and gas lines should cope. So, for 2K you can have
32
litres/min instantly and never run out of water. Not bad at all.

Would this be an approved installation
on a standard service and meter?

It was. Cheapo Transco may have moved the goalposts.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:51:39 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Contact them. Transco may have reduced the flow through a U6 being a
private
cheapskate company who don't want to upgrade the system. When it was the
gas boards they had a duty to supply a minimum amount of gas. If the
lines
were too small they had to increase them.

Right, so a pipework size increase is necessary.

Nope.

Can you provide the name and phone number of somebody in either
organisation willing to confirm this in writing?

Do your own resesarch, lazy sod! I have given you the pointer so go
ahead.

Certainly not.

Well why ask?

You made the assertion, so you justify it.

You want the info you get it and I gave the pointer.

I'm simply asking you to justify an assertion.

If Transco intended the service to deliver 80kW, hey would rate it at
that, not 60kW.



So answer the question. If I were to contact my gas supplier today
and tell them that I have a standard supply and meter, but I want
80kW, what would they tell me?

Ring them and see.

Since you were claiming to know all about this, I was hoping that you
could tell me.



Would it be that it's OK to go ahead or that
a larger service pipe and meter is needed?

I doubt the 1" service pipe would need replacing. They may replace the
meter for some bizarre reason with them being very amateurish.

Oh I see. So now you know more than the supplier about their
service.



l.

Would this be an approved installation
on a standard service and meter?

It was. Cheapo Transco may have moved the goalposts.


Uh Huh, Frankly I think that you are bull****ting.

The unfortunate thing is that this particular piece has the potential
to be dangerous, and if not that, certainly expensive.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:29:23 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:48:10 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Absolute minimum of 15lpm, preferably 20-25lpm per shower.

25 l/min per shower? Absolute irresponsible. The water used and energy
used
to heat that is ridiculous.

No it isn't.

It is! I will not engage with any defence of such irresponsibility. Mr
Blair will be making war on the likes you.


If he can remember what the subject was for more than 10 seconds.

Aha, alles klar

That's why nobody understands DIMMS replies, he keeps answering the
previous question
--
geoff

In message , IMM writes
It is! I will not engage with any defence of such irresponsibility. Mr
Blair will be making war on the likes you.

If he can remember what the subject was for more than 10 seconds.

Well those fascist violent people who want to kill for sport have been
legislated against, and the Tories/royal family are implicated in breaching
the Commons to commit violent acts against democracy. I am appalled and
admire the way the government banned the scum. The level of violence
perpetrated against

Against ?

our good policemen was appalling.


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:29:23 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:48:10 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Absolute minimum of 15lpm, preferably 20-25lpm per shower.

25 l/min per shower? Absolute irresponsible. The water used and
energy
used
to heat that is ridiculous.

No it isn't.

It is! I will not engage with any defence of such irresponsibility. Mr
Blair will be making war on the likes you.


If he can remember what the subject was for more than 10 seconds.

Aha, alles klar

That's why nobody understands DIMMS replies, he keeps answering the
previous question

Maxie, does Dim Lin the far eastern luscious lovely answer back to you?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:51:39 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Contact them. Transco may have reduced the flow through a U6 being a
private
cheapskate company who don't want to upgrade the system. When it was
the
gas boards they had a duty to supply a minimum amount of gas. If the
lines
were too small they had to increase them.

Right, so a pipework size increase is necessary.

Nope.

Can you provide the name and phone number of somebody in either
organisation willing to confirm this in writing?

Do your own resesarch, lazy sod! I have given you the pointer so go
ahead.

Certainly not.

Well why ask?

You made the assertion, so you justify it.

You want the info you get it and I gave the pointer.

I'm simply asking you to justify an assertion.

If Transco intended the service to deliver 80kW, hey would rate it at
that, not 60kW.

BG rated it as 424 cu ft/hr. I don't know what the privatised moneygrabbing
cowboys rate it as these days.

So answer the question. If I were to contact my gas supplier today
and tell them that I have a standard supply and meter, but I want
80kW, what would they tell me?

Ring them and see.

Since you were claiming to know all about this, I was hoping that you
could tell me.

424.

Would it be that it's OK to go ahead or that
a larger service pipe and meter is needed?

I doubt the 1" service pipe would need replacing. They may replace the
meter for some bizarre reason with them being very amateurish.

Oh I see. So now you know more than the supplier about their
service.

Yep, as I used to design them, well er yes.

Would this be an approved installation
on a standard service and meter?

It was. Cheapo Transco may have moved the goalposts.


Uh Huh, Frankly I think that you are bull****ting.

Stop guessing and making things up.

The unfortunate thing is that this particular piece has the potential
to be dangerous, and if not that, certainly expensive.

What can be dangerous?

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:15:46 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:51:39 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Contact them. Transco may have reduced the flow through a U6 being a
private
cheapskate company who don't want to upgrade the system. When it was
the
gas boards they had a duty to supply a minimum amount of gas. If the
lines
were too small they had to increase them.

Right, so a pipework size increase is necessary.

Nope.

Can you provide the name and phone number of somebody in either
organisation willing to confirm this in writing?

Do your own resesarch, lazy sod! I have given you the pointer so go
ahead.

Certainly not.

Well why ask?

You made the assertion, so you justify it.

You want the info you get it and I gave the pointer.

I'm simply asking you to justify an assertion.

If Transco intended the service to deliver 80kW, hey would rate it at
that, not 60kW.

BG rated it as 424 cu ft/hr. I don't know what the privatised moneygrabbing
cowboys rate it as these days.

The commercial arrangements are not in the least bit relevant.

The question was whether the supplier would authorise the usage that
you suggest on a standard domestic supply.

Since you are unable or unwilling to give a simple yes or no, the
conclusion has to be that they do not until you demonstrate otherwise.


So answer the question. If I were to contact my gas supplier today
and tell them that I have a standard supply and meter, but I want
80kW, what would they tell me?

Ring them and see.

Since you were claiming to know all about this, I was hoping that you
could tell me.

424.

Monkies?



Would it be that it's OK to go ahead or that
a larger service pipe and meter is needed?

I doubt the 1" service pipe would need replacing. They may replace the
meter for some bizarre reason with them being very amateurish.

Oh I see. So now you know more than the supplier about their
service.

Yep, as I used to design them, well er yes.


This sounds somewhat implausible since you a) quote deprecated units
and b) seem very unsure whether Transco would underwrite such a
service.



Would this be an approved installation
on a standard service and meter?

It was. Cheapo Transco may have moved the goalposts.


Uh Huh, Frankly I think that you are bull****ting.

Stop guessing and making things up.

That is precisely what you are doing.





The unfortunate thing is that this particular piece has the potential
to be dangerous, and if not that, certainly expensive.

What can be dangerous?

The pressure dropping outside the specified range for the boiler could
be one.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:15:46 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:51:39 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


Contact them. Transco may have reduced the flow through a U6 being
a
private
cheapskate company who don't want to upgrade the system. When it
was
the
gas boards they had a duty to supply a minimum amount of gas. If
the
lines
were too small they had to increase them.

Right, so a pipework size increase is necessary.

Nope.

Can you provide the name and phone number of somebody in either
organisation willing to confirm this in writing?

Do your own resesarch, lazy sod! I have given you the pointer so
go
ahead.

Certainly not.

Well why ask?

You made the assertion, so you justify it.

You want the info you get it and I gave the pointer.

I'm simply asking you to justify an assertion.

If Transco intended the service to deliver 80kW, hey would rate it at
that, not 60kW.

BG rated it as 424 cu ft/hr. I don't know what the privatised
moneygrabbing
cowboys rate it as these days.

The commercial arrangements are not in the least bit relevant.

The question was whether the supplier would authorise the usage that
you suggest on a standard domestic supply.

Yep, and I don't know what the privatised moneygrabbing cowboys rate it as
these days.

Since you are unable or unwilling to give a simple yes or no, the
conclusion has to be that they do not until you demonstrate otherwise.

So answer the question. If I were to contact my gas supplier
today
and tell them that I have a standard supply and meter, but I want
80kW, what would they tell me?

Ring them and see.

Since you were claiming to know all about this, I was hoping that you
could tell me.

424.

Monkies?



Would it be that it's OK to go ahead or that
a larger service pipe and meter is needed?

I doubt the 1" service pipe would need replacing. They may replace
the
meter for some bizarre reason with them being very amateurish.

Oh I see. So now you know more than the supplier about their
service.

Yep, as I used to design them, well er yes.


This sounds somewhat implausible since you a) quote deprecated units
and b) seem very unsure whether Transco would underwrite such a
service.

Transco were not around when I was doing it. I'm sure to take the contract
the scumbags would have negotiated different service levels with the wicked
witch Thatcher.

Would this be an approved installation
on a standard service and meter?

It was. Cheapo Transco may have moved the goalposts.

Uh Huh, Frankly I think that you are bull****ting.

Stop guessing and making things up.

That is precisely what you are doing.

What experience in this field do you have to speak with such authority?
Err, err, none of course. Mentalism has taken hold of you big time today.

The unfortunate thing is that this particular piece has the potential
to be dangerous, and if not that, certainly expensive.

What can be dangerous?

The pressure dropping outside the specified range for the boiler could
be one.

That is not dangerous.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:32:36 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




Transco were not around when I was doing it. I'm sure to take the contract
the scumbags would have negotiated different service levels with the wicked
witch Thatcher.

This of course, has nothing to do with anything and is the usual
attempt at a smokescreen.


Would this be an approved installation
on a standard service and meter?

It was. Cheapo Transco may have moved the goalposts.

Uh Huh, Frankly I think that you are bull****ting.

Stop guessing and making things up.

That is precisely what you are doing.

What experience in this field do you have to speak with such authority?

I'm not attempting to at all. I asked you a simple question asking
you to back up your assertion that 80kW can be derived from a standard
domestic supply and that the supplier is willing to support that.

You have simply wriggled and tried to avoid the issue.



The unfortunate thing is that this particular piece has the potential
to be dangerous, and if not that, certainly expensive.

What can be dangerous?

The pressure dropping outside the specified range for the boiler could
be one.

That is not dangerous.

Are you quite certain that it is not potentially dangerous if the
supply to an appliance drops below the manufacturer's specified value?

This would presumably affect the gas rate, have the risk of the
appliance's regulation dropping out and therefore put the appliance
outside the specified operating range wouldn't it?

I had understood that there is a fairly tight regulatory tolerance on
this.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:32:36 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




Transco were not around when I was doing it. I'm sure to take the
contract
the scumbags would have negotiated different service levels with the
wicked
witch Thatcher.

This of course, has nothing to do with anything and is the usual
attempt at a smokescreen.


Would this be an approved installation
on a standard service and meter?

It was. Cheapo Transco may have moved the goalposts.

Uh Huh, Frankly I think that you are bull****ting.

Stop guessing and making things up.

That is precisely what you are doing.

What experience in this field do you have to speak with such authority?

I'm not attempting to at all. I asked you a simple question asking
you to back up your assertion that 80kW can be derived from a standard
domestic supply and that the supplier is willing to support that.

Previous excellent supplier did, this bunch of private cowboys can't be
relied upon.

You have simply wriggled and tried to avoid the issue.

Mentalism is getting a firm hold.

The unfortunate thing is that this particular piece has the
potential
to be dangerous, and if not that, certainly expensive.

What can be dangerous?

The pressure dropping outside the specified range for the boiler could
be one.

That is not dangerous.

Are you quite certain that it is not potentially dangerous if the
supply to an appliance drops below the manufacturer's specified value?

Yep. the appliance should built-in safety mechanisms. Some appliances will
not operate below certain pressures.

This would presumably affect the gas rate, have the risk of the
appliance's regulation dropping out and therefore put the appliance
outside the specified operating range wouldn't it?

I had understood that there is a fairly tight regulatory tolerance on
this.

see above.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:25:59 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

I asked you a simple question asking
you to back up your assertion that 80kW can be derived from a standard
domestic supply and that the supplier is willing to support that.

Previous excellent supplier did, this bunch of private cowboys can't be
relied upon.

This has no relevance to whether or not the supplier will underwrite
the use of the supply beyond the specified operational value.





Are you quite certain that it is not potentially dangerous if the
supply to an appliance drops below the manufacturer's specified value?

Yep. the appliance should built-in safety mechanisms. Some appliances will
not operate below certain pressures.

This would presumably affect the gas rate, have the risk of the
appliance's regulation dropping out and therefore put the appliance
outside the specified operating range wouldn't it?

I had understood that there is a fairly tight regulatory tolerance on
this.

see above.



So how does this square with the requirement to burn gas at between
90% and 105% of the specified rate?

If the regulator on the appliance falls out of operation because the
pressure has dropped too low, this is not a desirable situation to say
the least.

It also, of course, defeats the object of having two 40kW boilers, if
there ever was one in the first place which is dubious anyway.

So it comes back to the main question. Is a domestic gas supply
going to be able to deliver 80kW (realistically 90kW+ to allow for
other appliances) and still be within the supplier's guaranteed spec.?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

Not really.

The fact that you term it "legislating against people" really does
give the game away as to the motivation.

Indeed it does...

Wandering off topic for a moment, plenty of people correctly point out
that this will not save the life of one fox since they will have to be
population controlled by other means, and a good few also realise that
it will end the lives of a good few thousand horses and dogs (result for
"animal lovers" that one!). However what I have not heard anyone voice
as yet is the number of human fatalities that will result each year.
Something people seem to ignore is that 70% of the time spent by the
various hunts is on countryside management activities which include
things like collecting and making safe the big items of road kill. It
will now presumably fall to councils, with all their legendary
efficiency, to scoop up the dead sheep/deer/other critters before some
other poor sod drives into them!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

So how does this square with the requirement to burn gas at between
90% and 105% of the specified rate?

If the regulator on the appliance falls out of operation because the
pressure has dropped too low, this is not a desirable situation to say
the least.

A 1" main pipe can cope. It used to cope and I assume it stil does as the
pressures are still the same.

It also, of course, defeats the object
of having two 40kW boilers, if
there ever was one in the first place
which is dubious anyway.

Two 40K combi's give continuous hot water and NEVER runs out. A large
family would benefit from this. Also no tanks or cylinders taking up space.
Two Greenstars takes little space on a wall. They could be at the back of
the airing cupboard.

So it comes back to the main question. Is a domestic gas supply
going to be able to deliver 80kW (realistically 90kW+ to allow for
other appliances) and still be within the supplier's guaranteed spec.?

The cowboys Transco will tell you.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:

Not really.

The fact that you term it "legislating
against people" really does
give the game away as to the motivation.

Indeed it does...

Yes it does. People who want to kill for sport. The Romans killed people for
sport, should we go back to that form of sport? There is no case for blood
sports at all. None.

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:49:18 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

So how does this square with the requirement to burn gas at between
90% and 105% of the specified rate?

If the regulator on the appliance falls out of operation because the
pressure has dropped too low, this is not a desirable situation to say
the least.

A 1" main pipe can cope. It used to cope and I assume it stil does as the
pressures are still the same.

That wasn't what I asked for. It was whether the supplier would
underwrite a domestic supply and meter to operate at 80kW.


It also, of course, defeats the object
of having two 40kW boilers, if
there ever was one in the first place
which is dubious anyway.

Two 40K combi's give continuous hot water and NEVER runs out. A large
family would benefit from this. Also no tanks or cylinders taking up space.
Two Greenstars takes little space on a wall. They could be at the back of
the airing cupboard.

This is irrelevant if there would be a cost of several thousand to
upgrade the gas supply.

Plus there is nearly £2500 of boiler to buy.

Two Greenstars in an airing cupboard are going to take up as much
space as a cylinder anyway.


So it comes back to the main question. Is a domestic gas supply
going to be able to deliver 80kW (realistically 90kW+ to allow for
other appliances) and still be within the supplier's guaranteed spec.?

The cowboys Transco will tell you.


OK. So in conclusion, you're bull****ting as I surmised.

That's all that I wanted to know..... thanks.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Two 40K combi's give continuous hot water and NEVER runs out. A large
family would benefit from this. Also no tanks or cylinders taking up
space.
Two Greenstars takes little space on a wall. They could be at the back of
the airing cupboard.

This is irrelevant if there would be a cost of several thousand to
upgrade the gas supply.

Plus there is nearly £2500 of boiler to buy.

Less than that is you look around.

Two Greenstars in an airing cupboard are going to take up as much
space as a cylinder anyway.

They are not. There is also no zone valves for the upstairs and downstairs
zones.

So it comes back to the main question. Is a domestic gas supply
going to be able to deliver 80kW (realistically 90kW+ to allow for
other appliances) and still be within the supplier's guaranteed spec.?

The cowboys Transco will tell you.

OK. So in conclusion, you're bull****ting as I surmised.

It is clear you know nothing of gas installations. that is sad.

That's all that I wanted to know..... thanks.

What did you want to know?

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:04:48 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Two 40K combi's give continuous hot water and NEVER runs out. A large
family would benefit from this. Also no tanks or cylinders taking up
space.
Two Greenstars takes little space on a wall. They could be at the back of
the airing cupboard.

This is irrelevant if there would be a cost of several thousand to
upgrade the gas supply.

Plus there is nearly £2500 of boiler to buy.

Less than that is you look around.

At Discounted Heating they are £1300 each.

EnergySmart has them at £1180 each

Do you have a cheaper source?



Two Greenstars in an airing cupboard are going to take up as much
space as a cylinder anyway.

They are not. There is also no zone valves for the upstairs and downstairs
zones.

Allowing for the sizing and compartment requirements of two Greenstars
mounted side by side will result in a volume of about 670,000 ccs.

Almost as much as a standard cylinder.



So it comes back to the main question. Is a domestic gas supply
going to be able to deliver 80kW (realistically 90kW+ to allow for
other appliances) and still be within the supplier's guaranteed spec.?

The cowboys Transco will tell you.

OK. So in conclusion, you're bull****ting as I surmised.

It is clear you know nothing of gas installations. that is sad.

That's all that I wanted to know..... thanks.

What did you want to know?

I've learned all that I need to know, thanks.....


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:04:48 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Two 40K combi's give continuous hot water and NEVER runs out. A large
family would benefit from this. Also no tanks or cylinders taking up
space.
Two Greenstars takes little space on a wall. They could be at the back
of
the airing cupboard.

This is irrelevant if there would be a cost of several thousand to
upgrade the gas supply.

Plus there is nearly £2500 of boiler to buy.

Less than that is you look around.

At Discounted Heating they are £1300 each.

EnergySmart has them at £1180 each

Do you have a cheaper source?

Trade places can do good deals especially if you buy two.

Two Greenstars in an airing cupboard are going to take up as much
space as a cylinder anyway.

They are not. There is also no zone valves for the upstairs and
downstairs
zones.

Allowing for the sizing and compartment requirements of two Greenstars
mounted side by side will result in a volume of about 670,000 ccs.

Almost as much as a standard cylinder.

Nonsense. One can be high level and one low level on the back wall taking
little space



So it comes back to the main question. Is a domestic gas supply
going to be able to deliver 80kW (realistically 90kW+ to allow for
other appliances) and still be within the supplier's guaranteed
spec.?

The cowboys Transco will tell you.

OK. So in conclusion, you're bull****ting as I surmised.

It is clear you know nothing of gas installations. that is sad.

That's all that I wanted to know..... thanks.

What did you want to know?

I've learned all that I need to know, thanks.....


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:22:30 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




Plus there is nearly £2500 of boiler to buy.

Less than that is you look around.

At Discounted Heating they are £1300 each.

EnergySmart has them at £1180 each

Do you have a cheaper source?

Trade places can do good deals especially if you buy two.

Mmmmm.



Two Greenstars in an airing cupboard are going to take up as much
space as a cylinder anyway.

They are not. There is also no zone valves for the upstairs and
downstairs
zones.

Allowing for the sizing and compartment requirements of two Greenstars
mounted side by side will result in a volume of about 670,000 ccs.

Almost as much as a standard cylinder.

Nonsense. One can be high level and one low level on the back wall taking
little space


The volume remains the same. These devices are not used by Dr. Who.

The depth for installation is 44cm - essentially the same as a
standard cylinder, and the width is more.64cm

The combined height requirement will be 260cm which won't fit between
the floor and ceiling in a standard house unless you violate the
manufacturer's compartment requirements.
I suppose this doesn't matter since you have already violated the gas
supply spec.

In effect you will fill a standard airing cupboard with this set up,
if it fits at all.

Let's be honest. It's another nonsense idea from start to finish,
isn't it?

It's OK to admit it - you're among friends.....



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Two Greenstars in an airing cupboard are going to take up as much
space as a cylinder anyway.

They are not. There is also no zone valves for the upstairs and
downstairs zones.

Perhaps you need to take a course in basic electrics. Zone valves ain't
hard to wire up for one of reasonable skills. But not if you use a hacksaw
to cut the cable.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.