Hi All,

I thought I'd start a new thread as I could do with an answer asap (to
possibly get stuff moving) and I didn't want it to get lost on the end
of a similar thread ..

We had a letter the other day saying our meter was due for a change.

I also read a post here suggesting running some extra tails to feed a
garage supply?

So, some questions come out of this ..

1) We currently have a dual rate meter (E7 or similar) with a clock /
switch feeding a second CU running the storage rads. Will we get a new
dual rate meter controlled by radio and if so how will they deal with
the external switch for the E7?

2) While he is there doing the meter swap, would it be a 'good idea'
to fit some sort of isolator / RCD ready for the pending feed to the
garage. If I had the 'box' fitted nearby with a pair of suitable tails
'a dangling' would he / she be willing / able / allowed to hook it in
for me?

3) If they take away the 'switch' part of the E7 service (can they do
that?) I would be forced to add my own time-switches to each storage
rad. Would they supply them to me foc?

4) The CU for the storage rads is a nice MK Sentry 9 way (7 modules
and 1 x 2 wide incommer) steel unit with only 2 ways in use (was 3).
Maybe I could replace that with a smaller unit and fit the garage
'box' beside it. I could even possibly use the 9 way unit down the
garage as a split CU (Sw lights MCB, Lathe MCB, RCD, std ring Power
MCB etc?) Am I likely to get bus bars / modules to suit this if I cut
it down? Am I right that the SWA should to be 'protected' by an RCD
(and that's where I would use a 100mA unit with a 30mA at the garage
end? Is it likely I could fit the contents of a cheap plastic Clipsil
garage CU into the MK box?)

So I would end up with ..

Main split CU for the house (with existing 30ma RCD / MCB's)
Sub CU (no RCB etc for the storage rads / E7 cct)
Garage 'd/p Switch protection box' (with single 100 mA RCD as switch)


If anyone has any brands of module to hand I have a blank here for the
Sentry and it measures ..

The metal mounting rail is 35mm wide (*high* if you look at it from
the front)

44mm from the front face of the rail to the inside face of the cu
front cover (or module lip)

45mm high module (here it goes through the front panel)

18 mm wide module.

What to do ... ?

All the best .. you humble apprentice ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote
| 1) We currently have a dual rate meter (E7 or similar) with a clock /
| switch feeding a second CU running the storage rads. Will we get a new
| dual rate meter controlled by radio and if so how will they deal with
| the external switch for the E7?

Your existing meter may already be switched by radio for the rate change,
and the timeswitch may only be controlling the off-peak CU, i.e. it's your
responsibility to not run your storage heaters on peak rate electricity. If
the timeswitch is controlling the rate change there will probably be a pair
of lightweight wires back to the meter as well as the heavyweight meter
tails to the CUs and the timeswitch will (should) be security sealed.

If the timeswitch is not controlling the rate change then it will probably
be a simple job to pull the old meter off the base and pop the new one on,
i.e. the meter changer will not be doing any wiring at all.

Owain

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:47:37 +0000, in uk.d-i-y T i m
strung together this:

1) We currently have a dual rate meter (E7 or similar) with a clock /
switch feeding a second CU running the storage rads. Will we get a new
dual rate meter controlled by radio and if so how will they deal with
the external switch for the E7?

Probably remove it and use the one built into the new meter.

2) While he is there doing the meter swap, would it be a 'good idea'
to fit some sort of isolator / RCD ready for the pending feed to the
garage. If I had the 'box' fitted nearby with a pair of suitable tails
'a dangling' would he / she be willing / able / allowed to hook it in
for me?

Most probably, but not a definite goer though. Depends who you get.

3) If they take away the 'switch' part of the E7 service (can they do
that?) I would be forced to add my own time-switches to each storage
rad. Would they supply them to me foc?

Extremely doubtful.

4) The CU for the storage rads is a nice MK Sentry 9 way (7 modules
and 1 x 2 wide incommer) steel unit with only 2 ways in use (was 3).
Maybe I could replace that with a smaller unit and fit the garage
'box' beside it. I could even possibly use the 9 way unit down the
garage as a split CU (Sw lights MCB, Lathe MCB, RCD, std ring Power
MCB etc?) Am I likely to get bus bars / modules to suit this if I cut
it down? Am I right that the SWA should to be 'protected' by an RCD
(and that's where I would use a 100mA unit with a 30mA at the garage
end? Is it likely I could fit the contents of a cheap plastic Clipsil
garage CU into the MK box?)

Possible, depends how much time and patience you've got. I personally
would buy a new unit for the garage if you really want split load down
there for the price difference. Get a standard CU with main switch,
MCB's for 100mA circuits and RCBO's for 30mA circuits.

So I would end up with ..

Sorry, I've forgotten, what are your earthing arrangements? Are you
TT, TN-C-S...?

Main split CU for the house (with existing 30ma RCD / MCB's)
Sub CU (no RCB etc for the storage rads / E7 cct)
Garage 'd/p Switch protection box' (with single 100 mA RCD as switch)

18 mm wide module.

That is 17.5mm actually! Measure more carefully next time ;-)
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:39:55 +0000, Owain wrote:

"T i m" wrote
| 1) We currently have a dual rate meter (E7 or similar) with a clock /
| switch feeding a second CU running the storage rads. Will we get a new
| dual rate meter controlled by radio and if so how will they deal with
| the external switch for the E7?

Your existing meter may already be switched by radio for the rate change,
and the timeswitch may only be controlling the off-peak CU, i.e. it's your
responsibility to not run your storage heaters on peak rate electricity.
If the timeswitch is controlling the rate change there will probably be a
pair of lightweight wires back to the meter as well as the heavyweight
meter tails to the CUs and the timeswitch will (should) be security
sealed.

If the timeswitch is not controlling the rate change then it will probably
be a simple job to pull the old meter off the base and pop the new one on,
i.e. the meter changer will not be doing any wiring at all.

Owain

When my meter was changed last yaer they fitted a digital meter,this meter
has a small wire coming from the timeswitch (this was left alone,it also
switches the storage heaters on/off) which controls which rate is being
charged

Martin Warby

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:39:55 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"T i m" wrote
| 1) We currently have a dual rate meter (E7 or similar) with a clock /
| switch feeding a second CU running the storage rads. Will we get a new
| dual rate meter controlled by radio and if so how will they deal with
| the external switch for the E7?

If
the timeswitch is controlling the rate change there will probably be a pair
of lightweight wires back to the meter as well as the heavyweight meter
tails to the CUs and the timeswitch will (should) be security sealed.

There *are* a pair of thinner (6A type size) wires between the meter
and the Sangamo (as big as the meter) timeswitch (the live looks like
it's fused). That in turn has a pair (or one live in and one out) that
goes to the E7 CU?

So, what are they likely to do meterwise under these circumstances
Owain?

It also happens that the clock is running 4 hours fast!

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:33:11 +0000, Martin Warby
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:39:55 +0000, Owain wrote:

"T i m" wrote
| 1) We currently have a dual rate meter (E7 or similar) with a clock /
| switch feeding a second CU running the storage rads. Will we get a new
| dual rate meter controlled by radio and if so how will they deal with
| the external switch for the E7?

Your existing meter may already be switched by radio for the rate change,
and the timeswitch may only be controlling the off-peak CU, i.e. it's your
responsibility to not run your storage heaters on peak rate electricity.
If the timeswitch is controlling the rate change there will probably be a
pair of lightweight wires back to the meter as well as the heavyweight
meter tails to the CUs and the timeswitch will (should) be security
sealed.

If the timeswitch is not controlling the rate change then it will probably
be a simple job to pull the old meter off the base and pop the new one on,
i.e. the meter changer will not be doing any wiring at all.

Owain

When my meter was changed last yaer they fitted a digital meter,this meter
has a small wire coming from the timeswitch (this was left alone,it also
switches the storage heaters on/off) which controls which rate is being
charged

Hi Martin,

Ok let's hope they leave my timeswitch alone then .. ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:28:40 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:47:37 , in uk.d-i-y T i m
strung together this:

1) We currently have a dual rate meter (E7 or similar) with a clock /
switch feeding a second CU running the storage rads. Will we get a new
dual rate meter controlled by radio and if so how will they deal with
the external switch for the E7?

Probably remove it and use the one built into the new meter.

So the new meter will have 1 input and two outputs?

2) While he is there doing the meter swap, would it be a 'good idea'
to fit some sort of isolator / RCD ready for the pending feed to the
garage. If I had the 'box' fitted nearby with a pair of suitable tails
'a dangling' would he / she be willing / able / allowed to hook it in
for me?

Most probably, but not a definite goer though. Depends who you get.

So plenty of tea and biscuits and the offer of a 'drink' ?

3) If they take away the 'switch' part of the E7 service (can they do
that?) I would be forced to add my own time-switches to each storage
rad. Would they supply them to me foc?

Extremely doubtful.

Ill take that reply as 'they won't take away your timed switching of
your storage rads' ;-)

4) The CU for the storage rads is a nice MK Sentry 9 way (7 modules
and 1 x 2 wide incommer) steel unit with only 2 ways in use (was 3).
Maybe I could replace that with a smaller unit and fit the garage
'box' beside it. I could even possibly use the 9 way unit down the
garage as a split CU (Sw lights MCB, Lathe MCB, RCD, std ring Power
MCB etc?) Am I likely to get bus bars / modules to suit this if I cut
it down? Am I right that the SWA should to be 'protected' by an RCD
(and that's where I would use a 100mA unit with a 30mA at the garage
end? Is it likely I could fit the contents of a cheap plastic Clipsil
garage CU into the MK box?)

Possible, depends how much time and patience you've got.

Well, I've got more of that than I have money at the moment Lurch? ;-(

I personally
would buy a new unit for the garage if you really want split load down
there for the price difference. Get a standard CU with main switch,
MCB's for 100mA circuits and RCBO's for 30mA circuits.

Where has the 100mA RCD come in then? Also RCBO's are still about 25
quid more expensive than an MCB (aren't they?) and about the same
price as the cheap garage CU?

I've got it! Buy a cheap garage RCD CU and strip it. Replace the
contents with a single 100mA RCD and use it as the isolator to the
garage at the house end. Put the parts stripped out of the cheapo
garage CU in the nice metal MK unit down the garage! Electric Lego!
So, who would make a 100mA RCD to go in a Clipsil CU (and where would
I get it from cheap?)

So I would end up with ..

Sorry, I've forgotten, what are your earthing arrangements? Are you
TT, TN-C-S...?

At the moment my (very old) supply provides the earth from the armour
on the SWA from the supplier (plus other bonding to services etc). I
haven't decided what to do down the garage yet but I can decide that
nearer the time can't I ? (crudely, the 'difference' being the
continuity of the house / garage earth + an earthing rod?)

Main split CU for the house (with existing 30ma RCD / MCB's)
Sub CU (no RCB etc for the storage rads / E7 cct)
Garage 'd/p Switch protection box' (with single 100 mA RCD as switch)

18 mm wide module.

That is 17.5mm actually! Measure more carefully next time ;-)

Not bad with a ruler tho eh ;-)

What about the other dimensions Lurch .. are these 10 yr old MK
modules compatible with any new / current makes (assuming you can't
still get MK ones or if you can they aren't much more expensive than
'cheaper' makes?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:08 +0000, in uk.d-i-y T i m
strung together this:

So the new meter will have 1 input and two outputs?


I would have thought so, this is usually the case.

Most probably, but not a definite goer though. Depends who you get.

So plenty of tea and biscuits and the offer of a 'drink' ?

Yep, always a good idea.

3) If they take away the 'switch' part of the E7 service (can they do
that?) I would be forced to add my own time-switches to each storage
rad. Would they supply them to me foc?

Extremely doubtful.

Ill take that reply as 'they won't take away your timed switching of
your storage rads' ;-)

They shouldn't do. But getting anything foc out of the REC was what I
was referring to as being 'extremely doubtful'.

Possible, depends how much time and patience you've got.

Well, I've got more of that than I have money at the moment Lurch? ;-(

That's sorted that out then.

I personally
would buy a new unit for the garage if you really want split load down
there for the price difference. Get a standard CU with main switch,
MCB's for 100mA circuits and RCBO's for 30mA circuits.

Where has the 100mA RCD come in then? Also RCBO's are still about 25
quid more expensive than an MCB (aren't they?) and about the same
price as the cheap garage CU?

You mentioned in your OP. I was assuming it was because you had TT.

I've got it! Buy a cheap garage RCD CU and strip it. Replace the
contents with a single 100mA RCD and use it as the isolator to the
garage at the house end. Put the parts stripped out of the cheapo
garage CU in the nice metal MK unit down the garage! Electric Lego!
So, who would make a 100mA RCD to go in a Clipsil CU (and where would
I get it from cheap?)

Could do that. Any din rail mounted RCD will mount in the Clipsal
enclosure.

Sorry, I've forgotten, what are your earthing arrangements? Are you
TT, TN-C-S...?

At the moment my (very old) supply provides the earth from the armour
on the SWA from the supplier (plus other bonding to services etc). I
haven't decided what to do down the garage yet but I can decide that
nearer the time can't I ? (crudely, the 'difference' being the
continuity of the house / garage earth + an earthing rod?)

It also means the additional cost of a 100mA RCD and earth rod.

18 mm wide module.

That is 17.5mm actually! Measure more carefully next time ;-)

Not bad with a ruler tho eh ;-)

Not bad, but not up to engineering standards!

What about the other dimensions Lurch .. are these 10 yr old MK
modules compatible with any new / current makes (assuming you can't
still get MK ones or if you can they aren't much more expensive than
'cheaper' makes?

Possibly compatible with something, I've got 2 big boxes full of MCB's
etc... so I can usually find something to fit. Failing that, take one
of the old MCB's round a few wholesalers and check what they've got
and what will fit. Most importantly is the 'internal dimensions'. By
that the din rail slot in relation to the front of the MCB and the
alignment of the busbar connection.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:17:21 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:


I personally
would buy a new unit for the garage if you really want split load down
there for the price difference. Get a standard CU with main switch,
MCB's for 100mA circuits and RCBO's for 30mA circuits.

Where has the 100mA RCD come in then? Also RCBO's are still about 25
quid more expensive than an MCB (aren't they?) and about the same
price as the cheap garage CU?

You mentioned in your OP. I was assuming it was because you had TT.

I've got it! Buy a cheap garage RCD CU and strip it. Replace the
contents with a single 100mA RCD and use it as the isolator to the
garage at the house end. Put the parts stripped out of the cheapo
garage CU in the nice metal MK unit down the garage! Electric Lego!
So, who would make a 100mA RCD to go in a Clipsil CU (and where would
I get it from cheap?)

Could do that. Any din rail mounted RCD will mount in the Clipsal
enclosure.

Sorry, I've forgotten, what are your earthing arrangements? Are you
TT, TN-C-S...?

At the moment my (very old) supply provides the earth from the armour
on the SWA from the supplier (plus other bonding to services etc). I
haven't decided what to do down the garage yet but I can decide that
nearer the time can't I ? (crudely, the 'difference' being the
continuity of the house / garage earth + an earthing rod?)

It also means the additional cost of a 100mA RCD and earth rod.

18 mm wide module.

That is 17.5mm actually! Measure more carefully next time ;-)

Not bad with a ruler tho eh ;-)

Not bad, but not up to engineering standards!

I found the dimensions / spec for the current range of MK Sentry units
...

http://tinyurl.com/2csu2

That looks the same size / format for my old blanking module?


Possibly compatible with something, I've got 2 big boxes full of MCB's
etc... so I can usually find something to fit. Failing that, take one
of the old MCB's round a few wholesalers and check what they've got
and what will fit. Most importantly is the 'internal dimensions'. By
that the din rail slot in relation to the front of the MCB and the
alignment of the busbar connection.

So, I think you were suggesting previously I fit one of these ..

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK6180.html

Can't check the busbar though.

61.70 +vat though! (I could fit that later though couldn't I)

Instead of the incommer on my main CU then just stick a garage (RCD)
CU or std switched CU with MCB's (lights) and 30mA RCBo's (power) in
the garage.

Can I confirm .. the SWA to the garage HAS to be protected by a RCD or
not?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:38:47 +0000, in uk.d-i-y T i m
strung together this:

I found the dimensions / spec for the current range of MK Sentry units
..

http://tinyurl.com/2csu2

That looks the same size / format for my old blanking module?


Possibly compatible with something, I've got 2 big boxes full of MCB's
etc... so I can usually find something to fit. Failing that, take one
of the old MCB's round a few wholesalers and check what they've got
and what will fit. Most importantly is the 'internal dimensions'. By
that the din rail slot in relation to the front of the MCB and the
alignment of the busbar connection.

So, I think you were suggesting previously I fit one of these ..

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK6180.html

Only because of the mention of a 100mA RCD in your original post. Now
I know what earth you've got, you don't need it.

Can't check the busbar though.

61.70 +vat though! (I could fit that later though couldn't I)

Instead of the incommer on my main CU then just stick a garage (RCD)
CU or std switched CU with MCB's (lights) and 30mA RCBo's (power) in
the garage.

You've lost me there.

Can I confirm .. the SWA to the garage HAS to be protected by a RCD or
not?

Not.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

Instead of the incommer on my main CU then just stick a garage (RCD)
CU or std switched CU with MCB's (lights) and 30mA RCBo's (power) in
the garage.

You've lost me there.

Sri mate . What I was trying to say is that if I wanted to have the
advantake of an RCD that protected the whole system (even those bits
on the existing house CU that (as I believe was suggested here before)
replace the incommer with a an 80A 100mA RCD. This would then protect
the existing ccts only covered by MCB's like lights etc (noot needed
but can't hurt). I would then take a (say) 32A MCB and use that
through the SWA to feed the garage. The existing 30mA RCD on the house
CU stays put.

Then in the garage I could either ..

1) Fit a std Clipsal RCD CU (but may loose the lights in the garage if
I get a nusiance trip in the garage)

2) Make up a small split CU with std incommer and MCB for garage
lights and 30mA RCD / MCBs OR non split and RCBO's

Can I confirm .. the SWA to the garage HAS to be protected by a RCD or
not?

Not.

Thanks.

Ok another Yes / No for ya.

Do I have to have a double pole isolator at the house end of the
garage SWA or would a house MCB or 30 mA d/p RCD or finally the std
d/p incomer (or 100mA RCD if I get round to it) be sufficient?

What I'm trying to achieve here is the best safest cover without
nusiance trips from the garage taking the house out and at the best
price? (Not that I've even blown a fuse or tripped the house RCD in
the last 10 years on my unofficial semi permenant extension lead to
garage solution ;-) (exept when I cranked the SIP up too high one day
g)

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:16:59 +0000, in uk.d-i-y T i m
strung together this:

Instead of the incommer on my main CU then just stick a garage (RCD)
CU or std switched CU with MCB's (lights) and 30mA RCBo's (power) in
the garage.

You've lost me there.

Sri mate . What I was trying to say is that if I wanted to have the
advantake of an RCD that protected the whole system (even those bits
on the existing house CU that (as I believe was suggested here before)
replace the incommer with a an 80A 100mA RCD. This would then protect
the existing ccts only covered by MCB's like lights etc (noot needed
but can't hurt). I would then take a (say) 32A MCB and use that
through the SWA to feed the garage. The existing 30mA RCD on the house
CU stays put.

Then in the garage I could either ..

1) Fit a std Clipsal RCD CU (but may loose the lights in the garage if
I get a nusiance trip in the garage)

2) Make up a small split CU with std incommer and MCB for garage
lights and 30mA RCD / MCBs OR non split and RCBO's

Yep, with you know. The choice is yours, either way will work.

Can I confirm .. the SWA to the garage HAS to be protected by a RCD or
not?

Not.

Thanks.

Ok another Yes / No for ya.

Do I have to have a double pole isolator at the house end of the
garage SWA or would a house MCB or 30 mA d/p RCD or finally the std
d/p incomer (or 100mA RCD if I get round to it) be sufficient?

It would require its own DP isolator. You could use a DP RCD, or a DP
switch, or a DP switchfuse.. Again, the choice is yours.

What I'm trying to achieve here is the best safest cover without
nusiance trips from the garage taking the house out and at the best
price? (Not that I've even blown a fuse or tripped the house RCD in
the last 10 years on my unofficial semi permenant extension lead to
garage solution ;-) (exept when I cranked the SIP up too high one day
g)

If you do as you mentioned earlier, fitting a new RCD to feed the
garage by the meter, then it's totally seperate from the house and no
chance of nuisance tripping in the house.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:36:02 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:

Ok another Yes / No for ya.

Do I have to have a double pole isolator at the house end of the
garage SWA or would a house MCB or 30 mA d/p RCD or finally the std
d/p incomer (or 100mA RCD if I get round to it) be sufficient?

It would require its own DP isolator. You could use a DP RCD, or a DP
switch, or a DP switchfuse.. Again, the choice is yours.

Ok (and thanks again mate) you don't mention a DP MCB with inrt house
CU in there? Do they make such a thing and would that work if I went
that way (I'm trying to think how it would fit within the CU (having a
neutral to switch as well ?)

What I'm trying to achieve here is the best safest cover without
nusiance trips from the garage taking the house out and at the best
price? (Not that I've even blown a fuse or tripped the house RCD in
the last 10 years on my unofficial semi permenant extension lead to
garage solution ;-) (exept when I cranked the SIP up too high one day
g)

If you do as you mentioned earlier, fitting a new RCD to feed the
garage by the meter, then it's totally seperate from the house and no
chance of nuisance tripping in the house.

So, a DP isolator is a must but an RCD isnt.

What I might do is nick a spare MCB out of the MK Sentry storage rad
CU and see how the terminals / fit is in Dads Clipsal Garage CU
tomorrow.

All the best ..

T i m ;-)

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:08:58 +0000, in uk.d-i-y T i m
strung together this:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:36:02 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:

Ok another Yes / No for ya.

Do I have to have a double pole isolator at the house end of the
garage SWA or would a house MCB or 30 mA d/p RCD or finally the std
d/p incomer (or 100mA RCD if I get round to it) be sufficient?

It would require its own DP isolator. You could use a DP RCD, or a DP
switch, or a DP switchfuse.. Again, the choice is yours.

Ok (and thanks again mate) you don't mention a DP MCB with inrt house
CU in there? Do they make such a thing and would that work if I went
that way (I'm trying to think how it would fit within the CU (having a
neutral to switch as well ?)

You can get DP MCB's in single or double module width but they have to
go into either a SP+N CU or a heavily modified SP CU. Unless you have
the former It's a lot easier to use a separate unit.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:21:15 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:


Ok (and thanks again mate) you don't mention a DP MCB with inrt house
CU in there? Do they make such a thing and would that work if I went
that way (I'm trying to think how it would fit within the CU (having a
neutral to switch as well ?)

You can get DP MCB's in single or double module width but they have to
go into either a SP CU or a heavily modified SP CU. Unless you have
the former It's a lot easier to use a separate unit.

Em, SP CU (Single Pole .. ?)

I've just pulled a 'spare' MCB from the MK to try in the Clipsal unit
at Dads tomorrow. I still might like to go for the swaparound (the MK
Sentry currently on E7 duty and only 2/7ths used, as a split CU down
the garage with the contents of the Clipsal etc).
I'll let you know how it all goes ;-)

All the best ..

T im

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:22:14 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:33:11 +0000, Martin Warby
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:39:55 +0000, Owain wrote:

"T i m" wrote
| 1) We currently have a dual rate meter (E7 or similar) with a clock /
| switch feeding a second CU running the storage rads. Will we get a
| new dual rate meter controlled by radio and if so how will they deal
| with the external switch for the E7?

Your existing meter may already be switched by radio for the rate
change, and the timeswitch may only be controlling the off-peak CU,
i.e. it's your responsibility to not run your storage heaters on peak
rate electricity. If the timeswitch is controlling the rate change
there will probably be a pair of lightweight wires back to the meter as
well as the heavyweight meter tails to the CUs and the timeswitch will
(should) be security sealed.

If the timeswitch is not controlling the rate change then it will
probably be a simple job to pull the old meter off the base and pop the
new one on, i.e. the meter changer will not be doing any wiring at all.

Owain

When my meter was changed last yaer they fitted a digital meter,this
meter has a small wire coming from the timeswitch (this was left alone,it
also switches the storage heaters on/off) which controls which rate is
being charged

Hi Martin,

Ok let's hope they leave my timeswitch alone then .. ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

this was with Hydro Electric,don't know if they do the same in other
regions

Martin Warby

"T i m" wrote
| There *are* a pair of thinner (6A type size) wires between the
| meter and the Sangamo (as big as the meter) timeswitch (the
| live looks like it's fused). That in turn has a pair (or one
| live in and one out) that goes to the E7 CU?

The Sangamo needs a neutral from somewhere for the motor, so either the thin
wires are L&N for the motor, or N for the motor (the motor getting its L
from the meter tail) and a trigger back to the meter to change rate.

Either way it shouldn't make much difference, if the timeswitch handles the
rate change the meter changer should set it to the correct time and reseal
it; if the new meter handles its own rate change it will do so and your
timeswitch will continue to control the E7 CU - in which case you must
ensure it is set to the correct time or the storage heaters will be charging
up on peak rate electricity.

The real point is that the meter changer probably won't need to do much if
anything with rearranging tails etc so is unlikely to be
willing/competent/insured to wire up your new garage supply.

Owain

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:58:51 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"T i m" wrote
| There *are* a pair of thinner (6A type size) wires between the
| meter and the Sangamo (as big as the meter) timeswitch (the
| live looks like it's fused). That in turn has a pair (or one
| live in and one out) that goes to the E7 CU?

The Sangamo needs a neutral from somewhere for the motor, so either the thin
wires are L&N for the motor, or N for the motor (the motor getting its L
from the meter tail) and a trigger back to the meter to change rate.

TYou could be spot on. I've just followed it all about and that's what
it could all do. There are 3 thinish wires going into the timeswitch,
a live via a fuse off the input live to the meter and the neutral
straight to the netural co feed and another wire going into the meter
directly from the timewsitch?

Either way it shouldn't make much difference, if the timeswitch handles the
rate change the meter changer should set it to the correct time and reseal
it;

Ok, so that's the 'easy' one .. ;-)

if the new meter handles its own rate change it will do so and your
timeswitch will continue to control the E7 CU - in which case you must
ensure it is set to the correct time or the storage heaters will be charging
up on peak rate electricity.

Nice? I'd like to think that their kit would at least continue to do
what it's always done? If *their* switch isn't synched to *their* time
and I don't have any way of adjusting either? That means I might as
well remove the E7 CU and get them to reconnect the tails back into
the main supply. Then I can connect the storage rad radials to the
main CU and fit timeswitced outlets at the storage rads? Then I can
swap the tails over to my new garage feed isolator and use the (E7) CU
down the garage ;-)

The real point is that the meter changer probably won't need to do much if
anything with rearranging tails etc so is unlikely to be
willing/competent/insured to wire up your new garage supply.

Oh ;-( The letter did suggest it would 'take around 20 mins' ?

All the best again ..

T i m

Ok let's hope they leave my timeswitch alone then .. ;-)

If its *your* timeswitch they shouldn`t be touching it regardless.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
* old email address "btiruseless" abandoned due to worm-generated spam *
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:49:01 -0000, Colin Wilson
wrote:

Ok let's hope they leave my timeswitch alone then .. ;-)

If its *your* timeswitch they shouldn`t be touching it regardless.

Sri Colin .. it's *their* timeswitch as such (it's supplied by them
and on their board etc) but it was part of the install of E7 10 years
or so ago and my house wiring was based around that?

If a replacement device (they are due to change the meter .. their
request / idea) and I had seen talk here of wireless switched meters
and wondered if I was likely to get said and how that might affect my
setup.

Like when I wanted to add broadband internet access to my existing
cable TV service. They said if I went 'digital' they would install it
free but if I stayed analogue it would cost 25 quid. I asked if I
would still get the 5 terrestrial channels fed through on the digital
service and they said 'no' ? We paid the 25 and stayed analogue (so we
can still watch / record any channel in any room at the same time?)

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:36:25 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:21:15 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:


Ok (and thanks again mate) you don't mention a DP MCB with inrt house
CU in there? Do they make such a thing and would that work if I went
that way (I'm trying to think how it would fit within the CU (having a
neutral to switch as well ?)

You can get DP MCB's in single or double module width but they have to
go into either a SP CU or a heavily modified SP CU. Unless you have
the former It's a lot easier to use a separate unit.

Em, SP CU (Single Pole .. ?)

I've just pulled a 'spare' MCB from the MK to try in the Clipsal unit
at Dads tomorrow. I still might like to go for the swaparound (the MK
Sentry currently on E7 duty and only 2/7ths used, as a split CU down
the garage with the contents of the Clipsal etc).

So, the MK MCB fits on the Clipsal rail and is exactly the same
dimensions re fitting the CU lid, but, the electrical side of it
wouldn't 'easily' mix.

But, if I wanted to convert the 9 module MK Sentry into a split CU for
the garage and used all Clipsal modules in it (to get some a cheap
RCD) I should be able to sort the busbar side of it with a bit of
imagination?

Or not ..

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:15:08 +0000, in uk.d-i-y T i m
strung together this:

So, the MK MCB fits on the Clipsal rail and is exactly the same
dimensions re fitting the CU lid, but, the electrical side of it
wouldn't 'easily' mix.

But, if I wanted to convert the 9 module MK Sentry into a split CU for
the garage and used all Clipsal modules in it (to get some a cheap
RCD) I should be able to sort the busbar side of it with a bit of
imagination?

Or not ..

You could buy a standard length of busbar, (Hager do it individually
for a start, in 18 way lengths, cat. no. VACC10 IIRC), and cut it to
size, as long as all the MCB's line up with the RCD.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

T i m wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:49:01 -0000, Colin Wilson
wrote:

Ok let's hope they leave my timeswitch alone then .. ;-)

If its *your* timeswitch they shouldn`t be touching it regardless.

Sri Colin .. it's *their* timeswitch as such (it's supplied by them
and on their board etc) but it was part of the install of E7 10 years
or so ago and my house wiring was based around that?

If a replacement device (they are due to change the meter .. their
request / idea) and I had seen talk here of wireless switched meters
and wondered if I was likely to get said and how that might affect my
setup.

Like when I wanted to add broadband internet access to my existing
cable TV service. They said if I went 'digital' they would install it
free but if I stayed analogue it would cost 25 quid. I asked if I
would still get the 5 terrestrial channels fed through on the digital
service and they said 'no' ? We paid the 25 and stayed analogue (so we
can still watch / record any channel in any room at the same time?)

They fuled you. With a digital cable box plugged in it won't stop you
picking up the analogue channels that are also present on the cable,
though you might need an analogue cable box also to convert them to UHF
(usually they are VHF on CATV)